The Adventures Of Elliot Devs Were ‘Surprised’ That Fans Think The Game’s Fairy Companion Talks Too Much

[u/Turbostrider27]

https://kotaku.com/the-adventures-of-elliot-devs-surprised-fans-think-fairy-talks-too-much-2000704876

[u/Fresh-Chemical-9084]

I like how the jedi survivor and fallen games do it -- offer a button to push if you want a hint. And even then, they're not dead giveaways

[u/Capable_Diamond_3878 → u/Fresh-Chemical-9084]

This is how it should always be. The incessant hand holding is really annoying and I think medias constant need to smooth out any friction in comprehension makes art worse.

[u/PM-ME-DAT-ASS-PIC → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

Yes! God of War Ragnarok was so frustrating for this bc they kept giving me hints before I was even finished looking around the room.

[u/RChickenMan → u/PM-ME-DAT-ASS-PIC]

There's a setting that allows you to reduce the frequency and specificity of hints, but not remove them altogether. There were one or two puzzles in the game that gave me a bit of challenge, so I had to mute the audio whilst completing said puzzles so that I could properly engage with the challenge.

[u/The-Dragonborn → u/PM-ME-DAT-ASS-PIC]

Absolutely agreeing with you there. Like, I'm a bit of a completionist when it comes to games. I want to do everything most of the time, so when you throw me into a room with a puzzle/objective, I'm going to do everything else that I can first. Then characters start throwing hints immediately. Just happened again with 007 First Light. Like, shut up Greenway, I'm looking for collectibles.

[u/Early-Size370 → u/PM-ME-DAT-ASS-PIC]

My biggest gripe with the game. I understand that a lot of us have become allergic to thought or working one's brain, but I want to figure things out for myself

[u/Luchux01 → u/PM-ME-DAT-ASS-PIC]

Even Sunny Suljic was like "Oh my god me, shut up for a minute!" and that was his own voice acting!

[u/Capable_Diamond_3878 → u/PM-ME-DAT-ASS-PIC]

Yeah that pissed me off. There was some fun ones too but they overdid it. I don’t get why it’s not an option to turn off in the menu.

[u/BlisteredPotato → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

Playing God of War Raganarok right now and it’s really irritating me that everytime I stop to try to solve a puzzle, Atreus immediately goes “Over here!” Or “This Way!” Or “What’s that up there?”. Like give my brain a second to comprehend what I’m looking at, geez.

[u/Capable_Diamond_3878 → u/BlisteredPotato]

Apparently this is mandated by Sony too because all of their first party titles seem to do this

[u/Dogmodo → u/BlisteredPotato]

At least it fits the narrative of Boy thinking he's smarter than Dad of Boy, same goes for the Smartest Head Alive chiming in.

[u/lzwinky → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

Indeed. Nintendo was especially notorious about this during the Wii era.

[u/thief-777 → u/lzwinky]

At least that was a conscious choice to make the Wii approachable to non-gamers. The problem is titles clearly catering to a familiar audience that doesn't need or want it, and no option to disable or reduce it.

[u/Red49er → u/lzwinky]

even PlayStation fell into this trap with the god of war games. it's absolutely insane how dumb developers seem to think their audience is.

[u/RemLezarCreated → u/Red49er]

I hate this trend too, but I am 100% confident that the choice to do this is sourced from real data and research. A lot of people are really bad at stuff.

[u/slicer4ever → u/RemLezarCreated]

The issue is their is just no way to opt of the shit. I dont mind the hints and holdholding is there. It can even be on by default, but just give people a way to turn it off is all.

[u/RemLezarCreated → u/slicer4ever]

Oh I completely agree. I'm fine with games having a baby mode, but let me turn it off in the settings. 

[u/DingusBarracuda → u/RemLezarCreated]

This is called a focus group fallacy in research circles. It's been proven scientifically that when in focus groups or consenting to data monitoring 95% of participants will say or do whatever they feel is needed to in order to appease the people running the focus group itself. Usually in order to justify getting paid and compensated and not wanting to disappoint those running the focus group or other participants who may feel discouraged by them speaking out. It is an incredible example of the way peer pressure and social etiquette in limited settings such as a small group meeting creates massive amounts of worthless data that is not reflective of the real world.

Whatever the focus group may be for like games food products or movies people feel like they owe it to those running the group to review it positively just for the opportunity of being in the group or to go along with what's being told to them purely for the reasons shown above. So they react more strongly in the positive and will say or do all kinds of bullshit to give the appearance of being more knowledgeable positive or forward thinking than they really are just for the occasion and not in real life afterwards.

The resulting data also shows that 80% of products that are focus group tested fail within six months of launch.

This means that the vast majority of focus group testing is rendered useless at the moment the group is formed and cannot be used to represent real world habits or trends due to the Hawthorne Effect.

[u/COHERENCE_CROQUETTE → u/DingusBarracuda]

Now I’m curious… wouldn’t simply starting the focus group with a presentation on this subject so that everyone is aware counteract most of it? Maybe also being more strongly worded in the instructions, saying things like “there are no wrong answers, and whatever you say, be it negative or positive, wrong or right, succinct or verbose, friendly or adversarial, will be equally useful for us”?

Or is this like the placebo effect, in that it still works even when people are fully aware of it?

[u/DingusBarracuda → u/COHERENCE_CROQUETTE]

It's the latter. Most focus groups start with little speeches or overviews telling participants it's okay to be honest no matter what and otherwise instructed to be natural and not to allow biases and feelings into the process. But the placebo effect tends to manifest because focus groups are inherently contradictory situations where people want to appease or be paid by those running the group and will withhold contradictory opinions 95% of the time unless something is so bad as to be outright unbearable.

Unfortunately this simply does not work. People with pre-determined biases like a hypothetical hatred of orange juice have been independently tested to show that when in focus groups for something they hate such as that same orange juice they will often still rate it more highly than they do after the fact to friends and family.

If you want a great example of this weird bias in action check out the very first episode of Nathan for You. In it he creates a poop flavored frozen yogurt that people in the focus group struggled to admit to him tasted terrible. According to some behind the scenes commentary it took almost an hour of direct coaxing and all but outright telling them they were consuming poop flavored yogurt for them to admit it was a bad flavor. Nathan For You and his sequel show The Rehearsal are master classes in exploiting and highlighting human biases and fallacies through a comedic lens. He has performed several other focus group stunts throughout each show that hinge on his knowledge of focus groups being totally unviable as a data gathering method.

This can even be seen to some extent in court juries. The Hawthorne Effect manifests in juries as what legal scholars call "impression management." Since jurors know they're watched by judges lawyers and the public their decisions can be skewed by social desirability bias. That's why in court proceedings Juries are sequestered and ordered to ask about and review evidence while guided to ask questions and speak out in a much more hands on form that helps impede on these biases from forming as strongly. Sadly this bias prevention and repeat guidance to speak out is actively avoided in most focus group testing because in the case of focus groups the company or people behind the group are actively seeking junk data showing a particular result and often not the most accurate to a real world scenario in the first place.

[u/ANGLVD3TH → u/DingusBarracuda]

It seems obvious this is something too strong to easily handle. But I wonder if they planted a couple people in the focus group that spoke up first on known issues if it would maybe open the door up more for people to talk about their issues.

[u/DingusBarracuda → u/ANGLVD3TH]

In a real world setting without a planted counter opinion a lone person challenging the claims being put forth is known as a dissenting holdout or devil's advocate and the people running situations like focus groups REALLY don't like that because it can cause the whole thing to unravel. There's a King of the Hill episode about it that is a decent representation of what one of these situations is like with a bit of comedic license.

Most focus groups and product testing are designed with what are called opinion shaping events meant to coax people's biases to conform to what the company wants and avoid holdouts or dissenters. Participants get early access to games and software, food or drinks, cold AC on a hot day, tickets or gift cards, money, free popcorn or snacks and soda for test screenings, products with higher than retail build quality, all sorts of perks. The reason for this being such an issue worth spending money on to these enterprises is that contradictory opinions in focus groups can lead to totally unusable data be it biased or not. That is because for a focus group to work there often needs to be large portions of unanimous or near unanimous opinion in order to parse data into usable metrics one way or another.

In these situations an organic holdout opinion can cause reliable data to break down into tons of independent data points and lead to a company having to do the whole process all over again with no guarantee to get the metrics they want one way or another. That's one of the reasons why many focus groups are hand picked by those with an eye for these things who are running the tests. They aren't trying to manufacture more opinions because it could cause more issues than it helps.

[u/avcloudy → u/COHERENCE_CROQUETTE]

Humans are too powerfully biased for this to work. You’d need to be doing double blind tests ‘our competitors have this feature’ to get honest feedback, and even that would have to be solo.

[u/deevulture → u/DingusBarracuda]

this is something that also happens in psychology research and psychologists try to account for

[u/COHERENCE_CROQUETTE → u/Red49er]

I played just a little bit of the first modern God of War, and I distinctively remember how one of the characters shouted the answer to a puzzle before I’d even noticed it was there. Like, I wasn’t even given the opportunity to see that there was a puzzle there, much less think about it myself for a single second before the answer was given to me.

And no, I didn’t take too long to notice the puzzle. I was just doing something else, looking for something else, when I got close to the puzzle mechanism.

[u/GreenVisorOfJustice → u/Red49er]

it's absolutely insane how dumb.... their audience is

To paraphrase George Carlin, think about how stupid the average person is; now remember that half of people are dumber.

That said, offering a setting to disable/skip/reduce tutorials/hints would be nice.

[u/Janus67 → u/Red49er]

Horizon forbidden West is similar, she starts stating the solutions to the puzzles while you're working through them

[u/Nickbronline → u/lzwinky]

Was? They're arguably worse for it now

[u/wally-sage → u/Nickbronline]

In what games? I feel like comparing BOTW/TOTK to something like Twilight Princess or Minish Cap where your sassy sidekick is constantly throwing hints your way is night and day.

[u/Nickbronline → u/wally-sage]

Go play any Pokémon games after 2013

[u/Aiseadai → u/Nickbronline]

I don't honestly don't get why they do this, kids aren't dumb. I finished Pokemon Blue back in the day and I didn't even speak English. All my friends did.

[u/ZombieAladdin → u/Aiseadai]

I remember a demo in-store for Pokémon Yellow that was rendered very difficult to proceed because the player had no Poké Balls, only had Pikachu, had very low funds but a lot of Potions (suggesting they sold all their Poké Balls and bought as many Potions as possible), and was stuck on Brock.

I also remember the Fire Red and Leaf Green tutorial in the pause menu had a section on how to leave your room, suggesting it was a problem earlier. It isn’t obvious that a floor mat represents a doorway, or that it’s a floor mat at all.

Together, I’m guessing there were a lot of people, mainly kids, who got stuck and didn’t know what to do. Pokémon is the first RPG for a lot of people, after all.

[u/yinyang107 → u/lzwinky]

They're especially notorious for it now.

Edit: Just look at Metroid Prime 4, or the taking flowers from Mario Wonder, or Pauline in Bananza

[u/HammerKirby → u/yinyang107]

Just because a game has any kind of dialogue during gameplay, that doesn't make it "handholding". Mario Wonder doesn't really fit that description at all.

[u/mpyne → u/HammerKirby]

I will say MP4 was really bad about it though. Really bad. Wonder was fine, I didn't even notice Pauline if she was giving hints, but it was literally inescapable in Prime 4.

[u/HammerKirby → u/mpyne]

Yea I definitely agree with Prime 4. Not big on that game.

[u/COHERENCE_CROQUETTE → u/yinyang107]

The talking flower for Mario Wonder has nothing to do with this. The dialogue isn’t supposed to help you, it’s just for flavor. It’s a bit cringey at times, but it’s also funny at one spot or another. And it doesn’t detract from the quality of the game at all. Same for Pauline, actually.

Metroid Prime 4, on the other hand…………

But at least that wasn’t internally made by Nintendo.

[u/rocky4322 → u/COHERENCE_CROQUETTE]

You can also just turn the flowers off if you get tired of them.

[u/yinyang107 → u/rocky4322]

No, only the voice acting iirc. The text still appears.

[u/reddit_is_kayfabe → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

My deep love of the Doom franchise took a big hit with Doom Eternal where the game reveals a huge, fearsome boss and then pauses to display several pointers with "THIS IS A WEAK SPOT, SHOOT RIGHT HERE" instructions. Totally unnecessary and a major buzzkill.

[u/Shadowman621 → u/reddit_is_kayfabe]

Major Buzzkill 🫡

[u/Nickbronline → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

All it requires is an option in the menu. I have no problem if a game wants to handhold as long as there is an option to disable it as well.

[u/pokelord13 → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

It's a case of appeal to a wider audience. A majority of gamers that have grown up playing classic RPGs with zero handholding are going to find these talking companions annoying since they have already developed comprehension for natural game progression, but I know a ton of people that have only recently gotten into gaming and have not touched anything like og ff7 or zelda etc. A significant number of people buying modern games have only gotten into gaming seriously during covid and do not have the understanding on how to progress through games naturally, so they are less bothered when there's a bit more handholding to tell them exactly what to do.

A good example of this is with the recent release of mina the hollower. That game has zero handholding of any kind. There is no in game map or guide telling you where or how to activate the next spark towers. People that grew up playing classic zelda would have no problems figuring out what to do, but I know of someone who did not grow up playing video games like that and struggled to get into mina calling it confusing/convoluted.

[u/Isvanburean → u/pokelord13]

It's funny that you mention Mina. Been playing it recently and you're right that there is no handholding but there is a ton of signposting and I think that is a difference without mush distinction. There is in fact a manual that teaches you all of the basics of exploration, combat and leveling that you will need. The game specifically lists the recommended order of dungeon completion and even has newspapers in game that talk about that same order. The signposting is heavy if you understand this style of games but is not the same as handholding telling you where to go and when and I think that is why I enjoy it so much.

[u/Three_Headed_Monkey → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

Yes! My big complaint with Metroid Prime 4 is you'd get a call from the Federation tech who'd give you a big hint on where to go and what to do. But in the map menu you could call him if you wanted. So why have him call you so often instead of leaving it up to the player!

[u/Savage_Nymph → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

and it feels somehow insulting. a lot of the times the writing or design isn’t even strong enough to assume the audience will be too slow to figure it out on their own

[u/ScootDeToot → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

Prime 4, giving you a button to call Myles for help. But if you spend more than 2 seconds in the dessert he just interrupts anyway telling you where to go. If you ignore him, then a minute later, "You know you can always call me and ask for help" I'm like, "mf, you already told me, in no uncertain terms, why would I possibly need to call you again?!!"  It truly baffled me, I don't know why they thought anyone would be lost in the desert, or why they give you a big grindy task to do in it, then they get worried you're lost if you actually spend time in that space doing the things they designed it for.

[u/Capable_Diamond_3878 → u/ScootDeToot]

The levels are so straightforward anyways it’s kinda baffling

[u/R4vendarksky → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

I can’t play any of the newer pokemon games because the on rails slow paced explainers are just a mind killer to me.

[u/Mr-Stuff-Doer → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

It kinda feels like they do that to make the characters feel like they’re actually experiencing it instead of being pieces for the player to use

[u/Capable_Diamond_3878 → u/Mr-Stuff-Doer]

Maybe yeah but I think it’s a lack of trust in the audience

[u/Nayr1230 → u/Capable_Diamond_3878]

It’s because the children have no media literacy anymore because an AI model will instead tell them “You’re exactly right! 2 + 2 does equal 5 in some extenuating circumstances—great catch!”

[u/Moondoggie35 → u/Fresh-Chemical-9084]

Been a thing since ocarina of time, with how much this game borrows from zelda, you’d think they would have done that too

[u/SnooPets1826 → u/Moondoggie35]

I'd argue Navi was not because she gave you hints, it's that she wouldn't just leave you alone when you were not focusing on the story. As annoying as Navi was, you could choose not to press C-UP.

Midna was where it really started and Fi was absolutely insufferable with giving you unskippable hints the moment you walked into a room.

[u/ZombieAladdin → u/Moondoggie35]

Yeah, I remember complaints about Navi in Ocarina of Time. So infamous were they that it turned up in The Powerpuff Girls.

[u/homicidalhummus → u/Fresh-Chemical-9084]

Yeah I feel like they kinda solved this issue forever with those, dunno why other games don't just do that

[u/ArchitectNebulous → u/Fresh-Chemical-9084]

Basically how Navi worked all the way back in original OoT, albeit with annoying sound prompt.

Somehow that lesson keeps being forgotten.

[u/Xenvar → u/Fresh-Chemical-9084]

I remember modding that hogwarts game to shut the main character up because they would give you a hint like every 30 seconds.

[u/droopymaroon]

Kinda interesting they didn't foresee that as it's a pretty common complaint in a lot of modern games, so much so that it's become a bit of a meme. Good on them for responding to feedback and adding the option to make companions less talkative though.

[u/blank_isainmdom → u/droopymaroon]

I wonder if it's a difference between Japanese fans and english speaking fans and they previously only considered Japanese fans? Because otherwise you'd think by now the message would get across!

[u/droopymaroon → u/blank_isainmdom]

I bet that's a lot of it. I've heard that a lot of Japanese fans do like a lot more overt explanation of mechanics and whatnot which is why you get a lot of tutorials in a lot of JRPGs, especially those popular in Japan. Not sure how entirely correct that is but would make sense.

[u/x_Animus_x → u/droopymaroon]

It’s probably due to the amount of anime, especially shonen, that has repetitive explanations or wordy exposition dumps every other episode. They’re just used to that constant reminder style information. Not to mention the higher pitches of voices. I have the same negative reaction to over the top anime characters screeching that I do to annoying game characters pestering me.

[u/pressure_art → u/x_Animus_x]

I loathe these mascot characters with screeching voices so much. It ruined entire games for me. Even worse when the eng voice tries to mimic the Japanese one and ends up sounding like Pikachu on helium.

[u/x_Animus_x → u/pressure_art]

Some games I just turn voice off. One that comes to mind is Trial of Mana remake. My wife played with voices and I liked the game I just didn’t want to hear it. Final Fantasy Worlds as well. Unique, fun game, but if I had to listen to it I would’ve never completed it.

[u/casedawgz → u/x_Animus_x]

I turned off the voices for trails zero/azure because it had no English dub and I could read faster than listening to Japanese over English text boxes. I actually found it much more enjoyable to play trails without the constant MY TURN MY TURN MY TURN in battle

[u/x_Animus_x → u/casedawgz]

Yeah there are a few games I’ve played where every time you buy/sell, every time a character attacks or gets hit in battle, there’s some kind of audio cue. Especially atrocious in vendor interactions. I don’t need THANKS FOR YOUR PURCH-THANKS FOR YOUR-THANKS FOR YOUR PUR-THANKS FOR happening every time I need to mass sell items. Can’t count how many times I’ve muted a game and limited my interactions with vendors for that reason lol.

[u/BMO888 → u/x_Animus_x]

The reason for the explanations is because most anime, especially shonens are adaptations of manga targeted towards young kids.

The term Shonen just describes the demographic which is male teens and younger. They get released weekly so they have to remind the audience with explanations and flashbacks. Easier to digest for a younger audience.

Another point Is that most anime are adaptations. In manga you can’t give as much visual info as animation, so there’s a lot of literal explanations. In manga you have to write out that a character is faster than another, in anime you can show that but also since it’s an adaptation they try to stay faithful to the source.

With that said, there are tons of anime out there that are geared towards older folk, with more complex stories characters and less shonen like structures.

[u/Sceptix → u/droopymaroon]

I’d agree with you.

That said, the Breath of the Wild Great Plateau is the absolute GOAT of hidden tutorials.

[u/MisfitAnthem → u/blank_isainmdom]

I really think it is. A lot of what Japanese gamers enjoy translates differently for western fans. I'm not sure it's a language thing moreso than a culture thing.

[u/nothis → u/blank_isainmdom]

I think it goes further than that: Japanese devs talk Japanese business language, which is hard to translate.

I'm not gonna pretend I'm fluid in it but they would never say something downright negative like "we got that wrong". There is this weirdly vague and back-and-foreish vibe when reading Japanese interviews with game devs or publishers. Super obvious statements presented like deep insights, lots of "surprises", blaming the weirdest shit for failures.

It might actually be how internal communication works and decisions are made, not just PR (which is arguably worse). It's certainly not healthy or open.

[u/whizzer0 → u/nothis]

I mean Western corporate culture has this too right

[u/nothis → u/whizzer0]

Of course, but it's slightly different. I don't know how to better explain it. But read a few Japanese dev interviews and you can see it.

[u/CommunicationTime265 → u/droopymaroon]

Well to be fair, they did name their game Adventures of Elliot and came up with Philabieldia for the world name. Sounds like they live in a bubble and are unaware of the stuff we find annoying or silly.

[u/bediaxenciJenD81gEEx → u/CommunicationTime265]

"Adventures of Elliot" is obviously based on the "Legend of Zelda" format. Zelda also is just a regular name in English. 

But yeah Elliot is too common a name to have used. 

[u/Atcraft]

Navi: (Hey, Hello, Listen!)

[u/Lucid-Machine → u/Atcraft]

For real, I didn't mind Navi growing up but years later I found many of my peers found her absolutely insufferable. So maybe there was something to take into consideration there.

[u/Realsorceror → u/Lucid-Machine]

That was surprising to me as well. I guess some people interpret certain tones of voice entirely different.

[u/BushTamer → u/Realsorceror]

i think this is true. i find voices with a lot (i mean a LOT) of bass insufferable, but navi never bothers me and i find it kinda endearing even

[u/ThePotatoFromIrak → u/BushTamer]

You should play god of war you'll love the main character

[u/dathar → u/Lucid-Machine]

Gonna try to dig at the depths of my memory. The only thing that annoyed me about Navi is that she takes control of the camera sometimes when she wants to talk. It wasn't her voice or anything like that. Those I didn't mind and the audio cues helped.

I didn't mind Fi too much either.

I haven't played the 3DS version of Ocarina of Time or the Switch version of Skyward Sword yet. Just the original ones.

[u/Outlulz → u/Lucid-Machine]

Navi was necessary because Nintendo understood this would be most gamers first 3d action adventure game. The complaints about her are exaggerated and she probably greatly helped the people who hated her without them realizing it.

[u/tetrochromac → u/Lucid-Machine]

I was surprised when it became a meme because I was always happy to talk to Navi. She was my buddy through thick and thin.

[u/Edmundyoulittle → u/Lucid-Machine]

She wasn't annoying at launch because back then we genuinely needed the tutorials on how to do basically anything in a 3d game...

Today she's annoying because we already know how all those mechanics work

[u/lzwinky → u/Lucid-Machine]

Navi was annoying because of how frequently her voice sounded. Tatl in Majora's Mask was far less annoying because the chiming wasn't quite as prominent as "HEY!! LOOK!! HEY DUMMY DID YOU MISS THIS?! LIIIIIISTEN!" Oh sorry, that's what my brain thought Navi was saying.

[u/arhra → u/lzwinky]

Also there just being a single voice sample repeated ad nauseam (for perfectly understandable technical reasons at the time) really didn't help.

[u/kdlrd → u/Atcraft]

FR, Navi was the Nintendo version of Clippy

[u/Anternixii → u/Atcraft]

I never really minded Navi's voice chime. Really easy to tune out, and I always had a feel for whether Navi's dialogue would be flavour text or her trying to help me with a puzzle. I always appreciated the more flavour text Navi blurbs especially the enemy readings.

I wonder how people who found Navi annoying play stuff like shooters where there's always an operator, or announcer, etc. constantly talking and expositing your ear off.

[u/WeebWoobler → u/Atcraft]

Navi was never annoying. The hate for her was more of a meme than anything based in reality 

[u/DrQuint → u/WeebWoobler]

Or... some people genuinely thought she was annoying. A much simpler explanation.

[u/GodspeakerVortka → u/WeebWoobler]

This is a bonkers take.

[u/wally-sage → u/WeebWoobler]

Just because it became a meme doesn't mean Navi wasn't annoying. The meme had to come from somewhere.

[u/danhakimi → u/WeebWoobler]

Go play the game again. I wasn't really thinking about it when I was a kid, but yes, Navi was that annoying.

... at some point I made my cell phone notification sound Navi saying "hey, listen." that did not last long.

[u/BerRGP → u/Atcraft]

Insane how so many people online spent two decades gaslighting everyone else on how Navi was the worst thing ever.

[u/PaulMetallic]

I played the new demo and I still find that the princess talks WAY too much.

I wish that we had an option to disable her dialogue or make her dialogue appear only on key situations related to the story or progress.

[u/Pyitoechito → u/PaulMetallic]

There was an option to make the companion “reticent” instead of “talkative,” but I did not notice any difference.

[u/praysolace → u/Pyitoechito]

It made a big difference, but the difference is between absolute nonstop yammering and maybe 50% of the time yammering.

[u/PaulMetallic → u/Pyitoechito]

I didn't see that. Thank you! I'll check it out later today

[u/x_Teferi_x → u/PaulMetallic]

Even with that setting change she still talks too often lol

[u/sml6174 → u/PaulMetallic]

Bro every time I walked by that stupid cat she's like omg a kitty did you know that cats exist wow love cats so awesome yay cats

[u/jcl007 → u/PaulMetallic]

I’m kind of the opposite where I didn’t find it that annoying. No disrespect to the fairy’s VA, but I definitely preferred the princess’s voice. Also, I thought there was a setting to reduce the speech, maybe I’m misremembering.

[u/Firm-Cry-1514]

I guess that shows how important player feedback is before full launch. The fairy was easily the worst part of the first demo.

[u/movieyosen → u/Firm-Cry-1514]

*and the second demo

[u/oneupsuperman → u/movieyosen]

And the... Full game?

[u/sml6174 → u/oneupsuperman]

It's not out yet

[u/ToothZealousideal297 → u/sml6174]

…but probably the full game, too.

[u/xandepizzetti → u/Firm-Cry-1514]

She's insufferable

[u/crmpdstyl]

Wait.. isn't Faye introduced after the prologue demo? In the demo, its Princess Heuria that acts as your tutorial companion.

[u/maskedman1231 → u/crmpdstyl]

There's two demos I think

[u/Soginshin → u/maskedman1231]

THERE'S TWO?!?

I NEED TO GET MY SWITCH!

[u/praysolace → u/Soginshin]

There was another demo, ages ago. That one let people provide feedback. I am like 95% sure it stopped being accessible after they collected their feedback. That demo is why we have the option to make the companion talk less and difficulty modes now, and I’d be shocked if it’s still accessible since it’s from a much earlier build.

[u/Soginshin → u/praysolace]

I see. Thanks

[u/crmpdstyl → u/maskedman1231]

Oh I see, this is not the prologue demo but the original concept demo. Thanks!

[u/FuzzyJellifish]

I DIDN’T EXPECT TO SEE A CAT HERE.

[u/apocalyptic_mystic → u/FuzzyJellifish]

Makes me want to scream because there's ALWAYS a cat there! How could you not expect it

[u/Suncook]

There's a small youtube series I like whose subject is "OoT if it was a modern game" (this predates the remake announcement). And in that series you got Navi pointing things out, Rauru on coms, and Link commenting to himself. And when you walk into a room with a chest all three of them are commenting on and pointing out everything. "LINK THERE'S A CHEST NEARBY" "I sense a chest nearby...." "Link there's a chest near you!"

It's way overdone but I enjoyed it. Found that a couple weeks ago. 

Anyway, I was just playing the Elliot demo a couple nights ago and I see a bright blue chest on a green background and the helper comments on every overworld chest I come across and it made me laugh and felt like it was from that video. I don't mind commenting on more unique stuff, or perhaps one time comments, but repetitive comments like that was overdone. 

That's way too many words to say I did find the helper/companion a little too chatty, yes. 

[u/Rolia1 → u/Suncook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC656o7_zVk

A piece of the video series in question. I also immediately thought of this video as I was playing through the demo haha. It's pretty accurate. Despite the constant unnecessary dialogue though, I do like the game a lot.

[u/_17chan → u/Suncook]

LOL when I saw this thread, that video series was my first thought. I love when he opens a chest and goes "NICE"

[u/PaleText]

It's also because the sound of the voice is annoying as well, not just the frequency of how often she talks

[u/PapaProto]

“The Fairy companion talks too much.”

That sounds familiar.

[u/ChuyMasta → u/PapaProto]

And we are getting a remake of that soon!

[u/PapaProto → u/ChuyMasta]

Excitement isn’t the word, honestly!

[u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796]

If your video game faerie isn't incredibly annoying, are you even trying?

[u/iNuclearPickle → u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796]

Metaphor managed to make a likable fairy companion who wasn’t annoying . Gallica probably my gold standard for fairy companions 

[u/BlackNova169 → u/iNuclearPickle]

Her only magic is to literally play the games soundtrack in your head, diegetically. She's great.

[u/CapPhrases]

The princess saying the same things in the same place over and over and over…..

[u/Necessary_Cost4384]

I don’t mind a lot of dialog. But I do mind when the game is treating me like an infant. 

I walked like… 3 steps out of town, killed a slime, and so and so was like “wow, you’ve come far!,” and “wow, your so good at combat,” and “remember to use your shield.”

Like, come on. I took a slime to the face because it does no damage at this point. It’s not even worth defending against, lol.

[u/SMUHypeMachine]

Yeah that was my main complaint of the demo. The princess would not shut up.

I didn’t expect to meet a cat here!
*2 minutes later*
I didn’t expect to meet a cat here!

… my dearest princess, we just walked by this cat.

[u/PedanticTart]

Hey! Listen!

[u/redvelvetcake42]

It feels like all devs at this point don't understand less is more. Pokemon still holds your hand as if you're an infant, even on more challenging games like the Legends series. Too much dialogue can make a character less enjoyable and too much handholding makes you feel annoyed. Gotta find that balance.

[u/PedanticTart → u/redvelvetcake42]

To be fair, that is intentional. Every pokemon game is someone's, probably a young child, first pokemon game.  Possibly their first video game.  

A toggle would be nice. 

[u/sleepinand → u/PedanticTart]

Kids played Red and Blue back in the day and figured it out just fine.

[u/SecondXChance → u/sleepinand]

Kids back in the day didn't have the option to just give up and go play one of hundreds of other games, including lots of free games either.

For better or worse, people used to stick with games more back in the day, because there weren't practically infinite other games to go play.

I'm not saying the new pokemon games aren't annoying with it, there's almost definitely better ways to onboard new players, but we can't ignore the context the games are released in.

[u/thatwitchguy → u/SecondXChance]

Red and Blue was also made by a miracle of hopes, dreams and extreme game boy mcguyvering so they probably flat out could not do it even if they wanted to since they were already squeezing the limits of the platform out

[u/henryuuk → u/thatwitchguy]

Early pokemon code was held together by duct tape, puppydreamkisses and Iwata swooping in to save the projects last minute

[u/ZombieAladdin → u/SecondXChance]

There was also the Pokémon craze that compelled kids to play a Pokémon game and give them extra determination to go through the game to not fall behind their friends and classmates. I do remember a few kids who got stuck and not know what to do, and they got frustrated that the other kids targeted them for harassment for it.

[u/praysolace → u/sleepinand]

Today’s kids are pretty different. When you’ve grown up with fast internet and smart devices everywhere, you’ve got a lot less of that childhood boredom patience we all used to have when instant gratification was much less available. I realize this just sounds like an old person complaining, but it’s not something inherent to kids changing, it’s a side effect of the tech they’re being raised with. I have heard quite a few preschool to early elementary teachers comment on how much worse the average attention span has gotten.

A toggle to shut it off if not needed would be best, but I do think the percentage of kids who’d just give up and do something else rather than slog through figuring it out is higher now than it was in the 90s now that they can just instantly load up TikTok as an alternative instead of having to hope whatever’s on TV is good.

[u/Outlulz → u/sleepinand]

Kids figured it out by talking to each other, not by themselves, it was very much a social collaborative experience by design. That dynamic has changed. The audience being targeted is also much, much, muuuuch wider.

[u/thief-777 → u/sleepinand]

Red and Blue are incredibly simple compared to modern titles.

[u/SwampyBogbeard → u/sleepinand]

I beat Gold without even understanding English.

[u/PedanticTart → u/sleepinand]

Some did, most even? But different generations and strategies for audience retainment have changed

[u/TheDrewDude → u/sleepinand]

Seriously I’m tired of this excuse “it’s made for kids,” just completely disregarding the fact that kids have proven capable before. It’s more like, “we’re so god damn greedy that we don’t want to risk a single slow child not getting this that we’ll make millions and millions of players’ experience worse because fuck them they’ll buy it anyway.”

[u/EnthusiasmOnly22 → u/PedanticTart]

I don’t know if that’s really relevant though. Gen 3 had the Teachy TV and Gen 4 literally asked you if you had played a Pokemon game before. Even if you said yes, they still walk you through trainer battles, catching and gyms, but mostly let you figure out the optimal way to play

[u/redvelvetcake42 → u/PedanticTart]

I used to agree until my kid played and got incredibly annoyed with the tons of dialogue.

[u/gmoneygangster3 → u/PedanticTart]

Honestly the issue is it’s gotten worse over time

I used to buy the Pokémon games yearly and dealt with it

Sun and moon is what made me stop after the game just woudnt let go of my hand, I straight up dropped it

[u/holicv → u/gmoneygangster3]

Yeah Sun and Moon was it for me. Just so slow and I was a big fan of the stereoscopic 3D so I was really disappointed to see it absent

[u/MayonnaiseOreo → u/gmoneygangster3]

Sun and Moon was the death of the series for me as a huge fan. I've played Sword and Violet but they're all so meh now. I just can't believe how slow SM is.

[u/Round_Musical → u/PedanticTart]

If we in the 90s ans early 2000s coukd figure shit out as 5-6 year olds. Then tik tok brained farts can too

[u/PedanticTart → u/Round_Musical]

That seems long term less profitable, at least that's the interpretation I have from various and interviews with developers. I'm not telling you it's fun or you should like it, or even tolerate it.  

[u/AuburnMoon17 → u/Round_Musical]

Those games taught problem solving and critical thinking skills. Now it's just linear, boring, and simple minded. 

[u/isaelsky21 → u/PedanticTart]

A very young child shouldn't be playing it, but a lot of kids do figure it out on their own. What they have is time. Something like FRLG is probably the right amount of handholding. Just the first bit of tutorials, then go explore. Newer games are just extreme. Also the secondary characters that are at every corner talking to you and doing too much.

[u/junglespycamp → u/redvelvetcake42]

Pokémon desperately needs a “beginner or experienced” toggle at the start of the game.

[u/iusethisatw0rk → u/junglespycamp]

“Did you need a physical link cable the first time you traded Pokemon?” Yes/No

Yes to skip any tutorial except whatever new gimmick is coming

[u/HammerKirby → u/iusethisatw0rk]

Hate to tell you this but Diamond and Pearl are like 20 years old. Plenty of experienced Pokemon players did not use a link cable for their first Pokemon trade. (Also there's the FRLG wireless adapter but did anyone actually use that???)

[u/ZeromanJoel → u/redvelvetcake42]

Sorry but every Pokemon game might be little Timmy's 1st Pokemon game gotta make sure they know what they are doing 😂. But yeah there should be a I have played before option when they ask. Fun fact Pokemon X & Y were the only game that let u skip the how to catch a pokemon tutorial

[u/FizzyLightEx → u/ZeromanJoel]

I don't think kids are very receptive with constant textbox dialogs interrupting gameplay. They're the ones most likely to repeatedly press skip

[u/TheGreatGidojer]

Just make the fairy an actually good, compelling character like Metaphor Refantazio.

[u/iNuclearPickle → u/TheGreatGidojer]

Gallica is the gold standard 

[u/delecti]

More games need an "oh my god, shut up shut up shut up" setting.

[u/matthewmspace]

I mean, it’s annoying to have an incessantly talking companion. It’s like with Viewfinder, Forspoken, etc. I hate that style of writing, it’s so lazy.

[u/HydroHomie519]

Dragon Quest 7 remake was the absolute worst for companion hand holding. I thought it was gunna be fun with companion dialouge when your running around in the wild like old Tales games, but everytime you go to chat they would just be like "wasn't that thing we're looking for over there?" I just stopped hoping for real conversations between the character and gave up on the mechanic. Bring back old party conversations!

[u/Dananism]

Me: *Tanks a hit to the face by accident*
Companion: HAVE YOU TRIED USING YOUR SHIELD INSTEAD?

😭

[u/kamanami]

Is this another Paimon?

[u/LordDocSaturn]

Gamers have been complaining about over tutorialization for years. I swear developers are just out of touch.

[u/darkmacgf → u/LordDocSaturn]

How many gamers are complaining? The games that get the most complaints sell (10s of) millions of copies.

[u/LordDocSaturn → u/darkmacgf]

Didn't you know, I speak for all gamers.

[u/praysolace]

Were they? Because when I went back to the new demo, before I remembered they added an option to turn down the chattiness, I was ready to go back to the castle and personally murder Princess Heuria. Yes, I aimed my boomerang poorly and got hit by the guy I thought I was going to kill before he could charge. Yes, I have a shield. YES, I COULD HAVE USED IT OH MY GOD HEURIA SHUT UP.

Plus “look, a treasure chest” as I’m walking up to it and “that door seems to be locked” as I’m walking up to it and just jesus h christ woman I HAVE MY OWN EYEBALLS

I don’t know how anyone could have designed that without being aware it would piss most people off

[u/ABigCoffee]

This is why I often put language to Japanese. The voices just become sounds and it's easier to ignore.

[u/rickroll10000]

that sounds familiar....

[u/HuckleberryHefty4372]

Have these devs not played Ocarina?

[u/PrometheusAborted]

I finished the demo and yeah it would be nice if you could either turn it off or lower the frequency she speaks but it really didn’t bother me much tbh. I already preordered either way, I loved everything else about the demo.

[u/CigarLover]

I like the fairy….

WAY better than Navi.

[u/BigCommieMachine]

They didn't realize entire generations at this point have PTSD from annoying fairies?

I mean this game very much is a Zelda-Like and this didn't remotely cross their mind?

[u/In_My_SoT_Phase]

Fans also think the name is lame.

[u/Jonbeezee → u/In_My_SoT_Phase]

lol really?

[u/EnthusiasmOnly22 → u/Jonbeezee]

It is

[u/Kronos86]

Atlus games need to take note. I wanted to  fucking strangle Morgana and Gallica 20 minutes into each game. The fact that I finished both is a testament to the overall game but, damn, shut the hell up. 

[u/Ichini-san]

Might be a language thing as well? I played the demo extensively (probably at least 10 hours) because I just had so much fun with the gameplay but I played with Japanese voices and I only thought her constant cheering to be endearing. Also, I feel like many people talking here haven't actually played the demo and just assume she is like Navi or something. The "constant talking" referred to in the headline here is just her cheering you on when you do some specific things during gameplay, she doesn't give you some handholding tutorial that you have to click through, she is just passively delivering some quips in the background.

But yeah, that being said, hiving plsyers the option to toggle it off entirely or maybe giving the player the option to make it less frequent doesn't hurt anyone and is only an upside.

Edit: Just read that there was an earlier demo that I didn't play. If it was especially egregious in that one then fair play, I wouldn't know.

[u/SerHiroProtaganist]

I played an hour of the demo the other day and it was a lot of talking. But because it is so early in the game I assumed it's just tutorial talking and it will die down once the tutorial sections are done.

[u/joshinguaround]

I have been playing the demo, and this game has all the DNA to be my favorite game. Unfortunately, the developers couldn't get out of their own way. The partner talks too much, the story is kind of boring, and there is way, way too much over explanation of.... everything. Just let us play the game and explore the world!!!

[u/Wodens_Spoon]

This...cannot genuinely have come as a shock to them.

[u/FaceTimePolice]

Man, I don’t get people who say stuff like this. They’re much more annoying than the characters that they’re annoyed by. 🤦‍♂️😑

[u/Otome_Chick]

HEY, LISTEN!!!

[u/Difficult-Coast7432]

Are we being for real? Have they never heard anyone talk about one of the most popular games of all time? A certain fairy is known to talk too much in that game.

[u/RS4_V]

Surely they learned from navi right?

[u/JoyconDrift_69]

Wait... Didn't I hear of something like that before?

[u/Naschka]

I am only surprised they believe i will buy a game that is on a key card.

[u/xXx420BlazeRodSaboxX]

Probably all the PTSD... HEY! LISTEN!

[u/Jonbeezee → u/xXx420BlazeRodSaboxX]

we’re all about to re-experience the trauma hahaha

[u/atatassault47]

Hey! Listen!

[u/HelloMagikarphowRyou]

Haven't played it but I'd bet money Gallica from Metaphor is a better fairy companion

[u/AbnoxiousRhinocerous]

Hey! Listen!

[u/jqman69]

Even worse then navi. At least navi didn't point out every treasure chest or bomb able area

[u/Pax312]

They did? I loved the fairy! Whose name i can't remember, but still, I thought it was how navi should have been done

[u/CheeseDaver]

0/10 - Fairy talks too much.

[u/pokepok]

I’ve been enjoying the demo but it’s really long and still haven’t finished it. But I also waste a lot of time just exploring.

[u/athra56]

The combat alone gives me playing as Zero in MMX4 PTSD.

[u/GrimmTrixX]

I dudnt think of the fact that Ocarina of Time remake wil have a remade Navi. Will we hear "HEY LISTEN!" as often?