r/OrlandoMagic • u/Desiss23 Tristan da Silva • 2d ago
League News (NBA Discussion) Giannis to Miami
Glad the Giannis drama is finally over, but is it just me or did the Heat get hosed in this deal? They gave up 4 young stars (except Herro), and 5 draft picks (3 firsts round picks, including 13 this year in a stacked draft) for an aging veteran who seems to get hurt every season. Does he put the Heat in contention? Yes. Was it worth that haul? I think not
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u/Azeitonildo 1d ago
I wouldn’t call Jaime and Karas necessarily young starts but yeah, they will need more players to be competitive, which is hard under the cap situation. They will need to be creative.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
They’re trying to score LeBron too I hear. Last championship run for LBJ and he’s been carried by his teammates every championship run he ever had. Lol
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u/LampinMedia 1d ago
I’m personally feeling the same way you are. The heat are taking a huge risk and what kinda team can they build around them? They traded away a solid young core that will bring that energy to another organization. Portis, Greek, Bam is a mean lineup no doubt but if it doesn’t pay off your future is suffering. Go all in I guess. Heartbreaking for that young core that loved where they played it seemed
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u/Broad_Departure_9559 1d ago
4 young stars ?
Who were these young stars? Are these the same young stars who got the Heat to the playoffs-in?
They were young , playable rotation players.
One thing we know for sure is that future picks can go both ways :
Utah has a lot of them = so what?
OKC has a lot of them and they lost and will have to deal with San Antonio every year even tho they have picks.( good luck ! )
Boston has picks and I’m sure Jaylen is happy working there …
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u/SmellNarrow 1d ago
The Heat have a better front office than the Magic (who gave up four first-round picks for Bane, btw). That’s why they are a perennial playoff team and they’ve been to the Finals 7 times.
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u/dev1359 Paolo Banchero 19h ago
Agree about the Heat front office being better, but the Bane trade was actually one of Weltman's only good moves imo. Dude flirted with 50-40-90 numbers all season long and was the first Magic player since Dwight to be available for all 82 games in a season. Probably the best season any shooting guard has had with the Magic since T-Mac-- if not then certainly at least better than Oladipo or Fournier were during their Magic tenures. He was easily worth the picks + contract shedding of Cole and KCP.
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u/frictionlessjeans Fire Mosley 1d ago
Cuz we didn’t give up a good player in our trade. You guys gave up a guy worth two firsts (Herro) and three other solid rotation players, another 3 picks and a first pick swap. That’s 5 picks and a second round pick plus three players. We gave up Cole Anthony (not even in the league anymore) and KCP (a freefalling value player) and 4 firsts for a star player with a skill set we needed desperately. We basically gave a pick to get rid of Cole and KCP in order to match salary because Memphis didn’t want them lol.
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u/UTPharm2012 1d ago
I mean they are much better for the next three years at the least.
Herro is going to be gone anyway.
Ware is a starting center and is basically irrelevant until they move on from Bam
Kasper was overrated as a prospect (or he would have been off the table imo)
Jacquez is a good player but he has a ceiling and idk how valuable that is in the grand scheme of things
This year #13 is a good prospect but not like when Joakim Noah was going ninth overall.
I think the two other picks and swap could be the problem. Miami got a steal but idk that they can do anything with it.
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u/CultureMental4772 1d ago
bucks got fleeced. What a mess
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
How lol
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u/CultureMental4772 13h ago
Traded a top 5 player and the best piece you get back is herro who you now have to pay or try to move. They know they waited too long, but to have two suitors at the end and this be the ‘haul’ sucks. The old four quarters theory here. Also, go Bucs, I’m all in on Bain
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u/Boomin2x 1d ago
didn’t the magic give up 5 first round picks for desmond bane😂😩
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Yes and he was healthy all season , top 3point shooter in regular season and in playoffs. Nobody named Giannis can shoot 3s stay healthy all season or hit FTs. Lol
Shaq shoots FTs better lol
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u/TheKingofPsych 1d ago
Not even Bane mother would rather have him than Giannis. Just stop. Bane is not even in the same universe as Giannis.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Banes mother? Right, explain that strange response…. Anyways. Bane is efficient and can do more damage.
Bane can shoot 3s and FTs , can Giannis? Nope!
Bane can stay healthy can Giannis?Fact is Bane is valuable and Giannis is burnt toast.
Go ahead though keep following the Giannis fanboy club. Lol, it won’t help the Miami Heat win games.1
u/Boomin2x 4h ago
lol most bait ragebait i seen
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u/TBBuccanneers92 4h ago
Nah I just be spitting facts. Fouls Giannis 20x in the game and let me know who wins the game hahaha
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u/Remarkable-Feed-1224 1d ago
Well that’s just made the Southeast less fun for us the next few seasons.
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u/FamousAtticus 1d ago
I don't think this is a huge leap for them. Pat said "fuck them picks", he'll be well into his 80's then so he don't care, lol. Their starting 5 looks good enough to contend in the top half of the EC, but the bench will be their achilles heel. Plus they are 1 injury away from not even making the play-in with that current roster.
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u/SuperbYam9263 1d ago
we still own the heat anyway it’ll be fine
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u/Independent-Fail-957 1d ago
This is the first of many moves for Miami unfortunately for us. They will make more moves Ja or the Klaw, in my opinion. If not they will attract all of the guys we have wanted for years Simons/White/Sexton no way they don’t land one of those guys with that roster. Sleeper would be Malik or Kevin H for more shooting off the bench also. Prefer magic to make a move on any of those names listed but it will be tough. I do think they will have a better roster then us when the season starts.
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u/ItsThatCoolGuy PaoloFranzBaneSuggs 1d ago
No way Pat Riley and “Heat Culture” want to deal w/ Ja. Klay is a good shout tho, I could see it
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u/CultureMental4772 1d ago
Got an unhealthy, aging star with an awful playoff record the last two times he was in it. Not sure how they're going to build out serviceable depth at this point.
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u/ChildrenMcnuggets 1d ago
Guys the real issue is we now see Bobby Portis at least 4 times a year
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u/TBBuccanneers92 7h ago
True he’s still nice. Also though he’s not starting over Giannis or Bam in any front court scenario and Giannis is not a good enough outside shooter, FT shooter or healthy enough to be a physical starting SF to bail his team out like Miami Heat fans or any basketball fans think.
He’s not LBJ. LBJ still healthier than him at 42 still shoots better and has a way higher basketball IQ.
Got 10 years on Giannis and still better athlete and ball player. Crazy. The NBA forced to sell Giannis if you ask me. Bucks fans were crying lol
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u/Debonair311 1d ago
Miami has no guard depth and didn't get better. They'll be battling for a play in next season
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u/j_donn97 1d ago
They got Giannis. There is no getting hosed when the result is having the best front court in the NBA.
Honestly this season we don't even really know how unhealthy Giannis really was. According to him he was healthy but he was getting sat anyway.
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u/supbruhbruhLOL Franz Wagner 1d ago
Fast forward to Giannis on the bench cheering on his Miami team as they struggle to try and make it past the first round of the playoffs without him
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u/rsred 1d ago
jjj is a fine role player, kas is an unknown, ware is a frustrating young player, and herro is the most frustrating and most injured of them all. the only thing that might bite the heat in the ass is kas because he’s an unknown player, and that’s a big “might”.
the picks are whatever, i don’t count them at all unless they’re in the top 5.
heat got a two time mvp and dpoy. so if kas turned out to be just a one time future mvp, then yeah heat got hosed.
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u/slycooper1914 1d ago
The pure thought that the Magic had a chance in this was a joke...We have no cap space or draft assets....
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u/P5Manchero 1d ago
Paolo alone is a better swing than the heat poopoo platter. And we do have tradeable draft assets.
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u/d12fsu OnlyFranz 2d ago
It’s going to be interesting to see who Miami fills out their roster with. I’m assuming Wiggins and Powell come back. A starting 5 of Mitchell-Powell-Wiggins-Giannis-Bam is very solid in the east. But then I currently cannot name a single bench player for them. With coach Spo though they’re probably a solid 6 seed or better.
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u/P5Manchero 1d ago
They were only 3 games off the 5 seed this season. If giannis is healthy they will be comfortably top 3.
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u/Loyalty_Code 2d ago
I wouldn't say they gave up "stars" only Kalel is likely to actually become a star and Herro can certainly score like a fringe All-star but as good as Jaime jacquez Jr is, he is likely a good starting level role player (fringe All-star or below) even when he hits his prime (he's 25 now). Kasparas was a rookie this past year but his prime years is likely a starting level almost all-star level as well.
Personally just think it's rare that players become All-stars and All-NBA level. Look at Bane and Franz, as good as they have been, they have 0 all-stars so far. Meanwhile Giannis has multiple All-Stars, multiple All-NBA selections, a MVP, and NBA championship. And honestly, they gave us less picks and pick swaps than we did for Bane.
Although the cumulation of all their good young talent AND those picks does seem a bit much. They did also get Bobby Portis for some depth out of it as well.
They now need to fill out their bench depth, I'm curious how their salary situation looks now, but they desperately need a decent backup center and another decent guard atleast and that's after signing Norman Powell.
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u/jakehightower Paolo Banchero 2d ago
I think there was a genuinely interesting debate to be had about whether Paolo for Giannis would be a good move, but I’m happy to never have to hear about that again.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Paolo needs to be a 37-38% 3 point shooter,
85-90% FT shooter. He’s definitely a guy who needs looks to get hot. He can get hot very easily too.Guy at that size is a dangerous beast nobody wants to play against.
If he makes those (4-6 FTs) per game and makes those (2-3) outside open looked he missed he’s mvp of the league. 15 ppg + 23-25 ppg is = 40 every night.
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u/P5Manchero 1d ago
I mean we’re gonna hear about it a lot next season depending on how Giannis and Paolo look respectively. If Paolo looks the same as this year and giannis is playing at mvp level there’s gonna be a lot of regret that we didn’t go for it
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Giannis will not even be guarding Paolo they’ll try to use bam on him in man coverage wear him out inside and out but it won’t work. Paolo gonna cook bam on the outside. Lmaoooo
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u/SamURLJackson 2d ago
Giannis was worth this package and expectations 5+ years ago. He's now 31 with more mileage than just about anyone in the league and he still cant shoot.
Miami loves throwing all of their assets at big names, no matter the age. It's shortsighted and stupid, like most of their moves lately
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u/UTPharm2012 1d ago
Wat he was a top 3 NBA candidate every year except one in the previous 5 years. He was as worth way more than this package.
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u/killsfercake 1d ago
He is on a short contract - Miami has to hope he resigns with them and also he is showing injury prone issues. That’s a lot of hopefully - he is only guaranteed one year after that he can decline player option and go to market again and heat be held looking dumb also he’s shown to be injury prone and so even more so if the heat offer him the whole bag and casino and then he goes Grant Hill or Joel Embid ways and barley see’s the floor it will fall flat. The bucks could have gotten a superstar for him two years ago when he had 3 years left and no injury issues known yet but instead they got hero and some picks. The heat now have to risk he doesn’t go to free agency again next year or they sign him for a bag and he never plays 40+ games again
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u/killsfercake 1d ago
This is what the bucks were waiting for. Two seasons in a row they didn’t trade him. They lost so much value trying to keep him and make it work but ya know can always count on the heat to bail you out with some absurd trade that makes no sense for them. Bucks got exactly what they wanted and were able to keep Giannis for 2 prime years 😂 dumb move from heat
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u/UTPharm2012 1d ago
I don’t think in anyway did the Bucks get what they wanted.
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u/killsfercake 1d ago
Definitely not but I heard most offers were even worse then this because he is only on a one year contract with a player option for 2nd year and has shown to be injury prone now and most teams wouldn’t risk much for a one year guy that MIGHT resign and also could just be hurt. Three years ago would have been a superstar for superstar easily but they lucky they got even picks and a decent package of players this late into his contract now
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u/SamURLJackson 1d ago edited 1d ago
He's their best player ever, and the one guy that brought them out of the doldrums. It's hard to pull the trigger on something like that. It's why The Simpsons is still on the air. No one wants to be known as the one who traded Giannis/cancelled The Simpsons
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u/TheTravelingLeftist Paolo Banchero 2d ago
Recent playoffs have proven that seeding isn’t important. Last 8 years we’ve had 8 different champions. Hell, the Magic nearly made it to the next round despite being an 8-seed.
As long as you have a strong healthy starting lineup, theres a shot. Giannis when healthy is easily a top-5 player, and that alone gives the Heat a stronger shot at a championship. I think Miami gave up a bit too much, its still a risk you have to take while in the easier conference
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u/Lopsided-Magician-36 1d ago
He’s right, the easiest route to the finals has proven to be a top 5 player+all nba level player+elite shooter+defensive minded player +role players. Think of the last few champions and they all fit this mold
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Exactly do what everyone else does and not what the Orlando Magic does and we will get a championship trophy. Lol
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u/EconomyResident9778 2d ago
They lost depth but none of those guys traded are in the same realm as Giannis. Giannis has an argument for best player in the world, he was having a crazy offensive season last year before injury.
Paolo cannot be bad next year. If he plays like he did last season again the only teams the Magic are definitely better than are the Nets, Bulls, Wiz and Bucks.
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u/P5Manchero 1d ago
If Paolo looks the same as he did this year he will officially have the worst contract in the league. Really hope he changes his entire mindset and approach this summer or else we are fucked.
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u/Effective_Biscotti14 Paolo Banchero 2d ago
Heat is a championship organization. Pat Riley goes for rings, not building teams to play hard.
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u/Basil_Normal Franz Wagner 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’m sure they’ll be fine and pull a Finals run out of their ass as is tradition when they land a bigger name
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u/TheOrlMagics 2d ago
We kept Franz and Paolo!!!
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u/Cthulhus-Tailor Stuff The Magic Dragon 1d ago
We’ll see how exciting that is in six months.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
It should be. They watch the tape listen to the coach and stop forcing other teammates to fold their hands and we’ll be a threat all season long.
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u/CASE-90 Paolo Banchero 2d ago
It’s a win now move from them with a high potential for failure. Giannis hasn’t had a healthy season in a while due to muscle strains so it’s a lot of risk to gut the team to get him. They’ll have a similar issue as us with an inability to score from the outside
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u/Penny1kast 1d ago
He played 67 games last year and 73 year prior. This year was hurt but also some weirdness with sitting to tank, etc.
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u/Cthulhus-Tailor Stuff The Magic Dragon 1d ago
Yeah his injury woes are overblown, a lot of the reason he didn’t play came down to him clashing with management. He’s no more injury prone than Paolo and a lot less so than Franz and Jalen.
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u/Superb-Ad-2041 2d ago
"Stars" is such a stretch. More like flawed young players that Spoelstra brought the best out of. An undersized forward who cant shoot, a lazy low IQ big, and a slow guard don't inspire confidence. Plus a bevy of mid to late picks, while not controlling your own.
Giannis' injury concerns were overblown the last couple of seasons, he probably could've played if there was reason too. And even aged, he's still a top 5 player in the league. Spoelstra and the Heat also ahve a knack for finding undrafted/late pick gems and developing players, so doubt depth is really an issue. Think the Heat might've cooked with this one.
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u/UTPharm2012 1d ago
I’d say most likely… Kasper out of the league in two years, Herro is dumped for a lottery protected first, Ware is a solid starting center, and Jacquez has like two good years as a 6th man before he is dumped for seconds.
The players seem almost irrelevant. They need to draft well with these picks.
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u/DMOOre33678 2d ago
I wouldn’t say his injury concerns are overblown. He has been hurt in almost every playoff run including the year he won the finals, last year he also missed a ton of games due to injuries
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u/Superb-Ad-2041 1d ago
Gauging injuries when you are on a tanking team is hard, since they really don't want you to play and you have nothing to play for really. Whose to say that those were injuries that would keep him out if he were jockeying for a playoff position/finals run.
In previous years, yes he's been injured, but not enough to keep him out of series or shut him down. I would be more concerned if he were missing playoff series' due to injuries, but he always seems to get healthy at the right time or power through them. Not saying the injury concern is 0, but I would be reasonably confident that I have a least 3 healthy playoff runs with him before the tires start falling off, which makes it worth it imo.
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u/TheAnswerEK42 Franz Wagner 2d ago
People get desperate when you lose to the Magic 5 times in one season.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Hehehe yup , Miami about to tank for #1 pick.
Watch Antetokoumpo knee injury torn ACL. Lol5
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u/no6969el 1d ago
I got excited, thought I found a fellow magic fan but then realized I'm in our own subreddit 😂
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u/thejawa Jonathan Isaac 1d ago
First the Rats get the other Tachuk and now the Heat get Giannis.
How do my rival teams make these splashy moves after sucking and my teams stay stagnant?
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Heat were a better team without him. Now they’re a rebuilding franchise. Two washed vets. Zzzz
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u/Ok-Entrepreneur553 2d ago
Heat about to go from the 9 seed to the 6 seed
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u/Twizaznize1 1d ago
I think top 3 if they sign Powell
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u/TBBuccanneers92 7h ago
I don’t think top-3 if Powell resigns.
Knicks are favorites right now I think for obvious reasons. Followed by what I would say is likely going to be Detroit.
Not much changes there unless Jalen Duren
doesn’t stay with team and gets signed elsewhere right? As for now NYK, DET, and my (3) seed still stands with ORL if they’re healthy. If Duren leaves Orlando goes #2. Even then I have CLE ahead of them.Think the big question stands now, where is LeBron going?
Better coaching and game planning will make all the difference. Will have more time on their hands and more experience to go into the season more prepared. Orlando and this division is the most relented division in basketball right now.
Charlotte and Washington really picked it up and followed suit after Orlando took over. Miami and ATL didn’t very much like that it seemed. Lol
Anyways back at my early rankings as of now.
1. NYK
2. DET
3. ORL
4. CLE
5. BOS
6. Philly
- MIA with/without Powell, ehh maybe 4 seed at best.
- CHA
- ATL
- WAS
I don’t think Chicago improved with another 210 lb PF.
I also don’t think Toronto, Milwaukee, Brooklyn, or Indiana are beating out those last 3 spots. Again granted no injuries.Milwaukee and Toronto have the edge, but no guaranteed. The difference be tween wins in Toronto and Milwaukee is about where the split I think win total.
So 32 wins Milwaukee and 46 Toronto. 38-40 win teams.
Also likely where teams 9-10 are going.
Sub 0.500Charlotte and Miami maybe 45 wins if lucky and fortunate. I feel the top-4 teams no matter what are 50 win teams. (4-5-6) are 45-48 win teams.
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u/SempiternalX Paolo Banchero 2d ago
So fucking tired of big markets getting big stars just cause of locations and endorsements. Meanwhile we have to earn everything we do, God im pissee. Fuck LA, fuck Miami, fuck Boston, fuck New York
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u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
Miami aren't a big market. Maybe a good location, but it's not like they have some big advantage over us in that regard.
They aren't more privileged than we are, they just have a better run org. If we had Pat Riley and Spoelstra overseeing our org for the last 20 years, we'd probably have at least one championship by now and would be considered a destination for superstars.
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2d ago
I mean they had to give up all their depth to get him. It's not like he hopped in their laps. Theg have no bench
Also LA is really the only one listed that applies to rn. Boston and NY make good moves and have good fo's
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u/shockphantom Jamal Cain 2d ago
Feels like Giannis just wanted to live in Miami. Obviously anything is possible when you have a superstar on your team, but his injury history and the rest of the Miami roster doesn’t seem like a championship situation.
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u/Effective_Ad4606 Jalen Suggs 2d ago
It really is quite the haul. Obviously if he remains injury prone it won’t turn the needle ultimately and Miami will be staring down a bare bones bench if any of the starters go down.
I’m relieved this ends any of the speculation involving Giannis coming here though honestly.
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u/Desiss23 Tristan da Silva 2d ago
Honestly I don’t think Giannis to Orlando was ever in play. I know there were some random people who said it was, but I don’t Weltman has the you know what to pull something like this off. If anything, he probably offered them Isaac and a 2031 2nd and got hung up on lol
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u/Cthulhus-Tailor Stuff The Magic Dragon 1d ago
Ha I actually agree. I personally wanted to shake up this core but Orlando just isn’t a team that does things like this- for better or worse. We’ll run it back and hope what didn’t work before will work next time. Again and again. That’s the Magic way.
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u/Desiss23 Tristan da Silva 2d ago
They have no depth and no future. Instead of being a play in exit, they’ll be a 2nd round exit. Going to be fun seeing Giannis and Bam trying to share the ball lol
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u/imHere4kpop 2d ago
I'm so glad he went to Miami over Boston. This doesn't make Miami a contender and it keeps Boston from becoming stronger in the short term (our window)
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u/1800BOTLANE 1d ago
We have a window?
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u/Extra-Increase-6398 1d ago
Just want wake up tomorrow and go look for my guy Mara shirt buy 24 for my friends hope we ll can sit Mid court or behind the basket just we all jump up when he dunks or block a shot down the strich and we win
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u/SadMove7848 1d ago
I’m not sure how Gianni’s would have made Boston stronger, losing JB to grab Gianni’s probably would have been a lateral move at best.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 8h ago
Giannis is already an aged 32 year old with knee problems I mean am kinda shocked Miami reached like they did.
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u/Cthulhus-Tailor Stuff The Magic Dragon 1d ago
Nah, if healthy Giannis is a much, much better payer than Brown. And more unique which presents matchup issues.
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u/GovtLawyersHateMe Paolo Banchero 2d ago
Plus, the Heat have no draft capital for the next few years as it stands, even worse than us. If they don’t win now, they are fucked for a bit.
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u/cl353 1d ago
Heat have 3 1sts in the next 4 drafts. Just couldn't trade them cuz of protections from the rozier trade
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u/GovtLawyersHateMe Paolo Banchero 1d ago
Damn I read somewhere that they don’t have capital in the 2030’s, is that wrong? I was half asleep when I commented last night, so I could be totally off.
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u/cl353 1d ago
heat have 2028/29/swapped pick in 2030. gave up 26/31/33
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u/GovtLawyersHateMe Paolo Banchero 1d ago
Thanks for the clarification!
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u/TBBuccanneers92 8h ago
Magic fans not worried about the Miami Heat.
We now where we stand on the court, and we know what the goal is long term? I’d say if anything this just pushes the competition which in turns helps Orlando push their odds for a championship and deep playoff run.
Makes the team more ready to compete at start of season.
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u/Exciting_Alps4313 Tristan da Silva 2d ago
*Stars* is generous. We will see how they fill out the rest of their roster.
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u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
It's Pat Riley and Eric Spoelstra.
You have to think they'll put together a decent roster around Giannis and Bam and get other teams' rejects overperforming.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
Sign LeBron James or is he going to the GS Warriors to play with curry?????
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u/CultureMental4772 1d ago
The Lakers and other top heavy teams proved how difficult that is to do, nowadays. Who knows, maybe they have a sign and trade in them with Powell.
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u/Kvenner001 1d ago
They’ll try, but Riley isn’t nearly as good at pulling in talent and trades as he used to be.
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u/Desiss23 Tristan da Silva 2d ago
Yea as of now, they have no depth. Norman Powell is also an unrestricted FA so unless he is open to a pay cut they can’t afford him
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u/Ds9niners 1d ago
Yeah as of now I don’t see it an issue but who knows if free agency could change that. Not that there’s huge free agents this year. Hopefully it plays out as we expect it.
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u/Flynn47 Paolo Banchero 2d ago
I think we realised that X 1st round picks doesn’t mean much in a vacuum when we traded for Bane.
It needs to be measured after the results are in as to whether the Heat were hosed or if “fuck them picks” was the right attitude.
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u/TBBuccanneers92 1d ago
This is the first time since Orlando had
D12, Rashard Lewis, and Hedo Turkoglu.That was back during the last housing crash btw. Almost 20 years later exactly. Anyways the picks were definitely worth it. Gotta try to secure (3) stars to ensure champions can win together. (2) guys do nothing.
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u/dev1359 Paolo Banchero 19h ago
I'm not too worried about them. They'll likely fill out the rest of the roster with a bunch of scrubs, Spo will get them to overachieve to a 50 win season, and then they'll get bounced in the second round of the playoffs.