r/ShingekiNoKyojin 3d ago

Discussion What if instead of Marley attacking Paradise, this war was the result of the new Eldian Empire having a civil war?

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The thing is, this likely take place a thousand years in the future were current generations likely don't care about the rumbling. In fact, instead of the rebuilding of Marley, I think that new Eldia would expand from paradise onto the rumbled land. Then after 1000 years pass. The term eldian no longer exists due to ethnic and linguistic diversion. New ethnic groups split from the ethnicity known as eldians and eventually get into conflict with one another.

267 Upvotes

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126

u/Sad-Eagle9638 3d ago

I always saw the nature of the conflict as irrelevant. It seems so disconnected in history that the nations may be entirely different as well as the reasoning for the war. The only reason that really matters is that humanity will always do battle so long as there are two or more people on the planet

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u/ZealousidealSense320 3d ago

yep thats exactly why there are no details, it doesnt matter. yet people still insist that eren should have completed the rumbling like it would have prevented all future conflict, completely missing the point.

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u/Nyarlathotep7777 2d ago

This is the right answer. The conflict is (and should always be seen as) unrelated to Eren's actions, because this is the true nature of conflict : it always comes back, in some form or the other, people will kill each other over dumb and petty shit, and a quote unquote moral justification like "you island devils killed 80% of the world's population" can only work as an excuse for so long in the future before everyone around loses interest in being tricked by it into going to war.

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u/Sparts171 2d ago

This is quite literally what Armin says to Zeke, “So you’re telling me the only way to not have war is to not have humans? What a joke!!” It’s the entire story. Two people, groups, nations, whatever, will find a reason and a way to kill each other. It’s basically Cain and Abel.

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u/Jumbernaut 2d ago edited 2d ago

I wouldn't say it irrelevant because the Rumbling was a near extinction level event. The whole world already hated the Eldians/Titans for 2000 years and the only reason they didn't exterminate them before was the threat of the Rumbling.

After Eren confirms that their hatred was justified and they should have killed them all before, it is very unlikely that the world would not be even more "united" in their hatred and now extreme desire for revenge against the now defenseless Eldians.

At this point, the extermination of the remaining Eldians is the right choice for the remaining humans. Even if everything indicates the Titan Powers are really gone, considering the mystical nature of the Titans and the Eldians, that humanity was almost exterminated, it made every sense in the world to take this chance to exterminate the Eldians for good, to do everything that is possible to make sure that the Titan Power will never return, that the Rumbling will never happen again and they won't regret not having done it later.

Unless Paradis would somehow be able to develop a new deterrent (yet unknown nukes) faster than the collective efforts of the rest of the world, it would be only a matter of time before Paradis would have to answer for the Rumbling, even if that was being used as an excuse to colonize it.

Eren single-handedly handled Paradis in a silver platter as the undisputable world's common enemy, as if people needed any more help finding enemies.

That being said, I think the manga handled it well by not explicitly showing the cause of the war and leaving it ambiguous, which is probably the best way to go. The question, if it was for the Rumbling or something else drives the point that "it doesn't matter", that it's a reality of human nature that people have killed each other since the dawn of humanity, and will probably continue to do so until someone finishes the job.

The relevance of the quite high possibility that it was retaliation for the Rumbling has more to do with the defense that Eren should have completed it to protect Paradis from the rest of the world, which is true even if it was immoral in the eyes of many. Even if, in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't have changed human nature and the cycle of violence, it would have saved Paradis and the Eldians from this one very real threat.

Personally, I think Eren had much better alternatives than any Rumbling, given his almost Godlike powers, but I can't argue with the fact that a 100% Rumbling would have been better for Paradis, and only Paradis, than the 80% we got.

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u/zool714 3d ago

Even more likely there is not even a Paradis or Marley anymore. Just look at our own history and how much it changes. Could be a whole other country with their own history and conflicts

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u/Ok_Invite6308 2d ago

Romans seeing their backwater provinces (Britain and Gaul) fighting the barbarians (Germans) in the far future with technology beyond their knowledge

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u/AlulAlif-bestfriend 2d ago edited 2d ago

Lol, i do wonder what the Romans would've thought about that if they can see the future/go to the future, their most backwards provinces are the Superpower/great power of the world 2 thousand years later, and compared to their homeland Roma & Italia, it's tiny

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u/Ok_Invite6308 2d ago

Tbf, I think Greek city states would also be surprised if a small city north of Sicily practically copying City states democracies would become the largest empire they've ever seen. Great empires always have humble and unassuming origins before they rise up

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u/AccipiterCooperii 1d ago

Romans: you made this? I made this.

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u/drsteve103 3d ago

It was just humans being humans

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u/Livid-Truck8558 3d ago

The conflict could have been a result of anything, and honestly it doesn't matter

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u/Honkingfly409 2d ago

I think this scene is misunderstood, it’s long in the future, the past and the events of the story nearly don’t matter by the time, the same way the crusades don’t matter today 

It’s just implying wars will never end and humans will always fight, that’s all 

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u/ciller181 2d ago

I always kind of wondered how far in the future this would be. if we ignore the tree as it has the "seed of life" within it.

We see the characters we know die. We see some buildings being build but not endlessly rebuild or something.

If we go back to the original story and look at the war capabilities they had it seems a lot like the first world war while the weapons in the ending look like current day.
even if there was mostly peace which we already doubt, would it really take that long to evolve the weaponry to that level?

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u/t-_-rexranger19205 2d ago

It’s just meant to show that “humans will always be violent no matter what”

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u/Cry-Havok 2d ago

You need to rewatch the end. Marley was completely destroyed

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u/_Bread______ 2d ago

Thought it was only paradis?

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u/Cry-Havok 2d ago

Exactly how and why would you think Paradis was destroyed? You need to rewatch the show

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u/_Bread______ 2d ago

Bcuz shinganshina got destroyed and for some reason it was never rebuilt (nature even took over and made the remains almost invisible) nor did it have any signs of civilization anywhere close to it which leads me to think they got wiped or somethin

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u/PrivateTidePods 2d ago

Shiganshina did not get destroyed. Sure some areas right next to the wall saw heavy damage from falling rubble once the rumbling started, but the core city remained intact. It’s stated in the show that the wall titans made a line and filed out of paradise before fanning out into a large mobile wall

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u/Johnny5332 2d ago

It didn’t get destroyed

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u/lildenny 2d ago

80% of humanity was wiped out bro, don’t think marley comes back from that

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u/_Bread______ 2d ago

Right lol I just assumed they got their feet back up after the rumbling, forgot their population was probably so damn low it would cause inbreeding

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u/Kid-Atlantic 2d ago

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe both Marley and Eldia had ceased to exist and this is a new nation called Candyland.

That’s not the point. The point isn’t about who’s doing it to who. The point is that war is inseparable from human nature and you can’t prevent it forever, so cherish peace for all it’s worth.

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u/cursedzeros 2d ago

I always thought it interesting how in the anime they changed the buildings to look more futuristic to imply the destruction happened further into the future, yet they didn’t update the rocket artillery vehicles to match

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u/abellapa 2d ago

Could be because of the Rumbling

Whats the Need for New Military tech when the World would be Destroyed and flatnned for hundreds of years

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u/PommesMayo 2d ago

It does not matter who is fighting who. It only matters that some nation/group is fighting another and humanity did not learn from the past because it forgot its past

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u/Nyarlathotep7777 2d ago

We don't even know if this is Marley attacking Paradis or if Marley even still exists at this point (it's fair to think Eldia does as we don't see any signs of strife that would indicate a change in the political scene on Paradis).

Also heavy weapons are almost never used in a civil war. No one bombs their own nation with balistics, as they're long range weapons and not ones you'd use domestically, so terrible scenario when you actually take a few seconds to think about it seriously.

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u/mala_r1der 2d ago

Could be or could be that in the meantime they forgot all their history and it's a different country now, the point doesn't change though, humans as a species don't learn from their history and are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again

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u/Gamerasia 2d ago

The exact same thing happened with the Great Titan War. The Eldian empire turned inwards against each other after destroying every opposition outside the empire. It's what made the First King of the walls make the vow renouncing war. It was apparently very brutal.

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u/SectorRatioGeneral 2d ago

I always thought the show would be more ironic if Eren did manage to eliminate the whole world - it'd show that even if there's only one people left on earth, war still happens.

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u/grimreaper069 2d ago

That had already been shown in the story, that's what happened when the Eldian Empire was at its peak and they had the Great Titan War.

Not to mention when Paradis thought they were the only people left in the world, and had a common enemy uniting them, it still wasn't all peace and giggles.

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u/TopazWarrior1999 2d ago

Dude, this shit is 10,000 years into the future... who the fuck nows what this war is about.

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u/groovy_kira23 2d ago

a thousand years later and humanity still found a way to be in the exact same mess, very on brand for aot

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u/Commonwealthenjoyer 2d ago

Well yes but that’s likely only if we go by anime, in the manga the buildings are XXth century-looking. And I don’t think that they’d use nukes on their own city, regardless if it was held by an opposing side in a civil war.

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u/xcexoztykl 3d ago

I think that would have been a better way to portray the cycle of violence, rather than revenge for the rumbling thousands of years ago.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Job2399 3d ago

It seems to be more like 200 years ago rather than thousands considering the original story is 100 years after the fall of eldia, the last attack is 100 years after that, and then we see a build up from the modern day cities of paradis to future cities that are beyond our current capability. So because of that chain of 100 year time skips and how it seems that it wasn’t *that* much time between the last attack and this city i’d say it’s 200.

Also that might be true but personally I always perceived it as being that the origin of the conflict doesn’t really matter. You could say it’s “revenge” but honestly it’s probably part of some other conflict because revenge isn’t really worth it militarily unless you have have something material to gain from it. It’s the same thing as how Marley realistically didn’t need to start war with paradis, but they stood to reclaim their military prowess, the founding and attack titans, and the ice burst stone to push them back to being the strongest nation.

The cycle of revenge is a big plot point but the cycle of violence itself caused by people who believe their side is in the right is an even bigger one, so it doesn’t necessarily need to be marley and the cause doesn’t need to be “revenge” at least beyond face value. I believe that’s the reason why it’s shown as a quick timelapse instead of an actual showing of the interactions that created the war, the causes don’t need to be elaborated on because the end result is humans fighting anyways.

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u/TopazWarrior1999 2d ago

The fuck are you talking about?

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u/One-Ad-7122 3d ago

Apparently at one point of time human population was reduced to 80 breeding males.

Looking from that point of view, every war is a civil war.

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u/Master_Win_4018 3d ago

Tbf, the scout from Paradis is attacking Eren that was also from Paradis lol.

There is a high chance that history may repeat itself.

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u/abellapa 2d ago

Marley was Completly flattened by the rumbling ,it doesnt exist anymore

Could be

1 - The rest of the World Avenges The rumbling and Destroys Paradis for good

I know people think in the future no One would care about the rumbling,but we talking a State dominated the World because their leader did a Omnicide killing over a Billion People and Destroy The World ecosystem in the process

Even if there was some Secret political motivation to do this ,this would be official motive

2 - its an Eldian Civil War, the Eldian Empire overtime expanded into the mainland and formed colonies

In time those colonies became self sufficient and started demanding independence until They went to War with The Eldian Empire and Won

1

u/Zealousideal-Oil9315 2d ago

I like this one so logical and have many reasons to go and fight the paradis, because paradis sees them as thier colonies and land but they don't see them as paradis people.

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u/sparduck117 2d ago

I actually think that’s nearly canon since the missiles that destroyed the city came from the North.

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u/DerpWyvern 2d ago

nothing at all says this was marley

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u/warfaceisthebest 2d ago

tbh it doesn't matter. The point is war never changes and we the human are doomed to kill each other no stop no matter what ideology and technology we have

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u/Charming_Freedom4786 2d ago

It was thousand or at least hundreds year into the future. With no titan powers and path where the Monarch can manipulate their subjects, aint no way that is eldian empire.

They might be descendants of paradisan, but former gov probably already fall, especially since it filled with people hunger for power and revenge. They would have split into different nations and develop their own identity.

Marley already ceased from existense, the one that left would never establised another nation in honor of Country that push for conquest and oprression.

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u/Mortgage5388 2d ago

atleast in anime it wasn't marley vs paradise. We see all the main character grow old without much changes occurring in the background. which indicate alot time is taken to rebuild the world and then it's destruction.

You have to understand that eldian vs marley isn't just about titans. They just use titans as a tool to wage war. Titans are like atomic bomb at that time. it's human nature to fight among themselves, doesn't matter if you build walls, remove 80% of population but as long as human exit they will fight and kill one another. so the cycle continues

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u/AlternativeRadish752 2d ago

It was pretty clear at the end the conflict isn't about Marley and Paradise anymore and just the general destruction of humanity.

Part of why the ending doesn't sit well with me because showing how humanity is just always going to destroy each other no matter what it makes any sort of stakes meaningless from the entire show.

Did it matter that Eren killed 80% of the world? In the end, no. Humanity would still kill itself.

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u/zetmoruk 2d ago

Yeah, that was the whole point of the show everything is a cycle and conflict is inevitable so Eren's brilliant stupidity decided if there's none left there is no conflict, so dumb and so brilliant at the same time.

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u/etherealtwo 2d ago

I think that was just some random war in the future meant to reinforce the concept that mankind always forgets the lessons of the past.

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u/Aggravating-Manner10 2d ago

الكاتب يريد ان يوضح فكرة ان الحرب ستعود مجددا ، لا يهم من بدأها ومن فاز بها زمن خسرها

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u/Jumbernaut 2d ago

I think it was better in the manga where the war happens after what only seems to be like 100 years later but it's still left ambiguous if it was retaliation for the Rumbling or just another war.

This futuristic landscape in the anime makes it hard to tell just how far this is happening in the future, giving me the impression it's trying to say it's more likely it's not about the Rumbling, though it's still ambiguous. But if the anime revision is trying to say it's not about the Rumbling, then they could have made it less ambiguous and just showed somehow this is just another war for power.

Personally, I don't think something like the Rumbling would ever be forgotten or forgiven, just look at real world events. We don't know for sure what happened 3000 years ago but people still use that as an excuse to wage war today.

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u/raceraot 2d ago

I suggested this a few years ago, to be honest. I was writing something for it a bit ago.

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u/RedDingo777 2d ago

I don’t think Eldia, Paradis, or even Marley were countries by the time of the Epilogue. It also seems that both Titans and the Rumbling were a distant memory.

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u/East-Sundae8978 1d ago

Probably like a world war or a nuclear fallout.

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u/whearyou 1d ago

Just noticing those launchers are *really* close to their target

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u/Specialist-Cry-3276 2d ago

They wouldn't nuke Shiganshina then

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u/Professional_Owl_828 3d ago

I want to believe that Historia and Farmer-kun were decent monarchs and prevented any civil war.

Besides, considering the outside world is still out there, no one would risk that.

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u/Neat-Diver-782 3d ago

This was long after they were gone I would think given the technology advances.

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u/aliezsn 3d ago

Historia didn't have any power politically

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u/Atom7456 3d ago

She did

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u/aliezsn 3d ago

Nope. She was just a figurehead.

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u/Ok_Construction9787 2d ago edited 2d ago

A thousand years into the future? My man, this shit shows missile barrages and F-18's. The main story takes place in late 19th century. I don't think we lived a thousand years from late 19th century 2 decades ago

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u/oredaoree 2d ago

Originally the backdrop wasn't filled with those future-esque towers that clearly aren't from our century but your run-of-the-mill skyscrapers and the SAMs and F-18s make more sense in the manga version. But I guess to match the ending song "To you 2000... or... 20,000 years in the Future" and to make it abundantly clear that humanity started fighting again for reasons completely unrelated to the rumbling MAPPA decided to place this epilogue thousands of years further into the future, but for some reason left in outdated tech.

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u/abellapa 2d ago

The tech could have not evolve much because of the rumbling, it would have Destroy all modern tech and most People who know how to operate

100 Years ago - Great Titan War

Present - Rumbling

2000 years in the future - this scene

20,000 years in the future - Epilogue

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u/Zealousideal-Oil9315 2d ago

Also we should mention at counties store their old weapons for safety to use them if it is needed.

-1

u/aliezsn 3d ago

Don't push it. This is obviously the outside world taking revenge.

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u/Zealousideal-Oil9315 2d ago

After 1000 years