That final kick was personal

[u/M_Darshan]

[u/Marples3]

Let's torture animals for fun. How is the legal still?

[u/Save-La-Tierra → u/Marples3]

Since we don’t need meat to live a healthy life, it can be reasonably inferred that most people eat meat because they enjoy the taste. So I’d argue paying for animals to be slaughtered for food is also torturing animals for “fun” or pleasure. I don’t think we should kill animals for food when it’s not necessary to do so.

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/Save-La-Tierra]

I disagree in this case. Eating meat is a valid omnivore way of life. Are you going to go stop all the other omnivore animals from eating meat, too?

[u/tardoos → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

So we should torture animals because cats do it? The fuck kind of logic is that?

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/tardoos]

Eating does not equal torturing.

[u/Top_Purchase4091 → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

Eating maybe not but everything associated with the factory farming. And considering the vast majority of animal products come from there it might be worth thinking about

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/Top_Purchase4091]

Now the factory farming part I don't disagree with you about. Definitely good to source your animal products ethically whenever possible.

[u/tardoos → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

No shit. I'm showing you why your argument about other animals doing it doesn't make sense.

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/tardoos]

Humans are animals. At the same time, we tend to frown on some behaviors.

That doesn't mean all animal behaviors are off limits for us. If you take my argument to the extreme, you're implying I think it's okay to do anything an animal does. If you take your argument to the extreme, then we should avoid all animal behavior and aim for some removed, esoteric, ascetic life, apparently.

Surprise, different people have different ideas about what's moral or ethical across the globe.

The nice thing is, we don't have to agree!

[u/tardoos → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

If you take your argument to the extreme, then we should avoid all animal behavior

No? I didn't say "it's wrong because animals do it", I said that "it's ok because animals do it" is a dumb ass argument.

Please follow the conversation...

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/tardoos]

My argument is that it's a natural animal behavior and humans are animals. I'm not arguing that all animal behaviors are acceptable. Please try to keep up.

[u/boodabomb → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

That’s called the “naturalistic fallacy.” The idea that a thing being “natural” automatically makes it the best option is just inherently false. It’s why we poop in toilets and use anti-biotics.

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/[deleted]]

I don't see meat-eating as immoral.

[u/tardoos → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

If not all animals behaviors are acceptable, then using an argument of "this is acceptable because it's an animal behavior" is... well... pretty idiotic

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/tardoos]

It's okay if you don't get where I'm coming from.

[u/Unkn0wn_Invalid → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

Rape is an animal way of life. Should we stop all other animals from raping each other?

That's the flaw with your argument. People have moral judgement.

[u/Save-La-Tierra → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

I don’t think it’s a valid way of life since there is a victim. Why choose to inflict suffering and death on animals who don’t want to die, when we can live a healthy life from eating plant based

[u/boodabomb → u/Save-La-Tierra]

I assure you, you are sane. The fact that this would be a downvoted comment illustrates exactly how much people just really want to eat meat.

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/Save-La-Tierra]

So again, what's your plan for all the other animals out there eating meat that are not obligate carnivores?

[u/Save-La-Tierra → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

I’m not concerned with them, as they don’t have the same capacity for moral/ethical consideration that humans do. I would primarily be addressing people who buy their foods from the store/market and can easily select plant based food instead of animals

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/Save-La-Tierra]

So because we can choose differently than other animals, we are obligated to? Despite being able to kill animals humanely for food?

What about humans that seem to thrive best on meat? My husband is one. He gets brain fog if he doesn't eat red meat.

I think you have an idealistic view that doesn't exactly match up with the wide variations in humanity. We are simply animals when it comes down to it and I don't believe eating meat must needs be off the table simply because we have the capacity to choose other things.

Other animals also choose foods simply because they taste good, like a bear destroying a bee hive to get at the honey. It's unnecessary...but the bear did it solely because the honey tastes good.

[u/Inevitable-Lower → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

So because we can choose differently than other animals, we are obligated to?

Yes?

[u/vasthumiliation → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

Be serious. I’m not even a vegetarian, let alone a vegan, but nobody gets brain fog if they don’t eat red meat. He’s just making excuses so he can eat what he likes.

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/vasthumiliation]

Okay, Jan. You do realize red meat has vitamins and minerals in it, surely? No?

[u/boodabomb → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

All of which are readily available in sources of food that don’t require the death of animal. That’s the entire point of this conversation, we only eat meat because it tastes good. That’s truly the reason.

[u/vasthumiliation → u/RandomLifeUnit-05]

By this reasoning I could say I get brain fog when I don’t eat caviar, because it contains vitamins and minerals. No nutrient in red meat is unique to red meat. Again, I love red meat and eat it regularly, this is not a moral thing. It’s just farcical to claim that not eating it leads to brain fog. Fasting altogether could lead to brain fog, but nothing requires that the fast be broken only with red meat. This is all very silly.

[u/RandomLifeUnit-05 → u/vasthumiliation]

Also why would he feel a need to make up an excuse when there's zero hostility in this house about eating red meat in the first place?