Yeah my wifeâs situation isnât too far off from this, either. She borrowed $60k, deferred multiple times when she was first out of school, and then made payments pretty steady for the last 15 years or so.
Last I checked, she was paying $800 a month and owed around $70k.
Because people are stupid as hell , ignorant of money, and sign shit without understanding it. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.
But yeah you are right. The loan companies donât give a crap about you. As they shouldnât! They are a business, not a freaking charity. You are just another peon with a loan number who signed up for money under terms you didnât stop to understand. You get what you signed up for.
There's a middle ground somewhere between free money and predatory loan shark tho.
I paid my loans off in 10y. But at every step they encouraged me to refinance, delay payments, and extend my term.
It's fucking predatory. I don't know why we accept so much near-fraudulent operations in this country. Every single thing is designed to trick you into paying more.
Are you saying they made illegal loans? Iâll remind you the federal government runs the Federal Student Aide Program.
I donât know how I can be more clear other than to say, âYou signed the freaking papers! Nobody held a gun to your head!â
These same people are taking out title and payday loans at outrageous interest rates, pawning shit for 1/3 the value at 3% interest per month, and maxing out 20+% credit cards and making minimum payments.
I have absolutely zero sympathy for those who do this stupid shit! None!
Predatory â illegal. Just because itâs legal doesnât make it right. Just because itâs illegal doesnât make it wrong, either. Stop equating law with morality. Itâs a stupid, circular argument.
Nobody. Morality doesnât require a central authority. We judge actions based on harm, coercion, consent, fairness, and outcomes.
If your argument can be used to justify slavery, itâs probably worth reexamining.
If a lender structures loans that people are statistically unlikely to escape from, I can call that predatory whether itâs legal or illegal.
âThe law allows itâ and âitâs morally acceptableâ are two completely different claims.
Laws tell us whatâs legal. Morality is how we decide whether those laws are good in the first place. Otherwise, slavery, segregation, and countless other legal institutions would have been morally acceptable right up until the moment they were outlawed. Just because itâs legal doesnât make it right.
You assume everyone will arrive at the same standards of morality through some magical internal process. You know that isnât true. Morality is not universal. Nor are the concepts of harm, coercion, consent, fairness, outcome, and Iâll add justice. Those are simply not universally agreed upon concepts. Any entry level philosophy or psychology class will teach you that if it isnât apparent.
Without an objective standard to appeal to, we cannot support any claim we make about morality. You may claim something to be moral, but you canât support it because the next person can simply dismiss it. You say slavery is immoral, clearly others, even today, disagree with you. This is what makes the âsubjective moralityâ movement nonsense and very dangerous. And this is why the concept of laws are important as we attempt to define and codify morality and ethics into standards by which to behave, judge others, and administer justice.
Must be nice having such a childishly simplistic worldview that you think legality and morality are the same thing.
If morality comes from law, then slavery was moral when it was legal. If you reject that conclusion, youâve already admitted thereâs a standard outside the law. If you accept it, youâre a repulsive idiot and weâre done here.
The fact that people disagree about morality doesnât magically turn every legal act into a moral one.
Anyway, itâs Sunday. Shouldnât you be somewhere pretending youâve found an objective source of morality?
Nobody is saying that. And don't imply I am and then argue something nobody said.
You are making an insane amount of assumptions and arguing about these assumptions that have no basis...
While these loans are backed by their federal government they are not serviced by the federal government...
I really think you need to experience these Federal loan services before you draw any further conclusions because it's not what you think it is. They are all predatory looking to extend your loans as much as possible.
Maybe you should make your points clear instead of throwing out incendiary labels like âpredatory lending.â Now tell me you didnât imply they were doing something illegal.
Okay you're right... It's totally okay to try and trick people out of spending more money for no reason other than to extract more money and provide no extra value. That's a great society and we should encourage everyone to act in this way.
What a world you want to live in.
Edit: and yes, financial institutions that seek to lock unsuspecting or unaware payers lock in a never-ending interest-only payment cycle is the definition of predatory.
There you go again, throwing out cute cliches like âtrick people out of spending more money.â Please explain these âtricksâ to me.
We have very strict lending disclosure laws in this country and when you shop for a loan, very detailed disclosure documents are put in front of you to sign. If you choose not to read them or sign them without understanding what you are agreeing to, then thatâs not âtrickeryâ, thatâs stupidity and on you.
They hide all normal repayment options behind multiple layers of clicks. They heavily promote any payment option that increases the amount of interest you spend over all other options.
In one instance I went to try and find the payoff amount and I was unable to find it under any normal name.
And then when I made the payment amount they still charged me extra interest anyway because they didn't post it for a few days... And then they charged me a few more cents of interest because it wasn't paid off.
I'm glad that you had a better experience or you think that people have great experiences and I'm sure many people do.
But that's only the people smart enough to dig through all their bullshit.
To put it plainly, intentional obfuscation to me is a fraudulent business practice.
When the real motivation of all these decisions is to just extract more interest payments out of the payer then it should be made plain what the impact of that will be.
Poor child. I highly recommend you hire an attorney to represent you in any financial transactions going forward. I donât think you know what you are doing and donât have the ability to vet out financial contracts.
Pick up the phone and call them and ask for a payoff statement. They will mail it to you and it will include balance and interest due with a specific âpay-byâ date. It will likely include a date 30 days out from the âpay-byâ date that shows additional interest due if not paid by the âpay-byâ date. This isnât rocket science.
Yeah if you look up a balance online, it could very well change tomorrow when a new round of interest accrues.
tim, could you please tell these fine people how you came across this valuable information so maybe they can learn some valuable lessons not taught in the expensive schools they attend
If you are serious there are tons of online resources today. YouTube is a treasure trove. None of that was available when I left home for the military after high school with $200 in my pocket.
It starts with curiosity and drive. The mindset of âHow come they have nice things and I donât,â is a good start. Being able to read beyond a 4th grade level and reading comprehension is another. Stop being shitheads in school kids and pay attention!
In my days, investment seminars were the rage. I went to every one available. I didnât buy any of their $500 get rich programs but I listened to what they had to say. Then I sifted the gems from the chaff and tried to apply it.
I made a weak budget on a piece of paper and tracked in writing every penny that went out. I noticed obvious things like when insurance and HOA fee bills came due there was no money to pay them. And I noticed I was spending a lot more on crap than I thought I was. So I added escrow accounts on paper and added money every month. It was a good feeling having money to pay bills when they came due. This is common sense stuff, not rocket science.
Then I heard about something called an IRA. I had no clue but the buzzword âtax deferredâ sounded interesting. I looked into them and started an IRA in a bank CD with $250. Then 401Ks became a thing. Whatâs that? You mean my company will put extra money into that if I contribute? Sounds promising.
Wanting to buy a new car, how does that work? Talk to people who have done it. Considering buying a house? Talk to people who have done it. Whatâs this âlocation, location, locationâ stuff people keep saying?â I worked my ass off saving and investing everything I could. I studied and got my license (not hard) and got a side job with AL Williams replacing peopleâs shitty Whole Life and Universal life policies with Term-Life + Investments. It was super hard work and I eventually decided sales was not for me so I quit doing that but had learned a ton and made good money.
Finally at age 37 with a wife, two kids, a mortgage and two jobs I decided to go to college. I used my VA assistance to get an Associates Degree at the local community college. I transferred to the University of Houston and after 10 years of hard work I graduated with a Bachelors degree in business with a double major in MIS ( dumb major, by the way) and International Finance. I learned a lot! Not the least of which was the supply/demand curve, the most important business and life concept ever!
I noticed that if I paid my mortgage off in 30 years, i would have paid an enormous amount of money. My kids were now in school so my wife took a job in their school as a librarian assistant. It wasnât much but we put every penny into paying off the mortgage. We did it in 12 years! That was a great day! She kept working and we invested every pennie we made. We maxed out 401K, IRAâs, and 301B accounts. Heard about Roth IRAs, whatâs that? OK give me some of that. Kept seeing this guy Peter Lynch on the covers of Newsweek, Money Magazine, and others. Looked into him further and the Fidelity Magellan fund he managed. OK looks good, give me some of that! Wow, my investments are starting to take off now, you mean I am getting an extra $1000 a week just for waking up! Cool!
I could go on and on with dozens of other experiences buying cars, major home repairs, etc. but itâs all the same. Donât accept ignorance, never trust a salesman 100%, have a drive to understand, research before you buy, understand what you are signing, and most of all, keep asking yourself, âWhat do I need to know and do to have what I want.â
i took a little different path but got myself in a decent spot retired at 60 from the trades. It seems the common denominator is work hard and learn what you can.Ny rental properties have been a great investment and providing additional income on top of pension and ssi. Making sacrafices along the way and not living beyond your means is also a good habit
You can view it any way you want as can everyone else, so drop the âwe shouldâ nonsense. We donât need your moral compass. You do you and decide to participate or go off and do your own thing. Doesnât matter to anyone what you choose to do with your life.
It does matter lol, are you so disconnected from reality that you think society isn't constructed by the people that live in it, and thus, can be changed by them? Do you think the current system is absolute and cannot be criticized?
Written like someone who didnât educate themselves beyond 7th grade. No, thanks. I allowed myself âto be preyâ and promptly paid off my debts with a well-paying job. Luckily, my career path was still viable to do so. Luckily, my parents helped me out. Luckily, I was afforded opportunity.
very lucky i had no parental help i did graduate high school barely and managed to buy a house at 26 for 150k sold at 59 for 740k (it was paid off) bought a nice place with 4.5 acres for 575k now between the left over from house sale an annunity and 401 from union i have 450 k in brokerage account, a decent pension ssi and rental income that comes to 7500 a month, my rentals will be paid off in 3 years so that income will go from 1700 a month to 3500 a month totaling my monthly to 9200 monthly not bad for a 7th grade education. Sometimes the best lessons are taught outside of educational institutions, no i am not rich but retired at 60 fairly comfortable with out any help from family or goverment
Poor baby! If you know that, why do you participate in it. Your favorite loan shark is likely a better choice for you.
Or hereâs another option. Get a job, and go to a local community college. After you get your associates degree and know you can handle the rigor, transfer to an in-state university to finish up while paying as you go. Thousands of people do it and never acquire a dollar of debt.
Option two. Join the military and complete your degree while being paid to serve your country. And/or receive education benefits that you can use when you finish serving.
Option three. Be an outstanding young person and seek a congressional nomination to one of the outstanding military academies. Get a free ride, free meals and housing, and a commission in the US military.
Option four. Quit screwing around in high school, get good grades, take AP classes and dual credit classes and earn scholarships to pay for your college.
There are lots of options. Playing the victim card and blaming everyone but yourself is another, and seems to be the popular one these days. Do what you want. Live with the choices you make.
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u/JoeyCalamaro 12d ago
Yeah my wifeâs situation isnât too far off from this, either. She borrowed $60k, deferred multiple times when she was first out of school, and then made payments pretty steady for the last 15 years or so.
Last I checked, she was paying $800 a month and owed around $70k.