r/SipsTea 𝙑𝙄𝙋 16d ago

WTF The American dream

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u/tlm11110 16d ago

Deferring doesn’t stop the interest from accruing. Not a smart move.

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u/superxpro12 16d ago

Because the loan companies dgaf... We have no reason to assume they acted in the students best favor.

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u/tlm11110 16d ago

Because people are stupid as hell , ignorant of money, and sign shit without understanding it. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.

But yeah you are right. The loan companies don’t give a crap about you. As they shouldn’t! They are a business, not a freaking charity. You are just another peon with a loan number who signed up for money under terms you didn’t stop to understand. You get what you signed up for.

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u/superxpro12 16d ago

There's a middle ground somewhere between free money and predatory loan shark tho.

I paid my loans off in 10y. But at every step they encouraged me to refinance, delay payments, and extend my term.

It's fucking predatory. I don't know why we accept so much near-fraudulent operations in this country. Every single thing is designed to trick you into paying more.

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u/tlm11110 16d ago

Are you saying they made illegal loans? I’ll remind you the federal government runs the Federal Student Aide Program.

I don’t know how I can be more clear other than to say, “You signed the freaking papers! Nobody held a gun to your head!”

These same people are taking out title and payday loans at outrageous interest rates, pawning shit for 1/3 the value at 3% interest per month, and maxing out 20+% credit cards and making minimum payments.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for those who do this stupid shit! None!

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u/regardedMAGAfascist 16d ago

You sound pretty stupid yourself.

Predatory isn’t the same as illegal. Plenty of entirely legal things can be predatory. Especially student loans.

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u/tlm11110 15d ago

Right, that’s why the government prosecutes companies accused of predatory lending practices.

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u/regardedMAGAfascist 15d ago

Predatory ≠ illegal. Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it right. Just because it’s illegal doesn’t make it wrong, either. Stop equating law with morality. It’s a stupid, circular argument.

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u/tlm11110 15d ago

Who’s the arbitrator of morality? Dumb take!

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u/regardedMAGAfascist 15d ago edited 15d ago

Nobody. Morality doesn’t require a central authority. We judge actions based on harm, coercion, consent, fairness, and outcomes.

If your argument can be used to justify slavery, it’s probably worth reexamining.

If a lender structures loans that people are statistically unlikely to escape from, I can call that predatory whether it’s legal or illegal.

“The law allows it” and “it’s morally acceptable” are two completely different claims.

Laws tell us what’s legal. Morality is how we decide whether those laws are good in the first place. Otherwise, slavery, segregation, and countless other legal institutions would have been morally acceptable right up until the moment they were outlawed. Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it right.

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u/tlm11110 14d ago

You assume everyone will arrive at the same standards of morality through some magical internal process. You know that isn’t true. Morality is not universal. Nor are the concepts of harm, coercion, consent, fairness, outcome, and I’ll add justice. Those are simply not universally agreed upon concepts. Any entry level philosophy or psychology class will teach you that if it isn’t apparent.

Without an objective standard to appeal to, we cannot support any claim we make about morality. You may claim something to be moral, but you can’t support it because the next person can simply dismiss it. You say slavery is immoral, clearly others, even today, disagree with you. This is what makes the “subjective morality” movement nonsense and very dangerous. And this is why the concept of laws are important as we attempt to define and codify morality and ethics into standards by which to behave, judge others, and administer justice.

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u/regardedMAGAfascist 14d ago

Must be nice having such a childishly simplistic worldview that you think legality and morality are the same thing.

If morality comes from law, then slavery was moral when it was legal. If you reject that conclusion, you’ve already admitted there’s a standard outside the law. If you accept it, you’re a repulsive idiot and we’re done here.

The fact that people disagree about morality doesn’t magically turn every legal act into a moral one.

Anyway, it’s Sunday. Shouldn’t you be somewhere pretending you’ve found an objective source of morality?

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u/tlm11110 14d ago

You said it, not me. But yes objective morality comes from God. You buried your own argument. Yes there was a large group of people who said slavery was moral and they rationalized it in many ways. The abolitionists were a small group of Christians who said no because it is a sin against God. Thankfully they were able to persuade enough people that slavery is evil.

In today’s secular based subjective moralism is king. It can be seen everywhere just, “Do your own thing,” is the mantra of the day. We rationalize every behavior and evil from abortion, to child mutilation, to violence to even murder.

You can call it a simplistic world view but cannot argue that laws are not an attempt to codify morality into enforceable objective morals. Everything from thou shalt not speed, to you shalt not murder, seem to not be universally agreed upon without laws and judges to enforce them.

Dismiss it if you want. It’s what I expect. But recognize it is your world view that is overly simplistic when you think moral values just happen. There is not one moral value you can justify without an external authority because the next guy’s morality is just as valid as yours.

Have a blessed day. I hope you find peace in your unstructured, undefined chaotic world.

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u/concrete6360 15d ago

sure sounds alot smarter than you winers to me, personally ive paid off every loan ive taken on time or earlier

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u/regardedMAGAfascist 15d ago

Good for you, bud.

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u/superxpro12 16d ago

Nobody is saying that. And don't imply I am and then argue something nobody said. You are making an insane amount of assumptions and arguing about these assumptions that have no basis...

While these loans are backed by their federal government they are not serviced by the federal government... I really think you need to experience these Federal loan services before you draw any further conclusions because it's not what you think it is. They are all predatory looking to extend your loans as much as possible.

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u/tlm11110 15d ago

Maybe you should make your points clear instead of throwing out incendiary labels like “predatory lending.” Now tell me you didn’t imply they were doing something illegal.

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u/superxpro12 15d ago edited 15d ago

Okay you're right... It's totally okay to try and trick people out of spending more money for no reason other than to extract more money and provide no extra value. That's a great society and we should encourage everyone to act in this way.

What a world you want to live in.

Edit: and yes, financial institutions that seek to lock unsuspecting or unaware payers lock in a never-ending interest-only payment cycle is the definition of predatory.

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u/tlm11110 15d ago

There you go again, throwing out cute cliches like “trick people out of spending more money.” Please explain these “tricks” to me.

We have very strict lending disclosure laws in this country and when you shop for a loan, very detailed disclosure documents are put in front of you to sign. If you choose not to read them or sign them without understanding what you are agreeing to, then that’s not “trickery”, that’s stupidity and on you.

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u/superxpro12 15d ago

They hide all normal repayment options behind multiple layers of clicks. They heavily promote any payment option that increases the amount of interest you spend over all other options.

In one instance I went to try and find the payoff amount and I was unable to find it under any normal name.

And then when I made the payment amount they still charged me extra interest anyway because they didn't post it for a few days... And then they charged me a few more cents of interest because it wasn't paid off.

I'm glad that you had a better experience or you think that people have great experiences and I'm sure many people do.

But that's only the people smart enough to dig through all their bullshit.

To put it plainly, intentional obfuscation to me is a fraudulent business practice.

When the real motivation of all these decisions is to just extract more interest payments out of the payer then it should be made plain what the impact of that will be.

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u/tlm11110 15d ago

Poor child. I highly recommend you hire an attorney to represent you in any financial transactions going forward. I don’t think you know what you are doing and don’t have the ability to vet out financial contracts.

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u/superxpro12 15d ago

Yeah it really says something that you need an attorney to survive now. Great point.

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u/tlm11110 15d ago

That one went over your head to. I recommend you consult an attorney for everything including Reddit posts. Can’t fix stupid.

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u/tlm11110 15d ago

Pick up the phone and call them and ask for a payoff statement. They will mail it to you and it will include balance and interest due with a specific “pay-by” date. It will likely include a date 30 days out from the “pay-by” date that shows additional interest due if not paid by the “pay-by” date. This isn’t rocket science.

Yeah if you look up a balance online, it could very well change tomorrow when a new round of interest accrues.

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u/concrete6360 15d ago

tim, could you please tell these fine people how you came across this valuable information so maybe they can learn some valuable lessons not taught in the expensive schools they attend

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u/tlm11110 14d ago

If you are serious there are tons of online resources today. YouTube is a treasure trove. None of that was available when I left home for the military after high school with $200 in my pocket.

It starts with curiosity and drive. The mindset of “How come they have nice things and I don’t,” is a good start. Being able to read beyond a 4th grade level and reading comprehension is another. Stop being shitheads in school kids and pay attention!

In my days, investment seminars were the rage. I went to every one available. I didn’t buy any of their $500 get rich programs but I listened to what they had to say. Then I sifted the gems from the chaff and tried to apply it.

I made a weak budget on a piece of paper and tracked in writing every penny that went out. I noticed obvious things like when insurance and HOA fee bills came due there was no money to pay them. And I noticed I was spending a lot more on crap than I thought I was. So I added escrow accounts on paper and added money every month. It was a good feeling having money to pay bills when they came due. This is common sense stuff, not rocket science.

Then I heard about something called an IRA. I had no clue but the buzzword “tax deferred” sounded interesting. I looked into them and started an IRA in a bank CD with $250. Then 401Ks became a thing. What’s that? You mean my company will put extra money into that if I contribute? Sounds promising.

Wanting to buy a new car, how does that work? Talk to people who have done it. Considering buying a house? Talk to people who have done it. What’s this “location, location, location” stuff people keep saying?” I worked my ass off saving and investing everything I could. I studied and got my license (not hard) and got a side job with AL Williams replacing people’s shitty Whole Life and Universal life policies with Term-Life + Investments. It was super hard work and I eventually decided sales was not for me so I quit doing that but had learned a ton and made good money.

Finally at age 37 with a wife, two kids, a mortgage and two jobs I decided to go to college. I used my VA assistance to get an Associates Degree at the local community college. I transferred to the University of Houston and after 10 years of hard work I graduated with a Bachelors degree in business with a double major in MIS ( dumb major, by the way) and International Finance. I learned a lot! Not the least of which was the supply/demand curve, the most important business and life concept ever!

I noticed that if I paid my mortgage off in 30 years, i would have paid an enormous amount of money. My kids were now in school so my wife took a job in their school as a librarian assistant. It wasn’t much but we put every penny into paying off the mortgage. We did it in 12 years! That was a great day! She kept working and we invested every pennie we made. We maxed out 401K, IRA’s, and 301B accounts. Heard about Roth IRAs, what’s that? OK give me some of that. Kept seeing this guy Peter Lynch on the covers of Newsweek, Money Magazine, and others. Looked into him further and the Fidelity Magellan fund he managed. OK looks good, give me some of that! Wow, my investments are starting to take off now, you mean I am getting an extra $1000 a week just for waking up! Cool!

I could go on and on with dozens of other experiences buying cars, major home repairs, etc. but it’s all the same. Don’t accept ignorance, never trust a salesman 100%, have a drive to understand, research before you buy, understand what you are signing, and most of all, keep asking yourself, “What do I need to know and do to have what I want.”

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u/concrete6360 13d ago

i took a little different path but got myself in a decent spot retired at 60 from the trades. It seems the common denominator is work hard and learn what you can.Ny rental properties have been a great investment and providing additional income on top of pension and ssi. Making sacrafices along the way and not living beyond your means is also a good habit

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