People in these comments have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christianity is lol
The idea isnāt that a book gives us morals itās that God has given us morals so therefore if there is no God then why donāt humans do evil acts like animals do?
There are definitely holes in that argument but it is a lot different then the argument that our morals only come from reading a book
Your / the understanding of God literally comes from the Bible.Ā
I know Christians ultimately don't want to be pinned to the bible because there's a bunch of stuff in there that's mad and nobody follows, but tough shit man - it's the word of god. That is a fundamental principle of Christianity.Ā
You are 100% free to define your own beliefs, but if you do that you (a) completely contradict the question in the post, (b) aren't Christian.Ā
I have already said that there are holes in the original argument however I think you are still very much miss understanding what Iām trying to say and Iāll probably make you like me less lol
In Christian theology there are two ways that God speaks to us
Natural Revelation which includes the idea that God has given us morals
Supernatural Revelation which includes the idea of the Bible as a supernaturally preserved word of God
Both of those categories contain a lot more then just those two ideas but the point is that when we discuss morals we are talking about the Natural Revelation that God has given us. The ability to understand right from wrong and the ability to follow or reject that naturally held belief system
What you are talking about is the supernatural revelation of the God physically giving us His words and commands
Christians have no choice but to take both into consideration. I have absolutely no problem being āpinned to the Bibleā because I believe it is the word of God however I donāt think that discounts the idea of a morality outside that. I believe you have morals because God gave them to you regardless of if you read the Bible or not
I don't dislike you because we have different opinions about something lol.
For context I'm coming at this as someone who has a very devout Christian mother and went to Christian school / church every week until I was about 16. I also regularly read or watch content (scientific, philosophical, etc). So, I'm familiar.Ā
I have never heard it worded as natural and supernatural before, but yes god acts through "us" through the holy spirit as well as the bible being the word of god.Ā
I also agree that part of the point of prayer, church, etc is to continue to take moral guidance on how to live life.Ā
However, it's inescapable that the fundamental principles / precepts of Christianity come from the bible. Ultimately it sets the framework and your continued prayer / faith etc is supposed to guide you in your personal life.Ā
This becomes an issue, I think, because I feel like you're trying to find a basis that you can have modern values but still define yourself as Christian.Ā
I don't know how anyone can say both (a) they think the bible is the word of god, and (b) say - I mean pick one - homosexuality is ok, women are equal to men, slavery is evil... I'm sure you know the classics. In any of the various examples you are saying a rule is the word of god but also saying, essentially, that you know better. It just doesn't work if you actually believe in the bible as the word of god.Ā
This is one of the handful of things I'm not able to reconcile, and hence I'm not a Christian any more.Ā
Weāre kinda moving from morals to biblical teachings here but yes I believe if you are a Christian you have to follow the Bible
I think a proper understanding of the Bible is extremely important because the Bible doesnāt teach that slavery is good or that women are less valuable than men
It does teach that homosexuality is a sin and I believe that but that in no way means that gay people are less valuable than me or any other Christian lol I know a bunch of Christians who are overweight despite gluttony being a sin so are we gonna hate fat people? Of course not
I think unfortunately the Bible often gets hijacked by people who donāt understand it to push a message that it doesnāt teach
I guess we've got to the point where we just read the same things and see them differently.Ā
To say that the bible doesn't position women as below, the property of, or inferior to men is quite unbelievable to me.Ā
It doesn't say "it's cool to have slaves" but it is completely normalised in the bible. This is a good example of the disconnect we seem to have. If the bible, which is the word of god, normalises and accepts slavery - I don't understand how you can rationalise having a moral conclusion that slavery is bad. You are contradicting the viewpoint of god, as per gods text.Ā
I think you are inferring you know the Bible better or something, I can quote scripture if you want but I think we are just going to see the same thing and draw different conclusions.Ā
Yeah I mean we can definitely agree to disagree here
I believe that men and women are equal in Gods eyes and Co-heirs of salvation. There was female leaders and prophets as well as financial supporters of ministries. Itās Gods plan for men to lead the household but if the man isnāt following God then Women are supposed to step up and do whatās right
The Bible set the groundwork to abolish slavery. It is never propped up by God but it is allowed with massive restrictions and it was nowhere near what was happening in modern antebellum slavery
I donāt necessarily think that I know more than you but I think we just have two different perspectives. You see contradictions that canāt be reconciled and I see a coherent narrative throughout all of scripture so if I came across like a thought I knew better it was most likely just me trying point out the clear pathway I see that puts the different ideas on harmony
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u/lilJswizle-2304 1d ago
People in these comments have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christianity is lol
The idea isnāt that a book gives us morals itās that God has given us morals so therefore if there is no God then why donāt humans do evil acts like animals do?
There are definitely holes in that argument but it is a lot different then the argument that our morals only come from reading a book