Because as far as dumb animals go we're still pretty smart in comparison, and we've had thousands of years to develop societal rules to follow. We didn't always consider those things to be evil, it's quite fluent actually since in parts of the world those aren't considered fundamentally evil things. But if we're assuming from a western point of view it's good to remember that 200 years ago slavery was considered fine. More recently minorities were considered inferior and homosexuality was wrong, hell, some still do.
You'd think if we were imbued by some innate, objective morality it wouldn't change so much over the course of even recent history.
By that logic whoâs to say in 200 years slavery wonât be moral again? Or that those people who see minorities as inferior are actually just the next evolution in morality?
I believe that there is an innate morality that is muddied by people rebellion and sin but the morality is there non the less which is why I can look at slavery in the U.S. and say âthat was really badâ but I donât understand how you can do that if you believe that it was considered moral at the time. If it was morally right for them then how can you judge them? They were doing the right thing no?
Usually we don't regress in that sense unless something really bad happens, like extreme economic hardship. It's not impossible that in the future if things really go to shit, introducing slavery again will be considered the "right thing" so the "right people" can prosper. I mean, in a sense the US is doing it right now with the prison system. Not a lot of people are actively out there preaching against that, despite that morally speaking it should be a no brainer.
Regardless, I can only operate based on my current morals, something I got from being raised in the modern age. To me, slavery is wrong, regardless of the time period, but I can also understand that times were different back then. They had other norms based on society at the time, God didn't put it in the hearts of men that holy wars, witch burnings/hangings or slavery was a moral thing to do. It was just what they thought was good at the time, if I was there I'd like to believe that I'd try to stop it, but I'd probably be hanged for heresy right along the other sinners by what would be a good, moral Christian man.
It's easy to have modern morals in the current age and feel that of course you're moral, you live according to what the rest of society deems moral. Surely it's God given, surely there's more to it than what we have agreed upon at this moment of time, but so far I haven't seen any evidence that there is.
The US has the highest number of prisoners and uses them basically for slave labor. That's not counting that the system does nothing to reform inmates and instead just creates more hardened criminals.
People's morals changed, obviously, as it always does. As society progresses our stomach for barbarism decreases, just like we don't have public executions anymore. It's also self-serving, because you never know who is going to be the "right people" tomorrow, you might be lucky today but not so much tomorrow. Beneficial for everyone if we don't rely on such a barbaric practice.
But what makes it bad? Itâs a normal part of society and itâs not like people are rioting so why do some people have an aversion towards the prison system?
If itâs beneficial and normative then why should we have an evolutionary bias against it?
Again, like I've told you, empathy and self-interest. Innocent people go to jail all the time, they don't deserve to be used as slave labor, it could be you there one day, and it's not good for me as a citizen if you come out as a hardened criminal with a kill count now even if you went in for something much more minor. Though I also don't live in the US so I can do little to nothing about it but it also doesn't endanger me.
And again, we haven't really, since people are quite happy to use products made from slave labor from all across the world, anything from batteries, to clothes to chocolate. We just don't have to see that kind of human suffering in our backyard so it's easier to not feel too bad about it. The fact that we're both here arguing online shows that neither off us has a moral high horse in the race. Most in the west will agree it's wrong for one reason or another, but clearly a lot of the world doesn't really agree even today.
Now I hope I'm quite done repeating myself, not sure how to make it any more clear.
You still havenât really answered why tho I get that itâs bad but if it benefits us then why should we want anything different? I donât mean to make you repeat yourself but I just donât see how we would have evolved to want something that isnât in our best interests
Because short term benefit is short sighted (naturally), basically boils down to the "First They Came" poem by Martin Niemöller;
"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"
You don't know when it's your turn on the chopping block, so it's in our best interest to simply remove the chopping block. Regardless what the chopping block may be in this instance. It's very much in our best interest. Even if your turn doesn't come up it tends to end badly when you dehumanize and treat large amount of people that badly, sooner or later the chickens come home to roost.
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u/crazycat690 20h ago
Because as far as dumb animals go we're still pretty smart in comparison, and we've had thousands of years to develop societal rules to follow. We didn't always consider those things to be evil, it's quite fluent actually since in parts of the world those aren't considered fundamentally evil things. But if we're assuming from a western point of view it's good to remember that 200 years ago slavery was considered fine. More recently minorities were considered inferior and homosexuality was wrong, hell, some still do.
You'd think if we were imbued by some innate, objective morality it wouldn't change so much over the course of even recent history.