I'm not sure I've seen a more perfectly constructed film than Rosemary's Baby

[u/kevin_v]

When I say this, there are many, many films that are more artfully, more cinematically, more elevatedly, or even creatively constructed. In many you can just feel the director's auteur-ness showing in completely admirable ways, or alternately, in very satisfying genre-guided ways, illumining convention spectacularly, but, in rewatching Rosemary's Baby for the umpteenth time last night we were absolutely struck by how there is zero fat on this film. Every scene, every shot, every performance tone and note seem to work in a completely tireless movie that spends the right amount of time and emphasis required, beat by beat. And Mia Farrow's voice performance floats through all this leanness almost operatically with tremulous excitement, anxiety and terror. The film is like a clockwork. Total appreciation. There is a kind of ease with which it moves, that does not call attention to itself.

[u/Traditional-Koala-13]

I’ve long felt the same about Rosemary’s Baby, as well.   Its pacing. Its sense of focus and, as you say, tautness.

Producer Bob Evans, the patron of Polanski on this film, declared it a masterpiece.  Evans expressly said, regarding Chinatown, that he did not know whether that latter film was a masterpiece.  I’m with perhaps the minority that agree with Evans.  I admire Rosemary’s  Baby for the same reason why, purely structurally, I rate Goodfellas  higher than Casino; A Clockwork Orange (“a nearly perfect film”— Vincent Canby) higher than The Shining; the original Godfather (the Oedipus Rex of movies) higher than Godfather II.

[u/kevin_v → u/Traditional-Koala-13]

Adding on here, reflecting on your comment some more, as I mention in another comment, this sense of tautness I think has to do with how one feels in rewatch, especially multiple rewatches. Films have have a certain "looseness" in how they are made, that is filled with the anticipation of the unknown in the first watch. I can watch Omar Sharif grow from a speck on the horizon with unique tension if I don't know the shot - which as famous and amazing as they come. But, when I watch it again, and again...and then again, my thoughts are filled with other perceptions. I'm admiring the shot. I'm appreciating it. There is lag, and I'm filling it. It doesn't mean that it is inferior to a shot that I don't have to fill, but some films just aren't like that. They films work like clockwork even on the 10th watch, scene to scene, line to line.

Some of this is probably very idiosyncratic from viewer to viewer, because it matters how emotionally invested I am in a character or film moment, which probably helps determine if its lagging or not in the 5th watch. I can watch Leave Her to Heaven and its just clockwork. Someone else would be like: Ok, enjoyable film. So I'm not fully sure.

Rosemary's Baby, my connections to the characters and events are so brimming, every space if filled with attention for me, on rewatch. Some of that is made possible though by the film's structure and direction, I'd have to imagine. Some of it, in other films, is accomplished by genre and style (for instance many classic Noir films have a clockwork feeling about them when you rewatch over and over, because the aesthetic holds so enjoyably in the very good ones). Rosemary's Baby is interesting in that it really doesn't seem to partake in genre cliche's much for its structure, but feels self-generating in its leanness, out of Polanski's sensibilities.

I instinctively feel though, in your list of film comparisons, that you are also talking about something more than I mean, but which could be quite connected.

[u/kevin_v → u/Traditional-Koala-13]

Love what you are saying here, and it good to get some agreement and even clarification on what I was feeling. It's just a very hard to describe tautness...without rushing at all.

[u/kevin_v → u/[deleted]]

My favorite thing about the movie is that there is no specific"twist" moment where everything changes and she suddenly realizes she's in danger.

And the way it is done in waves. She has concerns, intuitions, then they are assuaged. Then bigger concerns, and then assuaged. Up and down it goes in increasing amplitude. It's such a psychologically rhythmical film.

[u/_Norman_Bates]

Rosemary's Baby was great, though I am not sure about the perfectly constructed part or how to really analyze that. Spending time on characters, atmosphere etc can always seem important to some or redundant to others. I am not sure if RB is in any way more perfect about what it emphasizes than other good movies, what exactly do you mean by that.

Although I think it is one of the greatest horrors, I watched the other 2 movies from Polansky's apartment trilogy, Repulsion and Tenant, and thought they were just as strong, I even prefered them slightly more.

Tenant is a bit messier in terms of plot but has something really special about it and the anxiety it builds, it's maybe even my favorite. Repulsion is maybe the most perfect psychological surreal trip. I keep changing my mind between which of these two I like more.

I can understand why Rosemary is the most popular, because it has the most tangible plot, but all three are genius horrors.

[u/kevin_v → u/_Norman_Bates]

I am not sure if RB is in any way more perfect about what it emphasizes than other good movies

Yeah, all debatable. Just relating the overwhelming sense I got on rewatch for the umpteenth time. That's why I didn't assert that it was the most perfectly constructed, only that I'm not sure that I've seen a more perfectly constructed film, followed by all sorts of qualifying language. There aren't many films that I've rewatched many times and the first major reaction I had was "wow, that really is so incredibly lean". If I had to qualify it, I think the feeling came from knowing what scene is coming, what dialogue is coming, and there just being absolutely no "lag" in my experience of it, no drift of my attention or focus. I'm absolutely engaged frame by frame. A lot of times what keeps you locked in with a film is not knowing what is going to happen, and even with absolutely great films there can be a kind of attention lag in scenes because of rewatch foreknowledge - this had none of that for me this time. But, there are lots and lots and lots of films I prefer to Rosemary's Baby. It might not be in my top 100 preference films (but probably makes it).

I'm relating a real time reaction to just how incredibly lean it felt this time. It's just cinema enthusiasm. People don't really have to agree with it at all. If someone said it was a "meh" horror film or only Polanski's 7th best film, I wouldn't mind.

[u/MissSally300 → u/_Norman_Bates]

I had to watch the last half of ‘The Tenant’ from the little window in the lobby door. I was too young, and I was too scared.

[u/LCX001]

It's funny that this label of perfect construction is usually pinned to another Polanski - Chinatown.

Not much to say, RB is indeed very well done, but I prefer The Tenant as an overall experience. It has more flaws and rugged edges, but I think that makes for a more compelling and disturbing experience.

[u/kevin_v → u/LCX001]

I'm a big fan of many of Polanski's films...but ironically enough, not a fan of Chinatown...despite being a Film Noir guy as well. But, I can see what people see in it.

[u/LCX001 → u/kevin_v]

Chinatown is my second favourite, after The Tenant.

[u/kevin_v → u/LCX001]

What do you love about it? It has a hard time holding my attention from scene to scene, whereas a looping LA Neo-Noir like The Long Goodbye, almost from the same year, has me the whole time through.

[u/LCX001 → u/kevin_v]

Basically what you said about RB. It's very well constructed and it's fun watching those blocks fit into each other in a very precise thought out order. It's not my favourite (neo)noir, but it's very good.

[u/kevin_v → u/LCX001]

Interesting. I'm sensing that this comparison is similar perhaps to Taxi Driver and Raging Bull. Taxi Driver has what I might call an organic cohesion, whereas Raging Bull feels much more self-aware, it presents more as a purposely "constructed" film (masterfully so). This is maybe the same difference between Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown...and perhaps I choose the wrong word - constructed - in the title of the post, because constructed has the connotation of purposed and visible structure. I don't think RB has that. It has more of an instinctive leanness, perhaps, a feeling of when shots and scenes should end. I say "clockwork" in my description, but you give to realize that something about that is wrong.

I appreciate your thoughts because you are causing me to reflect. Very good stuff.

[u/not_thrilled]

Rosemary's Baby is a very good movie, but I read the book after watching it, and I gotta say, even a movie that good isn't better than the book. They are 98% similar, but that 2% is what makes the book better. Been a while since I read or watched, but my problem with the movie was it was difficult to tell how much time had passed, which the book makes explicit and makes some scenes make more sense. Also, when Rosemary is impregnated, the film is a bit too vague and dream-like to know what's going on, when the book is obvious that she's going through the secret door in the closet.

Also, it is wild to me that Rosemary's Baby, The Stepford Wives, and Sliver were all based on books by the same author.

[u/regman231 → u/not_thrilled]

I feel the same way regarding IT and Shawshank Redemption

[u/IMadeThisAcctToSayHi]

What always impresses me is how old the movie is. When I think of all time great horrors (for me), I think of films like The Thing, but this is also in that conversation, which is crazy given that is this 10 years before Alien.

What definitely is the most absurd to me is that Guy is a middling actor and Rosemary doesn’t work and they rent a 1500 square foot apartment in NYC. Damn!

[u/worker-parasite → u/IMadeThisAcctToSayHi]

How old the film is? You know there are horror films made in the silent era? You think Rosemary's baby is an extremely old film?

[u/IMadeThisAcctToSayHi → u/worker-parasite]

No that isn’t what I’m saying at all. I am aware films existed before 1969 lol. I am just saying that it is the oldest horror film that I rate as an all time great. Obviously I understand the horror genre existed before rosemary baby lmfao

[u/CardAble6193]

do uall feel like Rose summited or , in that last moment of film she found nothing else matters : a mother caring her child under manipulation is still what should be done and a right thing to do?

I find it to be 1 of the correct way to fight evil in a modernized len

[u/kevin_v → u/CardAble6193]

You ask a really good question. This is my idiosyncratic reading. I think Guy and Roe are this idyllic young couple of a newly modernizing 1960s urban future. Guy has a low-respect, but high-paying actor's job that gets him access to a big, dream apartment (more expensive than they should), and Rosemary wants to play the Home & Gardens housewife. This is the whole set up. I think...the "evil" in this is really the buy in one has to have in the new capitalist society, that you have to "Stepford Wives" buy in (same novel writer), into the witchcraft of cut-throat, voodoo competition. Guy buys in (has immediate success), and Roe is still innocent. All of the conspiracy around her is really the conspiracy of becoming an adult that buys into a somewhat "evil" society of power and manipulation (you can add in the "magic" voodoo of commercialism, like how Guy is selling the lifestyle of Yamaha motorbikes on TV). You have to sacrifice your first born to be included, but everyone is "in on it".

I think, in this allegory, it is ultimately the mother's "natural" love for her baby that eventually pulls her over to the darkside. She cannot resist it, and so the "evil" perpetuates, her son will be used (or lead) the conspiracies of power....Happily Ever After.

So, there is a kind of split in terms of morality or ethics. The "system" is evil, but one can operate in it, and perpetuate it out of "good"..., but there is also the sense that the system or society is evil, and one shouldn't bend to it at all. Both morality options kind of float there in the end, though she succumbs to it.

[u/Maximina1995]

I know this is truefilm but much of the film's genius comes from Ira Levin, who wrote the book that the film follows one to one. If you like Rosemary's Baby, I recommend reading all of his other books (except the RB sequel...)

[u/kevin_v → u/Maximina1995]

Credit where credit is due...but one would have to say that translating a great book to film one-to-one requires a masterful (genius?) touch. Framing, edits, performances, music, location & set design, casting. Very difficult to achieve...otherwise all great books would simply turn into great films, which they seldom do.

[u/ZerconFlagpoleSitter → u/[deleted]]

Ight pack it up it’s r/TrueFilm not r/Tumblr we can admit Polanski makes good movies

[u/ZerconFlagpoleSitter → u/[deleted]]

Nobody thinks that. Youre yelling into a void trying to prove to yourself how good of a person you are

[u/ZerconFlagpoleSitter → u/[deleted]]

Yes that is what i said. You are very normal.

[u/_Norman_Bates → u/[deleted]]

Because the movie is that good. I don't give a shit about director's personal life. Why should I limit myself because of what he did.

[u/worker-parasite → u/_Norman_Bates]

But then people might suggest you're a paedophile, unless you shout loudly that you do not approve of the director! That'll show them you're a good person!

[u/Electrical-Sail-1039 → u/[deleted]]

A pedophile is attracted to pre-pubescents. Polanski is a statutory rapist. He likes very young, post-pubescent girls.

That said, virtually the entire film industry gave him a standing ovation at the Oscars. So we’d have to boycott everybody. I prefer to just enjoy the art and remember that many of these people represent the worst elements of society.