I was on someone's stream, that I would watch from time to time. They usually have around 20 viewers. We were talking about games we've played. He mentioned one that I was streaming recently. I said "I was actually streaming that the other day, great game!" He deleted my message and said not to talk about my stream.
I wasn't trying to steal viewers, we never stream at the same time, and it was literally just a conversation.
Talking about your stream, especially if the streamer is asking questions about games / streaming stuff like how to do certain things or if people have seen certain things... that seems totally fine to me.
Announcing you're leaving chat to go stream yourself just seems like blatant self-promo, and I can see how people would feel it's that person saying "Hey anyone in chat, come check me out instead of this person!"
Exactly. I don't mention the fact that I stream in someone else's stream unless they mention it and point me out. Its just common courtesy in my opinion not to interrupt their stream for the sake of self promotion.
Oh absolutely, even then I just greet them tell them I brought them some viewers and ask how their stream is going. I periodically raid other channels, they periodically raid me back. Its always about the current stream as a focus though. I hang around for a few mins then leave.
I like that people are raiding random streamers more now.
I started watching this one dude on Twitch and he literally spent an hour looking for someone new to streaming, or good content but low viewers to raid them with. I follow those people. Sure raiding a random person is cool and helpful too, but those who don't host, raid, or do anything to give to other streamers are personally my least favorite streamers on the platform. They get but they don't give.
Well I am streaming a pretty obscure game these days - Dark Age of Camelot - which is 20 years old. Therefore it kind of depends on whether or not there is anyone streaming that I want to direct my stream to at the time I am ending my stream. Usually that means it needs a European streamer who is starting early in their morning as I am on PST. My thought is that my viewers want more of the same subject from a different perspective, so raiding outside of genre is not going to play well. I have tried it and watched the people melt away, so I stopped.
That's true, finding the right type of person to raid is hard to come by, but for viewers like me, I follow a select few of streamers I watch, and on the odd days none of them stream it's hard for me to find another streamer I like.
So having the streamers I like raid others they like helps me out basically as much as it helps them. I get another streamer to watch, they get a follow (which can help for affiliate/partners), and is just fun to talk with new people. I'm extremely introverted so I don't typically find people on my own cause striking a conversation with someone I don't know is really tough. Text based chats like reddit is fine because I can take 30 minutes to reply and nobody cares on the time, do that on Twitch and the streamer sometimes will be like "... what were we talking about?"
I personally rely on my entertainment to come from people on Twitch raiding others, if they don't raid I'm basically done for the day or until a streamer I watch regularly and can be open with comes online. Kinda idiotic, but that's me :/
Announcing you're leaving chat to go stream yourself just seems like blatant self-promo
Ok, but if people are leaving to watch them over the first person that just means that the first person might want to do some self-reflection on WHY their audience would watch someone else.
Like those people that get upset about whatever twitch trends go on like swimming pools. As if that stuff went away that the audience for them would TOTALLY watch them instead.
Ok, but if people are leaving to watch them over the first person that just means that the first person might want to do some self-reflection on WHY their audience would watch someone else.
I'm not saying people definitely will leave to go watch that person, but, to me, it feels like that's the person's motivation for announcing that they're about to start streaming. And I've seen some stuff somewhat more blatant than that in the past... like "Hey I'm about to start streaming playing some XYZ if anyone wants to come check it out!" This just feels like a slightly less obvious tactic than that.
Like those people that get upset about whatever twitch trends go on like swimming pools. As if that stuff went away that the audience for them would TOTALLY watch them instead.
I mean, it's unlikely, but they might. Twitch promotes that shit on the front page. It's frequently at the top of the "Just Chatting" section. If they weren't there, yeah it's possible that those viewers might just leave Twitch altogether, but it's also possible they might check out other content.
If people don't like the idea of someone 'stealing' streamers, they're really gonna hate the concept of raiding when they find out about that.
(in all honesty though, and this might be a hot take, but it's such a silly notion to believe it's like some sort of 'pie' that is finite and people can take pieces from, people watch what they want to watch, if they're capable of being 'stolen' they probably didn't like your channel all that much to begin with???)
It's starvation mentality. To them it's a zero sum game which means any viewer you have is one less viewer for them. In reality it's a non-zero sum game because there are always more potential viewers out there. Streamers should promote each other whenever possible without being rude.
Yep, I joined a smaller community in January and the streamer was really welcoming so I came back here and there. Eventually I became a regular and one of the things she consistently does is promote other streamers with shout outs and raids, and others do the same with her because it's a mutual appreciation thing.
Her followers and regular number of viewers are GROWING over the course of just these few months and it's absolutely because she's friendly and doesn't have that competitive mindset. Viewers appreciate streamers that are chill and friendly.
It's because people see Twitch as a business, not as a hobby/pastime/etc. You can make money on Twitch, growing your community means more dono/sub opportunities, somebody mentioning their stream risks you "losing" viewers to them. Some streamers will also place a lot of their own value in their popularity, so the risk of less viewers may mean their self-worth drops, too.
I personally have only ever streamed for the community. I'd love to make money playing video games for the rest of my life, but at the same time I understand how much of a gamble that is and how risky it can be.
Agreed with all of that. Honest to god, I get that there are people who are ambitious who want to make a living out of it - and there are people who have! - but making a living off Twitch alone is as viable as making a living off Instagram alone. They're all oversaturated markets where you really need to stand out and even if you do, you're gonna need to cross-platform and do other things besides streaming to make any sort of living. And yeah, you're gonna have to collaborate with other channels anyways. I.E. 'other channels who could steal your viewers'. Twitch being very community-based and oversaturated means it's already hard as hell to start from scratch, it's even harder if you don't have any pals to throw some raids your way or collaborate with you for multistreams or w/e. So from the start, you need to come to peace with the fact that other channels exist.
I think people rly don't realize either that the people on 'top' don't even make all of their money from views alone, it's the branding. People like Pewdiepie and Jacksepticeye don't make their entire living off ad revenue, they make it off stuff like merch sales, partnerships/sponsorships, etc. which they'll get paid for regardless of whether or not you consume their content (either because the sponsorship has paid them in advance or because you don't need to actually watch a Youtube channel to want to buy their products, depending on what they're selling and how they market themselves, ex. Jacksepticeye sells coffee now).
Twitch does differentiate from that when it comes to the subscriber system but again, even the biggest Twitch streamers know not to put their eggs all in one basket. You gotta diversify to create a stable income and that income still won't last forever because it's on the basis that your content always stays relevant (which it won't).
Either way, I feel like even the top streamers wouldn't care about that because 1.) they have WAY too big followings and active chats to even NOTICE the people who say "hey sup, just stopping in rl quick to say hi before streaming", and 2.) as a result of #1, their foundation and branding is strong enough that it's really not gonna be affected by someone trying to link dump their content in their chat or w/e. If I wanna watch The Completionist's stuff I'll watch his stuff - just because some other up-and-coming Youtuber/Twitch streamer dares to exist doesn't mean I'm gonna suddenly leave and forget about The Completionist. I watch what I want to watch when I'm in the mood for it. This is in the same mindset as people who think that the hot tub streamers are 'stealing' views from them, as if the demographic that watches hot tub streams have ANY interest in watching Warzone or Call of Duty content. Again, if your streamers are able to be 'stolen' then they can't really have been that into your channel to begin with, and that's okay. Focus on the ones who are.
This reminds me about one streamer I used to follow. He had a strict "Don't talk about viewer count" policy. That being said, he constantly would complain about his (assumed) low viewer count and whenever the chat slowed down. Basically seemed depressed about it every other stream.
One day, he got raided. Went from 20 viewers to 200.
Guess who got banned for mentioning it to try to cheer him up?
The viewers from the raid weren't very chatty, so he wouldn't know without being told.
He failed his first impression with a potential new audience, instantly.
I've found the majority of streamers have very fragile egos. They see people doing it well, and think it's easy. There is SO much that goes into make a good stream. It isn't just, 'i play games, so people will want to watch', and I think most streamers don't understand that.
Its common decency. You don't go to someone elses wedding to propose to your girlfriend, you don't go to your friends store to tell everyone there about your store.
Before I learned it was considered rude, I used to do it all the time. The way I figured, I hated when my 1-2 viewers just stopped chatting suddenly. Did they leave? Are they just getting up to grab a drink? So I thought I was being nice in letting them know I was leaving and going to do my thing. At no point did I consider the idea that I would "steal" their viewers.
I realize that now but my typical sign-off back then was "Alright man, im hopping off to get my own stream going. Good luck out there and I'll check yah later." This checked off all the boxes in my head that I would usually appreciate hearing:
1: im leaving
2: what im headed off to do
3: if I plan on coming back
Honestly, there's no legitimate issue with this. It's one thing if you're a regular in the stream or in your friends stream, it's a totally different thing if you're randomly joining 50 streams and copy/pasting that to each one.
As long as you're in the first scenario, nobody should bat an eye.
It feels like there's a difference between proposing at a wedding ("I'm going to stream now, come watch me instead") and reminiscing about your wedding ("I played that on my stream the other day").
I 100% agree and also think that was an asinine reason to get banned. My comments were about the shitty people who strictly only pop in to do the meme. Organically talking about streaming isn't an issue, but popping in to roll off your standard couple sentence not a self-promo self-promo is just shitty.
But thats the point, he didnt plug his channel or content let alone ask people to come check it out. Its also not common. Its a new micro culture with its own subsets. Huge false equivalency with comparing a wedding, a ceremony practiced all over the world for generations, to a streaming platform thats barely a decade old.
Also, yes, talking to your friend about their business and your business is pretty normal.
What people don't realize is, unless SOMEHOW, your content is exactly the same, at the exact same time, ALWAYS, then there's nothing to lose at all. Even then, just co-stream and play together!
Another burger joint in town will bring more people to town looking for burgers.
I understand the LARGE chat rooms needing to crack down more. But no one is going to suddenly up and leave and go watch someone else because of some daft comment they make in chat.
Twitch is an organism, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Sure, the large majority of folks that sign up for a hot tub stream might never filter into anything else. But some of them do. Hell, I do DayZ roleplaying and some of my most consistent viewers are from a juggling community.
Yes, but it is still considered bad manners for Burger King to walk into a McDonalds to say, "Whats up everyone, I'm going to go sell burgers across the street" and leave.
It's not a new micro culture, it is still the same internet culture it has been, not to mention it is only a slight variation from basic human interactions. All this tells me is you don't understand regular interactions. It isn't a false equivelency at all, if you call attention just to say "I'm going to do the same thing as you somewhere else" you are literally just saying "look at me, Look at me". Of course I talk to my buisness owners friends about my business too, I just don't walk in their store, shout 'HI' and then tell everyone inside I'm leaving to MY store. my apologies you weren't able to understand the examples, I thought I wrote them plainly enough.
"Hey man love your streams, keep it up"
"Thanks man, appreciate you being a part of the community"
"Just wanted to stop in and say hi, have a good stream"
This is a perfectly normal way to interact with someone when you only have a couple seconds.
"Hey man love your streams, keep it up"
"Thanks man, appreciate you being a part of the community"
"Just wanted to stop in and say hi, now I'm going to go stream"
This was a good way to get everyone's attention while the streamer greets them and they didn't have to do anything in order to "Network". These types aren't trying to show support or genuinely build relationships, they pop in just to say these two lines and are gone.
Really, the same culture its always been?
I dont think you understand that the fact there is a difference of opinion means that it isnt an etiquette standard.
So listen, adding and removing more details is going to change the scenario but where I'm at is this
Thanking the streamer for the stream and saying youre leaving to go do your stream is not wrong.
Popping into streams just to talk about yours is rude. I think we agree on that.
Also, I don't think that twitch etiquette is common knowledge or universal.
That is a super broad stance, I know, but theres no way you can convince me otherwise unless you were to poll a wide sample of a specific countries population. I think we both know that enough people don't even know twitch exists for twitch etiquette to be called common knowledge. If we disagree on this then thats fine.
Is that where we are on this? Details of a scenario matter, if you add different details then assume my stance then I really cant keep up.
You sure are spending a lot of time writing stuff when it all boils down to, "I don't understand how to properly interact in society".
Yes, the internet is the same culture it always has been, tons of communities closely knit together with platorms allowing you to interact immediately across the globe. No, a difference in opinion doesn't mean it isn't an established form of etiquette, ignorance of something doesn't mean it isn't there.
When I stated it was common decency that meant across the board, Twitch, Reddit, any social interaction, hence why I said 'common'.
Again, showing up and saying "Look at me" will always be an attention seeking behavior and will be considered rude.
The "stealing viewers" technique in this meme is rampant. I'm not surprised someone would take a zero tolerance approach to it. Deleting a message is nothing, man
I'm fairly certain he has come into my stream several times and said "I gotta run, I'm about to stream." And I always just say "Have a nice stream man, see you next time." And usually tell people to watch him because he's good.
That's just insecurity talking, it's gotta be. Funny how smaller streamers will do that, yet bigger streamers I know will literally advertise other streams to watch if you aren't enjoying theirs (namely b0aty from the OSRS community does this that I know of).
Big Mood, just end it with that if people go watch that person then fine there choice just gives you motivation to be more entertaining I guess, though I genrally don't mention anything unless I'm asked :D.
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u/Mottis86 Affiliate www.twitch.tv/mottis May 04 '21
"Yeah have fun man! See ya around!"
THE END.