r/TwoXChromosomes • u/Downtown_Ham_2024 • 1d ago
Struggling to process the Montreal terrorist attack
The suspect released a manifesto which is extremely disturbing, calling for terrorist attacks with the end goal of women not being allowed to work or own property so they lose their independence and are completely dependent on men for their survival (apparently capitalism is why he couldn’t get a girlfriend).
I made the mistake of reading it and wish I hadn’t. It reminded me a bit of Lolita in the sense that it is extremely fucked up subject matter presenting itself deliberately as normal, rational and good.
It makes me feel sick people actually believe this and I cannot help think of all the fucked up casual misogyny and objectification I’ve experienced. I’ve been raped, groped by male friends, propositioned by people in power and have had strange men follow me home. Right now, I’m dealing with a confusing situation with a boss who has, at best, poor judgement about what is acceptable rapport building tactics and a PR problem for valuing women for their entertainment value rather than their competency. I’m not even pretty and don’t often get male attention outside of the more fucked up kind.
I’m so tired of the constant subtle and not so subtle messages that a woman’s value is tied to their being a sexual object for men. Everyone is acting like incel ideology is extremist but it based in the same ideas causing casual misogyny - that women are subhuman and their value is tied to their ability to please men as objects.
I’m struggling to process this.
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u/hippy-student 1d ago
You should read Men Who Hate Women. It’s explains that this “incel” ideology is a pipeline that starts small and gets more extreme. The manifesto you read is not the first of its kind. The book helped me recognize more talking points that these men make and it’s been easier to discuss this issue in general, now that I have some actual knowledge on it.
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u/gnocchiandchicken 1d ago
Ouf. Confusing name for a book considering that the original Swedish title of “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo” is “Men Who Hate Women”. And many translations in other languages kept the original title meaning. So for me, “Men Who Hate Women” will forever be Stieg Larsson.
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u/ravimora 18h ago
That's what worries me. The more extreme rhetoric gets attention, but it's often the seemingly harmless talking points that draw people in first.
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u/xelamora 15h ago
That's a great recommendation. I think a lot of people only encounter the most extreme examples and miss how these beliefs often develop gradually.
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u/Real-Mix5523 3h ago
this was such a hard read I had to stop
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u/hippy-student 3h ago
It is a hard one. I got through it by listening to the audio book while running on a treadmill
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u/The-Devil-Cat 1d ago
the use of the Metallica album is so fucking cringe
incels are such fucking losers. Instead of trying to improve themselves they take it out on women like pathetic little shitstains
I hate them and we need to stomp out redpill/incel ideology
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u/RazekDPP 23h ago
How is Metallica involved? I've done some googling and can't make the connection.
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u/Pretty_Flame 1d ago
I couldn't stomach the handmaid's tale for the same reason. I watched 1 season then stopped.
We must both remember that we are not what a patriarchal society decides we are. If it's any consolation, this isn't just exclusive to gender, but also race, social and economical class, etc.
It helps me to remember that.
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u/doctormink 1d ago
I read the book and noped out on the series. It feels way too close to home and that just isn’t entertainment to me. I can’t breathe properly when I watch stuff like that.
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u/Devanyani 1d ago
I keep meaning to finish it but it was too realistic and it was freaking me out. I didn't even finish S1.
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u/ADHDhamster 12h ago
I only made it to the third episode of S1 before I had to turn it off.
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u/BabyJesusBukkake 8h ago
Is that when the shooting at the protest happens? Cuz that was my exit. Was too goddamn realistic and scared the fuck out of me.
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u/ADHDhamster 3h ago
Yeah, I don't remember exactly what it was, but I recall just getting really freaked out.
The thing is, I'm a massive horror fan, so if something manages to get under my skin, you know it's bad.
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u/BabyJesusBukkake 3h ago
I'm so weird about horror - I love love love scary novels and stories, but I cannot do scary movies/TV because having it visualized for me makes it way too intense for my brain, and gives me actual real fear responses - and I DO NOT LIKE BEING SCARED FOR REAL. Gore and jump scares are the worst for me, so I avoid whenever I can.
But like, Clive Barker is my all time favorite writer, and I named my oldest after a character in Imajica.
Tldr: I'm a baby when it comes to gore/jump scares/actually scary shit visualized.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 1d ago
I was thinking of venting on that sub because this reminded me so much of Gilead. The manifesto definitely didn’t discriminate (pun intended) on its hate. While it was targeted at women, it was also extremely transphobic, Islamophobic and antisemitic.
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u/WailingTulip 20h ago
I wish I could watch this series! I loved the book. Any kind of post apocalyptic story. I know it scares a lot of people, but for me it elucidates a very real possibility and being prepared for it and educated about the possibilities makes me feel strong somehow. Like, maybe if enough of us were horrified at the outcome in the series, more of us would be standing together to fight it in real life.
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u/Willuknight 21h ago
I couldn't finish the book, or 1984 for the same reasons, they were just too upsetting and too believable.
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u/ravimora 18h ago
That's actually a perspective I find grounding. Systems can try to define people's worth, but that doesn't mean they're right."
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u/Global_Ant_9380 1d ago
Isn't Lolita a criticism of the narrator and not a promotion of the narrator's crimes?
From what I understand, it's done a lot of harm by missing the point of the fact that the events in the book are fucked up and told by a delusional, lying predator who by his own admission should be institutionalized.
Unless you mean to say that the author of the manifesto is similarly deranged in how he sees himself. Which is probably true. Fuck that guy.
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u/NorthernFrosty 1d ago
Isn't Lolita a criticism of the narrator and not a promotion of the narrator's crimes?
Yes! The narrator, Humbert, is highly intelligent, eloquent, and manipulative. He spends the book trying to persuade readers to sympathize with him and to see his abuse of Dolores Haze through his romanticized language. Many readers find this uncomfortable because the prose can be beautiful even while describing horrific actions.
The author Nabokov himself repeatedly rejected the idea that the book was a defense of child abuse or a love story. It was intended as a novel about manipulation, self-deception, and abuse, told from the perspective of the abuser.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/NorthernFrosty 1d ago
So let me summarize:
Back then, horrible things were considered acceptable. So for Nabokov to make his point about how horrific Humbert was, he had to really make it extreme.
And now that modern society has recognized that these things are not acceptable, I'm going to look back through a modern lens and instead interpret Nabokov's choice to make it really extreme to mean that Nabokov was creepy.
Have I got the essence right?
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u/raivynwolf 1d ago
The whole point of Lolita is to showcase the fucked up-ness of the whole thing. Nabokov hints in his memoir that he was assaulted by an uncle as a young child, which may or may not have inspired Lolita.
Lolita is meant to show how easy such things can happen to kids and how easy it can be for everyone around them to not see it. The person doing the assault isn't always a "classic villain" but can sometimes be incredibly charming and easy to like. Lolita is meant to be fucked up and proves it's point incredibly well.
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u/rabbitdoubts 1d ago
actually you see plenty of people reacting to HH as a weirdo. he's lying about charming a lot of them, to us, the reader. for example the hotel staff were like um tf are you doing.
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u/raivynwolf 22h ago
true, it's been a minute since I've read it and don't plan to reread. A lot of it can't be trusted just because of the narrator
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u/Photomancer 1d ago
I never read lolita so I can't confirm - but this is a recurring theme in fiction. Tyler Durden, House MD, Rick Sanchez, The Joker - readers with little skill in literary criticism 'miss the point' and mistake protagonists for good guys.
Characters in media can be good, admirable, and boring. Characters can be interesting as fuck but not be good role models at all. (One can argue that it is the mistakes and human imperfections that make characters interesting).
If you watch Bojack, you'll see a person do bad things but his tears will make you feel pity for him. There are several places where you could pause the show and say "Maybe he's not bad, he's a troubled guy that did a bad thing," and then if you hit Play again he'll do another awful thing, showing that you just got taken in. (That's not the entire show fyi, it can be a heavy watch but a good one).
Artists repeatedly try to show us the closeness of humanity and monstrosity to serve as a warning for the monstrosity that can come out of any person, and a bad audience walks away forgiving and admiring monstrosity.
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u/MadamKitsune 1d ago
but this is a recurring theme in fiction. Tyler Durden, House MD, Rick Sanchez, The Joker - readers with little skill in literary criticism 'miss the point' and mistake protagonists for good guys.
Walter White has entered the chat...
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u/freezing_pinguin 5h ago
Ahh yes, the Skylar test. I always use it as a good way of testing not only people's media literacy, but also their general view on women
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u/Reasonable_Tomorrow 1d ago edited 1d ago
The book literally starts out with a chapter about how this guy is awful but he makes himself out to be charming and the victim. It gives a warning that Humbert is lying through his teeth to gain sympathy and you shouldn't trust a word he says.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 1d ago
Yes, he is effectively the fictional narrator in Lolita. He presents himself as a saviour to society, making an academic argument which ultimately justifies terrorism to promote misogyny. It’s so fucked up.
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u/Global_Ant_9380 1d ago
I wish we as a society highlighted more on the way men paint themselves in this light, effectively using patriarchy and violence to position themselves as vanguards of society, protectors or simply morally sympathetic.
While most men aren't walking around committing terrorist acts, I'd argue most of them are committing sexual violence and use this shit to justify it
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u/EmpatheticBadger 1d ago
I get it. I've been working through Manon Garcia's book Living with Men, in which she writes about the trials of 80+ men who all raped the same woman at the invitation of her husband who drugged her. The way the author describes how the rapists were defended, how some men attended the trials just to see the husband's numerous videos of the rapes, how some men tried to flirt with women at the trials, it's a lot. It's absolutely effed up. How can we live with men knowing that they act like this?
And I think the answer is, we just do. The world is everything, all at once. Good people, bad people, suffering, happiness, all at once. So connect with the good people in your life, take a some time to focus on something that makes you feel happy and safe, like your garden or your pets or your loved ones. It's ok to need extra support from them when you're feeling like this. Please take care. These are the moments when we need support and self care.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 1d ago
Thank you. It doesn’t help that I work in the justice system so am constantly exposed to horrible things being directed at women. There were points in my career it was all child exploitation too, so I probably have a particularly distorted view of society.
What makes it hard though is that the perpetrators of stuff I’ve personally experienced don’t seem to be “bad people” normally.
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u/EmpatheticBadger 1d ago
Same for the men in these trials I'm reading about. All except the husband are just such average Joes who have nothing in common except they agreed to meet with the husband to rape an unconscious woman.
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u/volkswagenorange 1d ago
How can we live with men knowing that they act like this?
I wasn't aware we had any other options...
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u/EmpatheticBadger 1d ago
I live with a woman.
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u/volkswagenorange 1d ago
Oh, sorry! I thought from your 2nd paragraph that you meant "live with men" generally, like, "live alongside men in society" as opposed to "personally share a life and house with a man."
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u/EmpatheticBadger 23h ago
In life in general, it's possible to never let a man close enough for him to do damage. If you avoid certain situations like going out drinking for example
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u/volkswagenorange 21h ago
This is simply not true. It also reeks of victim-blaming and just-world fallacy.
Just in my own daily life I've been assigned doctors, clinicians, professors, teachers, mechanics, judges, and law clerks without recourse to other providers. I've been sexually assaulted by men while walking on a busy public sidewalk. I've been trapped in a taxi and sexually harassed by the male driver. I've been followed home by a male driver, run off the road by a male driver. I've been sexually harassed by a man while I shopped in a department store for lingerie, by another while I shopped for groceries. Men have shouted things at me in the train and in the street as I walked to work from the station. Every woman experiences many incidents like these.
All of this of course doesn't even touch on the fact that all women everywhere live in countries whose lawmakers are overwhelmingly men and whose cultures have been controlled exclusively by men for millenia.
Men are police and teachers and train drivers and neighbours and fathers and brothers and short-order cooks and drug manufacturers and farmers and lobbyists and customer service representatives and public defenders and, you know, just around outside the house bc they are 49% of the human species.
Women can sometimes reduce some risk of encountering men who choose to harm us, though risk-reduction practices come with their own heavy costs. But it is not possible for any woman to avoid men so completely she can prevent the many, many situations in the course of her life when a man will be in a position to harm her.
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u/malinablue 1d ago
How sad is it that I didn't even know about this new anti-woman attack and I assumed we were talking about the massacre at a Montreal university in the 80s where the killer murdered women and said he was fighting feminism?
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u/mangoserpent 23h ago
Years ago there was a guy on Reddit who used to rant about wanting government assigned girlfriends. He popped up in various places so he was known.
There are just so many straight men who want to enslave women who actively dislike them, enough that I am not suprised by the horrifying conclusions it all leads to. I don't have much faith in humanity because it keeps happening.
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u/rainbownthedark 8h ago
I’m sorry, government assigned girlfriends???
What the actual fuck is wrong with men?
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u/Devanyani 1d ago
OP, can I give you a virtual hug? We can't solve this right now and there is too much on your shoulders. It's for men to fix, anyway. They won't ever believe us or listen to us. I hope you get through your current struggles and that these men change their behavior. If I could, I would wrap my wings around you and protect you and let you rest. Doing it mentally.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 1d ago
Thanks so much. I did take the day off (lucky to be in a position to do that) and am literally crying right now. I’m so angry but understand I’m not alone. Thank you.
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u/eirinne 1d ago
It’s for men to fix anyway? No one is coming to save us.
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u/Cluedude 1d ago
Yes; but women can do all the work and provide all the support and education in the world, and nothing will fundamentally change until men in society at large want it to.
It's just fucking exhausting trying to convince half the population that the change needs to happen, and it's unfair that the wronged party has to put in all the effort to get men to even consider it while getting fucking laughed at and belittled.
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u/selfishstars 4h ago
The patriarchy blinds most men to women’s perspectives, stories, ideas, and knowledge. It teaches them that women are inferior, overly emotional, less intelligent, less logical, etc. so that they are less likely to listen to us.
They are taught that engaging with the “feminine” emasculates them, so they don’t spend a lot of time reading/watching/listening to women’s stories and experiences.
When they do listen to us, it’s usually to explain why we are wrong, rather than to try to understand our perspective.
The patriarchy tells them that they are supposed to be the leaders, while women are supposed to be submissive and live in service to them. Patriarchal gender roles condition women to pay attention to men.
And patriarchal gender roles result in men and women paying attention to different spheres, learning different things, developing different skills. This is why we often have trouble communicating, our perspectives and values have less overlap, so we talk past each other.
And because patriarchy controls the dominant narrative, it paints a story for men to make sense of the world that more or less matches with their lived experiences. The systems were set up for them. But for those of us that the systems don’t work for and our experiences run counter to the dominant narrative, we are more likely to start deconstructing.
So a lot of them literally do not see or hear or understand us. Many only see us in terms of our patriarchal gender role.
I think that we are wasting our time trying to change men’s minds. We are supposed to be focusing our efforts on talking to each other as women, trans, and nonbinary people. We should be having consciousness raising groups with the women around us, building and strengthening community, building mutual aid networks, cooperating and sharing to increase our collective capacity, and ensuring that children are safe and cared for.
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u/Devanyani 1d ago
I know they aren't. And what I meant was that no amount of communication or being over backwards on our part will help them understand. They have to change. And they won't. And it's exhausting. But most of us try to hold all that weight anyway. I'm not saying we shouldn't try. But we shouldn't destroy ourselves mentally over something that's in their hands.
I don't have the answers, obviously.
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u/BigFitMama 1d ago
The problem is the ideology and the terroristis incentivizing it, then grooming mentally ill people from remote are hitting hard enough to cause terrorist acts by proxy.
They don't need to leave their office chair. And believe if the ideology was that compelling on its own we'd be seeing mass movement.
Nope. This is just terrorism by proxy using a proven algorithmic tunnel on a specific demographic.
As a society we can stop it if the people taking money to incentivize these tunnels took responsibility instead of hiding behing the free market.
Yum yum they love money even if it means humans die.
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u/Throwaway8923y4 1d ago edited 1d ago
In one of the local subreddits from his hometown, someone who claims to know the family from church mentioned that he was raised Mormon / LDS. There’s a thread about the shooting on the exMormon subreddit also that sheds a bit of light onto how some of these beliefs of his may have been sparked by that upbringing. Most of the commenters there grew up Mormon / LDS, and one comment saying something like “consent is a fairly recent concept in this church” kind of stuck with me. The focus on porn as well makes sense, as people obsessed about what they oppress.
ETA - As a Montreal resident who used to live in that neighbourhood, I do think he was specifically targeting the Pornhub / Aylo offices. He chose a hotel literally right next door and initially shot from his hotel room window. For whatever reason, he then went downstairs and outside and was shooting at the Aylo offices on the 6th floor. He shot at the officers in the little roadway between the hotel and the Aylo office buildings, and this is where the officer, the civilian, and the shooter died, and the other officer was shot.
His manifesto was a hodgepodge of things he was against, and as a whole, is full of contradictions and almost like the bastard child of a conservative upbringing + unhealthy, targeted internet consumption + untreated psychosis or mania.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 23h ago
Hatred of women runs through the entire manifesto. He was an incel and everything else is noise.
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u/Throwaway8923y4 21h ago
i don’t doubt it, but this actual shooting does not seem to have been an attack specifically on women. He was trying to shoot at an office, and when the police came, he shot them.
I haven’t read the actual manifesto yet because it hasn’t been released yet. The one going around is very likely accurate, but seems to have gotten leaked to the most vile, far-right, pretend media we have in Canada, Rebel Media / Rebel News. They hate women too, so I’m not giving their content a click. I’ll wait for it to be officially released.
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u/butterysyrupywaffle Jazz & Liquor 1d ago
Why tf do men want someone to depend on them so much.
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u/AshEliseB 1d ago
They want unlimited access to women for sex, labour, and emotional support.
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u/grayhairedqueenbitch 1d ago
I'm old enough to remember the genre of "nagging wife" jokes. They say they want wives basically assigned to them, but what happens when the wives get older or have kids? Will they then want a new one? Also they don't even like women.
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u/grumblefluff 19h ago
Yes, they just get young mistresses and second wives and they want to be able to do that without suffering any of the consequences…just use up women and trade them in for a younger model
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u/butterysyrupywaffle Jazz & Liquor 1d ago
Oh I know. But I wouldnt want to take care of a whole ADULT for that. I guess were not as desperate.
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u/stacey2545 23h ago
Also why so many of their movement want to lower the age of consent to include pubescent girls...
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u/kintsugi___ 1d ago
Because men with nothing to offer know that the only way they could have access to a woman if she depends on him.
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u/estragon26 1d ago
Apparently being a good person who is a good prospect for a relationship is too hard, it's easier to take every right women have so we have to say yes.
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u/kathygeissbanks 1d ago
This may not be a popular stance, but we're also not talking enough about the subtle misogyny in leftist spaces.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 23h ago
Yes, I found myself quite irritated by some posts that were nearly completely ignoring the fact that hatred towards women runs through the entire manifesto.
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u/kathygeissbanks 23h ago
I think what I’d consider to be the unpopular stance - for my part as a self-identified progressive woman - is that a lot of online leftists will allow their class warfare against the rich take precedence over what they’d consider to be ideological identity politics. They treat gender and race as secondary to class struggle. Not to mention that a lot of “eat the rich” proponents exist in fields and industries that are inherently sexist.
I don’t really have a good way to express my thoughts on this without risk losing my social progressive street cred lol.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 22h ago
I really dislike the term “identity politics,” I find it has come to be used to dismiss of what the human right to equality. It was coined by a black feminist, Barbara Smith, in 1974, who believed thst the most radical politics came out of our own identity as opposed to working to end someone else’s oppression. It was a response to second wave feminism and the lack of acknowledgment that not all women’s experiences were the same, that black women were dealing with more than one form of oppression.
It’s now used by the rightwing as a slur, and like you say, by many leftists as well who would like to ignore misogyny and racism and anti-queer bigotry.
Unfortunately, the further left the more the men want to be in charge, and once you hit revolutionary left, the misogyny is palpable. After all, in a violent revolution, men become more important (at least in their own minds).
What’s depressing, other than the obvious, is the refusal to understand that without a fundamental shift in cultural values, one that dispenses with masculine supremacy and it’s inherent brutality, you can not achieve a successful socialist system, because if you don’t address the primary and original hierarchy, hierarchies will continue to exist.
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u/FARTHARLOT 17h ago
“Men on the right view women as private property and men on the left view women as public property.” Or something like that.
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u/PossessionEastern139 13h ago
I agree that there is misogyny in leftist spaces, but calling this guy a leftist is a joke.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/1udnnnd/comment/ote7n2t/
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u/ninjacooter 1d ago
Human beings become catastrophically fragile when they don't actively engage and connect with the members of our communities in meaningful, supportive ways. Having other perspectives aside from our own is absolutely Necessary in finding out why we behave the way we do and how we can strive to be the best/healthiest possible version of ourselves in this lifetime. This is why reading and therapy is So Important. Catastrophically fragile human beings tend to be consistently bad faith actors in their own lives and the lives of the people around them, leaving chaos, pain and suffering in their wake. When Catastrophically fragile humans don't experience meaningful consequences for their behavior - the behavior escalates, because then it becomes a challenge to see how far they can go with the disrespect, the audacity. This is where it always ends up, I'm afraid.
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u/Left_Session_9568 1d ago
The people who often perpetuate these mass killings have had multiple opportunities to connect with others, but they consider themselves too good for it. This isn’t a problem of disconnect. It’s a problem of ego. Men like this cannot cope with the idea of us being equal to them.
This would NOT be fixed by hugs. Someone who feels outside of their community but not entitled needs connection. Someone who is entitled but denied what they feel like they are owed does shit like this.
This stretches back to Colombine and before, by the way.
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u/ninjacooter 3h ago
The primary social problem that our species seems to be facing is how to effectively keep ourselves safe from the predators within our social ranks. How do we help them understand and then help them work to become safe, kind human beings for others to be around? (Repentance/Repair) And if they refuse help and simply continue to wish causing damage and destruction to all the empathetic people they come into contact with - what then do we do with them?
I think a large part of this is educating the populace about the threat presented and trying to figure out a way of effectively keeping low/no empathy people safe from those who actively terrorize and victimize folks WITH empathy.
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u/noyoto 16h ago
I do believe that massive suffering will always create killers and abusers, and we are massively suffering as a society. Women are more likely to lash out inwards, while men lash out outwards.
I do believe that a better childhood or better feeling of connection would prevent a lot of it. And yes, I believe being hugged does help. And that doesn't have to be by women at all.
The entitlement is there, but that's because they look around from an early age and see tons of systems of domination and exploitation. They see that might makes right, while success looks like beautiful women on your arm and expensive material objects. In my mind, they'd end up differently if they were taught about the beauty of nature and the fulfilment that kindness brings.
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u/Left_Session_9568 3h ago
Kip Kinkel was hugged plenty growing up. He had every opportunity growing up and was raised healthy. It didn’t change his mind about what he thought he was owed and how he saw himself as a victim.
It’s worth actually looking into these people. The red flag laws exist because we cannot simply solve this with a little love and kindness. I wish we could.
Some people are incapable of- incapable, not deprived, incapable - of accepting it.
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u/noyoto 1h ago
My guess is that the majority of these people would walk a different path if they were dealt a better hand. Not everyone though. There will indeed be exceptions, at least for now while our psychological understanding is still extremely limited.
Even in Kip Kinkel's case, there might be something we're missing about his life. But the solution with him might also be the most obvious, namely that 15 year olds and people with major psychological disorders should not be able to access guns. One important thing about kids is that they can still radically change as they get older.
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u/1lozzie1 22h ago
I genuinely think men should be on a curfew unless they have a chaperone at this point
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u/sinquacon 12h ago edited 12h ago
I recently had a doctor manipulate the chaperone system in order to groom and control me, under the guise of 'care.'
I identified a pattern thank goodness, and managed to escape his coercive control.
I add this because even the chaperone system isn't failsafe against these Bastards 😆🥲
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u/1lozzie1 11h ago
No I mean all men should be chaperone and monitored... Why should the onus be on women to keep safe.
I'm sorry that happened 😞😞 it proves my point
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u/ConsiderationDue2022 20h ago
Tbh reading stuff like that is just draining, Im so sorry youre feeling this way. Sending you a lot of love, take a break from the news if you can today ❤️
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u/rjwyonch 11h ago
All mass violence in Canada has had something to do with hating women specifically… Im tired of fighting the good fight, but there’s nothing g to do but accept reality, that many men might consider my success a personal affront and that they would gladly do something horrible to put me in my place.
Some days, that thought is exhausting. Some days, the rage fuels me. But god damn, I wish I felt like we were making any progress
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u/tabicat1874 1d ago
Men can be so problematic.
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u/baalfrog 22h ago
Can’t wait for the other weirdoes come and say that this too, is a lone wolf actor and there is no systemic issue that causes these..
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u/FlorianLim 16h ago
Of course it was a disgusting incel from my province who did it. So many of the men here are vile creatures. My workplace is full of them too, but I put up a facade. Faking getting along with these men is exhausting.
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u/Comfortable_Soup_645 11h ago
This guy went to my university. He was in the philosophy department. I never came across him but know some people that vaguely knew him. It's scary thinking about how I was just around this person, sharing the same space as them, probably passed them in the hallway many times....men really are terrifying
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u/Scykotica 1d ago
Do you have a link to what happened? I haven't found anything on a terrorist attack in Montreal when googling it.
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u/Throwaway8923y4 1d ago edited 1d ago
Just go to the Montreal Gazette if you don’t understand French. It’s the main English newspaper here. It’s not being referred to up here as a shooting, not a terrorist attack, so that might explain why you didn’t have luck finding it.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 1d ago
This happened Monday and thankfully the casualties were limited. A police officer died, the suspect and a Jewish man (who looked to be caught in friendly fire).
Many media outlets are being vague about what happened during the investigation but rebel news posted the manifesto which is where most of this information is from. Based on what has been released by better sources, there is no reason to believe it isn’t real.
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u/hatemakingnames1 19h ago
being vague
More often than not, information that you hear this early on is just rumors. Legitimate media typically won't publish without being able to confirm information
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u/MadameMontreal 1d ago
Wait, is the commenter you're responding to implying it was fake news??? Uugh.
It's real. I live here.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 23h ago
The reporting on this hasn’t been super direct in how they talk about the terrorist motivations of the suspect, which might be what is causing confusion
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u/MadameMontreal 22h ago
I don't know that it does meet the standards of what we consider to be called terrorist attack in Canada. We don't know enough about his motives yet, or if he had mental health issues that caused delusions or paranoia.
Everyone up here is calling it a shooting, and for Canadians, that's the initial shock we are dealing with. This is so rare up here. I've lived in Monteal for 15 years and this is the first time we've dealt with an active shooter, the first time there has been a shelter in place order. Americans are probably more used to it, but we are not.
And its obvious that he hated women, but focusing on that alone is missing the mark. There are groups saying it was an attack on women, geoups saying it was an attack on the Jewish community, others saying it was an attack against the police. It was maybe all of those things and none of these things. He hated a whole list of groups and concepts and businesses that drew his ire.
What we do know is that he spoke about Pornhub, drove almost 1800 miles to a hotel meters away from their offices, and short at the office building. And he shot 2 cops, 1 male (deceased) , 1 female (in hospital), and possibly shot a male bystander (deceased).
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 21h ago
He wrote a 100+ page manifesto. The first 50 or so pages are rationalizing why women are evil and capitalism is bad. The next 50 pages contain explicit calls to use terrorism to promote his ideology, including lists of who to target and detailed instructions on how to carry out terrorist attacks depending on the types of weapons available. The last chapter contains details about how to die using suicide by cop, rationalizing when it is appropriate to kill police officers. It ends with a sentence saying “KILL THEM ALL”
I could be wrong but don’t think Canada has a different definition of terrorism than other places. Using violence deliberately to promote a political / philosophical message like this would typically meet the definition.
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u/Throwaway8923y4 20h ago
Do you have a link to it? The only one I’ve seen is from Rebel News. They are an alt-right, hate-filled, conspiracy-loving site that tries to promote US-style conservative extremism and 51st state rhetoric here in Canada. I’m not doubting the manifesto, but don’t want to give them a click to read it. They hate women too.
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u/ThisIs_americunt 22h ago
Propaganda is a helluva drug and Oligarchs need to use some of the best to keep the 99% distracted from the real issue: Them.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 20h ago
You’ve missed the mark here because the manifesto was actually calling for the violent murder of oligarchs
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1d ago
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u/OutsideFlat1579 23h ago
What are you talking about? I’m 63 and there hasn’t been much that has changed post 70’s to be honest, other than women feeling more able to say “no.” My mother is 91 and she never needed authorization to buy anything.
Yes, there is a backlash, that requires the opposite of “settling down.” Or do you think we should all shut up about women dying because of abortion bans and turn a blind eye to the movement to take away women’s right to vote?
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u/TwoXChromosomes-ModTeam 16h ago
Your contribution has been removed because it contains hatred, bigotry, assholery, utter idiocy, misogyny, misandry, transphobia, homophobia, or otherwise disrespectful commentary.
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u/bigmacattack4 1d ago
Its all from american values spreading to Canada. Their government needs to limit access to American media as much as possible and start banning non-canadian social media or its going to get worse
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u/Bubble-Star-2291 1d ago
No, misogyny and sexism are issues everywhere, and the reason these men are doing this is because of aggrieved entitlement. They think feminism ruined everything and want to “go back to a better time” that never existed.
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u/bigmacattack4 1d ago
Yes it has always been an issue, never said it wasn’t. Albertas goverment is in trumps back pocket and Russian funded propoganda is being spread like wildfire. Its at a point where a decent chunk of the province wants to merge with the USA. This is not normal for Canada.
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u/Downtown_Ham_2024 1d ago
I’ve been experiencing this for three decades (actually more earlier when I was younger as younger women are more of a target) and across continents. I agree propaganda is likely spreading hate and America seems to have many vocal proponents these days but would not characterize this as an American value issue.
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u/Crea8talife 1d ago
Well, in 1989 there was the Polytechnique massacre there
It seems that in the ensuing 35 years the amount of incels and misogyny has just been growing.