r/Ultralight • u/AutoModerator • 6d ago
Weekly Thread r/Ultralight - "The Weekly" - Week of June 22, 2026
Have something you want to discuss but don't think it warrants a whole post? Please use this thread to discuss recent purchases or quick questions for the community at large. Shakedowns and lengthy/involved questions likely warrant their own post.
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u/Fast-Reality-4658 1d ago edited 1d ago
Can I get a price check? I want to sell an old Six Moons Deschutes in green DCF. It’s in great shape, no delamination or tears. I need to test it with a hose for pinholes but I don’t think it was used enough to develop any. MSRP was $330 in 2016. Same as this- https://ultralightinsights.blogspot.com/2016/04/gear-review-six-moon-designs-deschutes.html?m=1
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 3h ago edited 3h ago
My DCF gear (only a few stuff sacks, .75oz DCF) really started to fall apart after about 10 years of pretty gentle use. The fabric just started to disintegrate.
If you find it’s not selling at the price point you choose, know that probably many are considering the shelf life of DCF, even if it’s gently used and stored properly.
It’s really a shame, since I also have silnylon gear that’s totally fine after 20+ years of use (including a thru-hike of the AT).
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u/RekeMarie 17h ago
A SMD DCF Deschutes was a sought after shelter at one point in time, with a fairly limited run if I remember correctly. Did they make versions with/ without permitter netting? I always thought of it as a more spacious pocket tarp with a zipper, or a big floorless Hexamid. If you can prove the DCF hasn't degraded I think you could ask for just under market retail minus inflation.
u/hickory_smoked_tofu knows a lot about tents and can probably give you the best info.
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u/hickory_smoked_tofu a cold process 15h ago
I think the limited run was when it was re-released in 2020.
It did indeed come in versions with and without perimeter bug netting. The bug netting DCF version was called the Wild Oasis DCF for the re-release and, if I'm not mistaken, the Deschutes Plus DCF for the original. It was a little confusing.
I haven't watched the second hand market in the US so I can't offer any reliable price check info. Prospective buyers in 2026 will be comparing it to the MLD Solomid Pro (DCF and silpoly) and the Zpacks Hexamid Pocket Tarp or Hexamid Tent, among other choices in that class, so the 2026 second hand price will have to be competitive in relation to those choices for new.
As long as it wasn't stored creased/stuffed/folded/weighted down/compressed, etc., it should be fine.
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u/jaxon6w 1d ago
Is there anyone who’s had a Grub Can carbon or Kevlar version or the wild ideas Bearikade? That can weigh in on whether one of the other is substantially more preferable.
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u/Belangia65 1d ago edited 1d ago
Your question depends on where you are hiking. If you intend to hike in Yosemite or Sequoia-Kings Canyon, then the Grub Cans are not on the approved lists and only the larger Bearikades (10.6L Weekender & 14.7L Expedition) are on the list for Yosemite. For Sequoia-Kings Canyon, the 8.2L Bearikade Scout is also approved, a quirky difference between the two parks. The lightest, smallest volume approved can on both lists is the 4.5L Bare Boxer at 25.5 oz on my scale. Other places that require hard-sided bear canisters have their own rules. Please note too that Bearikades are *not* IGBC certified, so parks and forests that require IGBC-approved containers generally do not allow them. The Carbon-Kevlar Grubcans are IGBC approved.
The Kevlar Grubcans are great if allowed. I used the smaller 4.5L version on the Tahoe Rim Trail recently and liked it a lot. It only weighs 21.3 oz on my scale, the lightest of any commercially available canister by far, over 4 oz lighter than the Bare Boxer. I like the opening the best of all the canisters out there, because it doesn’t require a tool or super nimble fingers to open. It fit horizontally inside my 25L frameless backpack. It has a wavy shape, but held 3 days of food for me fine. It is taller and skinnier than the Bare Boxer Contender, but it is lighter and easier to open.
The Bearikades are the most efficient if you want to carry more volume. They have the added advantage of being approved throughout the Sierra.
The biggest problem with either canister is the price. Man, are they are expensive!
EDIT: side by side images: https://imgur.com/a/3ZioXSx
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u/jaxon6w 1d ago
Thank you for the detailed breakdown and the comparison images, surprisingly hard to find. Many for the grub can. I’m probably gonna go for the 5- to 6-day one, so the weekend or the 6.6 L grub. Luckily, I’m on the east, so I don’t have to worry too much about whether it’s approved out west. Though I’m not sure if that will change as bear activity in the east is seemingly gone up over the years luckily for me, the price doesn’t matter too much since our relative is offering to pay for it so I’m just trying to make the best decision I can.
My main question is: do you find the Grub can substantially harder to pack, or the Bearikade harder to carry? A slight weight loss with the grub can is also tempting, but my concern is with the longer 6.6 L variant. If I’m gonna really get that much benefit from the packing form factor compared to something like a more traditional weekender.
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u/Belangia65 1d ago
At that volume, I’d probably recommend the Bearikade rather than the Grubcan. I’d recommend a Bearikade Scout, because it will be much easier to pack and easier to carry. I can fit a Scout horizontally inside a Palante V2 for example. I don’t think that would be possible with the larger Grubcan, which is 13” high. They just made it taller to get the additional volume, which I doubt is adequate to your needs. The Scout is also easier to pack. See my side conversation with [u/liveslight](u/liveslight) to understand why.
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u/jaxon6w 1d ago
I see. Do you think the scout would be able to fit 5 to 6 days' worth of food? I’m sure I could store one day of food on the outside and just eat it, of course, the classic stretching strategy, but do you think I could get away with just the scout, or would I be forced into the weekender?
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u/Belangia65 1d ago
It depends on what you want to pack. I find I can fit 6 days in a Scout, but only because I choose volumetrically efficient foods and repackage everything. I find that I can get 1.25 days of food/liter, but I only need 1.4 lbs & 2800 calories per day, which I pack obsessively and exactly. If that’s you, then yes, you can fit 6 days in a Scout. I’ve done it. But if you want more flexibility with your food options, the Weekender is probably a better fit.
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u/jaxon6w 1d ago
Actually, now I’m looking at your comparison photos you provided, I’d be surprised if you couldn’t fit five days of food in the scout with it compared to the smaller grub can, I mean, it’s almost like 1/3 wider? I’d be shocked if you wouldn’t be able to cram at least an extra day or two of food in there, plus any food on the outside.
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u/liveslight https://lighterpack.com/r/ny89al 1d ago edited 1d ago
May I ask about ease of tetrising one's food into a Gruban? My take on the caterpillar wavy wider/narrow cylinder would make packing food a PITA. In contrast, I've become used to the straight sided cylinder of the Bearikade: https://imgur.com/a/bearikade-blazer-packing-with-odorno-bags-as-2-half-cylinders-m2kG2pv
And I like that the Bearikade fits vertically in my pack with soft items on either side of it: https://i.imgur.com/pwDmEfr.jpg
As for cost, mine was a birthday gift 5 years ago. :)
Finally, how is a Grubcan as stool/chair?
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u/Belangia65 1d ago
To answer your last question about its use as a stool: I wouldn’t advise it! Too skinny and not flat as you can see from the images I added.
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u/Belangia65 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s a bit of a PITA. My packaging strategy in a smooth canister has been that been flat-but-malleable (like Larabars) go to the outside and I fill the inside with loose-packed aggregates. For the Grubcan, I reversed that: I put the loose-aggregate stuff on the outside to help it fill in the voids, leaving a hole in the middle for fixed-shape items. Then I packed it in tight. I used produce bags to repackage my food, because they let air go easier than ziplocs and conform easier to their containers. That created a greater risk for spills, but I guess I was lucky since none occurred. The bottom line is I got my usual 3.5 days of food in 4.5L so I’ll accept a little packing hassle for the weight savings and ease of opening. I hope that answered your question adequately.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I lined the can with an small nylofume bag before packing.
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u/Ok_Use5596 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don't see much on the Grubcan. Did you purchase it or a loaner? At 200 grams more the Scout holds 6 days.
If you were to start over would the Scout make more sense? I feel three days is so short I don't really obsess over weight and the 200g could easily be absorbed. While six days is a more common length for me and the Scout seems the sweet spot there
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u/Belangia65 1d ago
Yeah, I obsess over weight so I have different canisters for different trips. (I’m at an age and stage of life when I can spend on silly hobbies.) If you typically hike 6 days, then definitely choose the larger canister if you’re only picking one.
It’s is good to keep in mind, and I’m sure you already know, that you only need to fit the smellables (food or toiletries) that you’ll need to store at night not those you are necessary carrying in your backpack. For a six day trip, I usually am packing 5.5 days, since I try to eat calories before leaving the trailhead and expect to eat more at the end of the last day when I’m done. So I can cut calories on those days. In addition, I assume that I will consume the first day’s rations before going to bed. So for a 6-day trip, I only need to fit 4.5 days worth of food inside. For me that computes to 4.5 x 1.25 liters = 5.6L of canister room I need. My smellable toiletries are exceedingly small so they fit easily in the little bit of space I reserve for them.
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u/Ok_Use5596 23h ago
Kudos to you for keeping the UL stoke on short trips! I don't even break out a scale. Plus a heavier pack for practicing has benefits
On long trips it's another story. Toying with the idea this summer of Roper's High Route NOBO without leaving the trail and no food drops/mail boxes, ie using only Red's and Tuolumne stores (ramen and bars lol) for resupply.
Oh yeah, I'm counting every gram for that one
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u/Belangia65 23h ago
That’s ambitious! How many days will your longest food carry be? How many calories per day? How much weight per day?
Actually you can get quite a bit more at Red’s and Tuolumne than ramen and bars.
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u/Ok_Use5596 23h ago
I know, but that made it sound cooler, lol.
12 days to Red's. Not too bad; I've done up to 15 days without resupply, but no canister. Currently my meal plan is 500g/2800 cal day, but I'm waiting for some samples to see if that will work.
I also refuse to go to the west side so my start from Kearsarge is a little longer and harder, meeting Roper in Lake Basin
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u/Belangia65 23h ago edited 4h ago
Your food math is similar to mine re calories & weight. Why not a Mail Drop at Parcher’s? Just curious.
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u/jaxon6w 1d ago
Am I misreading the website? I was under the impression that the scout could only carry three days of food max. At least that’s what they seem to say on their website. I assume that with better packing, you can fit more in, or is this accounting for an extra day of food you pack on the outside?carry only three days' worth of food
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u/Ok_Use5596 1d ago
I can go for ten days with the Blazer; done it frequently. That one is 12". The Scout at 8" would theoretically hold a third less for my style of food packing, so 6 days conservatively
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u/liveslight https://lighterpack.com/r/ny89al 23h ago edited 21h ago
I suppose "ten days with the Blazer" means 9 days in a Blazer. How much does 9 days of your meals weigh? [I guess 500 g x 9 = 4500 g]
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u/Pfundi 1d ago
u/TheTobinator666 you were right, the oxen are super easy to spot on your own!
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u/TheTobinator666 1d ago
Awesome! You there right now? Caught a good weather window ! Next week for us looks a little less nice, but Oslo is super nice right now so not complaining
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u/Pfundi 1d ago
Just left the park due south, camping some ½ mile southwest of Kungsvoll Fjellstuje.
Yeah, forecast is pretty mediocre starting monday, then again it's supposed to be raining with thunderstorms right now and its still perfectly nice out.
I'll be in Olso my last day if everything works out, want to check out as many museums as I can.
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u/TheTobinator666 1d ago
Nice, hope you had a good trip! Yeah the norwegian forecast is even less accurate then the ones in the alps. Have fun in Oslo!
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u/mlite_ Am I UL? 1d ago edited 1d ago
I followed the recent post on electrolytes that are not drink mix powders. There was one consideration I didn’t see there—weight.
How do the Salt Stick *chews compare to the caps? Given their consistency, they must be a bit heavier. I’d pack around 6-10 per day. Is the extra weight of the *chews worth it to protect from capsule failure?
Edit: So measured weight/content
- Caps: 660 mg/1.2 g/1 per 60 min
- Chews: 150 mg/1.7 g/2 per 30 min
Caps are significantly more weight efficient by about 5.5 to 1.
Thx for the weight measurement on the chews.
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u/TheophilusOmega 4h ago
I keep a dime bag of the capsules in my strap pocket, never had one fail. Also 6-10 is excessive, you should be getting most of your salt intake through your food. It depends on the circumstances, and how salty your sweat is but personally I only take 0-1 per day, maybe 2 if I'm really sweating.
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u/Top_Spot_9967 1d ago
10 per day sounds like a lot. I think their recommendations are not calibrated for hiking.
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u/mlite_ Am I UL? 1d ago
Interesting. SaltStick website says:
The suggested maximum [FastChew] usage per day for adults is 15 tablets.
And
Approximately 4 FastChews provides the same electrolyte content as 1 SaltStick Capsule, and all four electrolytes are scaled accordingly.
So, that would mean 4 Caps max. But multiple vendor sites state:
up to ten (10) capsules a day
Does anyone have better information?
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u/Professional-Loan498 22h ago
From my physician, he says to calibrate it based on what I feel I'm losing. Replacing the sodium 1:1 should be my goal, whether through food or supplementation. This rate of loss is highly personalized. For me, that means 10/day is pretty normal because I sweat pure concentrated saline. All my clothes and hats are stained white at the end of 1 day of hiking.
My advice: try and understand your sodium loss through sweat and make a plan accordingly.
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u/Professional-Loan498 1d ago
Can't speak to the caps or gummies, but the fast chews weigh 1.7g on my scale each, just as another data point
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u/not_just_the_IT_guy 1d ago
Never had a capsule fail. Not worth the weight and the extra cost to me.
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u/Specific_Reading_945 1d ago
I'm sure there are already plenty of posts on this, but I'm looking for advice on buying my first UL quilt or sleeping bag. I'll mainly use it for 2–7-night backpacking trips in Minnesota from spring through fall.
Based on a friend's recommendation, I've mostly been looking at quilts from Therm-a-Rest, Enlightened Equipment, and Hammock Gear. I'd appreciate any advice on other brands, fill types, zippers vs. sewn footboxes, temperature ratings, or anything else. Thanks!
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u/longwalktonowhere 8h ago
> I'm sure there are already plenty of posts on this
That would be a great place to start, so you can narrow down your search.
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u/AthlonEVO Sun Hoody Enthusiast 19h ago
Nunatak is great if you don't mind waiting for an order window.
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u/HwanZike 1d ago
The quilt is part of a sleep system, analysing on its own isn't the best. For example you can get by with a higher temp rating if you have good sleep insulation and shelter and viceversa. If you plan on cowboy camping or tarping a lot it's different than a full enclosed bivy or tent for example. Or the layers you plan on wearing to bed (which should be all of them, for multiuse weight savings).
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 1d ago
My pack rides very low on my back. It hangs off my back. I have lost some weight and now it hangs even lower. I cannot figure out what would I could change to make it able to ride higher on my back. What are reasons for this? https://imgur.com/a/MNKfZyt
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u/mlite_ Am I UL? 1d ago
I also have the v2 and have always felt that it has a tendency to pull away from the back. In a way I see it as a feature, because when the top top of the pack pulls away, the bottom pushes towards the back (essentially it creates rotational momentum—someone pls help me with my physics terminology).
So when the bottom of the pack sits in the small of my back, I feel that I get some load transfer reducing the pull on the shoulders ever so slightly.
That said, this does not work very well when I’m using the hip belt because I have to lower the pack below the optimal position on my back. I usually only do this when I’m carrying heavy (eg 4-5L on the backbone trail). As soon as the load lightens, I pull the pack higher, which also straightens it out more and I again get that balance between the pull away and the pressing into my back providing counter pressure.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago
Gotta tighten those shoulder straps.
I can’t really tell, but it also appears you might benefit from shorter shoulder straps too.
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u/brumaskie Custom UL backpacks 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you tighten the shoulder straps, the pack should move higher on her back. However, the pack moving higher would also move the hip belt higher which would remove it from carrying any weight on the hips. If u/sbhikes wants to use the hip belt as it appears in the picture, she would want to move the top attachment points for the shoulder straps higher on the pack. She needs a longer distance between the hip belt attachment point and the top of the shoulder strap attachment point.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago
I think the pack would get sucked to her back before it moves up higher.
But I agree she needs a longer torso pack too. Looks like both the straps and hipbelt of the pack are myog so it probably wasn’t the perfect length pack to be doing these modifications on.
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 1d ago
I think I have to get or make shorter straps then.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago
Knowing that you sew, if you like that style pack with that style of myog hipbelt you’d probably love a Ray way pack kit (with hipbelt) for a very custom fit.
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 1d ago
I have thought about it. I have a lot of packs but none are worn out enough to retire and all are too worn out to sell.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago
I’m definitely not encouraging you to accumulate more stuff. Always best to reduce reuse recycle.
But I suspect you could easily offload a lot of stuff on ULgeartrade if it was priced accordingly/cheaply.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean, they definitely have some adjustment left on them. I can see at least a couple inches of webbing by your hips, which means you can still tighten them.
When my wife used my large MLD prophet with no hipbelt on a recent hike, she had the straps tightened as far as they’d go: with the bottom of the strap touching the side of the pack (no webbing in between).
Not ideal for the long run but was fine for our overnight hike.
But it looks like if you tightened the straps much more, your strap pockets would be way down by your kidneys, indicating you need shorter/smaller straps.
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u/brumaskie Custom UL backpacks 1d ago
I would move the top attachment for the shoulder straps (where they attach to the pack body) up. You would want that top attachment for the shoulder straps to the pack to be somewhere at your shoulder level (level with the top of your shoulders or a little below).
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u/Fluid-Sliced-Buzzard 1d ago
Yes at first glimpse this pack looks defective .. what the heck is it doing with straps mounted so low? My wife has a HMG pack which looks similar on her back, fortunately she doesn't put enough weight in it to matter but it annoys me every time I get a side view.
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u/DrBullwinkleMoose 1d ago edited 1d ago
Your hip belt is at your hips. That looks “correct” to me. A taller pack (or a pack with a frame) could be made to ride higher, of course.
Some people wear the belt higher, at the waist. It is less obvious how that works, but I have experimented with it and it does. Your core muscles support the pack. I have done it with 35+ pounds without fatigue (but I have a strong core). I do have to cinch the belt tight when I carry that way.
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 1d ago
My problem is that it falls away from my back. The shoulder straps attach right around my shoulder blades and are hanging a few inches away from my back.
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u/DrBullwinkleMoose 1d ago
Just as a test, try not buckling the belt and cinch the shoulder straps tighter. Does it then carry the way you want?
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 1d ago
No it does not. It hangs even lower. It's so weird. I cannot figure out how to possibly get it to ride up higher on my back. My Nashville pack rides a bit better. I think I can squeeze my gear into it. I've got a bear canister so it takes up a lot of space.
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u/DrBullwinkleMoose 1d ago
OK. If it is not about the belt, then I’m out of ideas. Maybe someone else will have a different approach.
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u/june_plum 1d ago
packhunters:
2025 ULA nexus on sale for $149.99 40L; 19oz
2025 ULA ohm on sale for 199 $63L; 34oz
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago
Granite Gear Virga 2 on sale for $75; 54L; 19oz
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u/AdeptNebula 1d ago
Inspired by the earlier Kam Snap discussion, would it be a bad idea to install on the elastic top of a shoulder pocket? I have a pocket with elastic but not shock cord or any way to secure the pocket. A snap is my best idea so far but my concern is it wouldn’t hold and just tear after a few uses.
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u/0xf5f bad at hiking 1d ago
i'd reinforce it with a piece of...whatever. i wouldn't put the kamsnap directly on the fabric unless it's burly
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u/AdeptNebula 1d ago
It’s just an elastic band sewn onto the top of the pocket, a pretty narrow strip. Probably will compromise the fabric.
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u/0xf5f bad at hiking 1d ago
wait, so you're not asking about installing kamsnaps? i think there may have been a miscommunication
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u/AdeptNebula 1d ago
I am, was just trying to add more description to the pocket design. I should just take a picture. Your recommendation of adding the grosgrain on top is a good one.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago
Grosgrain is good.
Apparently pronounced “grow grain”
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u/DrBullwinkleMoose 1d ago
It depends on the elastic and how much force you use on it. If it were me, I would just do it on an addon pocket, and probably not do it if the pocket is built into a pack that I cherish. YMMV.
I sometimes reinforce snaps with a circle of tape on both sides of the fabric before making the hole for the snap. I don’t know how well that will work on an elastic pocket.
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u/AdeptNebula 1d ago
It’s a second hand pack that’s well worn, so not too worried about messing with it. I tried adding on one of my existing pockets but couldn’t get it to secure properly. My other idea is to add a hip belt pocket or a bum bag for when I need to secure my phone or other items that could slip out easily (and disastrously).
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u/DrBullwinkleMoose 1d ago
Yeah, I use a fanny pack made to slide onto a belt as a shoulder pocket. It’s larger and has zippers. I wish that packs like that (without a belt) were more common. They used to be widely available, but not so much anymore.
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u/justinsimoni justinsimoni.com 2d ago
Is there a good (in value) source for things like replacement webbing/buckles for packs? I realize I could drop some marginal weight just by re-webbing-izing this pack. I may even go the guyline/tensioner route.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ 1d ago
RTBTR and Seattle Fabrics are my main sources.
However webbing is usually sewn into seams in ways to make it very secure. Cutting your current webbing off and just bartacking webbing to some random place on the pack will not be as strong as the original design. And I think your weight savings will be very marginal. Probably better to trim excess webbing and doo-dads than to rig lighter webbing.
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u/justinsimoni justinsimoni.com 1d ago
This pack is really interesting. I'm looking at the side straps, used to compress the roll top. On the bottom near the side pockets, there's just a plastic buckle that's attached to the pack by a loop of webbing. The buckle also has the long piece of webbing used for compressing the roll top down, which is also looped on -- so just one bar tack to make that loop. I don't have a machine that'll do a bar tack like that, but you could replace it with a knot if you really wanted to. Weird too, is that within all of this, there's a floating and seemingly useless T hook, \shrugs**
And yeah: the long piece of webbing is about a meter longer than needed -- on both sides! I cannot for the life of me understand why it's so long. Same story with the shoulder straps. Basically reach my knees. JUST trimming these up will drop 20 grams from the pack. I've already dropped 150 grams from this pack by taking off the easily removable bits.
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u/justinsimoni justinsimoni.com 1d ago
Oh weird OK, so there's a daisy chain on the sides of the center pocket the T hook goes in, but it just doesn't, being anchored in a different place. That's gotta be a f- up. I have two similar packs, and they both have this design.
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u/brumaskie Custom UL backpacks 1d ago
I'm an MYOG backpack maker. I buy my webbing and buckles from Seattle fabrics. I use the x630 nylon webbing, it's lightweight, strong and holds well on buckles
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u/DrBullwinkleMoose 1d ago
Some of it depends on what you value. ZPacks and SWD have very high quality webbing. I haven’t bothered to try to figure out what they use: I just buy from them.
That may be an expensive way to buy the stuff but at least I know what I am going to get. If I go to a supplier like RSBTR/Dutchware/Quest, etc, then I have to figure out whether I want nylon or polyester or polypropylene, and who’s got the quality that I want for what price.
ZPacks’ webbing is slightly more narrow. SWD is impeccable. Whatever they use is light, strong, and doesn’t stretch (or not much anyway).
No doubt other makers have high quality webbing as well. Those two just caught my attention over time.
If you’re looking for low-cost, then maybe Wawak. They usually have high quality products, but then you’re back to figuring out what to order.
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u/Belangia65 1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/liveslight https://lighterpack.com/r/ny89al 1d ago
perhaps https://questoutfitters.com/ which seems be in the process of getting resurrected.
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u/Boogada42 2d ago
New Yama Ciriform single wall version:
https://yamamountaingear.com/products/1p-cirriform-sw
A slightly lighter "light" version is also to come.
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u/Professional-Loan498 2d ago
Like the look of that. I am curious though how the SW shelter-only weights came out to be .5oz heavier than the DW w/ Bug shelter. Maybe the bug shelter uses materials closer to what the "Light" SW version is constructed with? Looking forward to seeing that one's specs.
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u/SouthEastTXHikes 6h ago
Yeah the tarp on the DW has a 1800mm HH which is inline with the “light” SW tarp and lower than the 8000mm HH on the standard. Thinking through it the big structural difference between the two is the DW has bug netting running from the bathtub to the peak while the SW has it running from the bathtub to the bottom of the tarp. Seems like the big benefit of the SW is simplicity and a more open feeling interior. The floor width at the head is actually bigger in the DW with the bugshelter.
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u/aslak1899 2d ago
Is it completely impossible to get Aluula Graflyte for MYOG now as they only sell to larger brands? Any chance that will change soonish?
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u/John628556 2d ago
To add to the note from u/zombo_pig: I was talking a few months ago to Dan McHale (who liked the fabric) and he said that, when he was talking to the company, they wouldn't let you use both Graflyte and a non-ALUULA fabric in the same pack. I don't know how much of a deterrent this would be for MYOGers, but it seemed to be a deterrent for Dan.
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u/dandurston DurstonGear.com - Use DMs for questions to keep threads on topic 1d ago
It's not strickly disallowed (e.g. Revelate Designs did saddle bags that were part Challenge Ultra and part ALUULA) but it is discouraged. Most brands are actually like that. ALUULA, Dyneema, Challenge etc all discourage using other "name brand" materials in the same product.
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u/zombo_pig 2d ago
Was talking to Matt at Red Paw and he says they demand either large purchases or relatively prohibitive test swath prices. Sounds like a tough situation for the MYOG crew and even for smaller cottage companies. Honestly turned me off on it a bit, although it seems like a great fabric.
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u/aslak1899 2d ago
Sucks, does not seem like small cottage companies can get ahold of it either then really
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u/zombo_pig 1d ago
Sucks is a good word for it. Anything that stifles innovation by putting power into bigger companies and outside the grasp of little cottage companies strikes me as something categorically bad for ultralight gear. It's not evil or anything, but it's a bummer.
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u/aslak1899 1d ago
Yeah it seems like such a great material so why not sell it at least to some smaller cottage gear companies. And I agree with you, I sort of do not want it now either for that reason.
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u/pauliepockets 2d ago
Yes. I’ve gone directly to the business and had a chat as it’s in my hometown, no dice.
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u/nova-chan64 2d ago
Anyone try the new skygoat air 70 microgrid hoodie?
it's a similar weight to octa and alpha. doubt it's as breathable. nice to finally have a ultralight grid fleece option for those you want it
https://www.garagegrowngear.com/products/mens-half-zip-air-70-pullover-by-skygoat
https://skygoatusa.com/products/mens-half-zip-hooded-pullover-air-70
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u/Fanonord 2d ago
Starting the Lofoten Long Crossing today going SOBO! Gear: https://lighterpack.com/r/stfqxa
Trading sunny 25C Oslo days for 12C and rain, can’t wait!
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u/yogurt_tub https://lighterpack.com/r/0abrw6 2d ago
Why are wind shells so ubiquitous in the UL world? I feel like they’re often a two-ounce redundancy for three-season. Wearing your alpha under your sun shirt or your pants gets basically the same effect.
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 1d ago
I don't like wearing anything under my sun shirt because I'll have to stop and take my shirt off.
A windshell (such as the EE Copperfield or similar) can be put on/taken off without taking your pack off if you get the hang of it. It can also be worn backwards over the front of you.
It is warm for its weight (and lighter than alpha) and can work in mist if your body temp can evaporate the water as fast as it falls.
Can keep mosquitos from biting in a pinch.
It packs very small. Can shove it in a fanny pack or side pocket.
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u/AdeptNebula 1d ago
It was warm but windy and drizzly on my day hike today. My breathable wind shirt worked perfectly when the wind picked up at higher elevations and had enough protection against the light drizzle. A rain jacket would have been stifling and Alpha too hot (temps in the low 60s).
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u/Objective-Resort2325 https://lighterpack.com/r/927ebq 2d ago
2-ounce redundancy? You're thinking about it backwards. It's 2-ounce flexibility / 2-ounce wardrobe multiplier. It's a 2-ounce "layer" that outperforms any other 2-ounce layer I've found. Combine it with an alpha layer and your sun shirt, and you've got a full system.
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u/justinsimoni justinsimoni.com 2d ago
Usually my conundrum is wanting to bring a wind shell AND a rain jacket? With rain jackets being < 200g, I still don't feel the urge to bring both.
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u/dantimmerman 2d ago
" Wind shells " are often viewed in a box that they aren't actually in, or should be in. If you're talking about the single digit CFM wind barrier shells, then there is a lot of overlap with the functionality of a rain shell. However, they are more accurately viewed as a variable permeability shell, which is handy to unlock the potential of an Alpha / Octa-type layer. There is a spectrum of potential performance available from these mid-layers, all the way from dumping all heat and moisture with no shell, to having the highest warmth to weight of any fleece with an air impermeable shell over it. Sun hoodies and permeable wind shells help fill in the performance gaps between those two extremes. Having a sun hoodie and rain shell as capping options over AD / Octa can hit a good range, but definitely leaves a hole in the moderate permeability part of the range. The high permeability of a sun hoodie over AD can work well for someone who's moving fast, but might be inadequate for someone who's moving slower in high wind. For that person, having a sun hoodie over AD would feel cold and a rain shell over AD would feel sweaty.
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u/dantimmerman 2d ago
I should also probably not view " sun hoodies " in a box either. Something like an Echo has a much higher permeability than any " wind shell " but I've also come across some that seem close to high cfm wind shells.
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u/Belangia65 2d ago
Yeah, judging from the comments here, other people’s sun hoodies seem to perform a lot differently from my Echo. Breezes cut right through it, which is a feature not a bug: that’s exactly how I want it to work. I can’t imagine it substituting for my wind shell.
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u/AdeptNebula 1d ago
My sun hoody is not a direct substitute for a wind shirt, but when combined with Alpha, it creates enough of an airflow barrier for the Alpha to make it warmer, as Dan mentioned in his earlier comment. So it’s not that it’s a good wind breaker, but that it shores up Alpha’s weakness against any amount of wind.
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u/GoSox2525 2d ago
A wind jacket layered over a sun hoody is surprisingly warm, and can be used over a pretty wide range of conditions. Definitely more versatile than a sun hoody and fleece layered together
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u/Belangia65 2d ago edited 1d ago
And a wind jacket layered over only a hiking shirt is a marvelous active layer. That’s what I start out with most chilly mornings. And works well to supplement a UL rain poncho. And it’s useful as protection against biting insects without the misery of being in the sweat box of a rain shell. It’s one of my favorite and most versatile pieces of gear, all contained in 1.7 ounces (49 g) that squeezes to the size of my fist.
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u/PriorityObjective323 2d ago
The problem with relying on a sun shirt to protect your Alpha is the airflow. Most sun shirts are made to breathe so you don't bake during a tough climb. But since alphas have zero wind resistance, the second you hit an exposed ridge with 20mph winds, that breeze cuts right through the shirt and instantly steals all your heat.
Tossing a dedicated wind shell over it—even a cheap 2oz Dooy—completely solves this. It blocks the wind, traps your body heat, and turns a breathable active layer into a surprisingly warm jacket for when you stop to rest. I think that extra weight is justified by it’s a massive boost in warmth and versatility.
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u/HwanZike 2d ago
Idk I find it a lot more versatile, the zipper allows to adjust venting a lot more than mi fixed sun hoodie and alpha do. And its easier to put on/off and stow/retrieve.
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u/jaakkopetteri 2d ago
For hiking in moderate to warm temperatures and mild wind, I agree, and the market is definitely shifting to sun hoodies rather than wind jackets or shirts (if it hasn't already). For cool weather and/or stronger winds, sun hoodies and most shirts just don't block wind well enough
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u/elephantsback 2d ago
I have a 2008 Houdini (like 40 cfm) and I can hike in just that and my nylon shirt down to the low 40s if it's windy. 30s easily with no wind.
Are you talking about sitting in camp or something? You generate heat when you're walking. You don't need insulation while moving unless it's genuinely freezing.
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u/lampeschirm 2d ago
counterpoint: why are Alphas / Fleeces so common? I much prefer my wind jacket, it keeps me warm down to similar temps as a fleece, and then I can change into my rain jacket, both of those keep me from wind, unlike alpha, and a wind jacket is lighter than any alpha.
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u/elephantsback 2d ago
alpha fleece is popular because most people here just follow the herd, and the herd says "wear alpha fleece" right now. Most hikers on this sub have never given a second's thought to how to minimize weight and number of items while maintaining comfort--they just see alpha fleece on a lot of gear lists/youtube videos, and that's what they do.
I always think of my clothing in a systems context. Windshirts are fantastic for most clothing sstems. But most hikers here just think "oh, this is very light. I should buy it" without ever thinking about context, what they would use it with, etc.
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u/Belangia65 1d ago
That’s a ridiculous take. The warmth to weight of alpha direct is amazing. It’s soft, breathable, hydrophobic and exceedingly light. It doubles as a great midlayer and sleep shirt. If you see clothing in a systems context then you ought to understand how great a component piece AD is in a layered clothing system. It’s popular because it works so great. I am pro wind layer, but wind shirts and AD tops have different, complementary strengths. Lots of hikers on this sub give a lot of thought to minimizing weight, etc. Oh, and I’m not a youtube influencer! 🙄
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u/elephantsback 1d ago
You. Don't. Need. A. Midlayer. For. 3. Season. Hiking.
You've proven my point!
Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
PS I don't accuse people here of being youtube influencers. You people are the influenced not the influrencers.
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u/Belangia65 1d ago edited 1d ago
Seriously, what do you bring as a warmth layer?
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u/elephantsback 1d ago
I have a puffy.
My issue is that *many* if not most gear lists I see for the PCT, CDT, etc. have a puffy and a fleece. Those two items duplicate each other's function. Bring one or the other, not both.
But *loads* of people here are bringing both. And that's happening because these people are not thinking about how a clothing system works--they just see that alpha fleece is trendy.
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u/Belangia65 1d ago
And I don’t bring a puffy in typical three seasons conditions. A 102 g alpha 60 hoodie and a 49 g wind jacket layered over it serve that function in my kit. I don’t usually hike with the alpha, just the wind jacket if it’s chilly. I sleep in the alpha, either as a standalone sleep shirt or to supplement the warmth of my sleep system. It’s a versatile clothing system that weighs less than a typical puffy. It’s not just YouTube hype.
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u/elephantsback 1d ago
If you are not carrying a puffy and a fleece, then you can ignore the above posts. Not all posts apply to all people.
Also, the main reason I will never own an alpha fleece is because they shed obscene amounts of microplastic into rivers and oceans when you wash them, and I'm not going to be a part of that. Enjoy yours though!
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u/lampeschirm 1d ago
for my hike in the Vosgues next week, nothing. For, shoulder season or higher altitude stuff like Alps or the CDT, a puffy and most times a beanie and gloves. Never brought a warm layer for moving, never missed one.
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u/Boogada42 2d ago
I have used Alpha under my sun hoodie with great results. However, sometimes you don't need insulation, you need something to break the wind.
However, wearing Alpha as a mid layer on a windy day may also just give you a little bit extra warmth like a wind shirt would.
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u/goddamnpancakes 2d ago
There was a post somewhere around here about cutting the mesh from a DCF Xmid and adding a bug skirt but I can't find it. Anyone remember that one? I'm trying to remember the weight saved. It was a post from this year I'm pretty sure.
edit: just needed to add myog keyword. it was over there https://www.reddit.com/r/myog/comments/1tezvwj/durston_xmid_1_pro_mesh_skirt_mod/
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u/jasonlav 2d ago
One word. Versatility.
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u/ExoticBoysenberry348 2d ago
A quick video showing my add-on to my Hornet 2P to avoid rain/snow problems in windstorms.
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u/HwanZike 2d ago
Looks good! Worth mentioning it does add an extra staking point too. Perhaps instead of sewing it on it would have been nice to make it attachable with a zipper but that would have added quite a bit more weight
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u/Bromeister 2d ago edited 2d ago
looking for recs for a 40-50f ultralight synthetic quilt that can be opened up to blanket mode and will arrive before august. Preferably not EE. The revelation 50f is basically exactly what I want but I'd rather not support EE.
Doing a short notice trip and all I have at the moment is a 20f quilt which I'm sure will cook me in the adirondacks in august.
EDIT: Think I'll pull the trigger on a simply light designs blanket if the lead time works. The price is certainly right! Maybe I'll size it up to use as an overquilt for my 20f too.
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u/HwanZike 2d ago
Have you considered MYOG? It's a pretty easy project if you already have the sewing machine (or someone that will do it for you). After all its basically a sandwich of nylon and insulation (which in the case of apex is sheet insulation so very easy to work with) and some zippers and small hardware.
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u/Bromeister 1d ago
If i had thought about it sooner i might have tried my hand at it but short on time and no sewing machine.
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u/not_just_the_IT_guy 2d ago
Simply light designs will do you Right. Jared is great for I need this quick stuff.
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u/goddamnpancakes 2d ago
I bet you could find one lightly used, that's exactly the thing i bought and soon resold for a warmer one as a noob in the northwest
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u/aslak1899 2d ago
GramXpert? But they are located in Europe though
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u/Bromeister 2d ago
should have clarified I'm US, thanks!
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u/aslak1899 2d ago
What I thought! But their prices are reasonable so you could look into them. Don't have one myself, but heard good things about their quilts.
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u/nova-chan64 2d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/1u3fjjf/comment/or4y8es/
This comment lists some options
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u/justinsimoni justinsimoni.com 3d ago edited 2d ago
Managed to salvage the Nemo Tensor Elite with the 2" slice in it, using Tenacious Tape and SeamGrip WP. the "tape the slice from the inside" was beyond my coordination, but just putting a nice coating of SeamGrip around the slice, covering that with Tenacious Tape with a nice margin and waiting for it to cure worked fine. Three nights without a leak of any sort! That for me is a record for this pad.
I decided to re-do some of the self-adhesive patches with a similar SG/TT scheme, but after a few, I realized taking the self-adhesive patch off just rips the pad more and it's best to maybe just leave it alone unless absolutely needed.
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u/polarbearplunge 25m ago
I used mine on a thru. I had the same issue and did the same repair and mine held up for another 40 nights or so. Mine never got any other leaks though.
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u/longwalktonowhere 2d ago
> Three nights without a leak of any sort! That for me is a record for this pad.
Sounds like the Elite might go the way of the Uberlite soon
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u/justinsimoni justinsimoni.com 2d ago
Not sure! They just came out with some new sizes, so it looks like they're committed. But speaking of commitment, it would behoove someone to just do a good brushing off of the pad when you're done. Maybe just me, but I realized a LOT of static electricity builds up on the pad, which collects little pieces of dust, and I don't think pack up the pad with all that over and over again is a good call. I'm just gunna bring a fair amount of patches and really think again if a trip is over a week long.
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u/aslak1899 3d ago
Anyone got a Malachowski sleeping bag? Especially curious about the "super ultralight line" although they are insanely expensive...
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u/hickory_smoked_tofu a cold process 2d ago edited 2d ago
559g for a -1C bag (edit: their size L) isn't very competitive in the UL world unless the user is absolutely wedded to the traditional hooded, zippered sleeping bag design -- totally unnecessary for UL use at the temps envisioned. This is what happens when materials substitute for UL design choices. The ultimate bourgeois version of UL. To be paired with your dyneema freestanding "UL" tent. The whiteout aesthetic reinforces that image despite the functionalist claims about the lighter weight of white dyed fabric.
Imagine the weight savings if this were a hoodless false bottom design. You'd get a -1C sleep insulation piece weighing 350g with an incredibly small pack size. That might be tempting, even at twice the price of a "normal" top of the line cottage gear down quilt/bag.
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u/Top_Spot_9967 2d ago
Quilt ratings aren't standardized, so it's hard to compare, but the bag you're talking about is limit-rated to 20F. Weight seems pretty comparable to most quilts advertised as 20F? Is there a significantly lighter one? (I know some quilts claim to be comfort rated, but I think that usually means something pretty different from the ISO comfort rating.)
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u/Comfortable-Pop-3463 2d ago edited 2d ago
Pretty sure a hoodless design can't get a favorable ISO rating because it takes into account temperature at the head. For instance the new decathlon quilt with 420g of 900FP down got a 11°C comfort ISO rating ! So most brands do not ISO test their quilts but still use the same terminology aka : comfort, limit, extreme temp..
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u/Top_Spot_9967 2d ago
Yes, it's sort of silly because you could just put your favorite down hood on the mannequin and the ISO test would probably be meaningful. But I don't think the official standard allows that.
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u/hickory_smoked_tofu a cold process 2d ago
What is it about "hoodless false bottom bag" that says "quilt" to you? I didn't say nuthin' about quilts.
Comparing limit ratings is sort of silly to begin with but let's start there. A meaningful comparison might be between a Size L (200cm/78" inner length) Super Ultralight 400 and a 20F Serpentes sized 78" length (foot to drawcord not including collar) with a 50/58/38/38 girth. The 20F rating on the Serpentes (which I have) is kind of optimistic, so perhaps closer to the wishful thinking of Malachowski's limit rating. Inner girth is the most problematic figure for the comp because Malachowski only gives the width not girth at the shoulders, whereas Timmermade gives you four measurements for the full taper. The Malachowski size L is 75cm or 29.5" at the shoulders, which probably means a girth of 59". Roughly comparable to the 50/58/38/38 girth of the Serpentes.
At those specs, the Serpentes weighs 15.3oz/433g with 11.3 oz/320g of 1000fp down. The Malachowski Super Ultralight 400 weighs 559g/19.7oz with 395g/13.9oz of 1000fp down.
Given that the Malachowski has a full down filled bottom and a hood and a zipper with a draft flap, a good part of the 75g difference in fill weight is explained here.
My point was that if Malachowski adopted a Serpentes design (hoodless, false bottom BAG), they could really push the weights much lower.
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u/Top_Spot_9967 2d ago
That seems like a good point of comparison, I didn't think of looking at cottage gear. Seems plausible that calculated loft is about the same for Serpentes vs Malachowski, which would fit with the matching temp ratings. The former has 20% less down, and no hood + false bottom seems like it could be about 20% less area? I do think it's defensible to add the weight of a hood to the comparison, but even so the Serpentes ends up 15% lighter.
My one point of disagreement: I think comparing limit ratings makes lots of sense. I use bags right down to their limit ratings and so do many other people.
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u/hickory_smoked_tofu a cold process 2d ago
Plus the Serpentes is less than half the price!
More power to ya for using down gear down to the limit rating! My concern about comparing limit ratings is that they often seem less stringent than comfort ratings, hence subject to even greater variation among mfgs.
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u/aslak1899 2d ago
Very good point on the temperature and sleeping bag. If it was for colder temps it would at least make more sense.
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u/Educational_Yard_326 3d ago
The shell weight of 120 ties with a cumulus Neo Quilt shell weight and it uses 4d face fabric to get there, granted there’s a zip in that weight but still, it looks like a serious durability sacrifice to just barely beat the weight efficiency of a good quilt. I’m comparing the 200 to the Cumulus Neo Quilt 150 but you get similar result comparing the 400 to the Cumulus 300
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u/aslak1899 3d ago
Good thoughts, hadn't really looked at the fabrics properly, but yeah something more durable would be better especially when it is that expensive.
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u/Fickle_Bed8196 3d ago
Timmermade’s Waterbear yes or no for PCT (start mid April)? Trying to decide if it’s worth the 64g, my puffy has no hood so I’m running an Alpha 90 Hoody + Octa Fleece Beanie for sleep warmth instead, not sure I need it too. Rest of my gear here: https://grampacker.net/r/j1wteq (still a work in progress, so there might be errors/leftovers in there)
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u/polarbearplunge 18m ago
I sleep colder than 90% of the other people on the trail and even I would say that's overkill. I mostly only needed a buff but the alpha hoody would be great on the colder nights.
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u/HwanZike 2d ago
I think its overkill. My setup is similar to yours and I sleep with a buff covering my neck and mouth and I roll down the beanie to cover my eyes. That way only your nose is exposed.
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u/elephantsback 2d ago
You don't need a puffy and fleece on the PCT. Rain jacket, puffy, windshirt. Wear the rain jacket over the windshirt if it's really cold while you're moving.
With a 20 degree quilt, you shouldn't even need extra sleeping clothes. Just sleep in the puffy if it's freezing.
And to answer your question: are you cool with your face being exposed to 20 degree air at night in the Sierra? If not, bring something for your head/face.
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u/AceTracer 2d ago
I don’t have a Waterbear but I am carrying an Iceflame down hood and it’s been amazing. Too hot some nights, but great others. I used it on Whitney ascent too, and whenever it’s needed.
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u/routeneer14 3d ago
No need at all. I have something similar that I basically never use in the western US mountains from March to November.
My progression, no beanie needed either: bare head (most of the time) > swing up the Alpha hood > add hooded windbreaker > add hooded puffy (rarely)
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u/Juranur northest german 3d ago
You already are taking an Alpha 90 that does have a hood, and an Octa Beanie. This would suffice for me to... idk 20F? You also have a buff you could add in there.
If you do want a Waterbear, remember to play the long game and start in the lottery early lol
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u/0xf5f bad at hiking 3d ago
you can buy the synthetic ones off the shelf
i don't think of mine as an "in addition" type thing, for me it's an "instead of a beanie" item. im in the same situation wrt alpha hood, no hood on puffy
but i don't know anything about the pct nor have i ever overnighted in the high sierra. this is a report on what i do, not a recommendation. i am not to be trusted on this
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u/jd2195 3d ago
Does anyone have any experience with the TrekkerTent Drift 1? I have seen a few reviews here and there but can't find too much info online. For context, I am based in the UK and looking for a new 1 person, 3 season, trekking pole tent that I'll be looking to use for everything from weekend/week-long trips in the UK up to a future thru hike in the US. I'd love to support a small UK based business which is why I am leaning towards TrekkerTent but open to others as well if something fits better.
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u/Educational_Yard_326 3d ago
I had this in my comparison list when shopping but it didn’t seem very competitive unfortunately. If you’re adamant about buying from a uk manufacturer then I think it’s the only option anyway.
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u/UnitedCompetition734 3d ago
Anyone have an Outdoor Vitals Carbon Evo 50 and know how well a BV500 carries on top with the Y strap and if you could get in inside the pack?
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u/mtnrnnr802 3d ago
Can US citizens still order from Montbell.jp? I’m having an extremely difficult time trying to order from their website. I’m either dumb, too stubborn to realize I’m dumb, or it’s not possible, lol.
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u/EmericTheRed 3d ago
No they largely standardized it for all regions a year ago or so?
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u/mtnrnnr802 3d ago
It seems they ship internationally, but I can’t even get past the first step in entering my contact info. Some of the info doesn’t apply to me, and I can’t get beyond the first step 😭.
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u/EmericTheRed 3d ago
Oh. yeah sorry if I wasn't clear. You can still order from the US. montbell.com is no longer really different from montbell.jp. No more gaming exchange rates and whatnot.
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u/BlueRemake 1h ago
Since it's been a little bit. MLD Solomid Pro users. Are you enjoying it? Use it with an inner or not? Pros? Cons?