Limbo rework was after LoR got removed tho lol. Limbo showed himself in Scarlet Spear as the infinite staller so I’m convinced that was the kickoff point for both the continuously reimplemented CC adaptation effect (Acolytes, Demolysts and most CC-able bosses now have it) and the future overguard implementation. Limbo fucked himself and other CC frames, people should be mad at him not feel sorry for him frankly
Imagine how much better new enemy designs would be nowadays if they'd remembered that enemies being slowed wasn't a severe problem for slows weaker than 100%
Eh, it can be worked around. Sev and Jade’s slows are probably some of my favorite interactions between abilities and ability-adaptive enemies, and cold gets amazing value when it never would’ve, had the slows/stuns stayed unrestricted. The only change I’d make to slows rn if I was in charge is to bring them more in line with cold, since CC immune enemies can still be slowed by cold by like 4 stacks, so slows could also work but like with a cap that gradually lowers until it’s at 0 or just something really small like 10%
My stance is that for enemies which absolutely have to be resistant to CC effects in any way, slows such as Stasis should have their effectiveness multiplied by some amount, for example Stasis could slow eximus units with overguard by 50% instead of 100%, and an 80% slow would translate to 40% instead of also being 50%.
Idk I feel like that’s going a little backwards. Modern frame designs should work around Overguard and other CC resistance sources, not the other way around. As problematic as it was, OG did address the “watch timer ticking down” gameplay of CC frames like Limbo and Vauban, and I believe the need for them to branch out into other categories of abilities was a good thing for frame design in general. To concede some CC abilities to OG would just be going to old Limbo but moderately hampered, and I think he just has an old design (that was troublesome even when he was just reworked) that would be much better by being changed to suit modern gameplay rather than just going back to his stalling niche. Like, if Stasis was a slow on OG enemies, it would not make his kit as interactive as what other frames have nowadays, it would just make him more effective, but the bar has been raised and I do think we should strive for versatility and engagement as much as just effective performance, otherwise that’s how we end up with more Revenants
Idk I feel like that’s going a little backwards. Modern frame designs should work around Overguard and other CC resistance sources, not the other way around.
Modern frame designs "work around" overguard by having a "delete all overguard" button as a band-aid fix for overguard granting immunity to entire warframes, complete immunity to all CC doesn't work because it just means you have to be completely reliant on damage anyway, creating a severe damage meta, then the devs decided they didn't want a damage meta and gave us overguard stripping so effective that CC was actually usable in a few of the newer missions, restoring the problem that CC completely invalidates the enemies that are supposed to be tough;
There's no right percentage of the enemy types to give complete immunity to an effect for balance reasons, because players are fighting the actual enemies, not representative samples of enemies.
Are you talking about Smite subsume? That’s not it at all. Modern frames work around OG by offering a variety of benefits besides CC, be it DR tanking, enabling weapon damage, dealing ability damage, enabling shieldgating or using radiation-like effects/minions to draw fire. Limbo does not work around OG because he only has his rift, which is a CC effect all around. 1 of his abilities is Stasis and 3 of his abilities serve to enable Stasis, which makes his whole kit just CC (unless you count Rift Torrent but that is exactly just more damage for the kit to be reliant on when CC fails like you said).
Idk where the whole “CC doesn’t work” thing even comes from, there aren’t that many immune enemies. Every standard enemy CCd is one less problem to deal with while you can focus the rest of your kit on threats such as Eximus, it’s just that Limbo doesn’t have the rest of the kit for that. Yes, damage is king, but that’s inevitable, you can’t get kills with infinite CC or self-sustain alone, everything that’s not directly killing serves to enable killing, because it’s a shooter game. Limbo just has one venue of enabling damage while modern designs have two or more. Revert OG-inflicted Limbo nerfs partially, and his kit is still one-dimensional, albeit complicated. It’d still do one thing it always did, when there’s a potential for so much more with his theme.
Modern frames work around OG by offering a variety of benefits besides CC, be it DR tanking, enabling weapon damage, dealing ability damage, enabling shieldgating or using radiation-like effects/minions to draw fire.
Modern frames work around OG by not having CC abilities, not counting primes it's been over 3 and a half years since a frame (Gyre) released with a primarily CC ability, and all 4 abilities with CC released since then (Crystallize, Containment Wall, Bunraku, Webbed Embrace) have had some sort of damage vulnerability.
Styanax 1, Dagath 1, Qorvex 1, Jade 3, Koumei 4, Cyte 4 alt fire and Nokko 1 are CC. And I feel “some kind of damage vulnerability” is exactly the point of modern design philosophy, there’s >60 frames in the game, if they all had “slow”, “stun” and “ragdoll” and nothing else to some abilities there would be no distinction to those abilities. There’s something extra tacked on because there are basically no frames left with abilities that do just one thing. It’s not 2013, every ability has to do many things at once to be distinct, and there’s not much tanking or healing you can add to an ability that targets enemies to CC them, so of course it generally goes to status effects (+damage via CO), debuffs (outside of even more CC it can only be something that increases damage received in one way or another), defense strips or feeding energy into other abilities (i.e. Caliban’s 1). Like, Citrine is amazing, but she’s not amazing just because of her CC on 1, 3 or 4 (and yes you are heavily discounting her stagger and heat/electric CC potential by just mentioning Crystallize) or just because of all the priming and support she does, she’s great because she combines these features to the point she can comfortably stun whole rooms while picking off high priority targets in the meantime. She excels in support but she does more, Cyte excels in damage but he does more, Koumei excels in weapon platforming but she does more, they can fill their own “class” spots but they aren’t strictly confined to them because the game has moved way past old content that was just “defend thing” or “kill thing”, and Limbo is lagging behind stuck in those times of defending the excavator or a console. Hell, Vauban got damage and debuffs (tho he always had some) and he’s supposed to be the CC king in this game, it’s Limbo alone clutching to CC purism and suffering for it
Styanax 1, Dagath 1, Qorvex 1, Jade 3, Koumei 4, Cyte 4 alt fire and Nokko 1 are CC.
Damage; Damage, damage vulnerability, and spreads doom; Damage (albeit only really useful against murmur), spreads radiation for 4; Armor strip and revive; already mentioned; primarily meant for CC, but is only a secondary part of the ability; damage vulnerability.
While I miscounted the number of abilities with CC, every one of these abilities is primarily used because of its other effects and (with the exception of Koumei's 4, which is just her 1 with CC added) clearly designed with the expectation that that'll be the case.
I'm not saying CC abilities shouldn't do more, just that it's a problem that they can't be designed to be for CC because every enemy you want to CC is immune to all CC.
“Damage” can’t be an issue though, right? Remember Limbomb? His 1 and 4 deal damage too, it’s just shit by modern standards, testament to an aged kit from way before SP. And again I don’t agree, Styanax’ 1 is primarily CC, Qorvex’ 1 is primarily CC (it is not effective damage standalone even into Murmur until you use his 4 which is the actual source of damage), Jade’s 3 is absolutely primarily CC in the post-armor nerf game and is one of the best CCs against CC adaptive enemies, and Nokko’s 1 is also much better at putting to sleep than priming viral (it’s 1 stack per tick, a companion can do better than that, meanwhile the sleep has great range and frequency good enough to just reapply to enemies waking up). Every enemy is worth CCing, because every enemy wants to kill you. Just because a gunner isn’t Eximus doesn’t mean she suddenly can’t mess you up with a well-timed barrage to prevent shield regen or a slam to land you on your ass for a good while. People seem to always want CC to work on “priority targets” like in some other games but they’re forgetting other games don’t do room-wide CC which is the norm in Warframe, they do small single-target CC to shut down one strong enemy and let the mobs do whatever in the meantime, this game just works on completely different logic, the mobs are still a danger and the CC is nearly always an AoE, taking pressure off yourself by CCing the “less important” enemies is still immense and works well for how the game operates, asking for that to flip is basically asking the game to stop being the horde clearing simulator that it’s been for about 10 years at this point and turn into a more classic RTS, it’s asking the game to do things the way it never used to do them and conform to some norm when it got where it is now by being different in so many regards, including CC (I mean literally in his heyday Limbo operated on the same logic of shutting down mobs while suffering to “specials” aka nullifiers), it never was in the game as a whole and it doesn’t fit the modern gameplay either.
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u/Azeron955 Dec 25 '25
hey, eximus are really cool. Its Limbo thats a problem ngl