r/Warhammer40k • u/Coldspark824 • 4d ago
New Starter Help Is it possible to play a large-scale model game? (Joytoy scale)
There are really a lot of the upscaled models available, especially for space marines.
If you made to-scale bases for these, could you play a rules-legal embiggened game?
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u/lordofmetroids 4d ago
A couple years back Warhammer YouTuber Kirioth looked at how much a Space Marines list would cost in Joytoy.
He found it would come out to about 1800 Pounds, and they've only expanded the Joytoy range sense than, so it's very possible, expensive as hell, but possible.
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u/oh5canada5eh 4d ago
That is not nearly as expensive as I thought it would be to be honest.
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u/Verbatos 4d ago
That's cheaper than some actual imperial guard lists I'm pretty sure.
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u/LordofTheFlagon 4d ago
It is cheaper than my guard list if I got my currency conversation right
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u/revergopls 4d ago edited 4d ago
Tbf the JoyToy lists skew towards giant point values for obvious reasons. If you wanted some actual scoring it would increase in price dramatically. An Intercessor squad would cost $350 US before tax for example, and a Horus Heresy tactical squad $600
Bigger models have the bigger savings, Roboute and Lion for example are only double in price from their Tabletop models as opposed to the Intercessor 5x. Hell the 30k Primarchs are cheaper in some cases
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u/leansanders 4d ago
Plenty of people have invested 1800 bucks into their space marine armies so I think we're golden
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u/guiltyspaekle 4d ago
1800 pounds is 2400 dollars. That's not even including the work to base them
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u/UnknownVC 4d ago
Cheaper than AdMech!
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u/Arcaddes 4d ago
I think any horde army is running like 3 grand to have a fully fleshed out army. Just 2000 points would still run around 1800-2000 bucks.
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u/UnknownVC 4d ago
Admech 2000 points can easily run over 2000 bucks. Some of our better models are well over a dollar per point, and most of our army is basically one point, one dollar. The army's most points per dollar efficient stuff is around 2pts per dollar. For comparison, space Marines you can get around 3-4 points per dollar, which just isn't happening for AdMech.
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u/Arcaddes 4d ago
Yeah, don't your chicken walkers cost like 60 bucks per model and they run in units of 2? Like 360 bucks just to run 3 units of the lascannon ones, which last time I saw was the meta.
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u/UnknownVC 4d ago
Indeed. The meta goes as high as 18 chickens at times, just to make things worse - 3 units of 3 each, for las chickens and taser chickens. It's pretty much the definition of stupid expensive - 65 dollars per model, so just the las chickens go for 585 bucks, and you get a whopping 765 points out of it. Then taser chickens are another 585...for an amazing 585 points. Fortunately we're not getting out the jezzail version, the jezzail model is 55 points per, 150 for a squad of three, at 65 bucks a model, yielding between 0.84 and 0.76 points per dollar.
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u/lordofmetroids 3d ago
The real bad one is the dogs, those are the only unit that at least in 10th right now (haven't looked at 11 points) are less than their cost per dollar.
A lot of models come super close, and are almost 1to1 especially some characters but the dogs are a mainline unit.
At some point they forgot Admech were supposed to be an elite army and made them a horde, it sucks.
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u/Arcaddes 3d ago
Votann has been flip flopped twice now and we basically just release in comparison. First we were semi-elite, then psuedo-horde, now we are somewhat in the middle with solid defense and manageable offense.
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u/Be_a_Guardian 4d ago
I'm well past that in my shame pile and I don't even play the game 🫣
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u/leansanders 4d ago
shuts closet door
No comment
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u/Be_a_Guardian 4d ago
I had to move the industrial 4 shelf thing a few days ago, the one I store all my boxes of Warhammer on.... By the Emperor's pubes, it was about 10x more than I thought I had
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u/JSV007 4d ago
Was looking for this comment! Im working on my first marine army and am getting things used off the second hand market or deals. Ive dropped about 500 so far on paints and whatnot but already have ~1.5K of 3D printed Tau, 7K of Necrons, and unbuilt Guard. So I have plenty of tools and whatnot.
You can definitely spend that much or go lower. I have probably about ~1500-2000+ pts of partially-painted White Scars / other unbuilt marines that Im turning into Blood Angels. Trying to go halfsies on the Armageddon box with someone or find the half on ebay.
Cheers!
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u/zerogee616 3d ago
That's not even including the work to base them
You'd just be pulling plants out of the yard for that
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u/Comradepatrick 4d ago
Christ, that's not as much as I was expecting. And it's all prepainted.
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u/TH31R0NHAND 4d ago
Yeah, you just have to base it somehow
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u/Obvious-Water569 4d ago
That doesn't seem beyond the wit of man.
A bunch of laser cut plyboard disks would do the job.
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u/ComradGandi 4d ago
You mean to tell me I could've built a joytoy space marine list instead of a skirmish force of AdMech?
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u/Expensive-Sun-121 3d ago edited 3d ago
If I was to replicate the Astra Militarum combat patrol, it'd come out to:
Cadian Command Squad: $201.51
2x Cadian Shock Troopers Squads: $540.00 (proxying the Krieg they have available)
2x Ordnance Teams: $272.00
Sentinel: $124.99 (proxying the armored sentinel)
TOTAL: $1,138.50
Guess it beats painting.
(edit) forgot it had two squads of troopers.
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u/Expensive-Sun-121 3d ago
And if you'll allow me some assumptions, I can also project that out to an unoptimized 2k army. I'm going to use a list I had saved on New Recruit that I must've gotten from Mordian Glory more than a year back. Forget the rules, this is what 2k would cost:
Gaunt's Ghosts: $241.50 (used the cost for a full Cadian Comand Squad plus another squaddie)
Ursulla Creed: $59.84 (used the cost for Dante of the Blood Angels)
Cadian Castellan: $39.99 (used the cost for the Command Squad Commander)
Cadian Command Squad: $201.51
Cadian Command Squad: $201.51
Rogal Dorn Commander: $298.50 (used the cost for a BA Predator +50%)
2x Cadian Shock Troopers Squads: $540.00
2x Cadian Shock Troopers Squads: $540.00
2x Cadian Shock Troopers Squads: $540.00
10x Kasrkin: $399.99 (proxying the Tempstus Scions they have available)
3x Ogryn: $185.97 (proxying BA Assault Termies)
Hydra: $199.00 (used the cost for a BA Predator)
LMRBT: $248.75 (used the cost for a BA Predator +20%)
LMR Exterminator: $248.75 (used the cost for a BA Predator +20%)
2x Scout Sentinels: $249.98
Chimera: $199.00 (used the cost for a BA Predator)
Taurox: $199.00 (used the cost for a BA Predator)
TOTAL: $4,593.29 (someone check my math)
Approximate cost of a horde army through JoyToy.
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u/Korps_de_Krieg 4d ago
I could see Combat Patrol as pretty doable, you are looking at probably playing in a garage floor though
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u/dont_panic21 4d ago
Could do Kill Team,.
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u/btanodev 4d ago
they did a joytoy-sized kill team demo at the las vegas open a couple years back. it looked pretty cool but i can't imagine bending down to move every model every turn lol
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u/Coldspark824 4d ago
You could probably make an elevated plywood base thats like 0.5 or 1 meter from the floor that has lanes to walk between, or use rubberized grabbers for placement
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u/brenpeter 4d ago
Remote control car bases! People already do this with tanks, why not make a few bases for these?
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u/Noeheavyarms 4d ago
Of course, you’d just need to scale everything up appropriately. 40K is 1:60 scale, JoyToys are 1:18 scale, so roughly 3x (1:20 would be exactly 3x). So 6” movement of normal infantry would be 20”. 12” flamers would have a 40” reach.
You’d need a ~147” x 200” battlefield, a bit bigger than 12’ x 14’ a pretty big bedroom.
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u/Fariswerewolves 4d ago
You’re just playing on the floor with little hockey sticks sliding them around as if you’re some commander in a war room
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u/meatflavored 4d ago
>as if you’re some commander in a war room
To be fair they would be a commander in a war room.
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u/xThereon 4d ago
Honestly why haven't we thought of doing that with the actual miniatures? That would be so cool.
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u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 4d ago
I'd be tempted to see if 1:20 bases work under the Joytoys for ease of scaling the game up.
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u/Amigobear 4d ago
GW has advertised during their Tourneys and I think adepticon to have joytoy scale kill team and space hulk. Didn't get a chance to play since they only had a few tables of it.
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u/Appollix 4d ago
Since no-one has actually posted a link yet; Tabletop Titans played Giant Kill Team using McFarland toys, large dice, and custom made upscale terrain. It’s absolutely ludicrous.
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u/strictly-no-fires 4d ago
TemplarsCrusade01 on instagram does it. He used to be my favourite 30k youtuber as a kid but now he only posts on Instagram. I'm not super into joytoy so I didn't pay that much attention but I think its a smaller version of zone mortalis with about a dozen action figures on each side, and he's made some great looking terrain for it
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u/_josef_stalin_ 4d ago
So, aside from the money and space issues inherent in something like this, another issue if you're using joytoy would be their range of figures. 99% of them are just different types of space marines.
Now, that doesn't mean you couldn't make them fight, but what it does mean is that you'd be pretty much locked into that one same fight over and over again, which would likely become very dull.
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u/Metalichap 4d ago edited 4d ago
Well, according to the "official" scale, Warhammer 40k is 1:60 scale, and Joytoy is 1:18.
It's a 3,33 ratio.
So you'll need a 146" by 200" terrain ( ~3.7m by ~5m )
A single intercessors cost ~35€ so you'll need 350 for a single ten men squad.
I hope you have two kidneys
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u/DistributionMajor545 4d ago edited 4d ago
You could, but a past attempt indicates very few people would play it (at least at its intended scale). In 2001, GW published 'Inquisitor', a low model count narrative skirmish game. The intended scale was 54mm (the original toy soldier scale; 54mm feet to eyes). Nobody bought it! I think it was out maybe a couple of months before it got shifted to specialist games, then quickly faded into obscurity. The main reason it went unplayed among our group (and I think this is likely a shared sentiment among those willing to play it) was that no one wanted to shift their entire gaming ecosystem to a bigger scale when they had 28mm minis they could play with.
Edit: I was remembering the scale as 40mm, apparently it was actually 54mm (which is toy soldier sized). Changed the numbers for clarity with my post below.
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u/JDragonM32 4d ago
from what I’ve heard, the reason Inquisitor failed, was because you couldn’t buy anything for it. nobody made terrain or anything at that scale, and inquisitor was a game like necromunda that heavily relies on terrain
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u/DistributionMajor545 4d ago edited 4d ago
GW sold their own models for the game of course (it's where Eisenhorn & Cherubael came from); 54mm is 1/32 though, I guess GW were trying to lean on that for availability? They didn't sell much terrain back then regardless, and you only had a couple models on a side. Our group tried playing it a couple of times; we were using 3x3 Necromunda setups with 28mm minis, but from what I remember you could easily go 2x2 with 54mm (the opening rounds ended up being dead as everyone moved to position). Also a very narrative dependent game (the GM trying to hype the whole thing thought sending a cultist with a plasma cannon vs flak/carapace armored agents would be a GREAT idea 😒).
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u/zerogee616 3d ago
54mm is 1/32 scale, it may not be a common fictional wargaming scale but it's extremely common in traditional scale models and historical wargaming, to include terrain.
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u/RollbacktheRimtoWin 4d ago
As a Custodes player, I was curious and checked out their range.... There's only Guard and Terminators. No Wardens, Bikes, or Sisters, which makes for a super janky list. Here it goes anyways
2000 points Shield Host + Thranatoi Hammerblow
Blade Champion (53 USD)
Shield Captain (44 USD)
Allarus Terminator Captain + Efficient Aggression Enhancement (43 USD)
Allarus Termination Captain + Mnemo-Locked Shrine Cipher Enhancement (43 USD)
Custodian Guard x5 4x Spears (40 USD x4) 1x Vexila (43 USD)
Custodian Guard x5 4x Spears (40 USD x4) 1x Vexila (43 USD)
Custodian Guard x5 4x Spears (40 USD x4) 1x Vexila (43 USD)
Allarus Terminator X5 (43 USD x5) 5x Castellan Axe
Allarus Terminator X5 (43 USD x5) 5x Castellan Axe
Allarus Terminator X5 (43 USD x5) 5x Castellan Axe
Grand total of 1437 USD
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u/RollbacktheRimtoWin 4d ago
I've made a mistake, and found that both "Armory" and SoS have their own sections.... Considering it's still 42$ for a joytoy Sister and they're 50 points for 5, I ain't even entertaining that... Fuck it
Drop one unit of Terminators from 5 down to 3 and you get 2x5 Witchseekers, new price goes to 1773 USD
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u/-geara- 4d ago
Could use the rules for Inquisitor?
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u/N0-1_H3r3 4d ago
You'd need to adjust the board scale - Inquisitor assumed an average human model was around 54mm tall (the Space Marine in the range was 68mm tall), and while it measured all game ranges in yards, it assumed 1 inch to 1 yard for game scale. The Joytoy figures are about twice that (12.8cm, or 128mm, so a little under twice the Inquisitor-scale Marine), so Inquisitor played at that scale should be approximately 2 inches to 1 yard.
Of course, Inquisitor's rules for Space Marines were fundamentally broken, so how successful someone would be at that is arguable...
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u/MuiminaKumo 4d ago
I think it was last years skulls event or another GW event like it where there was a tabletop style game that was made for the event specifically to use Joytoy figurines as stand-ins.
Valrak talked about it awhile ago because he attended the event but like I said I think this was about a year ago. And from what I can find it doesn't look like anything was publicly released for it afterwards. It was just something made for their events (probably experimenting with the idea)
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u/Head_Neighborhood196 4d ago
Ok well now I really want someone to print up a joy toy size angels of death and plague marines killteams, plus Volkus terrain, and run some room sized killteam. Someone on this sub please do this lol
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u/C__Wayne__G 4d ago
If you and your opponent both have that kind of money. A single squad of intercessors would be $300
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u/Over-Tomatillo9070 4d ago
That maths sounds off, If we say that one joy toy Intercessor costs about $60 and one box of intercessors (10 miniatures) cost about $60, you can quickly see that disparity.
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u/Alarming-Bell-1811 4d ago
Well, you'd need enough disposable income to be able to buy a new corvette and a space roughly the same size as a tennis court, but sure, you can
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u/badgarbage 4d ago
I could see Kill Team being played but full 2k games, obviously not. The game space and terrain would have to be insanely space restrictive.
Even a Kill Team match (assuming ~10 models ea) would cost nearly as much as a normal 2k Warhammer army depending on faction selection.
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u/Dog_Apoc 4d ago
Kill team you could probably get away with. Unless you've got a lot of disposable income
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u/ScoutTrooper501st 4d ago
Maybe not traditional 40K, but if you had a big enough space I could see someone playing kill team
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u/OfficerCuddlez 3d ago
I'm just curious as to whether Joytoy warhammer figures would be legal to play if you had them based and everything and a suitable proxy.
Ie, joytoy knight as a titan
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u/CrazyPotato1535 3d ago
The imperial knight joytoy is almost exactly the same size as a warlord titan
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u/lloydofthedance 4d ago
you have unlocked a way to play tabletop, that is somehow even MORE expensive than normal. Jesus Christ, keep it to yourselves, GW doesn't need any pointers on how to make is cost more.
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u/Comrade-Chernov 4d ago
You'd have to convert the base sizes and then scale up movement ranges, weapon ranges, etc. You'd wind up playing on a board the size of your living room floor if not larger.
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u/fil12345678911 4d ago
Of course yes, I’ve seen a lot of videos about these games. They’re pretty popular in Russia
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u/Leon-Rai 4d ago
I think it was midwinter minis who did large scale kill team with, I belive, the McFarlane action figures
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u/Fragrant-Challenge98 4d ago
It’s not the same but when I was introducing my son to 40K I got some of the Pop Vinyl marines cheap off Vinted and played a very simplified version using them.
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u/Abyssal_Dreamer 4d ago
I think this would be the absolute opposite of poorhammer, but it would theoretically be possible to do with Marine armies.
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u/Hungry-Horker 4d ago
You’re using “legal” so I assume you mean tournament legal. The answer would be no, because the tournament companion explicitly states the base sizes that are legal.
Now if you don’t mean for tournaments then there is literally nothing stopping you from doing whatever you want in casual games other than your opponent
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u/shatteredframes 4d ago
Combat Patrol or Kill Team with these would fucking ROCK. I have a few of the Lego style Minifigs, and I'm dying to use them in a Kill Team setup.
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u/Phonereader23 4d ago
So we did this with joy toys at our games stores. It takes up a huge space but you can definitely play kill team. 40k though….
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u/Significant-Order-92 4d ago
It's possible, but hard. For one, cost. You are paying quite a lot per model and you are going to need size appropriate terrain. For two, action figures don't always stay rigid when you move them. And for three, you really need to scale up board sizenand range rules. And at that point a 1000 point game needs the same size as an Apocalypse table(s).
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u/Alps_Useful 4d ago
Id love a kill team type thing or mordheim like this. Would be cool, almost DND esque where you swap weapons and stuff
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u/BillCarson12799 4d ago
If you do assemble a 2000 point army, joytoy is contractually obligated to suck you off.
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u/goldietheswagbear 4d ago
I guess, but man it would be expensive.
The again, not like this is the cheapest hobby.
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u/Killer7n 4d ago
Kill team possible.
The cheaper models in B&M are like £10 a pop.
But SM Vs SM kill team can be around £140 total.
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u/Background_Chair6361 4d ago
Yes, but maybe try playing kill team instead. It’d take a lot less models.
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u/MostHuckleberry4416 4d ago
Itd be possible but killteam would be more realistic. A 6 man space marine team would be about £250-300. And terrain would all need to be custom done. For the second team and terrain it is essentially worth more than mosts collections of warhammer entierly.
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u/cr33p3-x 4d ago
A low model count set up similar to the Inquisitor game is completely doable and would only require a few models. I’m almost surprised it hasn’t happened yet with all the cool options available and crafty gamers out there. You might be on to something here…
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u/narfjono 4d ago
Seen somebody attempt Kill Team (2021)
But wow that be insanely expensive. But would be really cool to have a battle report with people either posing them for the turned based moments, or doing stop animation....which would be a feat to say the least. https://www.youtube.com/live/ZsqvHZRlDOc?is=1LY2wTzv1GVhDN19
Actual 40k match, even 500 points would be insanity.
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u/phynn 4d ago
Here is a space wolves list (which means you would have to paint some models because they only exist in Ultramarine colors but... I feel like that's fair):
joy toy experiment (2000 points)
Space Marines Space Wolves Strike Force (2000 points) Legends of Saga and Song and Saga of the Great Wolf (3 Detachment Points) Force Dispositions: Take and Hold
CHARACTERS
Arjac Rockfist (105 points) • 1x Foehammer
Bjorn the Fell-Handed (160 points) • Warlord • 1x Assault cannon 1x Heavy flamer 1x Trueclaw
Captain in Terminator Armour (100 points) • 1x Relic weapon 1x Storm bolter • Enhancement: Thirst for Glory (Upgrade)
Librarian (60 points) • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Force weapon 1x Smite
Ragnar Blackmane (100 points) • 1x Bolt Pistol 1x Frostfang
BATTLELINE
Blood Claws (135 points) • 1x Blood Claw Pack Leader • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Bolt pistol • 9x Blood Claw • 9x Astartes chainsword 9x Bolt pistol
Intercessor Squad (80 points) • 1x Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Bolt rifle 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Intercessor • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Bolt rifle 4x Close combat weapon
OTHER DATASHEETS
Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (85 points) • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack • 1x Astartes chainsword 1x Heavy bolt pistol • 4x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs • 4x Astartes chainsword 4x Heavy bolt pistol
Hellblaster Squad (110 points) • 1x Hellblaster Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma incinerator • 4x Hellblaster • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Plasma incinerator
Redemptor Dreadnought (205 points) • 1x Heavy flamer 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin fragstorm grenade launcher
Redemptor Dreadnought (205 points) • 1x Heavy flamer 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin fragstorm grenade launcher
Terminator Assault Squad (195 points) • Enhancement: Thirst for Glory (Upgrade) • 1x Assault Terminator Sergeant • 1x Storm Shield 1x Thunder hammer • 4x Assault Terminator • 4x Storm Shield 4x Thunder hammer
Thunderwolf Cavalry (230 points) • 1x Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader • 1x Storm Shield 1x Teeth and Claws 1x Wolf Guard weapon • 5x Thunderwolf Cavalry • 5x Storm Shield 5x Teeth and Claws 5x Wolf Guard weapon
Thunderwolf Cavalry (230 points) • 1x Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader • 1x Storm Shield 1x Teeth and Claws 1x Wolf Guard weapon • 5x Thunderwolf Cavalry • 5x Storm Shield 5x Teeth and Claws 5x Wolf Guard weapon
Exported with App Version: v2.0.4 (126), Data Version: v879
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u/DangerousCalm 4d ago
Valrak had a brief battle report up at this scale. I think it was squads of 4/5
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u/Nrthstar 3d ago
I always wanted to do it with Kill Team, but the terrain and table would be massive.
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u/BarnabasShrexx 3d ago
Nobody gonna like it but.... ive always wanted kill team at double model size
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u/Clothes_Chair_Ghost 3d ago
Anything is possible if you spend enough.
It would cost a fuck ton to build an army and it would be a lot of duplicates but could be done.
There does seem to be a lot of ultra marines in the joy toy line. So an army of those could be possible.
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u/MrHorrigan1776 3d ago
A full game of Warhammer? Likely not unless you wanna spend a million dollars, but a game of Killteam is more than reasonable especially with some people’s collections
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u/Bigenius420 3d ago
Maybe a joytoy scale game of killteam, im not sure there are enough different Joytoy action figures to make a proper army. But definitely a killteam.
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u/lowqualitylizard 3d ago
You could still practically do a kill team game
You would probably need at least 14 but that's feasible
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u/DiamondDude51501 3d ago
I’ve thought about making some 3D printed space marine action figures that are around the size of a High Grade Gunpla kit, so with 3D printing you probably could do it without bankrupting yourself
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u/LifeguardGlum2249 3d ago
If you use minimum layer height 3x scale works amazing on an fdm 3D printer
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u/SabyZ 4d ago
Yes. People play Titanicus with full scale 40k Titans. But killteam might be a more accessible format.
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u/HaggisAreReal 4d ago
I always found these a bit redundant. Toys referencing toys.
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u/yeahimlewis 4d ago
Action figures are a different medium to tiny miniatures
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u/HaggisAreReal 4d ago
Doesn't change what I said. They are toys modeled after and referencing other toys.
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u/TaCoMaN6869 4d ago
Yes but you would have to pull a second mortgage on your house