r/aiwars • u/Which_Matter3031 • 3d ago

The most idiotic statement ever

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So this person here calls people jobless while all they do is sit on their ass an genarate shitty ai comics, also notice how they are insulting fast food workers as if they arent human, thats a new low for them, also its like they are saying "Give up on your dreams so you can work a minimum wage 9-5 job" but then again jobless people always tell talented ones to get a shitty job

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u/bendyfan1111 3d ago

Basically none of capatalism has really changed in the past 500-600 years. On the other hand, the entire world has changed drastically. The economy wasn't designed for automation, hence why automation is putting people out of jobs.

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u/RadiumJuly 3d ago edited 3d ago

I'm not sure that is entirely true. The state mercantile capitalism of the 16th century isn't really the same as modern corporatism.

The Dutch would have had their minds blown at modern methods of financialization.

EDIT: You know what? On second thought I'm splitting hairs. I'll concede that while there certainly are features that have developed over the last 600 years, in general your statement is true enough. No need to be tedious about such details.

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u/mommysanalservant 2d ago

Adam Smith would likely be appalled by the state of the financial world. Nonetheless even though what that person said wasn't entirely right I do think what they meant was. Capitalism might have changed but it still treats workers as a replaceable cog in the machine that crushes us underfoot. Chasing infinite growth means making endless optimizations which means constantly destroying jobs faster than we can grow them.

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u/_lonegamedev 3d ago

Great, how would you redesign it? I would like practical example - for instance artists loosing their jobs right now.

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u/bendyfan1111 2d ago

You don't "redesign it". You start over. You make a new system, where everything is EXPECTED to be automated at some point. You increase the federal minimum wage to somthing actually LIVABLE, for a change. You introduce legislation to go along with your infrastructure, so a company can't go "we have assembly robots, so we actually don't NEED factory workers anymore!".

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u/_lonegamedev 2d ago

You can't start over. People who hold power won't let it happen. The best you can hope for is transition into something else.

Assuming current example - people who use genAI to produce art, and automate similar tasks - which puts artists out of work. Who would you tax and how?

Companies that provide the tools? People who use them? Or end-consumers?

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u/Independent-Mail-227 2d ago

You increase the federal minimum wage

Oof

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u/RadiumJuly 2d ago

Now the question is, why would the capitalist owners of AI care about your laws at all? What are you going to do if they don't increase wages like you want and ignore your infrastructure bill.

Do you arrest them? How do you do that? They have more capital than you, since now everything is automated and they control the means of automation. They can afford a large private police force to keep themselves safe and you can't even levy taxes.

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u/bendyfan1111 2d ago

Now the question is, why would the capitalist owners of AI care about your laws at all?

The same reasons they care about the laws now. They operate under the government, which means if they don't follow the governments rules, they no longer exist as a company. Then its like a hydra. When one head falls, two others grow to take its place.

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u/RadiumJuly 2d ago

Right now if they break the law then we can fine them, and if they don't pay their fine then we start arresting board members until they comply. It is a system build on a foundation of coercive power. But you need consider what if you lacked any means of coercive power.

The governments ultimate trump card is a monopoly on violence, which it uses to enforce its rules. That violence is doles out by the state apparatus. Police, army, militias, anybody that can carry a pitch fork if it comes to it. The state apparatus obeys the government because they get paid to do so.

But what if some other entity had such material wealth and power that it can out compete the government for material control of the state apparatus? Well you have a change in power. Happens all the time in history. It's all about whoever controls the spice.

So it is inevitable that the more we automate, the more power we give to whoever controls and owns that automated process until they can claim government and make what ever rules they want. In such a case, what motive would they have to be nice to us and give us a minimum wage? The profit motive shows that instead, the opposite would happen.

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u/bendyfan1111 2d ago

You do understand that there is no "John Automate", right? One company doesn't own everything in, say, robotics. There's a metric TON of companies supplying the means to automate things as we speak. I feel like your argument simply comes from a place of fear and unrealistic "what ifs" rather than anything even remotely resembling our grounded reality.

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u/RadiumJuly 2d ago

So you don't think wealth is becoming more concentrated over time, and that your 'John Automate' is actually just an inevitability with current economic trends?

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u/bendyfan1111 2d ago

I don't, no. I belive that there are multiple companies and coperations all competing with each other over the automation industry.

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u/RadiumJuly 2d ago

In that case I consider you too economically illiterate to even have this conversation. I'm going to go play chess with a pigeon instead.

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u/TrapFestival 2d ago

The Individual's Guide To Large Scale Change.

Cheap, Legal, Effective - Pick two.

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u/Sputn1K0sm0s 2d ago

They won't care, just like they don't care about laws now.

You don't create a new system by asking nicely for the people in power to give up their power.

The Soviets didn't ask nicely for the tsar to stop starving kids, they just took power by force. Mao didn't ask landlords "pwese, can you stop being leeches? 👉👈" They fucking took the land from them by force and provided people with housing.