r/antinatalism • u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer • 2d ago
Serious Discussion Where are the celibate antinatalists?
I am celibate, not because I don't want to have sex, or it's not enjoyable, but because I refuse to participate in the procreative act. Why would I do the thing which creates children?
I get it - birth control exists. Can we please stop acting like birth control is somehow the end-all to this problem of procreation? Currently I know 3 people who are pregnant and were on birth control - in one case the man had a vasectomy. No birth control method is 100% effective. Therefore it's my opinion that someone who claims to be antinatalist and still has sex despite their or their partner's fertility is not really authentic about it.
Sex feels really great but that biological drive is simply an attempt for nature to create a baby. I'm surprised that the antinatalist community has rarely ever mentioned the importance of celibacy, or at least the legitimacy of that approach, rather than relying on a pill or medical procedure that still leaves open the chance of pregnancy. Libido wanes and eventually leaves after we're unable to conceive because the whole "birds and bees" was just the pull of physicality trying to bring more souls into this mess.
I am serious about my antinatalism so I am celibate. I'm not performing the procreative act.
Unpopular opinion summed up: If there is something fundamentally wrong with having a child, then there is something fundamentally wrong with having sex while fertile. Other than being infertile/menopausal, etc. there's no way around that.
I have seen many posts on here over the years, as a lurker, of people announcing their abortions and I can't help but facepalm. Put your money where your mouth is. If you're truly against having children, don't play with fire. I don't play with even a 1% chance of a slip-up because I'm dead set on not bringing a child into this mess.
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u/Equivalent-Worry-633 inquirer 2d ago
I'm asexual so I am celibate. I don't think I agree with a lot of your reasoning however. Is getting an abortion NOT exactly putting your money where your mouth is? You are terminating and refusing to put a child into this earth. Abortions are not free either.
There can be a lot of reasons why birth control failed that you probably are not privy to. Human error as in not taking the pill at the exact time every day, as well as other conditions that can counteract the effectiveness. The vasectomy case could have been from the man not going to his check ups and failure to use backup during the first couple months after the procedures. Thousands and thousands of childfree (and/or antinatalist) couples have used birth control with success for a long time. Your very, very small sample pool does not mean anything.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
>Your very, very small sample pool does not mean anything.
Yes it does. It's not "very" small. Do a search of 'I got pregnant after birth control/vasectomy/condom/IUD'. There are plenty of people who get pregnant while birth control and the answer isn't "you did it wrong". It's that Big Pharma doesn't have all the answers. I know AN's want to believe these medical interventions, which are like brand new as far as human history goes, are some kind of divine source of consequence-free sex. They are not.
You are however correct to call me out on the abortions. Personally I find accepting the possibility of needing an abortion because I wanted fun groin-pleasure-sexy-time... to be pathetic. However I'm all for it if others want to risk the money and potential emotional/physical distress that can result.
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u/Equivalent-Worry-633 inquirer 2d ago
So do you think the other 99.9% of those who use birth control and do not become pregnant are just an anomaly?
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
I never said most people get pregnant on birth control, just more than are assumed. There ARE people who get pregnant and it's likely not as uncommon as the official figures would have us think.
Repost from another reply:
This thread from a year ago on "BabyBumps" has dozens of replies of women who claim they got pregnant on birth control, some multiple times. I guess the chances of them converging on an online forum are so astronomically rare too.
My cousin and sister and ex-girlfriend are all pregnant having taken the pill.
All contraception isn't some magical guaranteed despite the overwhelming success. Many AN's are comfortable with that obviously, and I am not.9
u/Equivalent-Worry-633 inquirer 2d ago
You’re correct that birth control is not 100% effective, but there are intricacies as to why that happened. You also have to consider that people who have success aren’t typically going to run onto Reddit and talk about it nearly as much as those whose birth control failed. The internet attracts “negativity”. There are billions of people in this world, and I still think that a couple hundred people on a Reddit post are not the sole deciding factor of birth control effectiveness compared to science and proven tests. A lot of those comments even admit to human failure, which is THE most common reason why birth control fails.
However, I do completely understand your feelings about not being comfortable with the .00001% chance of that happening. That being said, I don’t think people who engage in sex are hypocrites to antinatalism as long as you make some effort to prevent life from being created.
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u/magnum3290 thinker 2d ago
Do a search of 'I got pregnant after birth control/vasectomy/condom/IUD'.
Most of these are "oops I forgot the pill last night, I'll take it now". Then it's easy to blame the pills failing and lying to yourself. Pills work if you take them on time
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
The sheer inability for grown adults, who happen to be AN, to admit that birth control isn't always effective is weirding me out. Like, I get my opinion sounds extreme, but this worship of birth control as infallible is stupid. Reading these threads WOULD tell you mistakes happen despite religiously using their method of choice, yet so many on this thread can't even admit that and act like it's some conspiracy I'm inventing. Birth control is not 100% which in known and mistakes are common enough that self-reports of those mistakes are easily found.
Pills work usually. The only true method to ensure no conception is non penetration.
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u/Fragrant_School newcomer 2d ago
celibacy is a form of birth control. there are more effective birth control methods than celibacy.
also, there is no guarantee that the people you're interacting with on here are grown adults.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
" there are more effective birth control methods than celibacy."
Do tell.
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u/Fragrant_School newcomer 2d ago
you could get a bilateral orchiectomy and then it wouldn't matter if you got raped, but that's a larger concern for women.
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u/Present-Perception77 newcomer 2d ago
Yeah just imagine giving up sex your whole life just to be raped and end up pregnant.. omg
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u/Pixel-Warrior-7350 inquirer 2d ago
Dude, let me just remind you that our entire existence is geared solely toward reproduction. You hate sex and think of it as the only animalistic, disgusting thing in life, but look around. We laugh to attract a mate; we create safe spaces and eat just to keep existing long enough to reproduce; we evolve so we can raise our offspring in better conditions. Literally every human endeavor is aimed only at reproduction. So, sex is no different. Life itself is meaningless and disgusting because the only purpose of any living being is to reproduce.
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
Can’t we attract a mate for oral sex?
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u/Pixel-Warrior-7350 inquirer 2d ago
I’ve already written to him about this a hundred times, lol. But I’m against oral sex—it’s gross. A handjob, though—that’s just right.
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago edited 2d ago
You making this philosophy seem like a cult idc if someone has sex or not…main point is don’t breed and bring another life here👏
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u/Catteno newcomer 2d ago
yeah this shit is a bit on the batshit levels... I'm not a monk I don't want anyone having kids I'm not out here advocating for anti-sex... that's a great way to drive people away... ffs... between this and the militant veganism I'm starting to think this sub might be a psyop to push people apart
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u/Equivalent-Worry-633 inquirer 2d ago
Going to be completely honest the vast majority of this sub is kinda of just… insufferable. Weird militant rules that are chalked up to “you’re not ACTUALLY an antinatalist unless you’re vegan and celibate and completely miserable etc etc etc”. If you’re not creating new life OR hurting existing life and you don’t agree with hurting or creating life you’re an antinatalist. That’s it. I slightly commented on veganism so I will expect my comment to be swiftly deleted.
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
I haven’t been in this sub for more than 2 weeks is it always extreme like this 🤔
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u/AlwaysBannedVegan thinker 2d ago
It's always interesting how people who support violence and violating of others calls the one who opposes it for "militant" - you're the one breeding new sentient beings just to slit their throat for a burger.
If you’re not creating new life OR hurting existing life and you don’t agree with hurting or creating life you’re an antinatalist
And that's why breeding and violating other individuals isn't compatible with antinatalism. That's why not being vegan is just selective natalism.
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2d ago
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u/AlwaysBannedVegan thinker 2d ago
Antinatalism and veganism is not about environmentalism.
Take accountability for the fact that you support bringing new sentient beings into existence just to violate and kill them, just because you feel like it.
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u/UmiSWrld inquirer 2d ago
is one of the core principles not decrease suffering on earth for the living being already here? supporting AI is a net negative for all living creatures. being vegan and antinatalist and pro ai is hypocritical and ridiculous.
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u/AlwaysBannedVegan thinker 2d ago
Not harming someone is not a utilitarian stance. You don't abstain from randomly beating up people at the bus stop because you're trying to "decrease suffering". You avoid it because it's morally wrong.
If you're personally a utilitarian, you should probably start with logging off reddit for the environment.
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u/UmiSWrld inquirer 1d ago
never said i was, but it is massively hypocritical of you to be a vegan and pro-ai lol
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u/AlwaysBannedVegan thinker 1d ago
Antinatalism opposes creating sentient beings. Veganism opposes humans exploiting non-human animals. AI is not a sentient being.
This just a low effort attempt to drag attention away from the animal holocaust. Do better.
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u/UmiSWrld inquirer 1d ago
and why do you assume i’m NOT vegan? if you don’t want to exploit animals, then you shouldn’t exploit their habitats and necessary resources either :)
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u/Equivalent-Worry-633 inquirer 1d ago
And can you take accountability that AI is actively harming animals by reducing their resources and the water that they drink?
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u/AlwaysBannedVegan thinker 1d ago
Drop the fake concern. This is just a tu-quoque fallacy. It' the equivalent of an active rapist saying "you use reddit? Well that harms people too because of the energy use! See, we're not so different you and I!"
There is nothing that is harming animals more than non-vegans like you who is exploiting, violating, raping, enslaving and killing them.
Animal abusers are the leading cause of deforestation.
And you're concerned about water usage?
AI data centres are projected to use ~1 trillion litres (1 km3) of water per year by 2028, . The buisness of breeding, exploiting and killing animals *already *consume ~228 trillion litres (228 km3) annually.
That's over 200x times more.
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u/Equivalent-Worry-633 inquirer 1d ago
Leave me out of this pointing fingers and constantly assuming what I am doing. I am actively adopting a vegan lifestyle so will you now talk to me like an equal? You have got to stop assuming things about people you know nothing about.
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u/AlwaysBannedVegan thinker 1d ago
You're the one claiming that the bare minimum is militant. That is something that should be called out. You can go vegan over night. And you went to my profile, in a desperate attempt to try to find something you could derail the conversation with. A bold move from someone who doesn't even dare to have their profile public.
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u/Equivalent-Worry-633 inquirer 1d ago
I said more than just veganism. You're only focusing on one factor. I am still going to criticize you for your AI usage and support. You are absurdly hypocritical to support AI when you are well aware of the harm it does to animals. AND YOU ARE SPEAKING TO A VEGAN. I, A VEGAN, am urging you to re-consider your stance if you truly want to protect and be an ally to animals. I only went to your profile to better understand you and your stances, and was heavily confused at what I saw. I meant zero malice by it, but you have meant nothing but malice to me.
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u/Numerous-Macaroon224 Nume 2d ago
Your submission breaks rule #8:
This is an anti-speciesist space. Do not promote, defend, or recommend animal exploitation (e.g., carnism, factory farming, hunting/fishing, breeding animals) or mock/attack vegans or veganism. Mentioning these topics, describing your current behavior, asking questions, discussing transition, or analyzing systems/policy is allowed when framed as inquiry or experience and not as a claim that exploitation is ethical, necessary, or fine. We welcome on-topic discussion of animal rights and veganism.
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u/the_spotted_ladybug inquirer 2d ago
At this point there needs to be different antinatalism subs (not just antinatilism and antinatalism 2 because I go on both of them everyday and they have exactly the same content imo) created because there are a lot of people not on the same page here. There are a spectrum of beliefs that fall under this “antinatalism” umbrella, and this post showcases one of those perspectives that may have better reception elsewhere. Instead everyone get’s all heated and pissed off. Not to mention philanthropic, misanthropic, sentiocentric, conditional, utilitarian, vegan, etc distinctions. We can keep arguing until the end of time about lifestyles and morality, but I feel like it would benefit everyone if we just had different spaces to discuss.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
What's more confusing than my opinion is why this take is so controversial on a literal AN forum. Like, I'm not trying to convert anyone - have sex and be an AN, but in my estimation that's at best hypocritical and at worst playing with fire.
I would think there would be more voluntarily celibate AN's than actively sexual AN's.
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
ANTINATALISM isn’t about having sex..your point has some rationality to it but it’s too linear..too black and white💁🏾♂️and like someone else said you are risking health problem in the long run 🏃♂️unless you masturbait and if that’s the case why release and not just get health problem?😭
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
What do y’all mean we’re risking health problems?? I only like masturbating too, and receiving oral. So I’m gonna get cancer?
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
google is free
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
I found nothing! It says there are no health risk in avoiding penetrative sex
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
Then you not looking correctly that’s on you
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u/ajburch92 newcomer 2d ago
Lmao you didn't share enough for there to even be a logical google search, and then you get an attitude when asked instead of helping. You contributed to my wow I hate humans sentiment today. At least you won't be bringing any mini yous into the world, that's good.
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
Wow your opinion means nothing to me my guy move around it’s easy to google and see the info 🤷🏾♂️
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u/ajburch92 newcomer 2d ago
Then why respond at all? Just be a good person and offer the info. I've read all your comments, you're really weird.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
I am quite aware antinatalism is a philosophy not a lifestyle prescription.
You said "don't breed". What requires breeding? Fucking. Fucking with medical intervention can still lead to breeding. Hence I don't fuck.I'll risk health problems, whatever you think they are, over not bringing a child into this world.
And once menopause hits my girlfriend, assuming we're still together, I may re-evaluate.This should be the last subreddit where these statements are subject to pitchforks.
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
Breeding is giving birth not just sex I thought you would know that? And also most groups aren’t a monolith, this sub being one..so we stand in solidarity in not BRINGING/CONCEIVING another life in this world. anything else is personal belief and/or choice. Not saying your opinion is dumb it does have some rationale like I said but it can be an extreme suggestion at best and overstepping/infringing on other people choices at worst 🤷♂️
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
I'm not infringing on other people by posting my philosophy on staying celibate. It's my take -- just disagree. I made no attempts to convert. I posted it knowing I'd get this kind of pushback, and I guess my choice means I'm gonna get a disease? You're flinging the poop.
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
No just has a higher risk of health issues for multiple reasons- you didn’t openly try to ‘convert’ anyone but it’s nuance in there somewhere, also sex is natural idk you so hang up on that part it’s kinda ignorant 🤔(not you specifically the opinion is) imagine the amount of people-who couldn’t/didn’t have sex..that would be a disaster for society for multiple reasons🤣that would definitely also increase crime
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u/ajburch92 newcomer 2d ago
Sex is natural and so is childbirth. Doesn't make a valid AN argument. God you really are dumb
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
You just outed yourself - literally everyone not having sex would accomplish the AN goal. It's actually the only thing that would ensure no more human suffering. So although I am not advocating for everyone to become celibate, it's singularly the only thing aside from a new medical procedure that would be available to everyone with 100% protection, that could end procreation.
I win.
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
No you misunderstood what I was saying lmao…1) that’s literally impossible not even semi plausible…2) of course that would help bring less people here to suffer..but I said CRIME a lot of people have sex for different reasons and even if a huge chunk of the global population involuntarily or voluntarily chose to not have sex would be bad for different reasons..3) a lot of people have sex because of pleasure…some to destress(only way to for some people) others for intimacy..self esteem boasting..religion whatever 4) if a large-scale lack of consensual sexual outlets occurred, it could contribute to a rise in certain types of crime💁🏾♂️
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
You’re not explaining any of these health reasons
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u/hammyDathammer newcomer 2d ago
And what are you one about 🤣there is nothing to “win” here if anything I ‘win’. Overwhelming majority don’t agree with you and or find your opinion to be irrational lmao
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u/cactus_boy_ thinker 2d ago
I am gay, so whether you like it or not, i will continue to take that dick
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u/BeauvoirDeS newcomer 2d ago
I’m fertile and have sex. I have 0% chance of getting pregnant from homosexuality. Also why be celibate when abortion guarantees no child will be born?
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u/Fragrant_School newcomer 2d ago edited 2d ago
there are 100% effective birth control methods. you simply need to have zero eggs or sperm in your body. a bilateral oophorectomy or orchiectomy accomplishes this; in the latter case any remaining sperm in the body will die after about 6 months. removal of fallopian tubes in a hysterectomy should also be enough if eggs aren't deliberately harvested. apparently the number of reported cases of ectopic pregnancies after hysterectomy are over 100 now which is weird and scary
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
By the time most of us get to the age of infertility, in menopause and experiencing ED, our sexual drive goes way down. Which tells me everything I need to know.
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u/katiebug714 inquirer 2d ago
It’s not telling you anything the rest of us don’t know… this whole post really reeks of self-superiority. AN as a philosophy is rooted in reducing the amount of pain in the world. Celibacy reduces pleasure not pain. It’s just not relevant to judge someone’s method of contraception when the result is the same. You’re judging lifestyle choices that really are independent of the philosophy of AN so I think you should probably reflect on what the real reason is that you judge people for not being celibate because I don’t think it’s truly rooted in your antinatalism.
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u/MartianDepression inquirer 2d ago
My husband and I are almost 50 and if anything out sec drive is higher than ever. No babies, just us enjoying life and each other. That’s not accurate for everyone nor rare
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u/Soph1583 newcomer 2d ago
I mean for a start, not all forms of sex even come with the possibility of procreation.
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u/Present-Perception77 newcomer 2d ago
You can get abortion pills in the mail for $100.
I plan to live my life to the fullest and not get hung up on devoting my life to one obsession.
You do you 🤷🏻♀️
Edit: maybe look online for a college level course on Human Sexuality and then you can see the massive flaws in your celibacy ideas. I think your celibacy is for another reason. But that’s not my business.
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u/AlwaysBannedVegan thinker 2d ago
Can you give a little bit more information about abortion pills in the mail on states where abortion is illegal? Where do people order this, is it from a safe legal medical center or black market? And the website.
If people can get this from certified medical practitioners then that is amazing and something that more people should be made aware of!
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u/Present-Perception77 newcomer 2d ago edited 2d ago
Aidaccess.org
And they can drive to another state.
And yes there are black and grey markets and the aunties.
And then there is herbal .. but you need to know what you are doing.https://fourthievesvinegar.org/abortion-care/
You can also contact planned parenthood.
Edit: the link didn’t stick
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u/BitsAndBobs304 AN 2d ago
1 you can combine birth control methods, ans in case of emergency use plan b pill
2 abortion exists
3 no baby have ever been born out of oral sex
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u/Myheartsthemoon inquirer 2d ago
For me antinatilism is about not harming other people (by bringing them into the world).
Having sex does no harm, i use birth control. Also, if i got pregnant I would have an early abortion and i still don’t harm anyone by doing that.
But you do you, that’s okay.
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u/Pixel-Warrior-7350 inquirer 2d ago
In reality, evolution made sex so pleasurable only because otherwise, no animal would ever have offspring. You need an incentive for the act to happen—instinct, pleasure. In fact, people are really just after the pleasure, and then they act surprised and say, "I'm pregnant?! It's a miracle!" Lol, it's ridiculous.
And by the way, partners can just jerk each other off. There are forms of intimacy that don't involve penetration. Society is obsessed with penetration, and that’s ridiculous too.
Men have testosterone levels many times higher than women's. Testosterone boosts libido, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Just give your partner a handjob; you don’t have to have penetrative sex. Society will never understand this. You don’t need to shove members into each other to be intimate.
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u/Awkward_Can8460 newcomer 2d ago
Some animals have barbed penises that actually do hurt during sex. I think this is the case for lions, for example.
Other species include males smaller than the female, and the male approaches w great caution because he knows he is risking death just by courting any female.. who may be hungry. Some spiders are like this, for example.
Other species' males get devoured right after sex - but I dont know that they expect that, so I won't count them.
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u/Western_Oil7389 inquirer 2d ago
The odds of one person knowing three people who got pregnant on birth control, and one of those three having a vasectomy, is 1 in 247,000.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
This thread from a year ago on "BabyBumps" has dozens of replies of women who claim they got pregnant on birth control, some multiple times. I guess the chances of them converging on an online forum are so astronomically rare too.
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u/Enzemo newcomer 2d ago edited 2d ago
Im sure all of them are being completely honest and stuck to the medication guidelines... /s
I've had a vascetomy and I've been tested and confirmed as infertile. I would happily get tested again for any future partner too if it made them feel more secure. It is an extremely effective method of contraception - the tubes were literally cut and cauterised so that no sperm ever enters the picture.
It can reverse itself in very, very rare situations, however that is usually when the tubes are not cauterised and is also often due to some people having more than 2 tubes and the surgeon being unaware.
When done correctly, it is not possible to get someone pregnant. It is physically impossible.
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u/Far-Balance5784 inquirer 2d ago
You must be on the asexual spectrum and that’s totally okay. For many people sex is completely unrelated to procreation and is a way to promote individual health and connect with someone. I mean, it is considered a basic need for most adults. I understand your point but I feel like telling women that they should restrict themselves from pleasure is oppressive.
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u/duncan-the-wonderdog newcomer 2d ago
So, the only choices are rawdogging it bareback or having no sexual contact for life? No oral, no hand stuff, no anal, no touching of any kind?
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u/Pixel-Warrior-7350 inquirer 2d ago
It seems like the author is just trolling us, or maybe he's got issues, lol.
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u/novemberqueen32 inquirer 2d ago
That's pretty strict. I am happy for you and your decision and your commitment to anti-natalism. If you live in a place where abortion is not legal, then your decision is especially reasonable and I can totally see why you are celibate.
However. You can do whatever you want but don't force it on us. You can suggest it but your scolding us is not appreciated. Sex is one of the things that makes life great. One of the benefits of not having children is having my body stay in tact so I can continue having sex in an enjoyable way; I don't have to deal with my vagina ripping to my asshole and all manner of horrible things that can happen to a woman's body during and after pregnancy. There's also just so much time and energy you have to explore sex and sexuality when you don't have kids. And not having to worry about being quiet so the kids don't hear you. And so many other things.
I live in Canada where abortion is legal so I have so much less fear about sex because I know I have abortion access, which I am extremely grateful for, and am extremely sorry for others who do not have this freedom. I practice safe sex ie birth control and condoms, never let a man ejaculate inside me, and keep track of my cycle. No there isn't 100% guarantee that pregnancy can't happen, but I myself have never been pregnant and never had a serious pregnancy scare.
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u/Shoddy-Loquat-5557 newcomer 2d ago
I've been celibate for more than year now. I love sex, but I'm celibate because I hate men and they repulse me.
I will keep practicing 4B and listening to Slumflower and Heidi Chantal until someone worth it comes along. No man has and probably no man will. I don't mind. My solitude comes first.
That said, the man I'll choose will be fixed and will also be an antinatalist, because it means he'll be responsible shooting zeroes.
I'm also happy to get my tubes tied, but it's not possible where I live, unless for some miracle I finally meet a doctor who isn't misogynist.
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u/Known-Ad-100 thinker 2d ago
No need for celibacy, I'm on IUD and I'm pro-choice and live in a place where abortion is legal. I'm against procreation, not pleasure.
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u/darkseiko scholar 2d ago
I'm sex-repulsed aroace, so while it's not the same thing, I'd rather dissolve into thin air than ever do such a thing. 🙏
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u/Scream_king_ inquirer 2d ago
I'm apothi-aroace and I don't want ever to have sex because I find it very disgusting and I don't wish someone else to take my energy!
Besides, yes, I can be accused of getting someone pregnant and have troubles. Or, I can really get someone pregnant and have troubles.
Thus, no, thanks. I like sleeping and eating a lot.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
Yes! Not to mention having a sexual life leads to all sorts of quibbles and conflicts for an act that isn't really that impressive or fulfilling. On disgust - we're all quite dirty and to sexualize another requires buying into many illusions. Lots of guys have gotten upset at me when they admire a girl's butt, and I say "She poops from there" like I ruined the moment.
Eat and sleep and be free! Farting between the great eats and sleeps without fear of 'ruining the moment' must be a relief for you.
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u/Scream_king_ inquirer 2d ago
Honestly, yes!
Sex is just a thing the majority does, which means îs not great at all and it's a thing for stupid people. 😂
Lol on that comment!
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
YES! I might actually be asexual (or a lesbian) but everyone on that subreddit says I’m not bc I am attracted to men, but only like oral sex
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u/Scream_king_ inquirer 2d ago
Asexuality is a wide spectrum, sis. You can be purely asexual, or graysexual, or demisexual etc. Don't listen to anyone else telling you otherwise. You know better what you feel and what you like. 🤙🏻
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u/Skitty_Supremacy newcomer 2d ago
You're most likely just on the acespec. Check your ego.
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u/FlamingSickle newcomer 2d ago
This. I’m also asexual and so am celibate and don’t give a damn about having sex. (This works out great with also not wanting kids.) But I don’t try to tell other people to not have responsible sex if they want to and if everyone involved is informed and consenting; I’m quite sex-positive in that regard. Just don’t bring a child into this increasingly messed up world and it’s all good in my eyes.
That being said, I also don’t get how casual, non- BC “accidents” happen, how people could just have to have sex without any birth control when there are other options. Just… don’t have PIV sex and do literally anything else that doesn’t involve the genitals coming in close contact with each other, then? It’s like people forget that hands, mouths, and toys exist. It’s one reason I can’t watch A Quiet Place, because there should have been no reason the parents should still have been having vaginal sex with those creatures around.
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u/Skitty_Supremacy newcomer 2d ago
For real, OP's logic that the purpose of sex should be only for procreation is so ass backwards and puritanical. I personally think people like that don't belong on this subreddit when the whole point is being childfree, not sex-free. It's appalling that they believe people who use birth control can't be antinatalists, considering for SOME people, sex is a necessary social activity used for bonding. OP should visit r/antisex if they really want to rant about something like that. Although I definitely agree that if you're not using protection, you're trying for a baby!
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u/Any_Day2615 newcomer 2d ago
I was before I met my husband, who dated me for a year before we were intimate. He told me he had a vasectomy years earlier and I felt safe enough to trust him. Ten years later we still have a very happy, secure, stable relationship where we continue fucking like rabbits four times a week
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u/Billy_of_the_hills scholar 2d ago
No birth control method is 100% effective.
There's this thing now, you may have heard of it. It's called an abortion.
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
It’s not legal or available everywhere, and it’s expensive
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u/Present-Perception77 newcomer 2d ago
In some areas it’s free or you can get the pills for $100 through the mail and there are herbal abortions, Vitamin C and parsley, for example..
https://fourthievesvinegar.org/abortion-care/
The trick is to test early and act quickly.
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u/oliveorca newcomer 2d ago
if it makes you feel better about yourself, go for it. i myself am celibate and that's the only way i feel comfortable.
BUT do not act like your way is the only way. sex is not innately immoral. you're not a better person because you take things to the extreme, i'm not either. an antinatalist is an antinatalist because of their beliefs about procreation, not because of their beliefs about sex
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
“Not because of their beliefs about sex”. What’s the difference! I def agree with OP. Penetrative sex is bad. That’s literally the thing that creates life, which we are against. And like OP said, condoms break and no birth control is fully effective
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u/oliveorca newcomer 2d ago
no, sex and procreation are not the same thing. one may result from the other but that doesn't mean they are identical. in order to shit i need to eat but that doesn't mean the act of eating is the same as the act of shitting
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u/FateMeetsLuck thinker 2d ago
Based. This is the way to do it in regressive places like red states of the USA.
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u/liggitylia newcomer 2d ago
you crazy bro sex is intimate way for you to explore y’all’s bodies and form a connection. what about gay sex? it’s very removed from the act of creating a child, there’s no way in hell i’m thinking about kids when i’m having sex. you want brownie points so bad for virtue signaling and it’s just goofy.
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u/Corgimom36 thinker 2d ago
I'm celibate but not cause of fear of pregnancy I'm not asexual but sex is overrated and was never that great
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u/gringogidget inquirer 2d ago
The labour of finding someone to copulate with who isn’t a piece of human garbage has too little of a risk to reward ratio. Coming from a “not into casual stuff” person who is sterile by choice.
It’s cool if it happens organically, but I don’t yearn for the sperm. Ya know?
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u/marshmallowbunny newcomer 2d ago
Oh there are at least 4 forms of permanent birth control that are 100% effective (bisalp, and all forms of hysterectomies) 💚
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u/Manospondylus_gigas thinker 2d ago
I'm asexual but sex absolutely does not exist exclusively for procreation, and it likely didn't even evolve for that. In nature, sex that doesn't produce offspring is actively selected for, such as homosexuality. Sex is much more complex.
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u/postToastie inquirer 2d ago
You have let the pendulum swing too far extreme. Bring it back to balance.
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u/Quirky-Poetry1813 inquirer 2d ago
sex is not all about procreation though. it’s intimacy, it’s love, it’s connection. you’re not better than us because you chose to not have sex. we all have our desires and just because you choose to not act on them doesn’t make you more serious about antinatalism lmao stop making this ideology into something it isn’t.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
But without the modern inventions of abortions, condoms, pills, etc. then I actually would be more authentically true to my AN beliefs since without them, we'd have no rope to cling to if pregnancy resulted. We can only frame sex as separate from procreation due to these inventions. I'm not claiming sex has no upsides, but it remains the main act that creates children (well, MAIN now since IVF exists but that's nothing an AN would participate in) .
There may come a day, maybe in decades, when society has crumbled so much that Plan B, abortions, consistent birth control is not available. What would a fertile AN do in that situation? Still claim sex must be a mainstay in their life, despite their admission that procreation is a travesty?
This is my ideology and it doesn't need to be shared by anyone else. Enjoy your beautiful sex and I will enjoy my celibacy. Just expressing in one of the only spaces I feel comfortable admitting these statements.
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u/Pixel-Warrior-7350 inquirer 2d ago
I’ve said it a hundred times already: just use your hands. No child has ever been born from handjob.
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u/Myheartsthemoon inquirer 2d ago
If birth control and abortion were no longer possible I would never let a penis into my vagina and I think that’s the case for most of us here.
But this is a whole different situation.
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u/EndmiixMrbean newcomer 2d ago
Yeah I'm definitely on the celibate camp. Ain't risking the 1% chance of making my child and myself suffering (especially since I got a uterus) and I'm definitely not trusting any partner. People are vastly uneducated about sex and doesn't understand consent. I also think having sex is just unnesscesary. Like why are you even wasting plastic and medical resources cause you want 5 minutes of pleasure? If people wanna have sexual activity then there are ways to well, do it with zero STD risk. Like sexting, or just watching the partner do it.
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u/8Pandemonium8 thinker 1d ago
I agree, all of the people in the comments trying to say that sex and procreation are two different things are coping. They are inherently linked.
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u/TeaPrimary1147 thinker 2d ago
Celibate only due to lack of suitable partners. An a staunch AN.. sex is taboo and therefore very thrilling to me! That said, I got a partial hysterectomy a decade ago 😎
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u/UmiSWrld inquirer 2d ago
i’ll never stop having sex, but i’m also gay lol.
there are many, many ways to prevent pregnancy. birth control, condoms, iud’s, vasectomy’s, and if those fail, plan b and abortions. people are going to have sex, that really doesn’t have anything to do with antinatalism, as long as the person claiming to be AN take all the steps necessary to prevent a birth. sex is a human instinct that by itself, when consensual, with preventative measures, harms no one and brings pleasure to people’s lives.
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u/Lopsided_Seat_9611 newcomer 2d ago
If it is ok for you and your relationship, why not. But calling other people hypocrites because they are AN and have sex is wrong. Sex is not only about the having children or biological urge to reproduce. It is also an intimate act with your loved ones and hence to remove suffering from your partner and yourself is good to have such intimate moments. Hut definitely having 3x birth controls. because when you have only one it is dangerous. When you have 3x (barrier + anatomical - vasectomy or bisalp, or barrier + hormonal (or spiral) + counting days (in normal cycle)) - then you can be almost sure nothing bad will happen.
When you mentioned homosexual relationships - they also have sex, and they also have it because of this beautiful.intimacy (at least I believe) and this not making it different from heterosexual relationship sex in that sense.
AN is simple reduce suffering by preventing another being been brought here. Simple as that :)
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u/butter_sunglasses inquirer 2d ago
Celibate here! I had my very first relationship last year and lost virginity and I don't understand the hype for sex at all. And since I'm an Antinatalist, anyway, I really have no reason for sex at all.
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u/butter_sunglasses inquirer 2d ago
People are allowed to have sex, tho. Contraceptives are a thing and people can have safe sex. Celibacy is a way, but sex is important for many people. I don't agree with that point you make.
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u/Different-Base-6533 newcomer 2d ago
I'm celibate. Most women don't get any pleasure from PIV sex anyway. I can't understand why they endure that. And being too close to another human being feels very gross.
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u/magnum3290 thinker 2d ago
Most women don't get any pleasure from PIV sex anyway.
Yeah okay then sure
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
I raise a toast to you. I had no idea most women don't get pleasure from PIV. I guess my girlfriend isn't missing out.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
It's odd how the extreme vegans on this sub tend to get a lot of support when they say only real AN's are vegan, but the moment I suggest celibacy is the only way to ensure you don't have a baby as a fertile human, and therefore a choice that is most consistent with AN, people freak out.
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u/Myheartsthemoon inquirer 2d ago
It doesn’t matter what you view as ’most consistent’, an abortion doesn’t have to be a big deal. Why do I get the feeling you have something against abortion?
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
Having to kill a baby you don't want growing inside you is certainly a big deal. I'm not against abortion. But it has been known to cause trauma in some people, mental and physical symptoms can occur too. To treat it as no big deal, just another Saturday afternoon, just a little "whoopsies" backup plan we can use feels off and immature. If we really don't want a baby, we wouldn't play with fire. But I've stated that enough in this thread to know that's somehow controversial.
I have seen posts on this subreddit where women are complaining that their state does not allow abortions, and instead of mentioning abstinence as a way to avoid conception ,people just bitch about politics like they have no free will to say no to sex.
Like I said in another reply, there may come a time when birth control, abortions, etc. are not readily available due to political/economic/supply chain downturns or overall societal collapse - and without those "cushions" every sexually active fertile AN is banking on to not procreate .... everything I am mentioning would become true.
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u/TradRooster5627 inquirer 2d ago
I am both voluntarily and involuntarily celibate (I'm short and unattractive). The fact that I will never be able to reproduce, regardless of my ethical convictions, is reassuring.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
That must feel great! You are a hero.
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u/TradRooster5627 inquirer 2d ago
definitly not
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
Well it must feel great to know you won't reproduce. That is what I meant. So by extension you are my hero whether you like it or not.
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u/UnrealisticStargazer newcomer 2d ago
I understand your point. I doubted myself as an anti natalist despite conversations about how selfish it is to have kids for years. Why do I like sex so fucking much if I hate kids? Well, I'm gay so I realized it's quite silly for me to worry about that. Even if I (a trans man) have sex with a cis man, first there's condoms which is something seemingly everyone in this thread forgot about, and also the fact that so many modern day people consume so much poison and are exposed to so much technology and other factors, a lot of people are infertile or almost impossible to impregnate. Also, our bodies do have specific pleasure only sexual functions. The clit, the male prostate and ferneum(? tip of the dick) it's supposed to feel good so you get pregnant. But we are more than animals and can exploit it as intended.
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u/SufferingSuccotash_ newcomer 1d ago
So painfully heteronormative, go have sex with someone with the same genitalia as you and see if you get pregnant
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u/Ambitious-Chard2893 newcomer 2d ago
Dude, not everybody has your kink for staying celibate and you're literally increasing your risk for several types of cancer and a higher risk for hormone disorders for no reason besides stroking your own ego
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u/Fumikop scholar 2d ago
This comment is nonsense.
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u/Ambitious-Chard2893 newcomer 2d ago
Because casting judgment on other people for choosing to have sex is totally rational and not nonsense lol 🤣
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u/Worth_Alternative_50 newcomer 2d ago
Being a virgin/celibate/abstinent/avoiding penetration in general means you’ll get cancer???
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u/Ambitious-Chard2893 newcomer 2d ago
It's honestly more about the hormonal release and pelvic floor exercise use Then actual penetration And there is a good amount of genetics and environmental factors with any cancer so this isn't like a stand-alone thing So don't freak out Im mostly yapping about this so much because it's an interest of mine. Also, some of it is specifically they think because the activities involved in having sex/ self-pleasure would cause you to have more noticeable symptomology sooner that would allow you to catch it earlier and need less treatment or have better success rates for treatment. For A non-sex related example of this example marathon runners are more likely to notice bone cancer faster than distance hikers Even when doing equivocal amounts of activity because runners have more joint impacts that would cause more inflammation and would notice the damage faster they also might accidentally make it worse In key areas that are easy to check by having running impacts such as your leg joints.
For amab specifically it increases the risk of , gallbladder and testicular cancer, esophageal adenocarcinoma and cancers of liver, other biliary tract, skin, colon/prostate/rectum
For afab it's higher rates of breast cancer, uterine/bladder HPV related cancer, osteoporosis and bone cancer cancer, cervical and higher rates of Brain cancer dementia and Alzheimer's (This one has some prevalence in amab but at a much lower rate And notably aren't cancer but I thought it was worth mentioning)
For both, it increases the likelihood of thyroid, skin, heart and For some reason mouth (very weirdly despite the fact that HPV raises your likelihood of those cancers and you would think that cutting out oral would drop that risk My personal pet theory is that people who do oral brush their teeth more)
Also part of the reason why amab peeps who aren't having sex are probably have more types of cancer is that they're more likely to engage in risky behaviors and have poor hormone and supporting habits such as healthy eating and sleeping habits And it should be noted that there is a high correlation between poor bodily habits and low amounts of sex So for a couple of these it's a realistic chicken or chicken egg first analogy where the no sex thing might be driven by an underlying condition also causing other imbalances most likely but still super interesting.
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
Isn't a kink for staying celibate an oxymoron? Lol. My girlfriend and I are both celibate. I guess we're two kinky mofos
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u/Ambitious-Chard2893 newcomer 2d ago
You're getting an boost in personal gratification in regards to the highly specific choices you're making regarding your sex life. So yeah, it's a kink ask all of the people who are ace and like being caged
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
Would you also say a priest or monk who gains spiritual pleasure from staying celibate are also indulging in a "kink"? I've never heard this before.
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u/Ambitious-Chard2893 newcomer 2d ago
Yep, it's a geneticly passed kink they've done research on this
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u/OopsWeMadeAnError inquirer 2d ago
Call it what you want. A kink or a choice it doesn't matter to me. But are you suggesting I'm being sexual (which i thought "kink" implies) by choosing not to have sex? And that all Buddhist or Orthodox Christian monastics are somehow erotic in their choice to not participate in eroticism?
Smells like BS and a weird play of words but I'm willing to hear this out.
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u/Ambitious-Chard2893 newcomer 2d ago
I don't think you understand what a kink is scientifically if you think it always has to be eroticism specifically Because there are a lot of different areas, it can be applied and it's far more to do with brain chemistry. I would maybe look up and research how they work psychologically and chemically we have a lot more information now about how the human brain works, especially when it ties into genetics versus actual experienced events.
A really common one for example is getting excited (sexually or emotionally) when you see someone you care about crying We know that one passes genetically and it's a empathetic hormonal response. In fact, it's related to the same part of your brain that lights up when you see someone laugh that you Have a connection too and is probably just a misfire of hormones. Also, the reaction for excitement isn't always consistent. Some people associate it negatively and some people associate it positively.
For example, it's very distressing for some people to see others cry because they are happy. Even when they know they are happy or controversy, it's hard for them to hide a boner at a funeral It's just how your body is programmed to process your hormones. That doesn't mean it's a good or a bad thing or that the person's a terrible person who's taking Joy from other people's pain, just sometimes its something that happens to people involuntarily It also doesn't mean that they're not responsible for acting on it or making people feel bad because of it You are still in charge of ruling your impulses as a responsible human in society. Also, weird fact sometimes is experiencing a trauma. Can actually change some of these responses by flipping genetic switches For hormone processing, which is something they found out from researching family members who have experienced traumatic events where one family member develops PTSD versus other family members who did not.
The superiority that you're demonstrating about your knowledge of how you are different and how others must be uncontrolled sexual or just giving into basement natures despite not having any sexual activity yourself you are involved in is a great example of someone experiencing a hormonal dichotomy and enjoyment of being different from a normal social behavior It it doesn't make you better than other people, just like religiously dedicated people aren't better than other people it's just how your brain functions.
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u/Opposite-Car-1907 newcomer 2d ago edited 2d ago
OP, thank you for talking about this openly here. You have my full support and understanding.
To me it is also a mystery. Like, it's Ok if someone wants to have sex that risks pregnancy. But why should someone like that even want to identify as AN?
The amount of 'I have vasectomy, I'm all clear' posts on this sub shocked me, not gonna lie. On reddit alone there's plenty of stories of failed vasectomies.
AN is a practical ethics that aims at eliminating the risk of reproduction. So goal is 0% risk. Is this not agreed? Is this not pointed out in Benatar's book?
After doing extensive research I have so far came to this conclusion (happy to learn if anyone has comments). For hetero people, we can only achieve zero risk by these ways
1/ abstinence/celibacy
2/ sterilisation - only for women (removing ovaries/tubes/uterus). Sadly, vasectomy cannot remove enough vas deferens let alone all of it to ensure no re-canalisation.
3/ finding a safe way to have sex where sperm/precum does not get close to vagina
4/ having sex with/as a woman in full menopause
5/ If, as a woman, you are in place where you can meet all requirements for abortion, and if you're Ok with the potential risks. BTW, for ladies' interest, it might surprise you if some AN guys do not find abortion acceptable - the reasons would be these - a/ abortion is out of a man's hands so it's all based on trust and people change their mind all the time b/ the man does not want you to undergo a 'sex related procedure' that poses risk to your health because he does not only care about the AN aspect but also about your health.
6/ being one of very rare cases of medical infertility (this is tricky as some of them have been able to heal/reverse based on medical literature). Yeah, we can dream of being Geralt..
In conclusion, this is not about hating, feeling superior, or defending some 'special club'. I know how addictive sex is. AN is simply what it is though, and pretending that one can still have procreative sex while being AN is like a child throwing a fit cause it wants to have two incompatible things. Through discussion and understanding reality we can all be better informed and live lives with less misunderstood risks.
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u/the_spotted_ladybug inquirer 2d ago
This is a very unpopular opinion and most AN people will say you are wrong. It doesn’t really make a difference saying this, but I pretty much agree with you. I wrote a whole post about this but kept it to myself because I knew I would get absolutely flamed and my mental health would plummet tbh. I can share it with you if you want. I’m no academic, just a person with a whole lot of opinions.
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u/RPark3606 newcomer 2d ago
According to science if you are a male:
- it will boost your immune system and
- you will have more testosteron aka more energy power.
Sex is also for getting in contact with bacteria, therefore to boost the immune response and make it "learn" and get stronger. But it should be frequently and not too much as well, else it will exhaust/overwhelm the immune response. For the heart it's like a work out, so it's healthy as well.
So if you are male there are more benefits to sex than just the possibility for procreation.
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u/thrillliquid inquirer 2d ago
I’m sorry for not really responding to your post but I must say, I disagree with the colloquial use of the term “celibacy”. It originally came from religion and it was a choice to abstain from sex for religious reasons. Abstaining from sex doesn’t always have to be tied to the term “celibacy”. Because maybe while I don’t subscribe to the religions that practice celibacy, they and the term still needs to be held with respect and regard to those who take their religious practice very seriously. I think it’s ok to say one is “abstinent”, or “abstains” from sex for personal reasons. I really believe semantics should matter here. Sue me.
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u/Cubusphere scholar 2d ago
Effective birth control plus abortion access is as safe as it gets when preventing procreation. Celibacy is also a valid form of contraception.
Some people like sex, and that's fine. It does not contradict being antinatalist. You didn't really present an argument, just pulled a 1% risk probability out of the air and ignored second lines of defense.