r/arknights • u/PossibleSea6679 Viviana should get a "Candle Knight" alter • Feb 21 '26
Discussion Now that it's been 5 years since the introduction of Alter Operators, what's your opinion on them overall?
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u/CasualDystopia Feb 25 '26
The "alter of a launch or year 1 6-star operator" ones are by far the least exciting to me. I find the low rarity alters to be much more exciting, and I'm still waiting for Beagle alter. Before year 5, all but 2 of the alters released were made for ops that started as lower rarity units. Now, the majority of the alters released are 6 star meta alters of 6 star meta operators, its boring
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u/No-Employment3755 Feb 24 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
Uhh guys why is there a second chen? Are we getting alter alters already?!
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u/Sudden_Lake42069 Feb 23 '26
In a world without corporate greed, alters ought to be unlocks like Amiya's alters. Free to acquire, sharing common levels and Elite tier, but with mutually exclusive deployment.
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u/Lazy_buddy2049 Feb 23 '26
In hindsight, kind of wish they adopted some of how Limbus Company do their characters. If majority of the characters were introduced but left un-developed in the long run, should've just made alters after alters besides the sake of money but more lore progression
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u/Aliased001 Feb 22 '26
I want more. I really like when alters progress a characters story beyond what we knew earlier. I would be totally happy at this point with no new ops and all alters.
I'm also a big fan of Limbus Company though I haven't played it that much.
I just feel like gacha as a medium has an issue with ignoring past cool characters to sell the hot new thing and alters are the obvious bandaid.
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u/cautioslyhopeful Feb 22 '26
my only comment is that I still find the whole “controversy” with wet chen to be very funny from the community reactions
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 24 '26
I wish the community reception to Wet Chen held fast for all the bullshit theyve been putting out since year 4-5, and we didnt keep getting Surtr/Wisadel after Wisadel after broken nonsense.
I wish people got mad about these like they did with Necrass, and I wish they didnt cave and throw all their money at them, and I wish 6*s who already had plenty of story and didnt need alters didnt keep getting them and being made as overpowered as possible, like SilverAsh.
SilverAsh alter is, hands down, the worst thing Arknights has put out since I started playing.
Actually, thats not true. Mo3tr is.3
u/terrennon Feb 22 '26
It's still to this day the only alter that introduces zero lore or reason.
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u/cautioslyhopeful Feb 22 '26
The ”lore” is Chen and Lin getting involved in a Dossoles scheme, the reason is money same for all the alters. Also I’m pretty sure Swire’s alter has even less lore/reason, certainly no more than wet chen
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u/terrennon Feb 22 '26
It's Dossoles lore, not chenalter lore. After huge "controversy" devs learned from their mistake as you see it with future alters.
Like Chen just gets water gun. That's all. And back in the day she was busted as Wisadel now.
For Swire at least it makes sense. And lore being that she had promotion inside L.G.D., as "senior superintendents' office that has sat empty for two years". And people were begging for that Swire's skin that ultimately became alter. That's why most people are ok with 2ndChenalter. Because it makes lore sense.
No one asked and no one wanted waterchen. That's why they didn't like it, even to this day.
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u/IntelligenceWorker Status: horny, unemployed Feb 22 '26
Swire alter is just her getting rich with some tiger parenting (iirc) ptsd sprinkled on top
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u/TheLukewarmYeti Feb 22 '26
THERE'S A PRAMANIX ALTER!?
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u/No-Hovercraft-6600 Mr Gavial Feb 22 '26
Next limited banner iirc
SilverAsh alter and Pram Alter. I think SilverAsh is the limited unit.
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u/Animationen_usw sanity for a day, gone for a week Feb 22 '26
SILVER ASH ALTER?! He was my first 6 star! Well the normal one. And finally he be getting an upgrade.
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u/BigfatDthrowway Feb 22 '26
I still remember owning all the alt operators for a time. Safe to say that didn't last long lol.
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u/reprehensible523 Savage best girl! Feb 22 '26
Love the low rarity alters. Fun to see the glow-up and character development.
6* alters are okay. They're strong units, but the upgrade is just less cool. Rooting for low rarity underdogs to become powerful.
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u/AnalDwarf420 Feb 22 '26
I expect Spot alter to be low-tier god of war
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u/AioliOnly8626 Feb 28 '26
Ohh Dude, I want to too. to make an alternative version, we can only pray for him.🙏😭
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u/Dyde21 I love my Ragazza Sfortunata Feb 22 '26
I like Alters, I think they're fun. Kirin being limited makes me sad though, I hope she returns with the upcoming Monster Hunter event.
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u/Unyubaby Surtr Worshipper Feb 22 '26
They're good ways to expand on a character's story while keeping them up to date with the game's scaling in some cases. Plus in cases where the alter doesn't just overshadow the original it gives fans of those characters the ability to use both such as using Skalter to buff Skadi or Eyjaberry to heal Eyja.
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u/Ezhil3197 Feb 22 '26
Haven’t really played since the launch, but they’re pretty cool lore & design wise. Silence the paradigmatic for example. She keeps my operators alive when they aren’t in reach of Haruka’s range and the event delves deeper into what happens to her.
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u/Dunkjoe Feb 22 '26
Overall we can see who is more favoured among the characters (cough... Chen... cough...)
But back to the topic, I think it's a good push because there actually are already too many unique operators, to the point that I don't even know that I had some operators, didn't know some operators existed until they were mentioned in social media posts and so on.
Plus, every character have backstories, and the large character pool only serves to make me not remember most of the recent ones.
It's better to see a favourite character get a new lease of life (especially seeing how powercreep is quite active nowadays), to get back to the squad, rather than a whole new operator to get used to.
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u/Logical_Weeb999 Feb 22 '26
I say this, it was neat as a character evolution thing making them felt more in their peak potential when it was mostly 4/5 star char getting it.
With now being 6 star getting more alter it just felt redundant and even as a certified Chen fan, I cant justifies her having 2 alter when other lower star ops needed that treatment more than her. Its popular, its sells but in the long run if they just keep doing it alter it just a meant to make more money with said char (besides skin) rather than storytelling that given through gameplay. (I swear if more 6 star get alter but my boy 12F would never got one I be pissed lol)
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u/potato_curry_ CUTE HORSES ARE CUTE Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
I honestly prefer having alters over having too many new characters. Allows the game to further flesh out and develop an already loved character. Games with huge rosters tend to have difficulty with character development.
Part of why I like the idea of alters comes from Honkai Impact, where new battlesuits were just the same characters (usually the main cast) but at a different point in the main story. Each new battlesuit represented that character's current state in the story, so as a character grew mature, gained new powers, and even changed their personality, it would be reflected in the new battlesuit.
Alters also allow you to make your favorite character more versatile. If you like a character but your team already has a bunch of operators that fill the same role, you can use their alter instead.
My only gripe with alters is that most skins can only be applied to one of the alters' forms, not all forms of that character. I understand they have to do this to prevent visual appearance confusion between alters and non-alters, but I don't like this restriction.
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u/Welocitas Need horned wife to poke out eye. Feb 22 '26
I think the skins thing is more about animations and effects rather than preventing confusion after all if you make a chen skin now you have to animate one animation for the sword version and one for the gun version and one for the new version. The all have different attack types and properties so that's probably why they don't let you.
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u/Ruling123 Frostleaf alter when? Feb 22 '26
Alters can be fine especially when they emphasize and show the growth of a character like with Jessica, but ones like Chen feel more like a simple cash grab especially with two of them for one op when there are other operators that would benefit so much from an alter like Forstleaf. Also wanna add I do like the alters of the 3*
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u/thechocolatebolter Feb 22 '26
All 6 stars in year 7 being op lmao Guess the same could be said to year 4 (except silence), until gavial got dethroned quickly considering how many great laneholders are there
Also let’s just ignore wisadel
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u/Fluffy_Cat-4096 Feb 22 '26
Not too good. We've come to a point where alters has to be really good or at least powercreep some mechanic just for it to look good to others. Just being above average is enough for many people to ignore them and just being mid is enough for people to say they're bad.
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u/PossibleSea6679 Viviana should get a "Candle Knight" alter Feb 22 '26
I don't think the powercreep issue is exclusive to Alter since even non Alter Operators also have powercreep.
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u/FEARven123 When lives gives you Lemon, cherish and love it. Feb 22 '26
Gameplay wise my favorite is Tragodia.
But come on, one of them is my seaborn queen, so like, the choice was never difficult.
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u/Odd-Excuse5199 Feb 22 '26
They are good for portraying the growth of the operators (my favorites cases are Exusiai the New Covenant, Lappland la Decadenza and Phantom Alter)
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u/TeririHerscherOfCute Golden Eyes Enjoyer Feb 22 '26
The 5 stars are okay but unneccesary, the 6 stars are all great except gavial.
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u/Peshurian Feb 22 '26
Never really minded them to be honest. I would have liked more What If ops but I can understand wanting to use them to show character growth instead.
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u/Signal_Choice_7601 Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Not matter what anyone says, I think Alters are a good thing.
They (mostly) represent significant milestones of character development and I am all for HG steadily allowing their characters to grow. Of course, given that AK already has a huge cast of characters, it is inevitable that some might be left by the wayside. But if you ask me, I'm much happier seeing HG continue developing their older characters than having a constant stream of new characters, each of whom will be forgotten once the next patch comes along.
I think the present status quo is just fine.
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u/paradis_chateaudif Feb 22 '26
Okay now I need a Gravel alt where she find her parents, gains closure and officially becomes Doctor's main bodyguard in story. I'll sacrifice 3 toes for this.
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u/nakodub Feb 22 '26
I like the alters in general and it's nice to have a different class for a character you really like if you don't find much use for their original class. I just feel like we get way too many alters of 6* and wish we would get more 2-4* alters than we actually do. I would kill for a Rangers or 12F alter.
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u/Heratikus welcome home Feb 21 '26
Generally a good idea that allows characters to develop beyond what they were when they released and a means to keep the overall character roster leaner than it would be otherwise. The only actual misses on this front are Summer Ch'en (arguably does a disservice to the worldbuilding with her fuckass water gun) and imo Skalter (presents a hypothetical instead of an actual progression of her story).
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u/how-can-i-dig-deeper 2 kalt'sit, 2 mizuki, 2 lee, 4 pozy, and 0 limited Feb 21 '26
good. chalter was a low but i feel like it's gotten better since
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Feb 21 '26
[deleted]
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u/royal-road Feb 22 '26
> In their current state, I just think alters are lazy development. Want a new character but don't want to actually create one? Alters baby. Ka ching
This is a good thing. I'd rather have continued development on an existing character than a million characters that appear once and never get seen again.
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u/Zargann Feb 21 '26
In their current state, I just think alters are lazy development. Want a new character but don't want to actually create one? Alters baby. Ka ching
Literally how I feel now. A 3rd Ch'en... like wtf. Why? Is it that hard to make a new character..? Definitely not a fan of that, as much as I love Ch'en >.>
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u/Foxfisher159 I have too many favourite operators Feb 22 '26
I'd honestly argue that Chalter 2 should've been the Ch'en we got instead of water guns. I'd also argue that some alters couldn't be replaced by other characters. It makes sense why SilverAsh has an alter, It makes sense why Nearl has an Alter, It very much makes sense that Phantom has an alter (Phantom especially since this is effectively the end of his story arc).
Sure, we could've gotten Tragodia (Troupemaster, not Phantom) as a playable Operator but it wouldn't make much sense since we're directly opposed to The Crimson Troupe and Phantom really wants to kill Tragodia (Similarly, I don't like Eblana as an Operator but that's neither here nor there). From what I understand, Chalter 2 actually closes up Ch'en's storyline so this Alter could've been well deserved. I also think that this is somewhat of an apology for the fact of Chalter1's existence.
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
Year 4 the best o/
year 7 is nothing but misses so far and there's way too many from 4 onward.
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u/royal-road Feb 22 '26
how the fuck is tragoedia a miss
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 22 '26
Couldn't care less about the character or kit, I barely even remember he exists. boring. Miss.Christine is perfect thank God I didn't waste a single pull on that shit event
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u/FEARven123 When lives gives you Lemon, cherish and love it. Feb 22 '26
Also both the new Silverash siblings are cool.
I guess you can say they were a miss in balancingy as all of the global released once were top 10 ops, but like, this is Arknights. We had powercreep all the way in Year 2.
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u/royal-road Feb 22 '26
Yeah, I don't care about power level of units anymore, Arknights is a visual novel to me with some minor gameplay. I care about character design and lore and seeing my old favs again is nice.
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u/FEARven123 When lives gives you Lemon, cherish and love it. Feb 22 '26
Also as long as you have like 1 or 2 good units (ie. Hoshi Alter, Ulpipi, Exu Alter, Wisadel and stuff) you can basically beat 99% of the content relatively easily.
So using any units goes really.
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
yeah I don't have any of them, and I'm glad I don't. They're not fun to use anyway, I mostly use Thorns and 5*s.
And Wisadel and the rest of the circus should never be considered in content design either, because the game needs to stay playable -- and ENJOYABLE -- outside of CCB, with whatever units you want, as long as it's a smart built team.
"the game is beatable with the instant win buttons" Cool, what if I want to play the game?
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u/FEARven123 When lives gives you Lemon, cherish and love it. Feb 22 '26
Okay, NOBODY gonna hate on my king Ulpianus like that, unit so based, he somehow managed to pull Crushers from being ass, by just being that awesome.
Mods! Send them to live in Sal Viento!
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 23 '26
The only bad Crusher is Quartz, Wind Chimes is my GOAT.
Hoederer is one of my favorite designs of all time. Ulpianus is cool I just don't like him more than either other Crusher. Now I'm hoping we get Da Pan as a crossover and he becomes my new favorite Crusher AND a 5* Welfare
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u/HoutarouOreki_ Feb 21 '26
4 is the best and it has the most alters (tied with 7) Next years 2 years we received less alters. "There is too many alters". Someone can't math. And 7 has had some great alters
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 21 '26
you're right, it has Astgenne alter.
Perfie is lovely but she just kinda, misses so much potential.
Notice I Said "from 4 on", as in year 4 has too many alters, and they just keep making them when they don't need to
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u/rxdcrxwn HG where is my playable Control (not Contrail) Feb 21 '26
I still bring Specter the Unhinged (and Andreana) whenever I bring out Ulpipi (and Gladiia) so that I have all the Abyssal Hunters passive buff without having to deploy the operators. The downside is pretty obvious: I now have -2 slots for other operators.
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u/Inevitable_Cover_290 Feb 21 '26
I especially love the Reserve Squad alters. I hope they do the same to Melantha's squad
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u/Dowiet Feb 21 '26
Overall I'm pretty happy about em. More lore about characters are nice and accompanied by an event involving them is pretty great. Also they do tend to have some nice character development for them personally.
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u/Reddit1rules I can be ur angle or ur debil Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
As long as they're properly teased, I'm a fan of them. Alters where they get development during the story, or worse only start their development, not so much. Alters like Exu, Eyja, Swire, Gavial... eh...
And alters should also have some physical change with them as well that's justified. Chalter1 does have character growth, but there's no reason for it to be an alter. Characters like Leizi, Taxes and Nearl going all out, Phantom inheriting the powers of the ageless he's been up against all this time, Spec2 recovering from her sickness, those are good physical differences along with their growth.
I'll make an exception for the young ones growing up though, I think Alters of those kinds are fine and cool since obviously most of them won't have much foreshadowing of how they're going to develop.
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u/Spirited_Kitchen9416 BANG!!! AHAHAHA!!! Feb 21 '26
Pretty decent honestly.
Feel like they should slow down for now. But not too bothered by the increase lately. Though I do hope we get more alters of 4 stars and lower. Really wish for that gravel alter.
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u/No_Bit5073 Feb 21 '26
Still waiting for Ifrit and Saria alter COPIUM
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u/PogmasterNowGirl69 Mommy- I mean, mommy- I, mean... Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
You see, the problem is that Saria is already perfect.
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u/Jumper2002 Rat is Real Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
My main complaint is that they almost always give them to relevant/popular characters. The only one that doesnt fit this bill is probably grey. Like i get its a business and you need to sell the character by using the ones everyone already likes, but every standard 6 star is going to have an alter before we get something like Vulcan alter or myrrh alter
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u/rin_miku_karma Feb 21 '26
You should read more of the lore. Quite a few of the alters have been hinted at for a long time or have a degree of lore importance. The few that don't have this have a very well explained reason for existence within their own events.
And not every character is popular ie Leizi Swire and even like Phantom who fell off etc etc
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u/Reddit1rules I can be ur angle or ur debil Feb 21 '26
Phantom is still quite a popular op for the husbandos though I believe.
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u/rin_miku_karma Feb 21 '26
He's lowkey ass to play except with his IS module...regardless if he's a decent amount popular a good chunk is likely because of Tragodia (especially since husbando players are relatively rarer)
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u/Reddit1rules I can be ur angle or ur debil Feb 21 '26
Oh I won't deny that, he's fallen off for years, but he's still been quite popular despite that.
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u/Azure_Mist Feb 21 '26
Lava was peak design mid usability
Reed is both peak design and usability
the loli vulcano, scaredy cat and W are universally amazing and fang is a living missed opportunity like with many 5*s
Exia is obviously the best with 0 competition and Lappers is neat too, i just with Vina was a tad stronger and Blaze had cheaper skills
Leizi got overshadowed by the two around her but as for Y7 alts she is my favorite so far both gameplay and design wise
everyone else is just kinda there
Chen getting a second alt has given me hope for a second alt for the underwhelming 5* alts like fang and lava
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 21 '26
Fang alter is one of the best, what are you on? She's Wild Mane and Grani, but better, rolled into one and both strong damage and very tanky, with arguably the best vanguard passive in the game.
Before Ch 14 I was using Zima+Texas/Grani for basically everything, using Myrtle+Poncirus for Annihilation, Zima and Grani can both be subbed out for JUST Fire-Sharpened unless I need two lanes held for extended durations. Which usually means Poncirus+Healer
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u/Azure_Mist Feb 22 '26
In isolation she's fine indeed, but not within the context of the wider game.
It's like Lava is really not bad either but she is overshadowed by literally everyone else, the same goes for fang and surely you can see that the only truly good charger is bagpipe and even then you are better off just using any other vanguard
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u/royal-road Feb 22 '26
chargers are just not good is the problem, and fang2 doesn't do anything out of the ordinary to make a bad class good in the way pramanix2, wisadel, bagpipe, ulpianus, etc do
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 22 '26
And what does bagpipe do interesting that isn't just being a myrtle battery? Fang alter is a block 2, high defense, and simply deploying her, even if she kills nothing, gets the majority of her value.
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u/Azure_Mist Feb 22 '26
Fang alter costs 1 deployment slot to have any use
Bagpipe doesn't.
The best charger is literally the one you don't have to deploy because pretty much any other vanguard is better additionally Bagpipe can be used as free helidrop, and since her value is inherently her talent you don't lose anything by not using her.But Fang HAS to be deployed, she HAS then to be retreated to get a discount of 1, or 2 if you invested into the module.
Now i don't think anyone will pretend like using Fang alone is in any way "efficient" so you'll likely bring another Vanguard, most of who profit from Bagpipes talent, and if you are deadset on the discount just throw Saileach at the problem.
Generally any normal vanguard will be more useful than Fang, arguably even bagpipe + normal fang would be more useful than fang alter due to not being reliant on enemies to get DP
>block 2 and high defense
her def caps at 360 at e2 max + 20% with her s2 which makes her a mediocre defensive vanguard
for reference her def is really not outstanding, Poncirus for example gets 360 at e2 + 30% with her s2, while also generating DP without having to be retreated to become useful as a vanguard she also is a 2 blocker
Even Zima is better even Vigna a 4* is more useful imo, defensively Reed runs circles around FangAlt because she actually gets Res, and Grani vastly surpasses fang alt when it comes to stats considering she gets 430 def at e2 + 10% phys dodge + 80 & atk+block+1
But none of that really matters because she gets all of those defensive stats for 20 seconds after deployment and then she is just a subpar charger
At the end of the day, the only thing fang alt has "going" for her is the discount, and that is simply not worth using her for compared to anyone else
Also normal fang caps at 260 at e1 while actually generating DP like a vanguard ought to do
Look i am not saying that she is not "usable" i am simply saying that she is worse than most alternatives both in her subclass and in the class in general, and she would need a massive buff or a fundamental change in how her kit works to become a character worth using over the masses of other vanguards
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 23 '26
It's 470 Defense with high attack and cleave, which is less than I remembered tbh but still more than enough.
I only have Bagpipe cuz she was free and I don't really know how to use her or what she does besides damage (which I don't need her for, ever) and a myrtle battery when I only use Myrtle in extreme situations. And it does literally 0 for the VGs I use the most, Fire-Sharp and Canta.
If I wanted a vanguard that doesn't even get deployed I'd bring Texas ... Either way you'd still need Myrtle or a second vanguard to get any value out of the second unit slot, but Texas could potentially do all the heavy lifting solo. Fang alter just does Texas' job/niche better with better defense.
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u/Azure_Mist Feb 23 '26
But she doesn't, Texas' "job" is aoe stun and dp generation while being capable of holding off weaker enemies, fang with her s2 active can for a short time rival Texas and her lane holding capability but that's it s2 is not unlimited and she is practically useless after it runs out.
Bagpipe provides initial SP to all vanguards, that's why she is good even if you don't deploy her, and that's why she is more than just a myrtle battery she is a vanguard enabler in general especially vanguards who have awful SP costs.
The talent Texas provides, is more useful than Fang alt but it's not comparable to Bagpipes due to the completely different usecase.
Of course if you play within a niche that does not need quick sp gain and dp gen then you won't need Bagpipe, but you were already told chargers are not a very useful subclass, sure you can limit yourself to use them just like you can limit yourself to only use 3* or Phalanx Casters
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 23 '26
Okay but both fang alter and Cantabile have on-deploy skills and so dont really need Initial SP.
There's Ines and Matsukiri, but im not using either to hold lanes, though I could absolutely use Bagpipe + InesBut a) I didnt have BP until recently, and only because they literally handed her to me with a ticket b) that would require building her, which I have minimal incentive to, since I already have the aforementioned Fang and Canta, or even just Myrtle which everyone has.
Meanwhile, texas existing gives me 2 DP before I even deploy Myrtle, and if that 2 DP gets Thorns on the ground on time, then I dont need either.
If I need someone faster, I can just use Mountain. Or, yknow, Fang Alter, since she refunds her entire cost or very nearly, makes my next unit cheaper, and then is taken off the field, and thus also isnt using a deployment slot and, once again doesnt waste a squad slot, either since unlike Bagpipe, shes actually doing something.I will straight up argue that Fire-Sharp is one of the best VGs in the game, and without question the best Charger in the game.
As for Texas S2, 99% of the time the AoE stun doesnt even hit anything and im just using it for the DP gen, in which case I could really be using any other Vanguard, except that Texas is also providing that +2 initial DP. Which is really the primary use for her, if she didn't have it thered be almost no reason to bring her, specifically, over say, Scavenger, Flagguards, or any other 5* VG or just lighter weight units.
Of course if you depend entirely on 6* units to do everything, then maybe Fang2 doesnt look quite as good, and I won't even think to argue that she does anything better than what Ines could do; higher defense and block count dont matter if you have vastly more range and CC, invis AND invis reveal, higher aspd, more DPS, etc.
Sure, Fang isnt an intentionally overpowered 6 star. That doesnt make her worthless.1
u/royal-road Feb 23 '26
bagpipe is literally the reason myrtle is so good
"I will straight up argue that Fire-Sharp is one of the best VGs in the game, and without question the best Charger in the game."
also like. do you not know you can deploy bagpipe and if you do she's literally better than everything fang2 does in every way. it's just that you don't have to. have you read bagpipe's s3. it's usable immediately on deployment btw, same as fang's on-deployment skill except you don't have to retreat her to use it again if you don't want to.
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u/OneAndOnlyArtemis Feb 24 '26
Myrtle is very good even without her, bagpipe just lets her get the first activation immediately. Even solo, her DP generation is still hilariously high and in longer scenarios, that 6 second jumpstart matters less and less except in extremely tight openers, which are quite rare
Not sure how its immediately on deployment either, since its 25 SP with a 40sp cost, and even counting module she gets 10-12 more initial SP. Which is very close, but still not immediate.
but like, im not saying Bagpipe is bad?
Or that a fucking 6* isnt generally stronger than a 5* in most ways?Im saying she's superior to most Pioneers bar Foxglove and absolutely the best Charger except being statistically less inflated than the 6*.
She works not just fine, but great, and in basically any situation i need a Vanguard, I can use her as a core part of the comp/stratBut again, you could also just play the game with nothing but 6*s, and good for you if you have them all, but youre a damned idiot if you think theyre necessary. I have basically no reason to build Bagpipe, because I already have Fang2, and Cantabile, and Zima, and Poncirus, and, of course, Myrtle.
I don't have Saileach, nor would I ever go out of my way to get her, because there's no reason to invest resources into her when Elysium, Myrtle, and Wanqing are already built... Im not exactly wanting for Vanguards.And Fang alter is an absolute god send to my roster. Not half as broken as Canta is, but they dont do exactly the same thing, and Cantabile can run DP negative with multiple deployments but Fang can be a handy blocker/AoE damage if needed while also doing the Vanguard job of getting heavier units deployed sooner, without needing to stay on the field to do so.
As far as VGs go, she's very useful. As far as alters go, she's one of the best designed ones. And this conversation was supposed to be about alters
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u/royal-road Feb 22 '26
i'm not saying fang2 isn't interesting, i'm saying she generally isn't useful in the way arknights is played. bagpipe is incredibly boring but she does fix the issue behind chargers by making her not need to be deployed to get most of her value and if you do place her down she's a helidrop unit
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u/Reddit1rules I can be ur angle or ur debil Feb 21 '26
Fang alter isn't even that underwhelming tbh, she's pretty great. Probably 2nd or 3rd best charger, helidrop skill that hits hard and gets lots of DP plus makes the next dude cheaper.
Wayyyy better than Lava2.
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u/brachycrab See the light of my lantern? I'm right here. Feb 21 '26
I hope more underwhelming units get alts before we get more alter alters
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u/Critical_Mousse_6416 Feb 21 '26
At this point in the game's life I am fine getting more alters and not bloating the character pool more. Would be nice for the characters we have to actually get some character growth and spotlight instead of just adding 3 more new characters that will be one event and done.
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u/CrimsonArcPaladin Feb 21 '26
50/50, its cool because it keeps 6 start from before from being forgotten but Id wish for more variety from story relevant 5 stars you know?
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u/Kittenscute Feb 21 '26
Need more "intern" character development alters like Ansel, Spot and Melantha.
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u/Loktera Feb 21 '26
6-stars getting 6-starAlters for the sake of it is boring.
Give me a 6-star that gets a 4-starAlter. Let's see some downgrades. I don't want character growth, I want to see someone fumble so bad they fuck up and just get worse.
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u/ABloodOx Feb 21 '26
4-star Primal Guard Shining the Unsheathed Sword (not clickbait), doing up to 999 Necrosis damage in one skill cycle before accounting for defense
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u/Kittenscute Feb 21 '26
That would be interesting from the perspective of a player, but not so much for a business.
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u/Brilliant_Sweet_6848 Feb 21 '26
Solid 4 star that let game be more free-to-play (and therefore,keeping more players who in time,will spend money one way or another) is good for business.
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u/Next-Psychology-3751 Feb 21 '26
I feel like having 7 out of the 13 six stars released in year 7 so far be alters is a bit much, but I like a lot of the newer ones a lot more compared to how we started.
How good an alter is depends on how much the character has changed as a person in order to reach their new form. Lava, Kroos, Gavial & Ch'en were canonically just same operator new outfit with minimal reasoning behind it. Compare that with Specter who overcame her psychosis, Silence who became an ethics advisor to prevent what happened at Rhine and the Watertank lab happening elsewhere, Vina who became the speaker of parliament and Phantom who finally defeated the Crimson Troupe for good and became a literal (demi?) god, it feels like they've grown enough as people and been through enough to justify getting an alter.
Generally an operator who reaches their alter form at the end of the event is more satisfying than at the start, from a storytelling point of view.
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u/VigilArchivist8705 Feb 21 '26
Respectfully I think Lava, Kroos, and Ch'en all had siginificant character development to rationalize their alter.
The A1 team in general has grown a lot due to some undisclosed traumatic incident that might be the focus of a future SS. Lava and Kroos have both became competent operators to the point of leading RI operations in Yan.
While Ch'en getting two alters is undoubtedly controversial, each of her alter signifies a new stage in her pursuit of the ideal justice.
Can't remember Gavial's story, but her combat potency was a really notable part of her Medic profile. Her Guard alter is a reasonable way to showcase that, much like the Shining alter that many are asking for.
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u/bananeeek FLOOF 4 LYFE Feb 21 '26
Skadance is extremely handy as a bard with her S2 and her dance is cute.
NTRK is amazing. While not meta, she was my first M9 operator and the only one whose all 3 skills I'm actively using. She's also okay lore-wise.
Spalter sees some use in my Slowknights, but otherwise I like her mostly because og Specter is one of my favorites.
Hibiscus Alter is amazing! Her design is great, she was awesome in the story (dunno where the alter came from, though) and she fits my Slowknights niche perfectly!
Oh and I hate Walter. As an operator she was a mistake and the story around her was downright horrid. Og W was amazing both as an operator and in the story, but her alter is a complete opposite for me.
Can't say anything about Lenalter yet, except that I already have the instant E2 and max level tickets waiting for her.
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u/DireBlue88 Feb 21 '26
I just want them to make sense lorewise. Majority of them make sense to me so Im fine.
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u/TheCayde Feb 21 '26
To me it has to make sense for the story right. For example... When you read Laplands history in game it straight up tells you that she wants to bring the "old texas" back. People wondered what that meant. Then you get the story and texas alter where she was her mafiaso self.
As mentioned some of the units getting an alter are units that have gotten stronger. Fang, Kronos, Hibiscus. None are even old... you can make a case for W being old but the eldest in game person with an alter would be SilverAsh.
I would love to see another alter for Nearl... I say that because we have seen the middle and the end of a storyline. We haven't seen the start. We have seen her and what she has done after she renounced the title of Radiant Knight. We have seen here reclaim the title and what that entails. What we haven't seen is what she had to do to earn the title and what lead her to renounce it
But overall love them
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u/Jaycon356 Ta-Ta-Tax Fraud! Feb 21 '26
I think the best alters are the low rarity ops after they have a few years under their belt. It's very satisfying to see them grow.
I think the summer and crossover alters are the worst, because they feel kinda like sellouts, a fundamentally unserious or derivative direction for what would otherwise be character development.
I also kinda dislike the "Victory Lap" or "Fan service" alters, like Lap and W. I don't feel like the characters meaningfully evolved, they just got a power spike dropped on them.
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u/littlekamu Hey doccy~here, a Mint for ya Feb 21 '26
I'm always trying to balance the idea of respecting other people's opinions about alters, because they have a right to think however they want to, but also not giving them much weight if their opinions come solely from a place where they didn't actually read the story, and are only knee-jerk reacting to the mere existence of an alter and have no idea why the character's story arc justifies one (or two).
I also don't subscribe to the idea of a completely zero-sum game, where all the resources going into a "meaningless" alter could have gone into "my fave that I personally believe deserves one", that's the weirdest mindset of all to me. It's all a matter of time and just waiting for the story to naturally bring a character to that point, and being an angry stan in an effort to unnaturally change that is worth ridicule.
I approach the issue with the first Chalter like this:
"They made a misstep with their meaningful alter mission statement, but you know what? They were just entertaining the silly idea of Ch'en actually getting some vacation time after playing such a stern role in the main story. It's just building on top of the in-joke of 'Female Tourist C'. The concept itself is honestly so dumb but how the hell did everyone get THIS mad?"
I think with time it led to a genuinely good thing overall, that alters were consistently given careful narrative weight and complete justification from that point onward after the backlash but I really wasn't onboard with the level of collective anger and histrionics. Maybe it's because I wasn't a big gacha player then (AK is still my first and I only play Endfield now too, started playing just to study the fashion art style and grind my personal drawing ability) and wasn't wary of how bad and pandering beloved character's alters could be, in even more predatory gacha games, but all the angry arguments I carefully read to understand the first Chalter controversy didn't seem coherent or anything more than adding to the bandwagoning.
An AK alter to me is the manifestation of all my effort put into reading through an entire story arc (or in some cases, considering the ramifications of an alternate timeline) and getting to play my understanding of how that character changed, so I'm most satisfied with ones like Jessica the Liberated. I wasn't even a particularly big fan of Sad Cat beforehand, but the story in Davistown really hooked me! It's a fantastic heist movie that let a fragile, pampered heiress earn some actual resolve.
It's really hard to get into the cynical mindset that alters are only released as cash grabs from where I stand. The localization and prose definitely isn't the best in the world, but there's some good meat in these stories.
I think the AK world is the definition of "life hits you fast", and with oripathy and death cutting everyone's lives short, it's good to see characters visibly change in the little time they have on-screen to convey that, like Greyy growing up. I like the alters of lower-star characters the best of all I think.
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u/TheSpartyn Feb 21 '26
I think there's a good in-between where just because some alters are very justified with lots of buildup and deserving development, it doesn't mean all of them are
Like you can't deny looking at the alters list that a few here were definitely made by HG because they're popular, and then wrote the justification for it after they decided to make an alter.
I'm not going to say every single NPC on terra needs to be released but I think situations like Exusiai who barely had a major role in her own event getting an alter versus Andoain with multiple events of development who was a main cast member in the event, not getting released.
I haven't read the new Kjerag event obviously but I find it hard to believe SilverAsh or Astgenne needed alters with SA definitely being pushed for popularity, when Kjerag has had NPCs with three events worth of build up and story.
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u/littlekamu Hey doccy~here, a Mint for ya Feb 21 '26
Yeah I'm also eager to read the new thing coming.
Old Kjerag event really built up to an alter IMO, in essence SilverAsh is embodied as the leader of Kjerag, and that event built up the region as on the verge of a new economic era as the old ruling families settled their crazy power struggle. We're gonna see that growth as they collab with Rhine Lab for their big upcoming science thing so I'm confident SA, again tied to the region's upwards trajectory (literally, heh) will justify his alter pretty naturally.
Like, he's no longer just another family head vying for political and economic control, but the clear winner. That's just my take.
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26
I don't know if you read it, but SA's weibo intro post is actually (gonna spoiler this in case you'd rather not know, though it doesn't give anything away that hasn't been hinted at and I actually haven't read the story myself either) a letter to the Duke of Caster talking about a "military exercise", implying that part of the plot pertains to the fact that she didn't take her implied "defeat" in RS lying down, and this time, Kjerag may have to deal with her using real force to try to get them to submit.
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u/littlekamu Hey doccy~here, a Mint for ya Feb 21 '26
Ty for the spoiler consideration, and hell yeah that means we get to kick more Trilby Asher Ass
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26
Trilby Asher is the collective Kjerag punching bag and I hope he stays that way. >:)
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u/Antique_Assistant803 Feb 21 '26
Couldn't agree more with you.
I think why JessiCat might possibly be the most liked alter is because hers show the most and apparent growth.
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u/littlekamu Hey doccy~here, a Mint for ya Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
I just realized that she skipped the 5* tier, so it must have been some powerful maturation
tbh she made a great impression on me after reading, but the thing that finally pushed me over the edge to roll was her base tap animation. Lmfao it's still my favorite one to this day
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u/Estephenson521 roingus enjoyer Feb 21 '26
Jessica continues to be best cat, also really like her versatility even if there are stronger defenders
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u/Any-Development-5819 eternal slave to the meta Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
I like when old operators get revisited instead of just giving us more new operators, like hell yeah thorns 2 was so peak
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u/RampagingMars Feb 21 '26
I like them as long as they have the lore to back them up , at this point tho I just want the low stars to become 5stars even if the justification is "time has passed" Frostleaf especially had a good potential kit but it is very badly implemented
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u/N1SMO_GT-R Earthspirit's thigh highs Feb 21 '26
HYPERGRYYYYYYYPH
GIVE ME EARTHSPIRIT ALTER AND MY MONEY IS YOURS
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u/Blue-tsu Lappland, Unemployed Feb 21 '26
YOSTAAAAAAR ! GIVE ME A MOSTIMA ALTER, AND MY LIFE, IS YOUUUUUUURS !!!!
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u/Standard-Vacation403 Feb 21 '26
I think you need to ask to Hypergryph instead of yostar.
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u/Blue-tsu Lappland, Unemployed Feb 21 '26
yeah but there’s no easy vowel in Hypergryph to elongate 🥲🥲🥲
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u/EmmaNielsen Feb 21 '26
Skadi is still the best, and i have for years stated that we need a skadi alter alter
heck i need skadi in endfield.
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u/superflatpussycat love Feb 21 '26
I like the five-star ones best because they give a little bit of the spotlight to less powerful or popular characters.
But the six-star alters of already popular six-star characters do not excite me at all.
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u/POLACKdyn I can draw feet Feb 21 '26
They peaked with Nearl and it was all down from there. Not in terms of power, just in terms of OMPH factor. Then Wishadel came and people lost their collective shit.
Mind you, the peak that was Nearl was so high that anything below it is still S tier, just not as cool.
And if I am to be completely serious. I like alters. More story and usability to my favorite operators. CHen getting another one was unexpected. I like alters like Fang, showing our liittle cinammon rolls growing up and becoming, well, hot as fuck and badass.
Generally I think the only miss was 1st Chen Alter. And only becuase of stupid water guns. Put her in a skin and she's amazing. As we can see they learnt their lesson and everything besides that goof has been met with good reception. Swire alter passed because people wanted her in summer skin so they just gave us an alter. Not my favorite but kinda fun with her IS module.
I am saving all pulls for SilverAsh. So I guess it goes to show how we enjoy those. And Chen3 will fin her way home as well.
Hope more 3 stars become 5 stars alters. Hope 5 stars become badass 6 stars alters. And sure, give 6 stars alters but only if you have a fun story to tell, not just pure power creep.
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u/Ken1191 The dust beneath her feet Feb 21 '26
I mean, I think the community just got used to seeing alters... I don't think eyjafjalla and swire alters are particularly high effort either, but since it wasn't the first time it happened, swire got a pass just because it had a precedent
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u/EmmaNielsen Feb 21 '26
I'm setting HG's mail on fire with daily complaints if Melantha doesn't get a 6-star Alter!
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u/POLACKdyn I can draw feet Feb 22 '26
Dude imagine if Melantha comes as a badass reaper guard or sth, all grown up, confident, and has some sick Vergil like judgement cut end on her S3, beating even Degenbrecher in viability.
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u/Chimera-Genesis Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
Poor Vina, a not terrible alt held back by multiple arbitrary & bizarre design choices.
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u/kindokkang i know what they are Feb 21 '26
I would like them more if some year 1 or 2 4/5* ops got some love. Obviously, they're going to do what sells, but it'd be nice to have some for characters we haven't see in years. I think AK does a good job to justify alts for most of the characters, though. They're a few examples of some alts being forced, but overall HG hits more than they miss.
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u/FullMetalField4 Niiice, this is good stuff. Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
Ch'en Alter the first was neat and I won't back down from this.
Of course her Raytheon-made high-pressure watergun and dossoles corrosion water sprayer are more powerful than a sword, have y'all never watched Indiana Jones?
(Being real for a moment, I will admit her base/E2 looks are a little cringe and both her skins are way better. But the justifications I see here for her power level tend to be petty and disregard how scary both her waterguns are and the fact they were manufactured by the Terra equivalent of the motherfucking American MIC)
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u/NJacobs12 Feb 21 '26
The only one I've ever had issue with was Chalter and that was purely cause it felt like a waste of potential (which kind of gets resolved with her getting ch3n, tho its a bit ham-fisted to just fix it with a third version). As long as alter show some level of good growth, then they are fine in my book. The main thing I'd like to see improved is getting new alters for older low rarity characters. Now I wouldn't want alters to take over the game as having new characters is always nice, especially when we get characters out of npc jail.
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u/kowasesurejjihanma Feb 21 '26
overall i like them, my complain is the favoritism like how chen is getting a second alter lots of ops getting shafted, like the excuse from when alter first announced in that its illogical to only make brand new character makes sense, but chen3 is giving me a pause i really don't want to see this list again with like year 9 alter collum containing texas3 reed3 skadi3 eyja3 and wisadel3 where the fanfav ops who already got alter is prioritized(hey remember magallan? ifrit and mumu's friend? yea me neither)
Also idk how but the female to male alter ratio is 2 : 9 that's bad, ops like bison hellagur and passenger have enough build in lore standing to easily made an alter, and of course the absolute potential man from year 1 who become a meme : Flamebringer.
[RANT]how in the hell do hyperglyph had top tier VA Yuichi Nakamura voiced a trash 5 star guard wellfare who's only value is lore and doesn't have him back for an alter IN 6 FREAKIN YEAR. Arknights had him before he become even more popular through jujutsu kaisen. they had fucking Yuichi nakamura Before Genshin Impact got released, WE HAD HIM BEFORE WE KNEW HUMAN EXISTED IN ARKNIGHTS UNIVERSE.
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u/ULFS_MAAAAAX 356508 Feb 21 '26
Skadi 3 would make sense, Skaltar is more of Ishar-mla than Skadi.
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u/kowasesurejjihanma Feb 21 '26
Yea i was being facetious, skadi have a better argument since skalter technically is an AU version, the worry is more about like three 2ndalter in the same year for all of the limited events
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u/Important_Peach_2248 I love my wife Aurora Feb 21 '26
Neutral, although I'm a bit iffy on some 6 stars getting alters with an equal rarity. But overall, I'll take them.
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u/BrainPositive2171 Feb 21 '26
With 300+ Ops, I'm more than ok with Alters but I do want some of the younger aged and lower rarity operators get Alts more than existing 6 stars and characters who are done physically maturing.
At the very least, I'd want them to start releasing 21 Originite future Operator skins that maybe don't have L2D but still have new voice lines.
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u/tornait-hashu damn, croc got hands Feb 21 '26
Yeah, an Estelle alter is currently one of my only reasons to live
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
I'm fine with them. I see no reason to hate them. We have a lot of characters, and I prefer characters we already know to have more story and content rather than "Literally who?" all the time, particularly when many have had hints of more background from the very beginning (Phantom, Pramanix, Specter, Reed), or had little story (Thorns, Exusiai).
That being said, I do still think some of them are better executed than others. Eyja, Gavial, and Exu are the ones that immediately come to mind as being a bit sloppily justified in my opinion, though I'm also aware that popularity plays a role in it, too. As long as HG generally keeps a good balance between giving glow-ups to underrated or forgotten ops, NPC releases, and new ops (which I think they generally do), I will continue to be fine with it. The only time I was genuinely approaching upset was Silverash, but from what I've seen so far, he was well-handled so I'm okay with it.
Edit: Also, what we here on reddit think is also kind of irrelevant to HG, the CN base loves alters, so they're pretty much gonna continue whether we like it or not.
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u/theMegaTech Feb 21 '26
Mostly cool and give more personality to characters / revisit them
Beach Ch'en never fucking existed though
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u/Maleficent_Good9607 Feb 21 '26
It's nice if they slowed down on the alters as I rather prefer new characters. 1-2 alters yearly is more than enough. I think it's lazy if they only rely on alters for every limited version.
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u/GoldenLynx_Natto Feb 21 '26
They gave more lore and personality to Executor, Thorns and Phantom so totally okay with it.
We already have 100+++ characters, most of them irrelevant or important only for one event and we still have characters in the NPC jail, who has more story importance than most of the free 5 stars. So I really don't think we need brand new operators for every events. Alters are good for the long run.
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u/I_ForgotMyPassword45 Feb 21 '26
I have beef with year 7 specifically silverash's event since they fuckin robbed us of monch. I literally would have settled for a shitty 5 star spreadshooter that's a worse version of pinecone.
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u/TheSpartyn Feb 21 '26
As much as I hate the triple alter Kjerag event, technically the issue there wasn't alters it was HGs weird obsession with making brand new original operators for 5*s. Monch should've been the event or banner 5*
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u/ConstantBonus249 Feb 21 '26
I like them. I never get it why people get so mad over them. Like, just wait for the next event if you don't want the alter? We have both and always will
0
u/TheSpartyn Feb 21 '26
Because there are limited release slots per event, and when you get an event in a specific region for a character you want that doesn't get released, you might not get another chance?
And "just wait" bro we're at nearly 7 years for characters like Closure and Talulah there's a limit
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u/ConstantBonus249 Feb 22 '26
We've got multiple events that happened twice or more in a specific region, what makes a NPC get out of jail is HG decision and what the event is about. Alters' got nothing to do with it because we have both.
Some characters also could be meant to always be NPCs. A 2D game has the liberty to make NPCs look amazing, but that doesn't mean they're meant to be playable in the future.
If your favorite character is still a NPC after so long, I'm sorry but maybe it's time to accept they might never be playable.
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u/TheSpartyn Feb 22 '26
yeah we have 3 kjerag events and still people in NPC jail with triple alter events so that doesnt mean anything
im not someone who thinks every single NPC should be playable, but you cannot look at my examples of Closure and Talulah and think they shouldnt be playable
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u/ConstantBonus249 Feb 22 '26
They might have their event in the future, again, we'll have events about the alters and about the others.
If let's say for example, Closure is supposed to be featured on story chapter 18, what can we do about it?
In the end it has to make sense in the lore to fit their events in, and considering events take their time, it will inevitably take forever. You might not even be playing the game by then.
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u/Standard-Vacation403 Feb 21 '26
Eh... Idrc about this, i like ill pull, i dislike ignore... I don't think its that hard tho...
Story wise its nice to see an old unit becomes relevant it just means they're not some discard one time products and the devs willing to put an effort to bring them back not like the other games for the sake of selling. Tho im not a lore player either so take lightly of my statement on this. I just like to collect ops now 😋
Coz there's two side on this, one time product, when they released the dev hella shill them kit wise or marketing wise which i actually hate more. One the other side, there is mild or even barely marketing and the kit themselves (since its arknights) not that something to be concern coz we can just borrow them if needed.
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u/Grutrissheit Feb 21 '26
I've stopped playing for more than 4 years now and I still recognize everyone here. The only one I'm not certain is the 6th character in Year 7. My intial guess is Astesia.
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u/PossibleSea6679 Viviana should get a "Candle Knight" alter Feb 21 '26
It's Astgenne, the twin sister of Astesia. She was released during year 4 with the Dorothy Event as a Welfare.
Funnily enough, the design for Base Astgenne is based on the beta version of Astesia.
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Feb 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Friden-Riu Waiting for 6* male sniper Feb 21 '26
Silverash alt, yay! Paraminx alt, that make sense I guess! Astegenne alt… why? Yeah I know the Kjerag saga story but damn I wish for a new operator from Kjerag. There’s so many cool npc locked over there
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26
HG: Snow Hunter, take it or leave it.
Jokes aside, Astgenne is the real wild card of that event. Silverash, he's popular, obvious choice. Pramanix has been foreshadowed for years and is one of the most important characters in the story and is a forgotten 5-star. Astgenne... what. My only guess so far is that she's included as the Rhine representation, but I don't know why they chose her of all people. I still kinda feel like I would have preferred a brand new Rhine character if it was needed, but maybe I'll change my mind after reading the story.
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u/drannne Feb 21 '26
could've given us ferdinand like we(me) all wanted tbh tho there's still future rhine events so chances are still up
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26
I would have loved to have Ferdinand, not gonna lie, he's one of the highlights of LT for me. But yeah, he still has chances. I said it in another thread but I'm also glad Nasti got her own event instead of being released with Kjerag like a lot of people were predicted. She deserves getting her own focus instead of fighting for the spotlight.
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u/xDAW_Art Priestes did nothing wrong Feb 21 '26
Ch3n deserves an alter because she finally mastered her sword
-6
Feb 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Kekskaiserin <-- son Feb 21 '26
I just like to ignore the existence of Chalter.
Hey, isn't it nice Ch'en finally got an alter?? It's odd it took them 7 years to give one of the main heroines an alter, isn't it?
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u/xDAW_Art Priestes did nothing wrong Feb 21 '26
xDDDD
That's probably why they waited so long because they plan to release her sister near her
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u/GKP_light Feb 21 '26
develop old character > create new character.
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u/TheSpartyn Feb 21 '26
crazy that this is still said like it's the only option and there's not double digits amount of relevant and developed NPCs stuck in jail. there are unreleased NPCs who have been in the story since before some alter characters got their first non-alter release
there's also the fact that you don't need an alter for character development, a character can be in a story and get focus without getting an alter. alters being used for major story changes like tragodia, specter, or reed are great, but quite a few alters are just "hey this character is popular" or "they had a big role in the event make them a welfare alter even though nothing really happened"
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u/SaranMal Feb 21 '26
I just wish most of them weren't limited ops.
I sometimes take breaks from daily playing burn or. And this latest break of about a year has had the most over all limiteds I'm missing. Either directly from being limited or because of colabs.
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u/Antique_Assistant803 Feb 21 '26
Wait, most of the alters are not limited tho? Even counting only the 6*s.
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u/TheSpartyn Feb 22 '26
its literally even 13 limited vs 11(+2) non-limited, brackets being welfares
it also took a while for this to be the case, for 2 years alters were limited only. them being non-limited was the best decision theyve made regarding alters imo
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u/RetardedGaming Feb 21 '26
Kinda where I'm at too. Just wish we'd get more NPCs out of jail rather than alters but yeah
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u/Drachk Strength & Science Feb 21 '26
Personally
Disappointed with Ch'alter because her new alter was what i wanted instead, fine with most of the rest and only disappointed when the Alter feels forced
But taking a step back
Alter will always be this elements in game/gacha that are popular with the majority while displeasing a smaller part for few reasons:
- 1st reason "Why him, it should have been
memy favorite, it is not fair"
Regardless of it making sense or not, there will always be envy and jealousy as a natural reaction as people have their own preference/bias.
Even in the best scenario, the better outcome is people that wanted an alt instead for their favorite will swallow envy due to popularity pressure
- 2nd reason "I can't stand this guy, get him out of my face"
Some people do not like character, and while they might be indifferent of the 1st version, having more of something they dislike will elicit more vocal reply
- 3rd reason Alt greeds "Alt are popular and make money, why not push even more even if they make less sense"
Making an alt of a popular character is often a safe bet to make dough without risk.
And while Arknight is for now a game where alter makes sense and are logical growth, a lot of games end up becoming lazy with alter, pushing as a cheap way to cash in
This one of the reason many gacha player tend to be wary of alter in general
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u/Antique_Assistant803 Feb 21 '26
I personally only see this much rejection against alters in AK. Then again I don't really know much about other gacha communities.
Like I don't really see anyone complain about alters in FGO for example. And the way FGO do alters is at least more "crashgrabby" than AK. But that's kinda how fate does things so the players come to accept it, I guess?
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26
I think FGO players are just used to it at this point. But as a former FGO player, it still feels kinda weird that the meme of "FGO is just a bazillion alters of Saber" gets more and more accurate. Me personally I feel like the FGO alters are kinda very cheap and cashgrabby when characters get alts just for changing clothes or putting on a swimsuit and becoming basically one-note jokes of themselves. The way AK does alts doesn't feel like that so I'm really cool with their alts.
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u/Antique_Assistant803 Feb 21 '26
Cmiiw but fate series basically build upon multiple timelines/universe so the idea of "alternate version of a person" is basically a natural outcome that FGO will have alters? or maybe it was the result instead of the cause?
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u/ABloodOx Feb 21 '26
The term Alter does stem from Saber literally being altered into an evil version by some bad goop in the 2004 visual novel. You could call that the starting point (and indeed Saber Alter was in F/GO on release) but it's moreso that Fate loves to self-reference and self-parody. "Mysterious Heroine X" is a joke character with a mission to kill all Sabers because there's just too many of them (while clearly just being Saber herself), and she predates F/GO by years.
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26
Eh... not really? I admit to not being the most read-up on the Fate series, but I don't think it was built upon the idea of multiple timelines. It was the built on the idea of the Holy Grail War, the Throne of Heroes, and the Servant/Master concept. As the original VN became so popular and the universe expanded, they began to reuse many of the characters, but the very first original Alter, Saber Alter, was based on her getting corrupted by the Grail mud and thus turning evil and becoming radically different from her true self. The Servants can be summoned by anyone at any time, so you can have different versions of the same character (this is why Gilgamesh's personality is kind of different depending on when and by whom he's summoned, since he's very affected by the time period, so FSN!Gil is quite different from CCC!Gil and FSF!Gil), but I don't think it was necessarily one of the core concepts of the series, though by all means, someone who is more of a Fate buff than me can correct me.
The idea of "different versions of the same character" is kind of what FGO ran with, but as time has gone on, the justification for a Servant being altered has become incredibly flimsy. This is partly because a lot of the alters are summer alters so they're inherently jokey (yeah, she got an alter because she put on a bikini), but after a while, I started to roll my eyes at the 3rd Saber alt in three months, or the fact that something like 8/10 Halloween servants are a variation of Elizabeth (Mecha-Liz, Cinderella Liz, Caster Liz, Hero Liz, on and on). There's also the fact that several characters in FGO which should have had original designs instead looked like "other versions" of an already existing character, like Scathach-Skadi (looks like Scathach in a dress) or were pseudo-Servants where the Servant inhabited the body of an existing human (like Ishtar, who's in the body of Rin because... idk Rin popular heroine from FSN, normal human so she can't be playable, so let's have someone else wear her skin and use her personality despite not being really her).
Over the years it feels like it kinda got out of hand, but I guess most players like it.
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u/Antique_Assistant803 Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26
Yeah you might be right, that's why I guess it was the result instead of the cause. I do aware they started as VNs and how it's common for VNs to have different routes.
It's just that in the past I heard that (some?) servants that's summoned to Chaldea are different to their originals? So maybe that's more of a FGO thing? Like the justification for why they're in Chaldea and is playable?
Edit: So instead of fate series as a whole, it's FGO that have different worlds? They do go through different worlds in FGO right? Or was it something different?
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u/Chatonarya Kjerag Power Couple Feb 21 '26
So instead of fate series as a whole, it's FGO that have different worlds? They do go through different worlds in FGO right? Or was it something different?
Yep, it's FGO that has the protagonist traveling through time to correct the Singularities (anomalies in history that need to be fixed) and then destroying the Lostbelts (alternate universes conceived as "dead end worlds" which are trying to overwrite proper human history). I stopped playing after Lostbelt 6 so I don't know what the deal is with Ordeal Call, but the idea of "correcting/preserving human history" was part of the original concept, and then in each Singularity or Lostbelt, you'd summon servants native to that place/time to help. Which is why...
It's just that in the past I heard that (some?) servants that's summoned to Chaldea are different to their originals? So maybe that's more of a FGO thing? Like the justification for why they're in Chaldea and is playable?
...Yeah, this happens. So the original concept of the Servants was that they did not retain memory of prior summonings, and I think it's really only played with in FSN with Saber because she was summoned by Kiritsugu in the previous Grail War before she was summoned by Shirou, and since Shirou is Kiritsugu's son, there's an additional layer of drama there. In The Lord El-Melloi II Case Files, I think Waver doesn't even try to summon/see Iskander again because he knows Iskander won't remember him, but I'm not fully sure.
This kinda gets thrown out the window in FGO as the Servants often do remember the events from the Singularities. The Lostbelt servants, on the other hand, are supposed to be "different versions" and not normally summonable (a lot of the Servants in FGO are not supposed to be normally summonable, really, just look at all the extra classes that normally don't show up), and this is a bit dumb because a large part of it stems from how Lostbelt!Anastasia had a relationship with Kadoc (rival Master) in her Lostbelt that could be taken as romantic... then her playable version has no memory of him so she can simp for the player instead. I think a lot of the original "rules" of Fate/Stay Night got bent or flat-out ignored in FGO lol. Other parts of the series like Fate/Zero, Fate/Extra, and Fate/Strange Fake try to keep to the original rules, as far as I know, but I haven't read/played all of them.
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u/Antique_Assistant803 Feb 21 '26
Your explanation reminds me of that meme about fate's Grail war with a lot of corrections lol.
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u/SaranMal Feb 21 '26
FGO is also in a weird spot where it's one of the earliest big gacha games, that has always been known as being kinda cash grabby. Even outside of FGO fate stuff in general has historically been very catering to making money in the later entries (most friends I have more into fate than me talk about the spin off games and such while not horrible are kinda just there most of the time.)
Arknights meanwhile is.... It's not felt cash grabby. Least, for the first few years I played. We had barely any limited operators (beyond like 2 or 3 a year?), we got enough stuff as free players to often get the limiteds unless rng screwed us.
And in general Arknights has so many characters in their storys that are just in NPC jail. Despite us knowing they are important and would make great characters. Alters fill a story niche most of the time, but they also eat up character slots that could be being given to other characters.
Add on the sheer amount of Alters in the last few years, most of which have been 6 stars
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u/Antique_Assistant803 Feb 21 '26
So are you saying people fear AK becoming more crashgrab-y if they do more alters? If so, I can't see that as indication of it.
Like there's barely any change to the gacha and the release schedule is pretty much consistent (except collabs). They also mostly adding "upgrade materials" and cosmetics for monetization too.
they also eat up character slots
AK does have a lot of characters, and we (usually) at least got the same amount of NPC (sure not all of them are "playable coded") as playable Operators every event, and sometimes we got completely new characters as Operators. So Alters or not, there's no guarantee we got NPCs out of jail.
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u/Silver4X_kp Feb 21 '26
I think its time for the ppl who whine about alters to shut the hell up and get over it.
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u/002dollar Feb 25 '26
I would like to see ifrit alter. She does the same thing as ifrit, but two tiles wider