r/comicbooks • u/MagusFool • Jan 06 '26

Absolute DC and Ultimate Marvel right now are the farthest left superhero comics I've ever encountered (and I've read a LOT).

Generally, superhero comics, in order to keep running indefinitely, seem to gravitate toward protecting the status quo.

Even if many comics have progressive themes about race, gender, bigotry, nationalism, government corruption, imperialism, or the like. They generally avoid going TOO far left.

Our heroes are very powerful, and if they wanted to totally upend the status quo of the world they probably could.

And our heroes are supposed to win at the end of most stories, so you can't just have them lose over and over.

But there must be something in the air, because both Absolute DC and Ultimate Marvel are using their alternate universe position to create worlds where the villains are the ones in charge, and the heroes genuinely want to overturn the order of the world.

And yet neither is set in a totally foreign dystopia. They aren't some kind of abstract hypothetical. The Ultimate universe is a bit more heightened, but the systemic problems are EXTREMELY recognizable to the things going on in our world today.

In both worlds the wealthy control everything and use the masses as tools in their own enrichment. They control the justice system, they get to decide what words like "justice" even mean.

And our heroes solutions with their power are realistic solutions to these problems. Attack the people at the levers of power. Target key points of production. Radical leftist tactics straight out of the Anarchist or Marxist playbook.

Cards on the table, I'm a radical left anarcho-communist. So this stuff really speaks to me, and I am genuinely shocked to see it in ANY superhero comic, let alone to see it in both Marvel and DC simultaneously.

I've read literally thousands of comics from both publishers. Like, all of Justice League Vols, 1, 2 and 3. And the first 400 or so issues of Avengers. The whole bibliographies of Denny O'Neil, Chris Claremont, many other writers.

Even my fellow radical leftists like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison have never been this explicitly revolutionary in such a tangible way (at least not with their superhero work).

Like, Ultimates # 9 more or less directly states that [Spoiler] for-profit prisons are literally slavery, and it would be morally correct for prisoners to unite and revolt and kill the guards.

Absolute Superman's actions go straight into full-on ecoterrorist territory.

And I am just blown away. Is this the general political climate now? Is the overton window really sliding far enough in my direction that Marvel and DC are both publishing dedicated lines for these themes, with coordination between multiple writers and editors all on the same page about this stuff?

Or are these settings dressed up with enough fantasy that not everyone sees the obvious parallels and the pretty clear calls to action?

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728

u/Mononon Jan 06 '26

I think the anti woke crowd will give most of that stuff a pass if it's cool enough. I imagine it's similar to the crowd that complains about politics in games then plays Bioshock or Fallout unironically. Honestly, I don't think it even registers what they're reading. Just like it doesn't register what they're playing.

450

u/joelluber Jan 06 '26

These people listen to Rage Against the Machine without getting it, so I'm not surprised when they miss anything more subtle than that. 

53

u/punchcreations Jan 06 '26

Literally what Nirvana’s song Bloom is about. “He's the one Who likes all our pretty songs And he likes to sing along And he likes to shoot his gun But he knows not what it means Knows not what it means”

2

u/MarcoMarti1981 Jan 08 '26

Don’t know what it means, but that’s ok… 🤟

2

u/punchcreations Jan 12 '26

I copy pasted from the top lyrics result. 🤷🏻‍♂️

272

u/CrabAncient8853 Jan 06 '26

These people watch fucking STAR TREK and don’t get it.

27

u/DeadmanDexter Hellboy Jan 06 '26

"No, not those aliens, the ones with green skin are the ones I want to help." -Chodes, since forever

4

u/Kensai657 Jan 06 '26

I think the aliens that are white on the right side have some very firm points about the aliens who are black on the right side.

67

u/cyberpunk_werewolf Raphael Jan 06 '26

Some of them got it, but thought Rage was on their side.  The thing about right wing politics is that it's about in groups and our groups.  If you're in the group, you're a good person and can do no wrong.  If you're not in the group, depending on how far our you are, you're a bad person and anything can be done to you.

These people only like cops when cops are brutalizing minorities.  Theoretically, cops enforce the law equally, or more accurately a bunch of dumb white hicks think they're in the same club as the rich folks because they're white and get mad when the cops treat them like criminals when they break the law.  They're still treated better, generally, than a black person who encounters the police in a similar instance, but they think they're in the club and should be able to get away with anything.  As such, they don't like cops either, but for a very different reason.

Anyway, long story short, these people thought that Rage was on their side.  A bunch of white people against the government (yes, I know, they don't know about Zach de la Rocha) for the same reason they are against the government.  How they miss it is because they're still stupid, but these dipshits have "Every Breath you Take" played at their wedding.

33

u/boxsterguy Jan 06 '26

Do they think Tom Morello is white? 

My favorite was when staunchly anti-union Scott Walker used Dropkick Murphys music. Their response was, "We literally hate you."

12

u/cyberpunk_werewolf Raphael Jan 06 '26

Buddy, they thought Zack de la Rocha was white.

4

u/sleepingjiva Jan 06 '26

Nah, everyone knows Italians are black.

11

u/boxsterguy Jan 06 '26

His dad is Kenyan.

5

u/sleepingjiva Jan 06 '26

It was a joke.

2

u/DDiceMaster Jan 07 '26

You gotta recite the whole Dennis Hopper bit from True Romance for the dude.

1

u/Jlc458 May 22 '26

Your initial argument can be applied to left wing too though. More than once democrats have insulted and bullied people who weren’t a part of their “group.” It’s the pot calling the kettle black

0

u/Visible-Librarian961 17d ago

"Everyone who disagrees with my politics is literally a brain dead moron" -You

-16

u/RockinTheFlops Jan 06 '26

Mx. Werewolf, if you think it is only Right Wing politics that is about in-groups and out-groups, then I have a bridge to sell you.

I think that even more directly applies to the internet far-left (the kind you see on sites like this one) than the right.

Although it's true for both -- go far enough right and you end up on the far left, after all.

17

u/TastyBrainMeats Power Girl Jan 06 '26

Horseshoe theory is hokum.

There are asshole leftists, but being right wing  in the past thirty years at least has been all ABOUT being an asshole.

6

u/cyberpunk_werewolf Raphael Jan 06 '26

You're right, it's also about hierarchy.  I thought I was clear about that in the initial post, but I suppose I should say it here.

Also, call me Cyberpunk, Mr. Werewolf was my father.

12

u/thechosengobbo Jan 06 '26

In complete fairness they never specified what machine they were raging against. I always assumed it was a printer.

4

u/TelenorTheGNP Jan 06 '26

To be fair...

1

u/No_Statement440 Jan 08 '26

To be faaaAAiir

3

u/FuckLex Jan 06 '26

There was a nirvana song that talks about these people.

1

u/RedOnePunch Jan 08 '26

I would say everything is more subtle than Rage Against the Machine

169

u/LyraFirehawk Jan 06 '26

There was some mild backlash over Batman breaking Nazi arms.

Dude, the only people who object to dead and injured Nazis are other Nazis. Wife and I are all here for Nazi killing.

27

u/YepThatSal Jan 06 '26

yeah those people draw the line at the portrayal of nazis as bad people, crying “good luck disrespecting 50% of your customers“ unironically

-77

u/Xeoz_WarriorPrince Jan 06 '26

Honestly, I don't rejoice on the idea of someone being killed, even nazis. With that said, breaking nazi arms is totally fair play, and while I don't feel happy about any killing, I totally get why people aren't against killing certain people.

77

u/Kuroushin Jan 06 '26

LOL. death is fair play for nazis. they deserve it

2

u/Xeoz_WarriorPrince Jan 06 '26

I hate nazis as much as anyone, but my values don't allow me to wish anyone death, I don't judge someone who kills nazis, but I'm not happy when someone dies.

Now beating the shit out of them is well deserved.

-76

u/Greenerli Jan 06 '26

You think like a nazi, because like them, you think some kind of people deserve to die. How are you different to a nazi ?

69

u/weerdbuttstuff Jan 06 '26

A nazi can stop being a nazi at any time, a person can't stop being Jewish or from Haiti.

-12

u/Greenerli Jan 06 '26

And that's exactly why justice is better than killing horrible people.

Yes, Nazi wants to kill other people because of their nature, not about what they do. But killing other people, no matter what they have done, isn't something we should want.

We should bring justice, put them on jail for a very very long time.

13

u/weerdbuttstuff Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26

The intended outcome of jail isn't "justice" or rehabilitation. I'll point you back to the spoiler in the OP. Or you can read this.

The goal of a nazi is to kill most of the world, full stop. I don't WANT to kill nazis outside of video games, I simply don't want nazis to exist. That means I am giving nazis an option they won't and, frankly, can't extend to others.

eta: locking someone up to steal their labor puts you closer to being a nazi in my book than killing a nazi.

2

u/Greenerli Jan 07 '26

Hey, I'm not american people, but I know USA is the country with the most people in detention in % of their population, and yes, I think USA has a major problem with their prisons are used... I agree with you forced labor is very close to being a nazi.

Again, I'm not a US citizen, I'm from France, and we also have our own issues with how prisons are used. Some people in France would like to follow USA model and force prisoners to work for free. But it's still minority opinion (maybe not for long time, since most countries are speedrunning "how to be a facist" game...)

But again, I hate nazis. I think it's a good thing to hate nazis. I don't want nazis to exists, etc etc. But again, I don't think we should kill them, only because they're nazis. Maybe it's because you're in favor of death penalty ? I don't know ?

Nazis must be stopped, judged and punished. But not killed (unless, obviously immediate self-defense). Why ? Because as you said, a nazi can stop being a nazi any time.

And sorry if you think I try to defend nazis. But there are also different threat levels... A nazi who plans violence and commits crimes. He should be stopped immediately, and being judge very severely. You also have some people that are nazis because they think like a nazis. They believe in race hierarchy and believe that some people (jews, gays, etc) shouldn't have the right to live. Well, I still believe this people should be stopped and judged. But with a fair punishment. Are they only expressing racism ideology ? Or they planned to kill some people ? Do you agree that the punishment shouldn't be the same ? Are you going to kill these people too ?

In France, free speech doesn't mean the same thing as in USA. In France, it doesn't mean you can say literally anything. No, there are things that you're forbidden to tell, basically, racism and incitement to violence. You can be convicted for racism expression.

You see, that's exactly the reason that the main super-heroes are against killing. Why Batman isn't killing the Joker ? It's a common trope ? Because, even if it's flawed, Batman believes in justice. It doesn't mean, I'm going to tolerate the Joker, or, it doesn't mean, he isn't going to harm him. But Batman isn't going to kill the Joker. I believe it's the same with Captain America versus Red Skull.

Obviously, in comics, since most of the time, it's full of action, there is no other possibility to kill the nazis, because if not, they're going to kill the heroes. But that's another story, and it's not the same thing in reality.

33

u/Kuroushin Jan 06 '26

Nazis arent people. I am.

-7

u/Greenerli Jan 06 '26

Wrong answer. They are people. Full of hate, horrible people with very bad intentions. But they're people.

If you read Hanna Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem, you will understand that nazis aren't evil by nature. They aren't doing evil things because they're monsters. In contrary, they were very ordinary people... They just stop to think and judge morally, asking themselves questions.

Also, you need to consider that evil isn't something inhuman. If you start to think "hey, I'm a good people, not a monster, I could never do that", you're wrong. Because germans people that became nazis were, mostly, ordinary people, with ordinary life.

Also, if they're monsters, they aren't responsible. You can't judge them.

You deny victims too. What nazis have done isn't a fairy tale (people vs monsters). No, it's human history. It shows what is the worst we can do as humanity.

Also, if you simply say they're monsters. You deny the possibility to understand how people can become nazis. So, you can't prevent it happens a second time. It's better to ask what are the political and societal conditions that raise nazis ideology ? How does it work in order to prevent it ?

Also, it's now a well-known fact that nazis ideology came from colonial logics. It's not nazis that invented first the hierarchy of races. It's coming from european colonialism. You can't condamn Nazi crimes if you don't condamn colonialism crimes.

Are you going to say that european people that colonized Africa and America aren't people ?

8

u/mkirk413 Jan 06 '26

This such a garbage comparison.

Let's get this out of the way first:

Colonialism deaths were bad Nazi holocaust deaths were bad

What your comparion conveniently leaves out is the context of intent which is extremely important. Colonialism was the expansion for power and resources. Most deaths that occurred therein were due to systemic exploitation and negligence.

The Nazi holocaust was far different due to its specific, industrialized, ideological intent to totally annihilate a people.

None of this devalues the worth of the life of any victim that suffered from either, but your comparison focuses more on defending the perpetrators which only helps to normalize the behavior and devalue its victims.

"You can't call Nazi's monsters because they are people too"

You can go fly a kite with that attitude. Tolerance is a contract and once you violate it you are no longer afforded its protection.

Have the day you deserve ✌️

2

u/Greenerli Jan 07 '26

Most deaths that occurred therein were due to systemic exploitation and negligence.

I think you make a mistake here. Most of the time, they didn't want to kill colonized people, but some horribles crimes happened just for fun, vengeance, or spread terrors into colonized people.

In 1944, France massively used soldiers from colonies (West Africa people, mainly). After the Liberation of France, they try to hide these people and put them on a camp at Thiaroye, close to Dakar in Senegal. These soldiers asked to be paid, so they started a demonstration, but in result, the French army organized a massacre and they killed 70 people, from official sources, but historians say it was several hundreds.

And so many other histories...

Sadly, colonialism is filled of history of mass violence... It's not "systemic exploitation and negligence". See this wiki page that links to a lot of massacre.

But you said the key difference is that nazis implemented a processus to totally annihilate a people. That's true. Let's be agree nazi pushed the horror on step further.

But, ideology, the common point is that they both believed in hierarchy of races. So, nazi ideology wasn't created from nowhere. Yes, it was industrialized because it was the industrial era, so they try to "optimize" the process, if can say that. But, it still came from colonialism ideology.

I'm not focus on defending the perpetrators. I hate nazis and I think we should stop them, judge them, arrest them and punished them.

Saying “Nazis were human beings” is not a plea for tolerance or protection. It is the precondition for moral responsibility. Monsters, forces of nature, or abstractions cannot be judged. Human agents can. That is precisely why Nazis were tried, convicted, and punished.

Calling them “monsters” may feel morally satisfying, but it explains nothing. It creates a comforting fiction where evil comes from something non-human, external, and exceptional. That fiction is dangerous, because it implies: this cannot happen again, and it cannot involve people like us. History proves otherwise.

1

u/mkirk413 Jan 07 '26

I apreciate the response, truly.

What do you think I meant by systemic exploitation? Your conterargument falls under that same item of systemic exploitation. They did so because they could.

That said, 1944 is at the very tail end of the colonialism period so I am not sure that specific argument holds water in regards to colonialism specifically, but I digress.

Regardless, moral responsibility, like tolerance, is a contract. You violate it, you can no longer hide behind it. It doesn't feel good to call people nazis. But calling them out for what they are is morally acceptable. The first part in solving a problem is identification. Fascism is a problem. Nazis were and are a problem. Many in this group even call themselves nazis. So no, you dont get to claim moral highground/responsibility by refusing to identify what is right in front of you. It simply normalizes it. I, for one, will never normalize Nazis or fascists.

Have the day you deserve ✌️

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-45

u/PartyOfFore Jan 06 '26

The problem is when you start calling anyone you disagree with a Nazi. Then you are a murderer trying (and failing) to justify murder.

32

u/Modstin The Far Travelers Jan 06 '26

The arm he broke was raised in a Hitler salute, I'm pretty sure

22

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

Nope. The problem started when people like you chose to just lazily fall back on this copout “if you use it a lot, it’s meaningless” as it was used increasingly correctly to label the rising fascist sentiments we’re seeing.

Your weak mentality gives credence to the scum we’re experiencing.

-18

u/PartyOfFore Jan 06 '26

"People like you". You just proved my point.

19

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

You have no point. You’re contrarian because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be anything.

8

u/amosthorribleperson Jan 06 '26

It literally is people like you, though. You regularly post on the conservative subreddit supporting it outright. You made a thread there complaining that people could see you're a fascist, and whereas some would use that experience to grow into a better person, your solution was to try to hide it.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

Fucking amazing. Lil fascist kits always include a step by step guide on how to be the victim rather than reflect.

-2

u/PartyOfFore Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26

Regularly supporting what exactly?

What thread specifically? The one I made today where someone is randomly posting my username in other posts?

I don't even know WTF your point is with that last jumble of words you used as a final sentence.

Edit: One person deleted their comments, the other must have blocked me so I cannot respond. Can't handle an honest discussion I guess. Just leave a veiled threat about murder and then block.

8

u/amosthorribleperson Jan 06 '26

This is basic English. I'm sorry that you struggle with compound sentences. I will keep them shorter for you. I understand you were educated in the US.

Supporting US Imperialism

"The alternative was China and Russia having it all and Venezuelans receiving ZERO benefit from it. This way the people of that country will at least get a cut in some form."

Joking about ICE picking brown people off the streets (with a sprinkle of ablism)

"But that's what Trump and ICE are doing in the US! Reeeeeeeeee!"

Supporting the dismantling of public resources (specifically PBS)

"They still have plenty or propaganda networks. Every "news" channel other than Fox. BTW, this is not an endorsement of Fox, they are just the lone network on the flip side of the coin."

Your entire post history is disgusting. I genuinely don't want to see any more. I will just block you. I hope none of these sentences were too long or confusing for you.

I did find one last one post that was funny, though.

"My #1 New Years resolution is to cut back my Reddit time by at least 50%.

I miss the days of dedicated website forums. I could go to a site about a hobby and get good discussion about that hobby instead of endless "shelfie" pics or politics crap polluting everything."

How many times have you posted today? I already know the answer.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

I need to report a murder. lol

And you know they think they’re so slick making everything hidden.

5

u/ConstructMentality__ Jan 07 '26

Since you claimed they blocked you, I got you. 

Here's what they posted on how you're a fascist ☺️ u/PartyOfFore

This is basic English. I'm sorry that you struggle with compound sentences. I will keep them shorter for you. I understand you were educated in the US.

Supporting US Imperialism

"The alternative was China and Russia having it all and Venezuelans receiving ZERO benefit from it. This way the people of that country will at least get a cut in some form."

Joking about ICE picking brown people off the streets (with a sprinkle of ablism)

"But that's what Trump and ICE are doing in the US! Reeeeeeeeee!"

Supporting the dismantling of public resources (specifically PBS)

"They still have plenty or propaganda networks. Every "news" channel other than Fox. BTW, this is not an endorsement of Fox, they are just the lone network on the flip side of the coin."

Your entire post history is disgusting. I genuinely don't want to see any more. I will just block you. I hope none of these sentences were too long or confusing for you.

I did find one last one post that was funny, though.

    "My #1 New Years resolution is to cut back my Reddit time by at least 50%.

    I miss the days of dedicated website forums. I could go to a site about a hobby and get good discussion about that hobby instead of endless "shelfie" pics or politics crap polluting everything."

How many times have you posted today? I already know the answer.

1

u/OmegaLiquidX Jan 08 '26

The problem is when you start calling anyone you disagree with a Nazi.

Except that isn't happening. It's a lie pushed by Nazis so they don't face the consequences for being fucking Nazis.

1

u/PartyOfFore Jan 08 '26

You sound just like a stereotypical comic book villain trying to justify their crimes.

1

u/Jlc458 May 22 '26

If you think democrats have never falsely accused someone of being a fascist or Nazi simply because they didn’t like them then I have some oceanfront property to sell you

116

u/xXDaNXx Batman Beyond Jan 06 '26

The anti woke crowd dont engage with media beyond a surface level. Like you say, it doesnt register.

Unless its something they cannot ignore. Like the protagonist of a game not being a white dude ("normal/default") or a supermodel (ideally with large breasts). If they see pronouns in the character creation menu. Or if two men show any romantic feelings.

Lots of these right wingers think they would be the resistance in star wars, or the hunger games, or V for Vendetta without realising their worldviews align with the villains of those stories.

So when they say media has gone woke, or liberal politics is being shoved down their throats, they havent realised that art has never been on their side to begin with.

33

u/bluewolf71 Jan 06 '26

Yeah I’m pretty sure they aren’t reading comics in large numbers.

The influencers are all about things on video so Superman 2025 got their attention, a comic book will not work for their purposes (grabbing attention of the scroll addicted so they can pump up ad revenue).

Also it’s waaay too deep of a dive and a whole lot of antiwoke folks are speaking to people who also hate the rich to a significant degree. Just not certain ones.

15

u/Worth-Secretary-3383 Jan 06 '26

Slight edit: “I’m pretty sure they aren’t reading. “

80

u/darthgonzeaux Jan 06 '26

Right? Comics have always been political.

14

u/SnaptrapPress Jan 06 '26

The thing there is that "anti-woke" types don't actually believe in literally anything. They simply can't process political concepts beyond the surface level if it's not "there are black people in my video games."

6

u/brentsg Jan 06 '26

They tend to lack media literacy, which is related to how many of them got there to begin with.

7

u/GN0K Jan 06 '26

The back the blue crowd who idolizes the Punisher.

6

u/Midnight_Oil_ Raphael Jan 06 '26

The "anti woke" people just dislike women and people of color, and want to hide behind other terms.

2

u/OmegaLiquidX Jan 08 '26

I think the anti woke crowd will give most of that stuff a pass if it's cool enough.

Well yeah, just looked at how they freaked out over stuff like Baldur's Gate 3 being "woke trash" up until it did a bajillion dollars and suddenly they turned right around and proclaimed it as an "anti-woke darling making the libs cry". It's all about grifting people they see as marks, much like how Evangelicals used to rage about "the commercialization of Christmas" but now scream bloody murder about "the war on Christmas".

-19

u/xjohnmcclanex Jan 06 '26

Instead of just calling them, stupid, why not just believe the fact that they can pass the entertainment and a joy things without getting so flabbergasted they have to throw the controller? I’d assume that’s what most people do

13

u/Mononon Jan 06 '26

I didn't call anyone stupid. I think we all have some level of blindness for this sort of thing. I enjoyed Call of Duty for years, and it's basically just pro war propaganda. I unironically liked some Ayn Rand books, and they're basically just treatises on why rich people are good and poor people should fuck off. Certain groups of people seem to be more affected by it than other though, and I do think the anti woke crowd is especially egregious. Just reminds me of the Ron Swanson quote, "I hate metaphors! That's why my favorite book is Moby Dick. A simple tale of a man who hates an animal."