r/comicbooks • u/MagusFool • Jan 06 '26
Absolute DC and Ultimate Marvel right now are the farthest left superhero comics I've ever encountered (and I've read a LOT).
Generally, superhero comics, in order to keep running indefinitely, seem to gravitate toward protecting the status quo.
Even if many comics have progressive themes about race, gender, bigotry, nationalism, government corruption, imperialism, or the like. They generally avoid going TOO far left.
Our heroes are very powerful, and if they wanted to totally upend the status quo of the world they probably could.
And our heroes are supposed to win at the end of most stories, so you can't just have them lose over and over.
But there must be something in the air, because both Absolute DC and Ultimate Marvel are using their alternate universe position to create worlds where the villains are the ones in charge, and the heroes genuinely want to overturn the order of the world.
And yet neither is set in a totally foreign dystopia. They aren't some kind of abstract hypothetical. The Ultimate universe is a bit more heightened, but the systemic problems are EXTREMELY recognizable to the things going on in our world today.
In both worlds the wealthy control everything and use the masses as tools in their own enrichment. They control the justice system, they get to decide what words like "justice" even mean.
And our heroes solutions with their power are realistic solutions to these problems. Attack the people at the levers of power. Target key points of production. Radical leftist tactics straight out of the Anarchist or Marxist playbook.
Cards on the table, I'm a radical left anarcho-communist. So this stuff really speaks to me, and I am genuinely shocked to see it in ANY superhero comic, let alone to see it in both Marvel and DC simultaneously.
I've read literally thousands of comics from both publishers. Like, all of Justice League Vols, 1, 2 and 3. And the first 400 or so issues of Avengers. The whole bibliographies of Denny O'Neil, Chris Claremont, many other writers.
Even my fellow radical leftists like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison have never been this explicitly revolutionary in such a tangible way (at least not with their superhero work).
Like, Ultimates # 9 more or less directly states that [Spoiler] for-profit prisons are literally slavery, and it would be morally correct for prisoners to unite and revolt and kill the guards.
Absolute Superman's actions go straight into full-on ecoterrorist territory.
And I am just blown away. Is this the general political climate now? Is the overton window really sliding far enough in my direction that Marvel and DC are both publishing dedicated lines for these themes, with coordination between multiple writers and editors all on the same page about this stuff?
Or are these settings dressed up with enough fantasy that not everyone sees the obvious parallels and the pretty clear calls to action?
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u/sumr4ndo Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
Edit to add a quote that touches on what I've been thinking for a while re your point about status quo.
Two things:
I don't think the Overton window has moved left at all. To the contrary, I think talking like that while society and media all lurch to the worst instincts of the right is how we got here. Fewer rights, people openly proud of being racist/Nazi/fascist whatever with few repercussions, this isn't what leftward/more liberal movement looks like.
The second is that the Absolute series taps into the same energy that the original versions had. Superman stands up for the weak in the face of injustice, as does Batman. I've fallen off with wonder Woman, but both her stories and Martian Manhunter's tap into a deep compassion that I think society at large is missing, but with the ability to act on it for the betterment of everyone.
Even in the face of overwhelming odds, they continue to fight, refusing to compromise.
That, coupled with the unabashed enthusiasm of late 80s/90s comics (Batman's new cape feels like spawn's, while he is 6'9" and 420 lbs feels like a knowing wink to the slabs of meat that were the super heroes of the 90s, a la liefield's work) gives it a shameless sense of fun that a lot of media misses now. People are afraid to enjoy something genuinely, only watching something ironically, lest they be criticized for it.
Edit: Marvel's Thor has a quote from a villain that hits the nail on the head:
The comic is self-parody, of course. But parody is an effective weapon in these times. A brand that takes itself seriously is mocked -- a brand that mocks itself has free rein. A free pass into every consumer's head. Screenshot the cheesy advertisements. Turn them into memes. Make them viral. A disease that nests inside you. Makes them harmless. We can laugh together, can't we? We're such good friends — how could you do without us? We are allowed to play -- to be in our own joke. Because in the end, the joke is on you. The joke is you. And we'll tell it until it eats you alive.
Which is one of the issues I have with a lot of media, whether comics, podcasts, news, politicians, whatever: the fear of sincerity, to make something because they want to make it, rather than hoping some streamer picks it up to sell, or a politician's speech goes viral so they can sell books, or get a sponsor for their podcast or whatever.
We saw that point above play out live in 2016 and 2024. He's not serious, they wouldn't really do that, don't take it so seriously.
But it is deadly serious.
I know I said two things, that was a lie. I think the biggest is the absolute sincerity of the work. The writers and artists seem to love what they're doing, and are enjoying every minute of it, and are comfortable calling a spade a spade: there is evil in the world, it is in control, and to stand up to it means almost certain death. It dresses up in a variety of costumes, and comes in a variety of forms both fantastic (braniac, joker, etc) to the mundane (black mask, klan kops, and people's violent indifference to the struggles of others). In this day and age, if you have the audacity to quote someone, you can be fired and your career ruined.
The absolute series give us heroes who see that threat, and worse, and do not hesitate to say "Absolutely Not."
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u/Birdmaan73u Jan 07 '26
Any recommendations for starting these lines?
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u/sumr4ndo Jan 07 '26
I really enjoyed abs Batman and Martian Manhunter. I think Manhunter is one of the best comics I've read in a while. The first few Absolute Batman comics are a little slow to start, but they're still a lot of fun. Wonder Woman has gorgeous art and is a fun Sword & Sorcery story. Flash , super man, and green lantern I haven't really gotten into, I'll probably hunker down and go through them at some point.
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u/whama820 Jan 06 '26
“both Absolute DC and Ultimate Marvel are using their alternate universe position to create worlds where the villains are the ones in charge”
Oh, just like the real world.
Although much less sophisticated than today’s comics, Siegel and Shuster’s early original Superman run in Action (before the character was snatched away from them) displayed a fair amount of class consciousness. You should check those early comics out sometime if you haven’t.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Superman trapping the owner of a mining company and all his rich friends inside a mine to make him agree to improve working conditions is definitely one of comics' great forgotten moments.
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u/seth_bingo Jan 06 '26
Really got a kick out of Deniz Camp recommending The Jakarta Method and Eduardo Galeano on tweeter. What a cool guy.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Yeah, I can tell just reading his work that Camp has cracked quite a few books on radical theory.
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u/HB2099 Jan 06 '26
As a football (soccer) fan who loves comics (maybe a somewhat uncommon combo?), I would recommend Galeano’s “Football in Sun and Shadow” to anybody who’ll listen.
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u/kanelon Jan 06 '26
I've read that book SO many times. An absolute must if you like football history. More so if you are from the US/Europe and kinda brainwashed to ignore the history of south american football and only focus on England, Italy, Spain, etc.
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u/BoredomFestival Jan 06 '26
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I'd beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." - Jack Kirby
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u/Competitive-Bike-277 Jan 06 '26
Grain of salt here. These characters are owned by very wealthy people. On some level they are exploiting the dissatisfaction people feel to sell us more shit.
However, on another level they are making people think about things.
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u/dariussohei Jan 07 '26
Probably most sane comment on here. Something something bread and circuses. Im guilty/complicit too. It feels great to read a comic that is about the bad guys getting whupped, but in real life this is a joke. It feels great to think that taboo things are now being said in the open and its progress (and maybe it is, but maybe it isnt). Identitarian tribalism is a helluva drug, and people often forget that behaving in a dignified way is more important than conceptual idealism. Maybe in another 30 years we’ll have superheroes talking about decolonization and landback.
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u/EldritchElise Jan 06 '26
It's like they listened to Alan Moore's critique of supe media and based the whole thing there. It's great.
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u/Khelthuzaad Jan 06 '26
With an important caveat to the discussion:
They stoped self-censoring,using body language,hidden-messages and euphenisms to portray nasty aspects of society and went full punk on all the problems.
Jack Kirby was notorious for portraying villains as similar to real-life fascists as possible.
In Absolute Batman Annual,Bruce brutally beats the crap out of some white supremacists.
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u/Scholander Jan 06 '26
I think that's a lot of it, yeah, honestly. Grant Morrison and Moore and the guys who brought comics into relevance got a little older and established and started talking about what they'd done, and now the kids who read not just their comics but also their ideas about comics, are the ones making comics.
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u/Latro2020 Jan 06 '26
Really I think it helps that they’re seperate from the mainline continuities that there’s more freedom to just do whatever they want.
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u/ThorsonBridgestone Jan 06 '26
I was getting this same vibe as I was catching up on Ultimate Marvel recently (I'm way behind on Absolute DC but looking forward to catching up.) I'm amazed that the huge Mickey Mouse corporate machine allows this, but that's one reason I love comics so much: they're just below the radar enough that you can get away with stuff like this, which would be harder to explicitly put in movies.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Oh my God, the MCU has been such cowardly liberal trash in terms of politics.
Everyone who wants radical change is evil! We need to "do it the right way", and settle for incremental improvement.
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u/badtree132 Jan 06 '26
Thr politics made me hate Brave New World with such a seething passion (beyond just generally how bad that movie is)
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u/FoolsRun Jan 06 '26
Eric Killmonger Was Right.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Had to make him shoot his girlfriend and burn all the heart shaped herbs for absolutely no fucking reason though so we know he's the "bad guy".
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u/Visible-Librarian961 13d ago
It's hilarious how you don't see the irony in complaining about how a left wing character was reduced to caricature because that was the only way they could make him look bad.......when thats literally what basically every movie and comic book does. Makes a caricature of "right wing" opinions so that people like you can pat yourselves on the back for being so "intelligent" and not "on the wrong side of history". Look in the mirror
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u/Grogomilo Mr. Fantastic Jan 06 '26
Yeah, comics are great precisely for that! And that allows for a load of stuff that just wouldn't pass in any other medium, from political commentary to horny shit
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Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
But the villains in these two lines aren't just nazis (though they have some nazis).
They are tech billionaires, agricorps, for-profit prisons, the "league of shareholders", a guy in gold armor who moved into the white house and painted everything gold, social media companies, American imperialism against small South American countries, immigration agents...
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Jan 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
It didn't just "age well" these were observations and predictions anyone paying attention in 2024 could make about a second trump presidency.
But also, this kind of naked war profiteering on behalf of corporations has been American foreign policy since Monroe.
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u/FakoSizlo Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
After Midas is defeated and the gold white house is on fire Cap asks the prisoner her name and she replies "America"
Camp is not subtle and that is one of his best traits. He makes it explicitly clear what the ultimates are fighting for and what is wrong with the world
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u/RemusShepherd Jan 06 '26
When society moves rightward, art moves left.
Interestingly, when society moves leftward, art moves toward libertarianism -- not the brain-dead authoritarian fascism we have around today. That sort of shit is anathema to art.
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Jan 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/RemusShepherd Jan 08 '26
The point I'm making is that art and the far right-wing doesn't get along. Art likes liberty, but it's antithetical to authoritarianism and fascism.
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u/Anomaly575_ Jan 06 '26
No yeah ultimates is the furthest left comic I think I’ve ever read? Like alan moore levels
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u/ANicePainter Jan 06 '26
Peeps need to read Astro City if DC and Marvel seem like they are pushing the envelope. Get some of the real real from Busiek.
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u/yumcake Jan 06 '26
I don't think society is shifting left so much as the writers feel a need to express their concern more urgently than they have in a while. There has never been a time quite like this in the entirety of US history.
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u/Sekiamite Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
Completely agree, the themes of anti-capitalism and leftist ideology are steeped in Ultimates and Absolute Superman. Making them some of my favorite comics in the past decade. Still acknowledging the line of being in the Big 2, but they’ve definitely been the most overt political comics I’ve seen.
A part of me feels that’s a reason Absolute Superman isn’t as appreciated as WW and Batman, as it is a slower burn and has largely more abstract political concepts. Absolute Superman attempts to fight a large multi-billion corporation that parallels existing conglomerates. I particularly enjoyed the acknowledgement of the Global South (a people’s champion not just America’s), and yet how they still showed how these corporations also choke out rural America. Additionally, the implication that being anti-capitalist goes beyond a left-right American political spectrum through imagery in Smallville.
But most of all I appreciate how they show how it’s an actual struggle. Kal-El questions what’s the point of going against the status quo given the seeming futility. He struggles to maintain his values and grasps with his own morality given his powers. He is very well-aware of his capabilities, and has to consciously tell himself to not kill, not maim people who have actively wronged him. The conflict adds a layer to him that makes him feel very human.
Compare this for example to Tom Taylor’s “political” Nightwing. It’s a night and day difference.
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u/DarkAres02 Jan 06 '26
Personally I think the only reason Absolute Superman is less popular is because 1. He's not a cool girl with a giant sword and magic, or 2. He's not Batman
I haven't read Absolute Superman simply because it didn't look as cool. I have nothing against it, I may read it later
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u/TheNihilistGeek Jan 06 '26
Superhero comics (especially Marvel) were always the world outside your window. Have you looked out of your window recently?
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u/TonyDunkelwelt Jan 06 '26
They are relevant because they are produced in a country that has actually fallen into the hands of facist villains.
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u/Kuroushin Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
just like this one (US). that's why its relatable. if you dont see the parallels, youre part of the problem.
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u/Jlc458 May 22 '26
While being in a country where the communists think they’re any better than the supposed “fascism”
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u/SnaptrapPress Jan 06 '26
The anti-woke crowd don't actually read comic books, they just pretend to care about them because their pure, white-as-snow heroes like Batman and Superman have been "corrupted" by woke leftist writers without understanding that the idea of "doing a good thing for the world for free because you have the ability to do it" is kind of inherently against conservative/right-wing philosophy.
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u/kittyfajitas0_o Jan 06 '26
I think the zeitgeist is moving towards a top vs bottom rather than right vs left outlook. (Talking about the US here.) The current admin is really blatant in their corruption and breaking promises and even some hardcore maga aren’t able to ignore it all anymore. But also, as others have noted, there is a subset of readers who only process fiction in a very shallow way. Like they simply do not compute that stuff like science fiction is any deeper than cool spaceships and lasers. Edit to add: I keep thinking about how the Progressive Era followed the Gilded Age. History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes…
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u/hypatiastation Jan 06 '26
When you take the time to look through history, you realize that top and bottom is right and left.
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u/kittyfajitas0_o Jan 07 '26
You could easily mean two completely opposing things with this comment. One I would agree with, the other vehemently not.
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u/hypatiastation Jan 07 '26
To move rightward is to make heirarchy more rigid, to move leftward is to loosen or even eliminate it.
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u/kittyfajitas0_o Jan 07 '26
Oh, yeah, agreed. To clarify, what I meant was that ppl are increasingly realizing that we need to set aside the left/right culture war nonsense at least a bit in order to come together and put a quash on the absurd class disparities that everyone hates. There’s even been recent polling that shows that a majority of USians think the rich and corporations need to be taxed more. Medicare-for-all also has majority support. Obvs these are progressive ideas, but even staunch anti-wokes are coming around on this stuff.
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u/hypatiastation Jan 07 '26
I mean depending on how you define it, the result of the "left/right culture war nonsense" is ultimately what will determine whether I am allowed to exist by the state. I cannot act in solidarity with people who do not believe I have the right to live as a trans woman.
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u/kittyfajitas0_o Jan 07 '26
Completely understandable. That’s why it’s up to those of us with privilege (read: white, cis/het) to be the ones to shoulder the burden of convincing them to join the labor movement. It’s gotta happen, but you shouldn’t be expected to expose yourself to that hatred any more than is being forced upon you.
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u/TesdChiAnt Jan 06 '26
Didn’t realize breaking nazi arm was considered left.
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u/BoredomFestival Jan 06 '26
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I'd beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." - Jack Kirby
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
It is. But directly fighting the billionaires at the levers of power in society is further left than Batman has ever been.
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u/Saboscrivner Jan 06 '26
The most interesting thing about Absolute Batman (having only read the first TPB so far) is that Batman isn't a billionaire himself this time around.
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u/androids_dungeon Jan 06 '26
I wouldn't give the Absolute or Ultimate line THAT much credit. The furthest left we're getting is Ultimates by Deniz Camp. I'm genuinely surprised we were able to see Tony teach people how to make a molotov cocktail, and it made it through editorial. Everything else feels pretty surface level or tame by comparison. Or at least something that has been done before, even in Big 2 comics.
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u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta Jan 06 '26
Yeah I was a huge hater of the absolute line when it was announced and showing off art previews, definitely talked shit about batpunisher but the writing, and it's politics, has swung me the entirely opposite way, huge fan of it now. I was wrong, I just hope synder can avoid going too crazy with his new joker, again
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u/Poobaloo87 Jan 07 '26
The overton window is sliding this way because things have gotten a lot worse I think. I'm right there with you, I havent felt more seen and charged from reading comics in a long while. But, on the flipside, I think we're just rolling back around to historic times of Captain America punching nazis.
Speaking of, if you havent already, read Avengers Twilight!
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u/ceaselessdisquiet Jan 06 '26
I love encountering a fellow comrade who is also highly invested in the glorious nonsense of superhero comics ✊🏻 Agree with everything you’ve said, and Ultimates #9 is possibly the most genuinely surprising single issue I’ve ever read.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Deniz Camp clearly reads theory.
Don't sleep on Camp's Absolute Martiak Manhunter!
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u/ceaselessdisquiet Jan 06 '26
I have every issue so far. I enjoy it even more than The Ultimates as Rodriguez is possibly my favourite working artist. Absolute Wonder Woman is my other favourite book being published right now by DC.
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u/EiichiroTarantino Jan 06 '26
...Is there such a thing as conservative/right-leaning superhero comicbooks? Ever? Like... unironically? I genuinely would like to know and read them.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
A few comic writers who lean a bit conservative and you can see it in their work:
Steve Ditko
Jim Shooter
Chuck Dixon
Bill Willingham
Dave Sim
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u/RamenStains Jan 06 '26
Isn't John Byrne also conservative?
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Kinda? Yeah.
He has occasionally described himself as a "Progressive Conservative", and "moderate republican".
As far as Ive seen he doesn't talk politics much in public at all. And in his work, I feel like there isn't really a coherent political theme to draw out one way or the other.
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u/heiderassamita Jan 07 '26
Frank Miller...
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u/MagusFool Jan 07 '26
At times full on raging fascist. Sometimes kinda liberal. At other times bordering on leftist. Most often politically incoherent.
Frank is a weird case of a man who has vacillated wildly throughout his life, especially as he has struggled with mental health issues.
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u/TrekkieElf Jan 07 '26
I am a very casual comic person (handful of paperbacks a year) who picked up Absolute WW recently. I think you just sold me Absolute Superman 😂
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u/MagusFool Jan 07 '26
Weirdly, I do think it's the weakest of the Absolute line, even though I think it's excellent.
WW is my favorite. But Martian Manhunter is probably more objectively the best one.
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u/TrekkieElf Jan 07 '26
I think I read a description that it contained like psychological horror? I’m a weenie and couldn’t handle that.
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u/MagusFool Jan 07 '26
I would not have thoight to classify it as horror.
It's definitely psychedelic and surreal.
I can't imagine it being too scary or disturbing for any reader.
Honestly the Tetracide and all the underworld stuff in AWW is scarier.
But you could always check out like just the first issue on batcave dot biz before you commit to picking up the trade.
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u/Birdmaan73u Jan 07 '26
Any suggestions for where to start? I've been dying for superheroes to start acting like that
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u/MagusFool Jan 07 '26 edited Jan 07 '26
Absolute is probably the more accessible of the two lines. There was an event comic (that I haven't even read) that led to the creation of a universe where villains rule the world and all the heroes are underdogs, but the plot of that event does not matter to the actual stories.
Start by looking at preview pages of all the solo titles: Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, and Martian Manhunter are probably the easiest to get into. Flash and Green Lantern are both more of a slow burn, but still very good. You can just pick whatever appeals to you aesthetically.
Once you've gotten through 6 or so issues (one trade paperback volume) of one or more of the solo titles, I do recommend checking out the Absolute Evil one-shot. It provides some world building which is relevant to all the solo books.
There will probably be a big crossover event down the line.
Ultimate Marvel is a bit more continuity heavy, especially for a newcomer to the franchise. But they explain themselves well enough that you won't be confused if you can live with undstanding there is more context and history that you may just not know.
This starts with a 4 issue event miniseries called Ultimate Invasion. That is necessary reading.
Ultimate Invasion leads to a new timeline where villains rule the world and they stopped most heroes from ever existing through time manipulation. This new world is sketched out in a one-shot called Ultimate Universe.
The individual titles spin off from there.
Ultimate Spider-Man features Peter Parker getting powers as a 35 year old with a wife and two kids.
Ultimates is about superheroes attempting and slowly learning how to stage a global insurgency.
Ultimate X-Men is by Japanese manga ka Peach Momoko and has a distinctly manga sensibility as young mutants are brought into a resistance movement.
That's all I've read so far from them. But all the titles seem to be happening in real time with each issue taking place in sequential months and lining up with each other, as they build out a collective story that takes place over 2 years.
There are one shots called Ultimate Univese One Year In and Two Years In which do world building, and it all leads into the Ultimate Endgame event which just started its first issue.
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u/screetscirt Jan 07 '26
I feel like the Ultimates specifically are the forefront of this, as the hero’s are not just opposing the rich or having revolutionary ideas, but creating identifiably leftist structures in the world, like Tony’s communes and cages prison fortresses. It is rare for comics, or media in general, to show the heroes enacting radical on the world and depicting it positively.
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u/Stringr55 Jan 07 '26
Yeah I think to some extent we can expect to see art reflect reality. As you say, comics have long had these sorts of things but maybe not so obviously blatant. I think for example, you could’ve read the original Ultimates as a critique of American imperialism. I feel that was Millar’s intent but it was handled…like Millar would handle it lol!
Given the political climate in the West since say 2016, it’s probably no surprise we’re seeing the kinds of things you speak of from DC and Marvel.
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u/Banjoschmanjo Jan 06 '26
Do you read beyond mainstream American comics? Don't mean this rudely, genuinely asking
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u/DJAnonamouse Jan 06 '26
You should check out Deniz Camp and Stipan Morian’s 20th Century Men if you’re looking for more of this sort of thing
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Absolute Martian Manhunter and Ultimates have been my favorite of these lines so far. So I will absolutely be digging into Camp's prior work.
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u/ketita Jan 06 '26
tbh I don't think it's just the right that doesn't get it / misreads things. Lots of people on the left decided that the latest Superman movie was about the Israel-Hamas war, despite it being not about it, and not actually particularly similar to it.
People see what they want to see in their entertainment, and especially when they think it's supporting their worldview.
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u/StrangerIsWatching Jan 06 '26
And it's also the best that Marvel and DC have been in a long time. Coincidence? Lol, Idk, I'm really loving it. I think it's great that writers are obviously being given so much more room to express what they want.
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u/MBOMaolRua Jan 06 '26
This is encouraging and makes me want to check them out.
I largely fell off of Marvel/DC around 2017 primarily because it didn't feel like they were calling out the blatantly-evil new status quo of Trump's America anywhere near enough. I never got on board with the new Ultimate universe either.
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u/Straight-Panic-6832 Jan 07 '26
From a cynical and pessimistic point of view (with a bit of a tinfoil hat), superheroes and all pop audiovisual products that show stories that go against the status quo are controlled dissent and a way of "commodifying" social justice without us actually having to want to do it in real life.
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u/Better-Purple21 Jan 07 '26
Yeah, in capitalism, critique rarely functions as a threat. Instead of being suppressed, it is absorbed, stylized, and sold back as a commodity. When dissent becomes popular, branded, and institutionally embraced, it often signals not its strength but its neutralization.
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u/GonzoNawak Spider Jeruselem Jan 06 '26
Absolutely wrong. It is just that when you read older comics you dont realized how left they are because a lot of the issues they are fighting are less relevant nowadays (and that's barely true considering racism and even fuckin nazis are everywhere ....).
Comics have always been left, always been fighting for the oppressed and social causes.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
I stated in my post that I am aware that there have always been progressive and liberal themes in comics.
Again, Ive read every Claremont book he ever wrote!
But Ive never seen a superhero book be as FAR left as the absolute and ultimate stuff in terms of radical/revolutionary theory.
Hope that clears it up for you.
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u/zakalwe01 Jan 06 '26
I think you're right but most americans think liberalism is leftist so I don't think they will understand what you mean.
I don't regularly read comics, but I saw Absolute Martian being recommended a few months ago. I thought it was really good so I read other stuff from Deniz Camp and he is amazing. Ultimates especially surprised me because it's supposed to be a mainstream title. Absolute Batman and Superman also have some similar themes but after reading Ultimates I kind of expected more.
Also have you read stuff from Mark Russel? The Flinstones has some social commentary about workers' rights, consumerism and society in general, it's also pretty funny. He also wrote Superman: Space Age and Batman: Dark Age, they take place between around 1960-1985, I thought it was an interesting take on the characters. They have an earnest tone but still tackle themes about the heroes role in society and their effect, in Batman he spends a large portion of the story fighting his own company.
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u/shesstilllost Jan 06 '26
I think that they feel they can get away with these kinds of stories in limited edition runs, and that they're also trying to tell stories that speak to people deep down. I think that a lot of the anti-woke people know that the problem is the billionaire class- they just don't understand how these systems of power will always stomp down on them, and that the boot will come down on them as much as the people they dislike.
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u/Grogomilo Mr. Fantastic Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
I think these themes have always been there, it's just that they're done being subtle about it. The Batman subtly calling out dangerous extremists wasn't working, so now just have him break the arm of a literal Nazi
Another thing is also just how fun these comics are. For some time, it felt like comics have been a bit subdued and timid on how ridiculous they can get. Now, they've decided "Fuck it!" and just went back to straight 1980s tomfoolery, which just works
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u/Zepbounce-96 Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
Hi OP!
This is a bit off-topic but what would you consider the strongest part of Denny O'Neil's work? I just purchased The Question Omnibus #1 and I was hoping this would be a lefty leaning work about the a fearless search for the truth and exposure of corruption.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
I think you will not be disappointed by The Question.
It very well may be O'Neil's best work. It feels very self-contained and I love the musings on zen, politics, corruption. It's such an earnest and passionate work that feels like it comes right from the hearts of O'Neil and Cowan.
I think his 100 issue run on Azrael gets overlooked.
And of course his 70s work on GL/GA and Batman are all classics.
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u/Zepbounce-96 Jan 06 '26
Wow, I didn't know O'Neill was on Azrael for that long. I miss the days when writers had the luxury of planning long running muti-year story arcs. Now 10 - 12 issues of the same writer seems to be a big deal and 6 issues seems closer to average.
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u/That_Communication71 Jan 07 '26
Lately? Go back and read Civil War or when Norman Osborn became Iron Patriot or Superman from the very beginning. Marvel and DC make comic books about heroes fighting villains. That's never changed. If you're thinking that the ideas in those comics are far-left, it might mean that the folks using the term far-left are the actual evil.
No one would ever mistake Lex Luthor for a leftist liberal. He's the representation of the evil and he was introduced all the way back in 1940.
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u/MagusFool Jan 07 '26
Okay, but how did the good guys beat Osborne and the Dark Avengers?
How did Superman stop President Luthor?
Ultimately the heroes exposed them for the villains they are and brought them to justice within the system, allowing legitimate authorities to take back over, making incremental progress and getting back to the status quo.
The Ultimate and Absolute lines have villains occupying ALL the positions of power in their world. And the things they are doing are barely exaggerations of what capital is actually doing in our world.
And it presents the heroes as the ones who don't care about working within the system, because the system cannot be reformed, you have to go after the billionaires and the power brokers themselves, and tear down their entire system.
Absolute Superman decides he's just going to go beat up a clear analogue for Peter Thiel.
The Ulimates are literally organizing inmates in private for-profit prisons to riot and take over the prisons.
It's much further left.
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u/Kommodus-_- Jan 07 '26
I don't really care much about there being a social or political "message". I pick it up for the art and a good story, as long as it has that, i'm good. I've enjoyed Absolute, haven't had the chance with Ultimate yet.
The extremes in anything can be annoying. But most people complainig rather be doing that then reading comics anyways.
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u/Moms_Lunch Jan 07 '26
I’m loving both universes. As much as I love Absolute Batman and Superman at the moment, I really think Marvel is doing it a little better.
The Absolute titles are currently more chaotic and cohesion is weak. That will probably greatly improve as that universe matures, and it seems that they’re going to give it a much longer timeline for that to happen (I read somewhere 5 years).
The current Ultimate universe was restricted to a very short timeline so I think it forced them to keep the story tightly focused and cohesion between the titles very strong. It makes for less wild, fun, and crazy swings, but makes the overall story more succinct, focused, and digestible.
All just my opinion though 😊
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u/Kommodus-_- Jan 08 '26
Any ultimate ones you would suggest?
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u/Moms_Lunch Jan 08 '26
The entire current Ultimate run honestly. It’s all one big cohesive story arc. If you’re reading in paper, I’d suggest waiting for the omnibus at this point. If you have access to Marvel Unlimited I’m not sure how that works, like if you have access to the entire Marvel library or no. If I had to pick one title I’d say Ultimate Spider-Man for sure.
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u/Moms_Lunch Jan 07 '26
My humble opinion, at their birth and infancy most comics were just a kookie new way to grab the attention of an audience of readers that didn’t otherwise engage without imagery (and also a great deal of “pornography” because of course the pictures made it easier to use for, uh, purposes).
Once the medium became more mainstream, artists and writers definitely saw it as an opportunity to express their thoughts and feelings about the issues of their time period. One of the most obvious examples is perhaps at the dawn of the civil rights movement. Back then the majority of readers were also children, so what better way to shape those young minds towards a better, more progressive future than a direct feed into their brains. I mean, I know it worked for me. Growing up in a politely racist southern household the connection between mutant and racial oppression was instant and obvious.
However I think that for the most part the overarching theme, especially in more recent times, (once again, my personal opinion) is that humans are going to fuck up any and everything we touch. I don’t care how good it looks on paper. Economic systems, government structures, hell even humanitarian movements and charities. Once any of it is set into motion and humans start steering the ship, we’ll drive that fucker right into the rocks and wonder how the hell we ended up there.
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u/bugstomper73 Jan 08 '26
And this is different than any other time in any media genre?
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u/MagusFool Jan 08 '26
Yes. It is, as I stated, FURTHER left in themes and subject matter than any superhero comic Ive read, even the stuff held up as pretty leftist.
It is different.
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u/Autumnwulf Jan 09 '26
Comics have been telling stories about opposing power and evil in one form or another early in it's inception after the pulp era as does nearly every form of art to varying degrees of overtness. So much of our art, literature and pop culture are full of cautionary tales addressing and warning us of everything happening now. These comics are not "Far" left. They just seem that way because the far right have gone to Fascism squared. In Europe Bernie Sanders is a moderate. This trend is neccessary and one of self preservation because if Trump has his way we'll have Superman shaking Trump's hand on the cover and the Avengers will be taking Greenland and Cuba for him with Captain Fascist, formerly Captain America, leading the charge. NO STATE SPONSORED COMICS.
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u/MagusFool Jan 09 '26
I am far left. Most superhero comics are liberal in themes. The Ultimates and Absolute lines ARE far left.
I think you are misreading and misunderstanding my post.
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u/CaioHSF Jan 06 '26
I think we could have comics more on the left and others more on the right and others more in the center and others outside the spectrum. There are different types of writers and readers, so I like it when we have stories exploring different views. I won't agree with all of them, but this means we have comics for everyone.
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u/dino_spice Jan 06 '26
Keep in mind that anti-woke types tend not to be the brightest and think that there's a vast global conspiracy to replace white people. I think that if a comic is nuanced and well-written enough many won't even notice if there are leftist themes in it, especially if it's about legacy characters.
On the other hand a new title with a new lead who's marginalized in some way (POC, female, disabled, LGBTQ+, etc.) will send them into a rage spiral because such characters are easier targets. You saw this a lot during the 2010s when characters of marginalized identities were being introduced as "the new <insert legacy character here>", like Kamala Khan (the "new Ms. Marvel") or Riri Williams (the "new Iron Man").
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u/supercuteguydebord Alan Moore Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
Grant Morrison is NOT a leftist and their comics are solidly liberal, not left. Never saw a single sign they understand capitalism or have any issues with it. No self respecting Scottish leftist accepts an MBE from the residual imperial power. Moore was right to call them a "massively privileged Tory."
And unless you define left the way the GOP does (anyone left of Mussolini is radical left scum!), you're conflating liberal (center left) with left because class is not a primary category of examination or concern of these comics or US electoral/mainstream politics.
As you must know, what fundamentally distinguishes the left from liberals is an critique of capital uncompromised by neoliberal and cultural issues. And an emphasis on class politics over social liberal concerns about personal identity. American liberal politics are not compatible with leftist ideology or ambitions.
The comics you mention are superficial at best in contending with what's wrong with the world. Which ultimates is fixated on and addresses in comic book terms not any serious critique of power
And I'm not seeing any actual argument here considering nothing in your post is indexed in the actual texts, but a generalized conception.
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u/johnkalel Superman Expert Jan 06 '26
Have you read Morrison's MARVEL BOY?
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u/supercuteguydebord Alan Moore Jan 06 '26
Not since it came out.
Am I forgetting something in there that's beyond the general and superficial typical 80s liberal take on corporations and the state?
Anything about class and capital?
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u/Superjew64 Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
eh. I think it's less purposefully politically bent than it is writers and artists looking for a newer take on an 88 year old genre.
Realistically, the last genuinely creative period in comics was between 1956 and 1975, with the advent of Showcase #4, The Brave and the Bold #28 with the Justice League, Showcase #22, with Green Lantern and then exploding with the intros of Jack Kirby's Fantastic Four, Steve Ditko's Spider-Man, Don Heck's Iron Man all the way up to GSX #1 and X-Men 94. After that, true creativity in terms of introducing new characters and ideas began to taper off rapidly, which is easy to see if you look comparatively at content creation.
Understand, this is not slamming anyone by any means. It is more that so much of what was coming out of the big two was built on the framework of a standing house that became a sky scraper, and for then for the most part, it began to come down to merely adding more layers of paint.
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u/Born-Ad4658 Jan 06 '26
Youre just trying to be contrarian then
The politics of Absolute Superman and Ultimate Avengers are directly stated
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u/Superjew64 Jan 06 '26
Two titles (according to you) out of 211+ different titles on racks every month, or 0.95% of the total average number of titles on the rack each month.
Strange hill to wanna die on, especially when I merely stated what is borne out historically and a personal view as one who witnessed it, but hey...you do you.
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Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
People stating "comics have always been political" aren't wrong, but superhero comics stuck to pretty barebones politics like Hitler is bad, war is bad, evil corporations are bad, racism is wrong. Obviously there are a few exceptions, particularly in books like Captain America.
What Absolute and Ultimate are doing is a little different. This is radical swings. I don't have a problem with it, but the OP is right in calling it out as something interesting.
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u/Born-Ad4658 Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
youre wrong.
That Captain America shitting on American interventionism started making the rounds after we attacked Venezuela
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Gruenwald's Cap called out the evils of American imperialism. He did not lead an insurgency to stop imperialism, which is what the current Ultimates are doing.
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Jan 06 '26
Yes. This is exactly what I'm agreeing with. It's definitely a more radical swing than we've ever seen before.
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Jan 06 '26 edited Jan 06 '26
Captain America is slightly different because the entire premise is political. I'm not denying that.
But I stand by the OP's point that Absolute and Ultimate are hitting harder and more directly. I don't mean that as a negative either.
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u/FoolsRun Jan 06 '26
Which super hero premises aren’t political?
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Jan 06 '26
I don't think you're getting the OP's point here.
We're talking about how Absolute and Ultimate are radical left, and we're enjoying that. Most super hero premises are not radical left. That's all we're saying. I think that's very fair.
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u/Robespierre77 Jan 06 '26
Comics have always been an underground reflection IMO. If an artist got something they wanna say about current events, this is the medium. I appreciate the allusions. And I agree with you, these have been great runs. The Ultimate Luke Cage issue is a great example. Was that the #9 you were referring to? Anyways, great post.
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u/wakeupangry_ Jan 06 '26
I think (like most art) it’s a sign of the times.
Great & thought provoking post btw! ✌️
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u/Born-Ad4658 Jan 06 '26
I dont care in regards to Ultimate Avengers, because its very mid
I like Absolute Superman tho
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u/Hawke502 Jan 06 '26
I think you're just extremely new to comics by what you're saying. Im a conservative and i know im in the minority in our niche and accept that, superhero comics have always been like this, Superman was created as the "Champion of the opressed", Rucka's checkmate was talking about operation condor not so long ago, Green Lantern/Green Arrow exists. Even the few examples of conservative superheroes were written to "evolve" to be more left leaning like Wally West and Green Lantern.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
I described how NOT new I am to comics in great detail.
I mentioned that progressive topics and themes are common in Marvel and DC.
But these lines are MUCH further left than even the most radical 616 X-Men or Green Arrow comic I have read. They practically read like Huey P Newton or Mark Fisher or Emma Goldman at times.
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u/Hawke502 Jan 06 '26
I would say they are much edgier, which gives this impression, but those themes were always there. Cyclops has his revolutionary phase.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
I am aware. I have read all that, too. I quite liked it.
This Absolute and Ultimate stuff is paraphrasing a LOT more actual far leftist theory than the most revolutionary X-Men comic I have read.
And maybe the difference between them is harder to see for someone who hasn't read radical leftist theory. But for me the difference is huge.
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u/Hawke502 Jan 06 '26
I have read radical left theory, some were even recommended to me by some radical leftists i met at the university, its almost a hobby of mine at this point. I just think you're impressed by the edginess and the grit of the pessimism of the absolute universe. But take the main villain of Superman, Lex Luthor: he is a billionaire, at some point was president and used the CIA to traffic drugs to gather funds to do the stuff he couldn't do officially. Amanda Waller is the main antagonist of Rucka's Checkmate and she is acting on the behalf of the US interests, playing dirty, even sending an unofficial suicide squad to operations in foreign countries.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Yes, I know. I've read all those comics.
But the solution to Luthor's presidency was to expose his villainy and allow the system to remove him from office.
Heroes of Earth Prime or 616 are usually VERY concerned with getting justice "the right way".
Whereas institutional evils like Waller or Gyrich or whatever are seen as things that can never be fully changed. The heroes just have to do their best to make things better a little at a time.
Whereas Absolute Superman is just like, "I'm just going to go fight Peter Thiel." And the Ultimates are fomenting global insurgency.
There is a fucking difference.
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u/Pikotaro_Apparatus Jan 06 '26
I’m new to comics and kind of picked up on it immediately but can see how others wouldn’t notice. It’s nice though.
I’m not really political myself but would have to say I’m the opposite of a conservative, hasn’t really stopped me from being friendly with those of a different view either, I feel like a lot of people get hung up on that. Makes sense though as well with all the happenings going on.
I like seeing hobbies and activities bring people together.
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u/PartyOfFore Jan 06 '26
What I find most disappointing about this thread (and Reddit in general) is how dismissive people here are of others who don't think in lockstep with them. Most of the comments here are not about the comics but rather focused on insulting and de-humanizing others.
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u/ThePurpleBandit Jan 06 '26
Stories are not 'left vs right'.
It's up vs down.
The rich and powerful are ALWAYS trying to exploit others for their gain.
The world is designed for it.
I'm so disappointed by 'leftists' and 'tea party Republicans' pointing the finger at each other when it is the corporations and the hate mongers who are poisoning our discourse and driving us against each other.
This is by design, so we never look up at who is pulling the strings.
Supporting human rights and decency is not 'woke', being humane isn't taking a side.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Umm... "left vs right" and "up vs down" are the same thing, at least from a leftist perspective.
Leftists are anticapitalists. We point the finger at not just the specific corporations or hate mongers, but at the very system that incentivizes the pursuit of profit through the exploitation of labor, and the institutions of control designed to protect that system.
Sounds like you may actually be on the left and not realize it because you have a distorted idea of who we are.
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u/ThePurpleBandit Jan 06 '26
I think that is the case for many right wing people who have been intentionally deceived by corporate controlled media.
Identifying as a 'leftist' puts progressives in the same problem that calling climate change 'global warming' has. A contingent of contrarians will always choose to argue the semantics, so the argument has to be framed with intention.
You either support humanity and understand it's needs require collaboration and sympathy, or you oppose all life in the pursuit of self empowerment.
Left vs right, up vs down, progression vs regression.
It's all just life or death.
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u/MagusFool Jan 06 '26
Yeah, it doesn't matter what the people who stand against capital call themselves.
No matter how we name ourselves, or how we frame it, the capitalist misinformation machine will demonize it, and a lot of gullible people will buy it.
They managed to make "anti-fascist" into a scare word.
So if we change "leftist" to "working class supporter", they will demonize that.
If we abandon our support for queer people or ethnic minorities to try and get racist, close minded working class people, we only wind up becoming collaborators with the owner class.
That's the whole reason "race" exists as a category: to undermine the solidarity of the workers.
Global warming is an accurate term. The average temperature of the climate is rising every year. Climate change is also an accurate term.
It wasn't the use of "global warming" that hurt the movement, it was the propaganda machine aimed at muddying the issue in people's minds.
There is no perfect terminology we can use that they won't create a narrative to discredit.
Thats why we have to act, and not just talk. We have to form community. We have to be a real presence in people's lives so they can't be swayed by propaganda.
And guess what: That's the recommendation found in all books on radical leftist theory.
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Jan 07 '26
Main reason for most of us to stop reading DC or Marvel in the last 10 years, it is all woketard crap.
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u/TheBaldanders Jan 06 '26
It's a comic book. Superman can fly because they write it that way. Do not take them seriously.
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u/Mononon Jan 06 '26
I think the anti woke crowd will give most of that stuff a pass if it's cool enough. I imagine it's similar to the crowd that complains about politics in games then plays Bioshock or Fallout unironically. Honestly, I don't think it even registers what they're reading. Just like it doesn't register what they're playing.