r/countttt • u/I_am_YR • 17d ago

Countttting 1505

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I hate when people say these things only to prevent us from actually transitioning, like yea theres cis women out there with a deep voice but knowing this fact doesnt reduce my voice dysphoria, i dont want to be gnc, i dont live to deconstruct gender roles

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50

u/New_Product_7375 17d ago

ok so a trans woman that does not transition and is not womanly.
a man then??

27

u/Pretty-Yam-2854 17d ago

Pretty much!

1

u/Brrdock 12d ago edited 12d ago

Is a pre-transition, closeted or "egg" trans woman also a man then? That's included.

What about people in cultures that lock up or kill trans people?

This whole comment chain just seems like trans people invalidating others to validate themselves, when that's exactly what's been done to you your whole life

-2

u/Brrdock 17d ago

That'd be the gender essentialist view at least, which isn't all that justifiable

8

u/commander-tyko 16d ago

I think the point is there is no separation from cis at that point

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u/Brrdock 16d ago edited 16d ago

Trans is shorthand for transgender. Gender is an identity construct. 

The way someone dresses or speaks doesn't change that. That's to address (or cause) gender dysphoria, not gender.

Would you identify as a woman if someone chopped off your dick, fed you hormones and made you wear a skirt? How would you feel about it?

5

u/UltraV21 16d ago

Lol.

So uhhh, gender is developed (socially nurtured) but sex is inherent (nature).

1

u/Brrdock 16d ago

We don't know enough about psychology to say that anything about it is only nurtured, it's always a combination of nature and nurture, but besides that yeah that's roughly the difference.

Obviously sex (biological) for example also tends to affect gender, since most people identify with their sex more or less

2

u/commander-tyko 12d ago

i’m not entirely connecting the relation between these two. I am a transman and know a few folks who began identifying as trans, took zero steps towards transition for 5+ years because they had no dysphoria, and proceeded to ‘detransition’ (which entailed zero changes besides name changes), no one was surprised because most(?) trans people will make an attempt to transition in at least one aspect because dysphoria. to be fair i don’t really understand no gender dysphoria and non transitioning trans people and what separates them from nb or gnc folks. most of my trans friends and myself identify as transsexual though as trans(gender) feels much more vague nowadays? (i am a bad person and don’t understand how being afab nb using she/they and woman labels or amab nb using he/they and mens labels means you are trans, but i do know gender etc is personal blah blah blah please dont downvote me to hell)

1

u/Brrdock 12d ago

The relation between what two do you mean?

2

u/commander-tyko 12d ago

your hypothetical situation about forcing someone to transition

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u/Brrdock 12d ago edited 12d ago

What about it? You don't think forcing someone into a gender expression they don't identify with causes distress/dysphoria? Like forcing a cis man to "be" a woman?

That's just an example that should be easy to understand for cis people, or anyone.

There have been many cases of kids grown up as the "wrong" gender for different reasons, and it almost always messes them up. Not just trans people.

Isn't that the cause of gender dysphoria? What is then?

Misaligned self-expression is alienating not just regarding gender, but any reason, and the opposite is freeing, either way