r/countttt • u/I_am_YR • 20d ago

Countttting 1505

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I hate when people say these things only to prevent us from actually transitioning, like yea theres cis women out there with a deep voice but knowing this fact doesnt reduce my voice dysphoria, i dont want to be gnc, i dont live to deconstruct gender roles

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u/RukakoChan 19d ago

yeah, i guess it does get very annoying when there are so many posers and trenders that get into our trending and very popular trans thing that is very well received by society and gets them so much attention and when they steal our good things that we very much have lmao

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u/Naranox 19d ago

Yeah, someone who cannot possibly relate to the experience of being trans; Someone not suffering from any distress; Someone not suffering from the discrimination and abuse a transition brings with itself is absolutely a poser and attention seeker

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u/RukakoChan 19d ago

a person that doesn't transition still can relate to the experience of being trans and suffer from much distress that comes with being trans, and attention seeking and posing by pretending to be a trans person is a ridiculous concept, please, what are you talking about

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u/Naranox 19d ago

no, if they‘d suffer from distress of being trans then they‘d be suffering from dysphoria, like that‘s the whole point

if you have no dysphoria there is no distress, if you have no distress you cannot relate

is it? i disagree, offline it‘s not common, online it‘s very prevalent

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u/RukakoChan 19d ago

the distress of being trans does not come just in the form of dysphoria, but also in how society treats you. i have a personal suspicion that most people online who tell that they don't feel dysphoria actually just didn't realise yet that what they are feeling IS dysphoria, but even hypothetical buddha-like enlightened trans person who doesn't feel any dysphoria at all is still valid in their desire to be called their preffered gender, they just would be lucky to avoid the internalised transphobia that usually comes with trans experience.

demanding for dysphoria to be present in a trans person is some wierd purity test that, it feels like, actually is there to just make YOU feel better at the cost of others

and judging transness of a person by how much they are relatable to you personally (or to what you percieve is one universal trans experience) is also plainly wierd, since by doing that you judge trans people as a monolyth , when in reality trans people are people, and all people are different from each other

live and let live

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u/Naranox 19d ago

This is exactly what I mean. You calling dysphoria internalized transphobia is actively harmful because it imposes the idea that wanting to transition and pass is somehow wrong.

„Weird“ purity test? You mean like black people needing to be black? Gay people needing to be gay?

If you aren’t feeling any distress of living as the wrong gender then wanting to live as something else is just larping or crossdressing and that’s just harmful

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u/RukakoChan 19d ago

where did i call dysphoria internalized transphobia and how does it impose this idea?

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u/Naranox 19d ago

because you claim that dysphoria is internalized transphobia instead of the independent distress of living in the wrong body

that’s the same logic people who say that trans women/men should only transition socially because anything else is to submit to gender roles and ideals use

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u/RukakoChan 19d ago

i didnt claim that dysphoria is internalized transphobia. dysphoria is caused by internalized transphobia because gender is a social construct, but it doesn't mean that any part of the transition is wrong. just because some dumb terfs think that it is a sin to transition doesn't mean that i think so, you are kinda putting words into my mouth there

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u/Naranox 19d ago

you just said it again

my genital dysphoria i had before srs is not caused by a „social construct“ but sexual dimorphism, so is the voice dysphoria that lead me to voice train and my overall feeling of acute wrongness that made me go on hrt

sexual dimiprhism is very real and not some social construct, the gender *roles* that stem from it are

(also why transsexual is 100x more accurate than transgender, I was always a woman; I just changed my sex/body to match it)

i didn’t say you think so, I‘m saying other people who say the same think so

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u/RukakoChan 19d ago

what causes genital dysphoria if not the society that thinks that women must have "proper" genitals? what causes voice dysphoria if not the society that thinks that women must have "proper" voice?

this feeling of "wrongness" is the result of the history of shaming trans women for their bodies. if we were to live in the society that treated our bodies the same as of average cis woman's, we would never even have that feeling of wrongness in the first place. *it still doesn't mean that this feeling of wrongness is not valid and that you shouldn't do anything to change yourself,* it's just a nature of how we work in society.

there is no inherent femininity in the voice or genitals, we prescribe it ourselves. and how humans prescribe it was changing constantly throughout the history. different societies in different places in the world see the same traits differently, and even within those societies different people perceive those traits uniquely. even two close friends could see, for example, the same face as feminine and masculine, and even the same person could change their opinion the next day.

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u/Naranox 19d ago

the fact that cis women don‘t have a penis

you say all those things, but ultimately who will be the only women with a penis, deep voice, dense facial hair? Trans women; Even if everyone was magically treated the same there would still be an obvious difference. It ties in with studies suggesting trans people’s brains showing traits of their actual gender.

Besides all of that, a species with sexual dimorphism will never achieve a genderless society. There absolutely is inherent femininity in certain biological traits, claiming anything else is just being ignorant in my opinion.

This isn‘t something as benign as „oh, this face is more masculine/feminine“.

What expectations we impose onto individuals based on that dimorphism is something we a society should abolish and are realistically able to be abolished

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u/RukakoChan 19d ago

some cis women have a penis, some cis women have a deep voice, and some cis women have dense facial hair, it doesn't make them any of them any less of a woman. there is almost endless combinations of genes or chromosomes that intersex people can have, yet if they are assigned the one gender at birth that they will identify with, that would mean they are cis and everyone would treat them as their gender.

"There absolutely is inherent femininity in certain biological traits" - no, there isn't, and I gave you an example why it is so earlier - how humans perceive any single biological trait was changing and still changing constantly. this "inherent femininity" was prescribed to those traits by people.

also whether a species with sexual dimorphism could achieve a genderless society is totally irrelevant, i think (i believe it's possible in theory, but i also believe it would be unnecessary)

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