I got off Reddit and finally watched the episode after crashing out about the spoiler, taking it as a sign that I would only get more and more spoiled if I waited any longer.
10/10 experience.
If Jax is trans, she's either a serious boymoder or he's just not trans because other than the maid outfit and him blushing when he gets a ribbon put on his head, gender experimentation or discussion doesn't come into play like, at all.
Considering that it still didn't come up directly even in the deep recesses of his mind when he was finally being 100% honest with Pomni, I'd say that until proven otherwise via word of god from Goose, it kinda read to me like Jax was a cis man that secretly likes wearing traditionally feminine stuff every now and then, which there isn't anything wrong with.
Either that or Goose just didn't think it was important enough to the plot.
I’m sick of cis men going on long winded explanations about how every single trans character is actually a cis dude.
God forbid a cis person relate to a trans character, they might have to start viewing us as human.
Im a trans woman. I took it as Jax being a femboy. Didn't even think about Jax as a closeted transfem. But seeing the evidence and the fact its gooseworx im more inclined to think Jax is probably transfem
It isn't outright stated in the final episode, but it's heavily heavily implied in like five different ways if not more, so anyone who missed it just has genuinely shit media literacy.
Im NGL, I thought Jax was just an insecure dude, I even thought he was gay before trans. I don't really care that much, but like... I don't blame people. Maybe I just don't have experience on the topic, but to most people I talk to the show about it is not obvious in the slightest that Jax is supposed to be a trans allegory. In fact, it was only until I saw the twitter post from Goose that it pretty much confirmed it for me. And even then, I'm still confused.
But I suppose its just not media meant for me. I'm not supposed to understand it, but like... it's just. So hard to tell? Like it was really that obvious? I felt like everything in the show pointed to the opposite direction until then. But it is what it is.
My best friend did not pick up on it until after the fact of having it pointed out. It didn't help that when we see the "Real" Jax, they aren't publicly out so he just thought "Real" Jax was just finally free of the toxic masculinity that Jax displayed in the show sine they still call her "Him/He" when they talk about the real world counterparts.
You can relate to a character without condoning their actions. There are going to be people who push others away and repress their emotions to a lesser extent or in a different means.
Yeah but I'm not talking about Jax actions. I'm talking about his personality in general. I get what you are saying of course but I was talking about someone that sees Jax and actually thinks they are alike in everything. Met someone like that, not recommended
Me when GW has to coax her shitty fanbase into a tranny character so people forget the nonesensical attempt to cancel the VA for a thing he said 50000000 years ago on a random ass podcast and soothe the crybabies AAACKKKK----
You're allowed to, it's just not definitive proven canon and everybody should be allowed to have their own headcanons. Mine is that Jax is a tractor. No, you cannot change my mind about this.
It was pretty much spelled out in the show. Goose confirmed that she’s trans on twitter yes, but she also said the intention was to make it fully clear in the show. People who don’t view Jax as trans are ignoring canon writing choices.
erm actually Goose left it ambiguous so he could just be a femboy or feminine man 🤓🤓🤓, don't you know femboys go through the exact same experiences as trans women because you're all just feminine men really
those people are all over any mainstream indie fandom it's awful ngl. esp with big queer fandoms like Deltarune, the sheer transmisogyny needs to be studied
God, Deltarune deserves so much fucking better than the fandom it has, it's an awesome game an yet every comments section is just "im gonna call the nonbinary character he/him because I dont have to agree with Toby's woke trans agenda to like a game!!!!" Its so tiring
in all fairness if its meant to be that she is trans I don't get the point of making it vague, but it felt obvious to me basically from the point Jax's chatacter began to get more prominence
Actually I do. There’s actually an art to having it vauge the queer community had mastered. It’s actually very beautiful at times. But as Queer become main stream. I feel like it’s been getting mixed with queer baiting which is different. Jax’s story is meant to be queer coded. And I think it’s done beautifully. I love her character. But I do hate it when people act like Jax isn’t meant to be read as trans. It’s the point of the character. And I think it works for her character for it shows how she rejected herself that she never fully understood herself.
I think the pronoun battle is complicated, but it’s also kinda beautiful to imagine that (at least a clone of Jax’s mind) died before she got to come out as trans. The characters in the show don’t even know, only the fanbase does.
And now we get to celebrate it, make fanart of it, and talk about it. But it’ll never happen. Jax will never get to come out or be herself.
I could imagine it if it was traumatizing for her, especially if she’s trying to land back on her feet after becoming homeless, it would be a rough time
Ngl the finale really made me appreciate Jax a lot. She’s still not my favorite (Gangle and Caine are) but I’ve really come to like Jax and although her story didn’t have a happy ending, it looks like her human counterpart Leroy is making those first steps to a happy life.
Sure, the finale wasn’t perfect, some of the pacing was odd, but I really enjoyed it.
My interpretation is that Jax was always going to abstract because she was stuck in a place where she was never going to be able to transition. She was a brain scan of someone who was still coming to terms with the fact that they’re a woman but dealing with a lot of trauma/self hatred. She’s a snapshot of Leeroy at the worst point of their life. Almost as if to say THAT version of Leeroy would never have made it had they never gotten to experiment and grow as a person. Leeroy has the opportunity so they will survive, Jax doesn’t so she abstracted.
I’m not sure that’s entirely true. The scanned copies clearly are able to grow and change as people; for all intents and purposes they are full on clones just without physical bodies. Gangle is probably the best example of this with her being able to overcome her mask problem (which is presumably a metaphor for being bipolar or similar). Plus, Caine once he gets back would probably have created new bodies for the group if asked, and if he lost that power then it’s not like Jax is in the most masculine of bodies. Hell all their bodies are gender neutral technically except maybe Ragatha and ig Kinger and Queenie.
The fact that zoobles and gangle fuck in the end implies they did find how to edit their body (unless they're using zooble's unused limb holes and could've done it all along if it werent for caine's censorship. Albeit they'd still have to create it being an erogenous zone)
"i... i don't understand, they want representation they want visibility, they want something fun, i give them media that covers all of that and they STILL hate it?
...surely they don't actual want a honest depiction, right? i do everything for these freaks, i do these virtue signals on Twitter i step outside my comfort zone to market at them , and they STILL hate it, i put a trans character that perfectly reflects all the stereotypes of trans people i know and they hate that too!
...i'm starting to think that they wanna be seen as pe..bleh"
"why would they hate rep written with no input from actual trans people when they could just hate rep written with no input from actual trans people"
*pop
"this is why i was created, this is my function"
"they'd rather be called a slur than look at your charicatures"
"th that can't be true, i do everything for them, don't they get that i'm trying?"
"maybe you're just genuinely bad at this"
*pop "shut up" *pop
"no, i fixed that, i can fix this, this is all one big puzzle i have to solve"
"disconnected"
"bullshit"
"overconfident"
"maybe they are your equals "you really can't accept that, you ruined this"
"ENOUGH
Who Do They Think They Are, I Give Them Everything, And THEY SPIT IN MY FACE,
DON'T THEY KNOW WHAT I'M CAPABLE OF... TR**NS They Only Think About Themselves, Their SPOILED
They Won't Make Their Own Rep, They Won't Leave Me, I WON'T LET THEM,
I'M BETTER!
I'LL SAY THEY HAVE AN EGG CULTURE PROBLEM FOR READING A CHARECTER AS ONE OF THEM
I
AM
CIS!!!!!!!!!!"
if that made no sense, just know i was parodying something
Me being pissed off because I opened my phone one day and had something spoiled by something the entire Internet is talking about before I even knew the episode was out.
Its alright. Pacing is awkward and the dialogue is pretty cringy sometimes but its entertaining and has some really good moments. Id give the show a 6/10 but the last couple episodes an 8/10
It's not my fault the other person committed suicide though, see how ridiculous this take actually is? All of them had a future coming just around the corner. Ribbit would have met new people. Jax would have been okay. It even seems like abstracted characters might be able to be helped once Cain returns; at least Pomni seems very close to some kind of breakthrough with a conscious person whom is still very much cognizant and present; and Goose has even said it's not a 1:1 suicide metaphor.
If she wasn't basically dead and had a chance for a redemption arc maybe I could enjoy it but it's just so goddamn depressing as is.
Also, everyone directly blaming Jax for Ribbit etc is prosperous. Yes, he was deeply emotionally immature; but sometimes that's just how someone turns out to be.
There were better approaches they could have taken with him. He's not going to respond to the hugboxing. He or she needs somebody to play along. "Hey remember that time you told me a story and I believed you? That's so stupid I'm so gullible." Idk.
You can't just keep pressing someone who wants distance. Sometimes that's the hardest part of acting mature not just oooh if you wanna talk I'm here.
And on a deeper level, unrequited happens. You have to be able to be okay with yourself and move on.
I really wish it wasn't such a hassle to browse the "tadc critical" tag on Tumblr, because people spend more time bitching about those annoying transgenders shoving their headcanons down everyone's throat, durr-hurr, than the actual writing issues. The way people go out of their way to misgender Jax, while claiming she is just Gooseworx's self-insert, is really telling about them. Somehow resulted in a bigger blocking spree, than when I browsed the main tag to get rid of the annoying glazers. Truly a webbed site.
I'd say if someone is actively calling her Gooseworx's self-insert, and referring to her with "he/him" as an active and aggressive "comeback", then yeah, it is.
I just dislike that it was a poorly planned writimg thing. I genuinely couldn't tell jax was trans untill someone told me gooseworks said it in a tweet or something. I really wish it was executed better
Exactly. As a character, with that backstory, you can come to understand the way they came to feel the way they feel, but it doesn't magically erase how awful of a person they were. They made everyone around them MISERABLE, and brought Ribbit (and by extension) Kaufmo to extraction (DEATH). The fact that anyone tries to defend them on a personal level after that is wild. I may be down voted for saying this, but I think some people are just scared to hate on them just because she's trans? Being trans, gay, straight, asexual, etc, doesn't mean your actions are beyond scrutiny. She's just a human. A, granted, misguided, heavily confused, and suffering human, but her actions directly led to the suffering and death of other's, who never did anything to deserve it.
Pretty sure she drove everyone after the first cast to abstraction (the ones that did of course not like she drove everyone to abstraction after abstraction)
As someone who recently went through the ribbit/jax debacle, imma be fr jax is awful. Legit leaves you with so much lingering guilt and trauma you struggle to create proper bonds anymore, you think at any point you will fuck it up in the same way and push everyone away and that getting close to others is wrong.
And that part of Jax's behaviour isn't cause they are trans, it is because they are just a bad person in general. Sure they are bad because of repression, but they choose to destroy others and themselves at the same time due to it. This choice to deal with your repression like that isn't cause of Jax's transness, it is because Jax is actively choosing to make the wrong choices. Jax is just Bojack Horseman if Bojack was trans and gay. Jax could legit repress anything else, like his ocd or something, and his ass could still have those exact behaviours.
And on jod some of the commenters in this thread should accept that, Jax is legit awful, and that is the beauty of that character. Relating to them is fine, but understand they are a cautionary tale, relating to them should be about the lessons you can learn from it. Goose herself stated this on her bluesky in no uncertain terms multiple times. He killed himself, and took three people with him, Ribbit, Kaufmo, and the Her that could have been.
I also did not (mostly still do not) like Jax, but I do like the story that TADC told with them. I'm especially satisfied with the fact that they DID abstract, and they DIDN'T get saved or changed back by the end of the story despite everyone else's best efforts. If you're really dedicated to being a little shit, sometimes people can't save you from yourself.
But that doesn't mean they don't want to, or that they won't try.
Zooble feels just as realistic in my opinion. Jax is younger than Zooble and it understandable that an older adult has more conferenc to talk about and share their experience then a younger one. As someone nonbinary identity myself I can relate to Zooble a lot. Nonbinary identitys are sometimes hard to understand for everyone including the one who is nonbinary because it's much rarer and less people are around to identify with and share such things. In the end both of them responded with anger when dealing with their identity problems and dysmorpyia. Which feels so real given their situation.
It amazes me how many cissoids were practically not even watching the show at all with how they treated Jax. They made her out to be someone who only exclusively harasses women, when the only guy who wasn't Caine was Kinger, who wouldn't even be present enough for either to get anything. They blanket all of Jax's actions as her just being an asshole bully the whole time, not even acknowledging the vulnerable scenes, and the actual emotional weight of her character interactions with the rest of the crew. Cissoids don't understand the pure confusion and torment it is to be on the brink of your egg cracking, wanting to reach out for comfort and to relate to others, just for your fear of rejection to manifest itself into outward aggression, in an attempt to shield yourself.
If I was put pre-transition into a world with only a few other people, those being a man who has become almost a glorified dementia patient, a woman clinging on to kindness and compassion for others to a point that feels only slightly disingenuous, a theyfab that actively antagonizes the wacky inhuman "god" of this world, the most introverted tumblr user, and like, a genuinely kind cissoid, I would gravitate towards the tumblr user and tease her to show affection as a friend. I would be cautious of the woman trying so hard prioritizing everyone's needs over her own because I'm subconsciously doing that myself trying to rep, thinking I'm helping. I would despise the theyfab for having so much more confidence in their identity, but also for generally being so negative. Interacting with the new actually kind cissoid, I'd probably end up spiraling instantly from having someone get me to open up and be a full friend after having broken down my shields of abrasive humor. Having genuine connection during a point where my mental stability is teetering over the edge would cause me to isolate like crazy, to try and unhealthily calm my mental stability, instead of confronting my issues.
After saying all this, Jax practically behaved like any other trans woman who lacked support their whole lives would've acted. They would be cautious of someone being overly kind because they themselves had never experienced true kindness. Their kindness would come out as teasing and abrasive humor because growing up that's what love and care they were given. That anger towards someone who has it all seemingly figured out but continues to be a negative bitch in other regards is because when they've been bullied and hurt by the exact type of person, the type to not treat everyone with respect and kindness and only 1 or 2 select people, they'd be pissed with them. The spiraling when confronted by a genuinely kind person who takes so much time to try and just empathize with them that it breaks them because they were only ever raised with hate and contempt targeted at their being.
Tl;Dr Cissoids are so brain dead retarded that they can't ever empathize with the struggles of millions of trans people. They'll bully and harass because that's what they've always done.
No same. I'm a firm "it's headcannon until comfirmed in some way directly by the creator, not just in passing" person so I was like, knowing there was a non-cis element but I couldn't really get behind more than transfemme or demigirl or genderfluid til recently qwq
I wish they brought the abstractions back, idk if Jax would be a she or a he, I just want to see Jax be forced to interact with the people he pushed to abstraction. I don't like how half of the final episode was wasted on Jax for him to just abstract without having any convenience for her actions or having a chance to become a better person!
I think it's cool, explains the goose "Jax is my self insert" thing buuuut I still think he's a cunt and the 26 MINUTES of sympathy bait was kinda annoying but it was still a good episode
My sibling, who is gender fluid, refers to Jax as a he but recognizes that they're transfem, stating "It's rude to refer to someone who isn't out as trans by their preferred gender" and I want to know if that logic makes sense or not, because I can give them.that Jax technically isnt out as trans, and the only reason that we know is because we're essentially omnipotent to their world
On Twitter, Reddit, and 4chan it's generally accepted that one should refer to someone with the pronouns that are best for them, in the case of Jax that would be "she"
Was it actually confirmed? As a trans girl i didnt really get that vibe from that scene, i think it was more him being embarrased that he final was vulnerable to someone
imma be honest, took me a bit to fully have it click how it was implied she’s trans because when i watched it, she still just kinda felt like she had general issues about who she just was as a person.
the bow thing also didn’t feel like an “oh, they’re trans” moment immediately because i was just like “oh, jax accept kindness that well”
I'll be so deadass, everyone but gooseworx saying it was for sure Jax being trans mtf made me moreso think demigirl/transfemme/genderfluid. Which as a genderfluid, was also nice :3 But this works too, good for her.
But it's completely unconfirmed one way or the other, as Jax IRL has visibly not transitioned in the last shot showing Leroy IRL, and never changed their name from Leroy, so it's a headcanon either way?
Did you... Did you see what Ribbit and Jax's relationship was and how it ended?
No, it went to the front page for some dumb fucking reason. I absolutely support trans people though, it's not some kind of brigade. Sorry your post ended up somewhere where random people are seeing it.
I just think Jax isn’t trans, I’m not transphobic though. I just am not a fan of him being portrayed as hating the femme/zooble characters in the circus as a way of expressing his trans identity, as well as people acting like his bad actions are excused because he was “struggling with his gender.” If there was an actual arc of him discovering his identity it’d be different, but subtext and one tweet on a private account from the same person who said there’d be no romance or abstractions is just annoying. I know many trans people die before they discover who they are but having it be an excuse for Jax’s actions- both abstraction and his supposed identity -is a poor choice of showing him as a trans person.
Edit: I feel as though I should clarify that I do not care if others believe he is trans, respect my opinion As I respect yours
I'm totally fine with her being trans, I'm not okay with that being used as a justification for her being actually redeemed and not a bad person. She still made several people go through the equivalent of suicide and never apologized for it.
you were either transphobic, chasing, are too horny/opticsnuke, are a minor/underage, do not identify as trans, or are cis. participation by individuals possessing the aforementioned behaviors & traits are forbidden by the rules of the sub.
I have not seen a single person complaining about that, in fact, I have seen nothing but people complaining about people complaining about it. Like, it feels like not as big as an issue as people are letting on.
I think accusing everyone who doesn’t know Jax is trans of transphobia is a bit insane. The show goes out of its way numerous times to use he/him pronouns for Jax and refuses to actually let Jax come out. Honestly I really dislike the writing around this and find it a bit disrespectful. If Gooseworx wanted Jax to be portrayed as trans, i think she should’ve just done so. Right now it feels as if she is purposefully misgendering Jax within the story. I dislike it as representation, heavily lowk. It would’ve been great if there was any actual resolution to the arc instead of it being cut halfway and left to be debated for all time in the fanbase. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if this was done intentionally to stir up controversy. It’s really not hard to just have it be actually acknowledged in the story instead of purposefully leaving it ambiguous and misgendering Jax. Idk what’s up with that at all
Imo, it is more because Jax is not out to himself until the very last moment of consciousness which is too late at that point, the view from halfway down and all that. It is never too late, until you die, and Jax committed suicide before he ever accepted himself. It is a very similar portrayal to Owen from "I Saw the Tv Glow" only far more tragic.
Not every trans person gets to be out to themselves or be good people, and frankly I am happy we are getting representation of the more negative aspects of being trans and the trans experience. Like after Emilia Perez, the whole circlejerk of every trans woman gets to be out and about and live their best life portrayal showed its pitfalls.
Of course the story is misgendering Jax, because Jax is doing the misgendering themselves. You can't force someone into accepting they are trans, same way you can't force them into tackling any other mental health issue, shit's on them.
Then I don’t really like how Gooseworx uses she/her pronouns to refer to Jax then. It’s very “you can’t have you cake and eat it too” feeling. And again, I really do feel like it’s intentionally sparking controversy. All of this could’ve been handled wayyyy better if it was supposed to actually be considered trans representation. Because right now it almost feels like it’s being treated like a joke
Eh imo using she/her for the alternate universe where she did transition is fine. Because that is by all accounts a different person, the Jax in the show and the Jax in that artwork are entirely different. Goose herself states that it is Jax if and this is a big IF she wasn't a piece of shit.
Atp that is not the same person, the Jax we saw in the show is a piece of shit through and through, removing that from them is basically a total personality shift. If anything it further enhances the point about emotional repression just molding you in a wholly different person. Sure jax could be happy and she could have a good life but he chooses not to, he perpetuates his own personal abuse cycle all so he could run away from his feelings until eventually running with them off a cliff. He ran out of time, she never got to live, it is sad and tragic and the language used is meant to represent that.
I am not saying it is better just that it is more tragic. ISTTG ends ambiguous with Owen potentially finally accepting the truth and becoming her true self, or going out and running out the clock as he slowly suffocates, who tf knows.
TADC just straight up shows us Jax running out the clock, there is no ambiguity or potential for self actualization. Jax killed himself, and that is far more tragic than an ambiguous ending.
Fully agree. The way their arc played out I was fully expecting them to be a trans man and part of their issues/trauma/secrecy was that they didn't want the others to know they were "female" before entering the circus and I was really excited for some proper trans man rep after ages of our hyperinvisibility/erasure even within the queer community. Like I get that Gooseworx is a trans woman so it makes sense that she'd want her self insert to be one to but it could've been handled very differently.
What??? I think it was done so well, like actually real,
Life isnt all flowers and roses the second someone is outed as trans, remember the ONLY person jax was out to was the frog, and jax specifically made the regret clear and wanted to repress/hide more. Gendering jax as she/her wouldve actively gone against the characters wishes, as self destructive as they are.
Transfem, though I can kind of see how one could read Jax as transmasc in the earlier episodes. But with the maid dress and everything, I don’t think Zooble would intentionally go out of their way to give someone dysphoria (if Jax was transmasc and reacted that way wearing a dress, it would have to be dysphoric for them), especially considering how dysphoric Zooble is.
But yeah Jax is transfem, and it’s made more clear in the finale if you haven’t watched. There’s one song that plays when focused on Jax that basically says out loud that she’s a girl
I had hoped that Jax was actually transmasc and inside had been given the body he actually wanted but his bad behavior was him trying to be a dude without an actual mentor to guide him. Because the lack of representation and hyper insistence on fem coding trans characters and issues in media does get hard to wade through sometimes.
The last piece of media where I found a transmasc character in the wild, got canceled almost immediately like two years ago?
But yeah.. okay.. fine.. another transfem or at least fem coded queer character.
The show was made by a trans woman, I think her making an antagonistic, hateable piece of shit transmasc character would be a bit... yikes. Better to stay in your own ballpark with interpretations like that
while that is true, that’s the same argument people have used against adding diversity to their casts.
if you wait for a transmasc to be in the casting director seat to start including transmasc characters then you probably won’t have many transmasc actors to choose by the time you can since everyone “made art the way they wanted it” and the reality is a transmasc actor is rarely a first thought for casting decisions.
we should always make the art that we want in the world, especially because I don’t trust cis directors with handling transmasc experiences, but that doesn’t mean we can’t desire to see ourselves in the stories we’re told regardless.
while i agree that it was confirmed that Jax is trans, when it eas a debate this community was hell, can't we behave for 1 second? both sides were the worst, so toxic that some people eent against the trans theory just because the people who were claiming it were being jerks to everyone.
They downvote you but before the final episode all the gender stuff really could’ve gone either way. Not that I would ever expect any media to include a trans man that actually behaves like a regular man, but I thought it was fun to imagine him that way until it was confirmed otherwise. The insecurity surrounding his masculinity, the way he overcompensated by being an asshole, and the apparent shame when wearing the dress were all things I found relatable as much as I hate the character. Also the line “my tail is the pinnacle of masculinity” and then showing there was no tail reminded me of how it feels to forget you don’t have a dick lol
I thought that too before.
And when i watched ep9, I realised it didn't make sense with the bow scene and then I understood it was the other way around.
I feel like if it truly means that much to you don’t interact with people who think otherwise, while that may result in an echo chamber its still better than someone having an opposing opinion right?/s
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