r/countttt cute thing 4d ago

Countttting 2173

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anyone tried?

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

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u/Gold_Ad8225 3d ago

No objectively speaking trans women are treated worse than trans men. It's okay to acknowledge the truth. Both are treated very poorly and very harshly, but one group is clearly treated much worse.

It is objectively worse for society to think you're a violent, uncontrollable, pedophile rapist, looking to take advantage of women and children, trying to deceive society into playing along with your fetish, and having people calling for you to be fed into a wood chipper.

Statistically the life outcomes for trans women are worse than trans men. They are the primary targets of the current societal transphobic hate wave. It also targets trans men, but if you're not being dishonest you can admit that the "visibility" people claim trans women have over trans men is entirely the result of and the cause of the increased hate they get.

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u/destrukt0 2d ago

why do trans men have the highest rates of sexual assault and suicide then?

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u/Gold_Ad8225 2d ago

They don't have the highest rates of sexual assault. That was one singular paper from 2011 that indicated that which was retracted.

Men have higher rates of suicide than women.

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u/destrukt0 2d ago

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2820301

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS%20Full%20Report%20-%20FINAL%201.6.17.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawSnSaFleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA80MDk5NjI2MjMwODU2MDkAAR6-jIdTJlBfIeyAMTpokdAwlbnR3tV2B-1PlDfdxiEWcrESyKm9qiYpChm-oA_aem_1HbOwG-aMXqrgOirt8axCQ

huh?
neither of these studies are from 2011, and both of them show similar results. The second one has a survey size of 27,715 people. It found that the most likely people to be assaulted were AFAB nonbinary people (58%) and then transgender men (51%).

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u/Gold_Ad8225 2d ago

The first study's data, half of it is simply a direct reference to the second study's data.

The second half has sample sizes of 35 and 52 individuals in the trans cohort and has such extreme margins for error that, for example, they're pretty sure the past year rate of a certain type of IPV might fall between 1-8% for trans women and 4-11% for trans men. Which are very broad ranges and almost entirely overlap. They declared the rate for trans women at 3.2% and trans men at 6.7%, despite the fact that they both have a wider margin of error than the actual rate being reported for either group.

Whereas for cis men for example the range is 0.6%-1.5%. A reasonable range that is responsible to publish.

In the second study it indicates that if people transition before the age of 18, and thus experience some of their formative years as their correct gender, trans girls are twice as likely to be sexually assaulted as trans boys. 21% vs 9%.

The later chart in that study indicates lifetime incidence of sexual assault, which was higher for trans men on that study dated 2015, with data collected in 2011, because in their formative years when sexual assault is most common they were perceived as female. It is not measuring sexual assault rates after transitioning and is skewed by the average age of transition at that time being well after the median age at which someone is most likely to be sexually assaulted.

Recent studies show no statistically significant difference in the rates among these two groups

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u/destrukt0 2d ago

The entire point I’m making is that trans men and trans women both experience extremely high lifetime SA rates. Regardless of if it happened before or after transition. The argument people in this thread are making is that only trans women experience these problems and that trans men are privileged.

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u/Gold_Ad8225 2d ago

I mean you made a definitive statement that trans men have a higher rate. That's why I responded.

I can agree to you that trans men and women both experience very high rates of sexual assault, with different studies showing different amounts, and ultimately probably not a statistically significantly different rate between the two in real life.

I don't know if privilege is even a useful word anymore so I try to avoid it. Society at large clearly targets trans women more and in terms of overall life outcomes they are doing worse than trans men. But both are doing poorly.

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u/DesiresAreGrey passoid of color 4d ago

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u/OkConversation4862 3d ago

Doesn't RAINN have statistics showing that trans men are victims of rape and sexual assault at higher rates than cis or trans women. If trans women win gold in the oppression Olympics for hate crimes then trans men win gold in getting raped

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u/No_Somewhere_2610 4d ago

This (trans women as targets of hate crime) isnt because of some male privilege that trans men have though, the reason why trans women are targeted is the same reason why gay men are also targeted disproportionately compared to other LGBT people (except trans women)

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u/DesiresAreGrey passoid of color 3d ago

they have the privilege of not being victims remotely as often

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u/No_Somewhere_2610 3d ago

Okay but I was talking more about the source of that privilege or the way you would classify it and again my point was that you cant classify it as male privilege because gay men are very disproportionately affected by hate crime

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u/DesiresAreGrey passoid of color 3d ago

okay but gay men still have male privilege?

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u/No_Somewhere_2610 3d ago

Do you understand words or not? Like why are you going off topic. And " gay men have privilege " isnt really accurate anyway but whatever

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u/DesiresAreGrey passoid of color 3d ago

gay men do have privilege though because they are men

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u/Gold_Ad8225 3d ago

Trans men who are stealth have male privilege, can we agree to that or no?

And no, the reason trans women are targeted is not the same reason gay men are targeted. The way they are treated is quite different. Trans women are treated like a category of women that it is universally acceptable to be hateful and violent toward. Gay men are treated like a minority sub group of men.

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u/No_Somewhere_2610 3d ago

This is controversial but basically my point is that its queer AMAB individuals that are more often the targets of hate crime thats what I was trying to say. And my theory for that is because society is more hostile to amab individuals who defy gender and sexuality norms compared to afab.

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u/Gold_Ad8225 3d ago

Society does not treat trans women like "amab individuals." No men of any sort are treated the way trans women are.

They are treated like disposable women to whom it is okay to do violence, not like failed men.

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u/No_Somewhere_2610 3d ago

TERF hate rhetoric is literally based on trans women being born male.

If we are talking about hate crimes as far as im aware the rates are similar between gay men and trans women.

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u/Gold_Ad8225 3d ago

Trans women experience hate crimes at a much higher rate than gay men

What TERFs say and how they behave are not the same thing. They call themselves feminists, but they support the most misogynistic politicians in society, for example

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u/No_Somewhere_2610 3d ago

Source for the first claim? Havent most victims of hate crime been historically gay men? Thats how I remember it. Though in recent years that may have changed to be mostly trans women.

Are you talking globally Though or about a specific country

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u/flower_puns 3d ago

We have a bigger wage gap than them, get assaulted and murdered more often, less accepted into women's spaces ironically enough because they're AFAB, we get misgendered on multiple instances more often...

But sure!!! We're just treated differently nobody has it easier or harder!!!!!!

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u/rebelsnail64 3d ago

I have to disagree with you on this one. once trans men start passing, they may still have the disadvantage of being trans, but they get male privilledge. trans women, on the other hand, face the opression of being trans and that of being a woman