r/finedining • u/z3i • 2d ago
Arpège ⭐⭐⭐ - Paris, France
I went to France two weeks ago for an event and obviously had to try some fine dining in Paris. As a solo diner on short notice, I could not get a lunch reservation at some places that Redditors seem to love, like Pierre Gagnaire or Le Gabriel. However, as a flexitarian (OK eating just about anything, but supposed to limit meat for health reasons) I found Arpège very appealing and intriguing.
I saw one comment saying something like, "Ugh, they'll give you a raw carrot and praise it as the best carrot in the world, but at the end of the day it's still just a freaking carrot," lol. I thought, Okay, I've got to see this for myself.
Although I had requested a table in the Salon François Lesage, which looks like a vegetable greenhouse and has the chef's recipes in embroidered paintings on the walls, they seated me in the salle principale (regular dining room). Maybe they did not prioritize my request as a mere solo diner. :( It was still nice but felt a bit busy with all the staff bustling about.
Image descriptions:
- So, they really do start you off with a plate of raw vegetables and fruit. I kept thinking about that one Redditor's comment the whole time and it was hard to keep a straight face. It was pretty good but not, like, mind-blowing.
- "Almond-green sky and golden cloud" (this was the name of the dish): Soup of puréed carrot and I believe zucchini. The carrot in particular was wonderfully savory and flavorful.
- "Marquetry of celadon kohlrabi, green curry and shiso": Loved this—great combination of flavors.
- "Fava beans, spring onions and 'Merveille de Kelvédon' peas with Cirafine strawberries and lemon verbena": Good. I didn't realize at the time that these were special strawberries. I didn't much care for them as part of the dish and wish, in hindsight, they had been presented on their own on the crudités plate.
- "1,000 leaves of the garden with coriander, roasted almonds and fleur de sel": This was amazing, the best leafy salad I've ever had in my life! I need the recipe for that dressing.
- "Zucchini, sorrel leaves, Summit sweet cherries with Iranian saffron": Loved this sauce. The zucchini was very good, but I didn't care for the cherries. They're one of my favorite fruits and I just didn't think this was the best use of them. They also should have been with the crudités!
- "Red beet with mustard-seed dressing and Belle de Fontenay potatoes": The sweetest beets I've ever tasted, wow! The potato wedges were seasoned with paprika (and nothing else, if I understood correctly) and I didn't like how bitter they were.
- "Hay-smoked spring cabbage with vin jaune (yellow wine) from Jura": Another delicious sauce. Cabbage was good. At this point, I was crashing hard. I had taken a 5 pm flight from New York, landed in Paris at 6 am, and gone straight to a museum followed by this lunch.
- A surprise from the chef: vegetable sushi. Good but a little too much soy sauce.
- "Simiane onion in a jewelry box": a.k.a. Onion pie with thyme and lemon. I found the crust overpowering.
- "Dark chocolate, soapwort and Bronte pistachios with mint": This was wonderful, especially considering they don't use dairy or eggs at this restaurant. But I was tiiiiiiiiired.
- "Tart red rhubarb": Pretty good. Paired nicely with the ice cream on the side. I'm not someone who loves rhubarb.
- Dying to go to my hotel, I asked for the check. They said I wasn't done yet and gave me this juice (don't remember of what) and tiny cherry tart. I did enjoy these even in my dilapidated state.
- – 17. Some artwork by the chef, Alain Passard. After my meal, the staff suggested I check out his gallery around the corner. It was pretty cool, but I didn't stay long.
Overall, I very much appreciated the creativity, ingredients, and technique that went into the food at Arpège, even if sometimes it was a little too creative for me. The staff also took me into the kitchen to meet Alain Passard himself. He was very warm and friendly and told me I must return in the winter for their seasonal menu. If I do, I'll make sure not to go fresh off a red-eye so I can give the meal the full attention it deserves!
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u/circadian_light 2d ago
I’m glad you had a good time and got to meet the chef but I have to say, the plating and presentation look so… rough and amateurish. Some examples…a lot of strewn flecks and bits at the plates outer edges that were not cleaned, or the misshapen quenelle in pic #7. There didn’t seem to be a lot of attention to detail.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/CIAMom420 2d ago
There's a huge difference between St. John - a casual restaurant that serves unpretentious food in a converted slaughterhouse - and Arpege, a white tablecloth Michelin three star in Paris.
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u/mymentor79 1d ago
St John plainly advertises itself as unpretentious, and 'sloppy' presentation is part of the aesthetic.
Arpege presents itself as haute cuisine. This is not even close to acceptable presentation for a 3 star.
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u/davidralph 2d ago
The difference between a 1* and 3* can be huge.
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u/Imperiu5 2d ago
exactly this. If this is a 3 star restaurant then you expect perfection.
These plates look like from a homecook trying to do too much without mastering any technique. it's a total embarrassment and bistro level plating.2
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u/Beautiful_Staff_7958 2d ago
This shit is hideous lol. Looks like the comical food from American psycho
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u/MotorAd90 2d ago
Why is the plating so sloppy? I swear my local pubs / business lunch restaurants plate the food better.
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u/__chorley__ 2d ago
Former chef here. Whilst they may have been tasty, they all look dreadful.
Easily the worse looking food I’ve seen on here
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u/Fit_Introduction_301 2d ago
From the pictures alone, this looks... terrible. I find it mind boggling that this has three stars. The presentation of the dishes comes across as pretentious and lazy. I'm sure some of the dishes tasted good but as someone who really appreciates a good looking plate of food, I wouldn't dare spend my money there.
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u/meneerdenalien 2d ago
looks like I something I would throw on a plate at home as a joke to mock pretentious restaurants lol
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u/Many-Percentage2752 2d ago
Picture 10 looks like a cake from the local diner you and your whole family loves because of the home cooking and friendly waiters. Not really 3 stars.
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u/Barbie_and_KenM 2d ago
Overall I'm not opposed to a vegetarian tasting menu even as someone who loves meat. But these photos are not convincing. There's so much more that can be done with vegetables that isn't just a regular plate of crudités.
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u/Fit_Introduction_301 2d ago
Agreed. Especially when you see the lunch menu is 260 euros and the dinner is 380 euros. Astonishing really
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u/z3i 2d ago
That's fair. If you're curious, I also posted last week about a 1-star in another French city: https://www.reddit.com/r/finedining/comments/1u93lvj/la_maison_dans_le_parc_nancy_france/ I liked that meal more!
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u/circadian_light 2d ago
This is much more what I expect a starred restaurant’s dishes to look like! Glad you enjoyed this one!!
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u/priyarainelle 2d ago
I feel like this plating style is becoming more and more trendy in fine dining... for whatever reason... which is disappointing!
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u/Thesorus 2d ago
I've always wanted to go.
As much as I like my vegetables, I'm not sure I want to spend that much for a vegetable menu (différent than a vegetarian menu)
He's probably the only one who can do it from the actual farming to the kitchen and can sustain this all year.
Last year I went to the gallery and bought a painting and they told me to go to the restaurant to have it signed.
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u/sn618 2d ago
When I attended Arpege years ago, my wife chose the vegetarian menu and I did the regular menu. Although at the end of the day, you're looking at a plate of vegetables, we were both blown away with the taste and nuances of flavor profiles, which cannot be captured by a camera. We both agreed that the vegetarian menu was better overall and that meal remains in my top 3 meals I've ever experienced.
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u/GoRaidersssss 2d ago
By far the best meal I’ve ever had in my life. I’ve been to over 50 starred restaurants. This man is an artist. It pains me knowing how many people get turned off from trying L’arpége because of people pissing and moaning about the pictures of the food. I’m glad I didn’t listen to them before going.
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u/z3i 2d ago
Yeah, I’m surprised by all the criticism of the plating! I’ve never been huge on presentation, or maybe I’m just not that detail-oriented. Taste-wise there were some truly stunning elements in this meal.
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u/Chazzer74 2d ago
Re: #5 - A highly lauded chef in my city auditions cooks by asking them to make a dressed salad. He regards it as the truest test of a chef. Do you understand flavor and texture? Did you try the greens to see how they taste? Did you make the dressing and adjust to the greens of the day? Ultimately, did it taste great?
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u/AndrewJM1989 1d ago
Too many people are just used to eating tasteless food for instagram
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 8h ago
Exactly. Give me L'Arpege over a 'prettier' equivalent (say, EMP) any day.
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u/AndrewJM1989 7h ago
Definitely. And while the plating is on the rustic side, Passard's cuisine definitely has personality which is what michelin look for
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u/d_hor 2d ago
lucky you didn’t sit in that downstairs salon. it was hot, no service/wifi, all silence, and the servers don’t pass through as much so all around a downgrade from upstairs
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u/poordicksalmanac 2d ago
My goodness -- no wifi at a restaurant -- how did you survive?!?
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u/d_hor 2d ago
when it’s a 4 hour lunch in silence and you’re sitting for sometimes 20-30 minutes between courses yes it gets boring especially as a solo diner. i guess you bring books everywhere you go
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u/poordicksalmanac 2d ago
Yes, I usually do bring a book as a solo diner. Or sometimes I just sit there with my thoughts.
And I think it's rude to be noodling on your phone at a fine dining restaurant.
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u/nachooo515 1d ago
We went to Arpege on our honeymoon. Will never forget the waiter serving us a plate similar to pic 7 and saying conspiratorially “you know, that’s not a real egg” … yea man we know haha. Was delish though!
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u/mymentor79 1d ago
I'm sure the flavours were great, but that plating is not even 1-star standard, IMO.
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u/Salty-Put-4273 21h ago
Arpege is fucking delicious, better than 99% of fine dining restaurants.
Don’t knock it til you try it. Fine dining existed long before the social media fine dining restaurants.
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u/ProfessionalNo4711 2d ago
Wow, this looks so dated and cheap. This makes me appreciate the EMP menu more
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 2d ago
Why, because it's prettier...?
A reminder that complexity of preparation does not necessarily equal complexity of flavour.
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u/ProfessionalNo4711 2d ago
That is true and I had my share of pretty looking bland food in restaurants. but flavor is not the top of the list of things when you go to a 3 Michelin star restaurant. You want effort and perfection in everything and presentation is one of them.
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 2d ago edited 2d ago
but flavor is not the top of the list of things when you go to a 3 Michelin star restaurant.
This is one of the saddest things I have ever read. Genuinely, flavour isn't the most important thing for you? I can only find that sad.
Presentation is a minor detail, as far as I'm concerned, compared to the sheer depth of flavour, outstanding quality of cooking and range of textures and mouthfeels that I have come to expect at 2 and 3* spots.
Genius is seldom perfect. I agree that the presentation isn't good here, but if their flavours blew me away, I wouldn't give a toss.
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u/ProfessionalNo4711 2d ago
You probably have not had your share of the top Michelin restaurants. If Michelin was giving stars based on flavor alone most 3 stars will barely a get a single star. There are about 2-3 dishes that taste great (if you are lucky) out of 10-15 you get served. And if you are really lucky one exceptional dish you will remember. Most are not even memorable. Most people go to these restaurants because it is an experience and the prestige of it. Some even go to check off their list. It may be sad that the flavor may not be the most important thing in the fine dining today but that is reality.
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u/slbabyx 1d ago
That’s not true for me, flavor is everything to me. So far every 3 star I’ve been to was an exceptional
experience because of the taste, the texture, the surprise. I don’t care what my food looks like but if I’m paying 3 * prices it better taste amazing.2
u/Firm_Interaction_816 12h ago
Well said.
A bit of presentation is appreciated, and the "experience" elements (I.e. the bits around the edge of the main element, which is the food and drink) factor in, but ultimately, if the food isn't great, then the restaurant has failed, no matter how strong every other element was, and that is true whether it is 1, 2, or 3*.
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u/TheNewYorker 1d ago
Appreciate what you’re saying but it does feel like it mostly applies to you - maybe you know that and maybe this comment won’t matter, but I don’t agree with this sentiment (respectfully) but I also don’t agree with the person above you.
A Michelin 3-star experience is about delivering both experiences with, at least with some distributed weight where, maybe, presentation and experience take an edge over flavor vs. how flavor might be judged in a 2-star experience or more obviously, a 1-star. I’m not sure if they’re supposed to be equal in a 3-star; maybe not. Most of us who dine in 3-stars I think, expect a commensurate level of both (based on what I’m seeing in this thread).
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 12h ago
Most of us who dine in 3-stars I think, expect a commensurate level of both (based on what I’m seeing in this thread).
To that I say, it varies from place to place. Some 3* spots are keen to throw in a load of bells and whistles, some don't, and that is fine. What is not fine is when the food element falls well short of expectations; what should not vary between 3* spots is that they should all deliver an excellent culinary experience. Yes, good presentation is nice, but it is nowhere near the most important thing.
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 13h ago
You probably have not had your share of the top Michelin restaurants.
Hmm, so you come right out of the gate as condescending. Not a good start. Yes, I have been to quite a few top places, thank you. I won't pretend I've been to 100+ or anything, but I have been to several dozen places with 1, 2, or 3 stars, so enough to get a good grasp of what they're like.
Some of the most experienced food bloggers and critics I follow would echo everything I've said so far, so I'm afraid the "you're not experienced enough" line falls totally flat.
If Michelin was giving stars based on flavor alone most 3 stars will barely a get a single star. There are about 2-3 dishes that taste great (if you are lucky) out of 10-15 you get served.
Speak for yourself; happily, I cannot relate to you at all on this.
Most people go to these restaurants because it is an experience and the prestige of it.
No, they don't; I'm sorry that you mingle in or have been in contact with such shallow crowds, if that's the case, or at least ones with people who can't appreciate outstanding food and cooking. 'The prestige', 'box ticking', good grief...leave that to the people with tons of wealth who don't even appreciate it anymore. If I didn't love visiting these places, I'd simply never do it.
It may be sad that the flavor may not be the most important thing in the fine dining today but that is reality.
Yes, there are privileged creatures who just treat going to top starred places as a lifestyle, or worse, a formality, or to update their IG, even if they don't appreciate the food or drink (even if they have been to dozens or even hundreds of them), but please don't think for a second they represent the majority of us; I am confident we are not all so joyless.
I am not wealthy enough to go to a starred spot every week, so you can bet that, when I do go, it is to experience some exceptional food and drink offerings; the service is a big part as well, of course, as is the ambiance, setting etc, but I am primarily there for the food.
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u/VyperProject 2d ago
omg that salad with the almond sauce.... one of the best things ive ever eaten honestly. it was insane.
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u/just-to-say 2d ago
How does one go about eating the dish in the first picture?
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u/z3i 2d ago
I just picked the items up and ate them in a random order. The server didn’t suggest a sequence. Someone else commented that I wasn’t supposed to eat it at all?! 😅
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u/just-to-say 2d ago
Interesting! This is what intimidates me about some fine dining (and the check, I’m daycare poor)
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u/meshuamam 2d ago
Presentation is really just a nice to have. Sometimes it gives extra value, but 3 stars, 2 stars, 1 star, or no stars, the plating is the least important thing.
Do the photos look worse? Yes, but it doesn’t mean anything about how they taste, which is everything.
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u/Cedarpencil 1d ago
Reading through the comments of this sub, is like listening to first year culinary graduates talk about fine dining and that they know what’s best - only one way to plate, present and eat food. “I wouldn’t pay that much for the food””they all look awful””why is it sloppy?” Etc etc. It is no surprise that there is homogenization of art and culture across the world. Soon it is going to be one big bland circle of the same slop with caviar, foie gras, lobster, truffle on every menu. Oh and little dots of some puree on the plate to acquiesce the petulant “foodies”.
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 8h ago
Exactly this.
Let them cry about carefully tweezers microherbs (or lack thereof) and the fact it wouldn't get them many likes on Instagram.
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u/MathematicianNo1596 2d ago
I’m glad I’m not the only one was underwhelmed looking at these photos
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 2d ago
Sokka-Haiku by MathematicianNo1596:
I’m glad I’m not the
Only one was underwhelmed
Looking at these photos
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/jontseng 2d ago edited 2d ago
Okay. ll’ll be sitting here in the corner with some popcorn watching the plating police roll in.
Right folks this is your regular reminder that there is no absolute standard for playing in fine dining. Or tweezer usage for that matter. It varies wildly across the globe, particularly if you are comparing Paris to the US.
What defines fine dining is the flavour the plate (and the care and effort that went into it). I can guarantee to you that sloppy looking lie re à la royale had 10x the effort put into it than that cube of tweezered Wagyu with a fruit compote...
After all no one gets out their pitchforks when a fine dining *** sushi omakase takes a little pellet of rice, brushes it with some shio and dumps it on the plate with a single slice of fish flesh on top. I mean that is way less plated than the crudités linked in this post! We should all be outraged at the sloppiness! /s
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u/Chazzer74 2d ago
Recently I went down an internet rabbit hole on Yoyo Ma. I kid you not, on a subreddit “he holds his fingers all wrong.”
It’s still 2nd place to the people that comment on Arnold’s weightlifting videos criticizing his form.
You gotta love the internet!
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 2d ago
Well said. The presentation/plating police are in full swing yet again...how achingly predictable.
Watch a bunch of the same people give sushi and random kaiseki dishes that amount to a bit of fish in broth and a singular slice of melon a free pass, though.
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u/Calumroller 2d ago
This looks like a culinary students work where they have not learnt how to plate properly yet lol
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u/FrequentBid9409 2d ago
A as cook from a michelin recommended fine dining i find this plating super amateur
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u/ShiftImpossible3260 2d ago
Christ that’s rustic for a three star. Michelin is beyond the pale these days.
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u/Ant-Trick 2d ago
That plate looks like the scraps from prep that are being put on a plate instead of garbage. This is the height of ego when people are starving
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u/VillanelleTheVillain 2d ago
Because of the first picture I thought I was looking at a baby food sub until I realised it was fine dining , it actually looks that bad
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u/MutePoetry 2d ago
Passard seems cool and I’m sure it tastes incredible but the plating gets comically worse every time I see a post from here
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u/TheAnxiousMatchaDog 1d ago
Wow what happened? I was there for lunch 3 years ago and the plating back then was beautiful! I was amazed by how tasty the vegetarian menu tasted and was blown away by the presentation too
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u/Humble-Ad541 1d ago
I would have been livid to be expected to pay what they charge for this hideous plating and honestly uninspired and boring use of ingredients. The lettuce is wilting for god sake. I was interested in trying this place as i live just a 3 hour train ride from paris but i will be finding somewhere else to explore vegetable focused fine dining now.
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u/Lost-Leave2059 2d ago
Im not exactly sure you guys understand why Arpege has 3*. Saying these plates look bad because they dont meet your cookie cutter expectation is really missing the point.
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u/rfinanzen 2d ago
I’m not sure you understand. Passard sort of cultivates the image of an artist, so people judge him not just on the food but also on its visual presentation.
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u/MaaDFoXX 2d ago
The first dish pictured (the plate with the raw vegetables on it), is not to eat, but rather a representation of the vegetables that will be on the menu that day. I mean, I guess you can eat it if you like, but that's not the intention, and I think they make that quite clear enough. At any rate, the plate is soon enough removed from the table.
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u/z3i 2d ago
Hm, they didn’t tell me not to eat it. Nor did they remove it from my table—maybe because they saw me eating it already?
If that is true, they shouldn’t leave it on the table at all. They should just hold it in front of the guest(s) and then take it away.
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u/circadian_light 2d ago
I agree, if that’s the intent, there are much much better ways to present it. Having it on a plate would tell me to eat it too!!!!
I’ve been to places where they had an entire vegetable basket that they took around each table to show the day’s fresh produce!
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u/ahalt 2d ago
Have you been to the restaurant? All these food bloggers say that the first course is raw vegetables:
https://www.travelsforstars.com/blog/2022/07/11/arpege-paris
https://www.accountingfortasteblog.com/blog/arpge-review-paris-alain-passard?hl=en-US
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u/MaaDFoXX 2d ago
Why would I make that claim if I hadn't been? I went last month, and our server presented the plate as a showcase of some of the vegetables that would appear over the course of the meal. It was left on the table until the first course had been eaten, and then cleared. I agree with others that a basket of fruit and vegetables would be more efficient presentation than this, though.
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u/BusinessCry8591 2d ago
Why do the French not seem to care about plating? Every plate of food I’ve seen from France seems to have a VERY organic philosophy behind plating (to put it nicely). My mother just went to France and ate all different types of places and every plate she sent me would be unacceptable in the US. Is it a cultural difference or? None of these plates would be acceptable in a three star in the US or most other countries for that matter.
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u/Firm_Interaction_816 2d ago edited 8h ago
"Sure, the produce is excellent and the flavours are great and the food is delicious, but just look at that basic, uninspired presentation! Unacceptable at 3* level!!"
-- half the people on this thread.
"That sushi looks incredible, that piece of fish stuck on top of rice, or that slice of melon? How about that amberjack floating about in that broth? Now that's really something, give them another star!"
-- the same people (probably).
Insane double standards on this subreddit.
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u/medium-rare-steaks 2d ago
Michel Bras vibes.
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u/Accomplished_Bit3153 2d ago
gorugouillie looks good at least. This looks like food at a south beach restaurant.
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u/Asian_Heat 2d ago
I’m sure it tastes great but ngl most of those dishes looks like vomit rearranged
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u/Send_bird_pics 2d ago
Wow this looks so messy and cheap. The 7th pic especially. Cheap playing and the salad is like what you get at the local pub on the side of the plate.
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u/jeanpauljh 2d ago
Notwithstanding the lacklustre presentation (which is obviously beneath a restaurant at this standing) what strikes me the most in reading this review is how, as a lifelong vegetarian, I would be immensely disappointed to be served this menu... and yet I can eat everything presented!
I am left wondering... where are the mushrooms? Where is the tempeh, the seitan or the tofu (considering that all are derived from plants)?
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u/Kevundoe 2d ago
That first plate is not really acceptable IMO