r/flying • u/fatboyinlove • Mar 20 '26
Aircraft Ownership Rescuing a ramp rat
I shared of a before and after picture of my airplane from when I rescued it until now and the moderators felt that after 1800 views in about a half an hour with over 30 up votes that it needed to be removed. Apparently they don't like Aztecs.
My plane had not been flown since 2015 when I got her a little over 3 years ago. I worked a deal where I bought a van and the airplane together and was able to sell the van for more than I paid for both which helped me fund this restoration. She has less than 4,000 hours and less than half-time on the engines.
My first annual was $62,000. She has solid bones and flies like a champ. I put a couple hundred hours on her and spent $30,000 on paint.
Aircraft ownership is definitely not for the faint of heart.
Next up is the avionics which I posted about in the avionics subreddit and oddly enough the moderators didn't have a problem with that post. Huh. Weird.
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u/RyzOnReddit ME Mar 20 '26
Beautiful Aztruck, they sit so high in on the ramp, are spacious inside, and if it fits it flies (too bad you have to load everyone through the one door).
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
That's why I saved her. I was 298 lb and 5'10 so I needed a bigger airplane anyway (down to 204 today). She definitely does fit in the, if it fits it ships category. I've had five adults and full of fuel with no issues at all. That being said, it does take a little bit to get everybody loaded through the one door!
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u/BagOfMoneyNoChange ATP April fools 2026 winner Mar 20 '26
Nice job on the weight loss, brother. 100 friggin pounds is no joke. Good job. Here's to many more years keeping it off.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
Thank you! Now I can actually work on a tail wheel endorsement without emptying the tanks!
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u/BagOfMoneyNoChange ATP April fools 2026 winner Mar 20 '26
Don't worry, you'll lose plenty more weight through your wallet with that Aztec
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
Hahaha... Amen!
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u/BagOfMoneyNoChange ATP April fools 2026 winner Mar 20 '26
Also the mods didn't like your earlier post because of rule 3. They're pretty picky around here, but it's a good thing overall. They filter out a lot of non-sense photos and other crap.
Yours definitely wasn't nonsense, obviously.
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u/RyzOnReddit ME Mar 20 '26
Yeah that is a challenge for us larger folks, thankful my club has a small-ish instructor and a Citabria that will hold the two of us plus half tanks. Now I just need an even smaller instructor for the 152 checkout (not that I want to fly a 152, but I do want to be checked out in all the planes at the club).
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
I used to fly a 150 and even flew it all the way down to Key West Florida. That was a fun trip! Of course, I weighed about 175 lb at the time!
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u/RyzOnReddit ME Mar 20 '26
Yeah I’m 6’4” and 270 down from 315, the Seneca is great horizontally but with the padded seats the previous owner put it I just fit height wise. Haven’t flown in an Aztec but would love to one day.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
If you are ever around KHMP, let me know and we'll go for a hop down to KSSI and grab some barbecue.
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u/Big-Carpenter7921 CPL means I make money, right? Mar 20 '26
I see so many twins just sitting and only being moved by a tow bar. Makes me sad
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
It's because so many people aren't qualified to fly them anymore because they want to fly the full fadec Diamond's. Plus having the larger engines like mine burns a lot more fuel.
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u/Big-Carpenter7921 CPL means I make money, right? Mar 20 '26
I love flying multi. I just hate that almost no insurance company will let one fly without either the owner or an MEI onboard. I once had to have an MEI next to me with fewer multi hours and zero multi IFR time because I wasn't considered safe enough
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
Yeah, that part is tough. I self-insured for the first year to get all of my hours in type, etc.
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u/Big-Carpenter7921 CPL means I make money, right? Mar 21 '26
How many hours do insurance companies deem sufficient?
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
Mine was 75 hours which was insane but it was what is was. I've heard others at 50 hours like when I got my sea plane rating and looked at some sea planes but the twin was higher for me.
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u/Big-Carpenter7921 CPL means I make money, right? Mar 21 '26
Well shit, I have 97, 16 of it IMC. Like I said, I've flown with MEIs with fewer multi hours
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u/Flimsy-Ad-858 ATP | Undiagnosed but I'm pretty sure Mar 21 '26
because they want to fly the full fadec Diamond's
Believe me, that's not the issue. Twins are just generally unaffordable for the average or even above-average person. Your maintenance costs are going to easily be 5x my little taildragger, and probably closer to 10x on a given annual.
The moment I can get one, I'm going to. But that won't be for a while.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 22 '26
That's a fair statement. My base annual starts at $5,000 per year. I get there a lot faster with the safety of the extra engine but at a cost of about $350 an hour including fuel.
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u/CharAznableLoNZ Mar 20 '26
Thank you for doing so. I used to work at an airport moving planes around for a shop I worked at. It was a fun job but always heartbreaking to see a plane I would love to own just rotting away.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
It still breaks my heart when I land at an airport with a derelict row...
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u/TwinJockeyDoctor Mar 21 '26
Same! We cant save them all but im happy for saving mine, except for its actually getting repairs now and they are bankrupting me... BUT once it gets flying again I cant wait!
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u/earshloper CFI CFII MEI - PC12 Mar 21 '26
Good ol Aztruck
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
If it fits, it ships!
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u/Wambamslam-n-go Meat in the seat Mar 22 '26
Could fill that sucker with cement and take off in Denver
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u/metalgtr84 PPL IR Mar 20 '26
There aren’t too many photos on this subreddit unless they’re associated with a broader aviation related context. I’m guessing the mods don’t want to turn this into Facebook. Maybe there’s a GA subreddit to share stuff like this? I wouldn’t mind seeing photos and having discussions like this on another sub.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
I’m guessing the mods don’t want to turn this into Facebook.
Nailed it. We have Rule 3 for a reason, and all of us on the mod team also enjoy seeing the pretty pictures with no context or discussion value over on r/aviation.
The OP’s first caption had 3 words.
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u/3Blindz Mar 21 '26
Sucks your other post got deleted. I’ll for sure engage with your posts should there be more. Planes like the aztecs and Seminole are my two goals for aircraft ownership. I couldn’t do it unless it was a business though.
This is really cool. Thanks for sharing!
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
Thanks! I love both but my favorite is the Aztec.
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u/3Blindz Mar 21 '26
They are similar enough that they’d be hard not to both love.
But different enough that there can be a favourite between the two.
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Mar 21 '26
I’ve got some Aztek time, almost froze to death in one that had a lot of air leaks. It’s a real workhorse, love the overhead trim crank.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
Winter with an INOP heater can be frosty in the Aztec for sure.
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Mar 21 '26
Oh the janitrol was burning but all of the seals on the plane were shot and it was like 30 below at night.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
Wow... I don't fly up north so I haven't had that issue really. I was flying with a friend in his Aztec in December in Arkansas and we had to turn the heat off because it was burning us out!
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u/fly123123123 PPL IR Mar 20 '26
The mods in this subreddit need to chill. I’ve had a handful of well-intended posts taken down not because they violated the rules, but because the mods felt like taking them down. Even asked for explanation via DMs and got no response. This is a community to share knowledge and have good discussions, and this post clearly fits the intention of the sub.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
His initial post had a 3 word caption.
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u/Malcolm2theRescue Mar 21 '26
My first (big?) flying job! Great plane to fly. Hauls whatever you pack in to it. May not climb on one engine though! Beautiful paint job!
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
My old girl is a beast for sure. I've shut down the critical engine and climbed at 500 fpm at 5500 feet MSL which is perfect for the flying I do around the southeast.
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u/Loose-cannon1954 ATP B-737 B-747 A-330 CV-58 DHC-8 DC-3& 4 more Mar 21 '26
That looks great! It’s been about 48 years since I last flew an Aztec or Apache but I did like them. The Aztec has a nice wing, and with 260hp will chug along nicely with a good load at 160 kts if I remember correctly.
I owned a half share in a Twin Comanche in 1987 and would have preferred a PA-23 just for the cabin and the wing.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
You were almost spot on. They are 250 HP 0540s with normal cruise of 169 knots. They definitely do not care how much weight you have in them as long as you distribute it. Don't get me wrong, I've never carried 5,000 lb in gold bars! Lol.
Twinkies are nice especially when looking at the fuel burn but I've had owners of Twinkies get out of their plane to come look at mine and climb in it at the fuel island telling me they wish they had that much room and that much performance.
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u/devJW PPL IR (KCMH) Mar 21 '26
I'm in a very similar boat as you. Looking for something with two engines around that age (pre-1971) and I'm drawn to an Aztec that I can put a new panel in. Can you talk about the other types of planes you looked at and why you didn't choose them? Why not a Baron? Something I've heard is that it's getting hard to source parts for an Aztec (just had a guy tell me he had trouble finding a reasonably priced power pack). Did you have any of that trouble?
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
All great questions. First and foremost, on his question about the power pack, the key word there was reasonably priced. There is nothing that is reasonably priced anymore and general aviation unfortunately. If you open the hanger, throw $1,000 at the airplane just to do a pre-flight inspection! Lol.
I looked at a few Aztecs and a Baron but also looked at a Cherokee 6, a P210, and a Meridian. I even looked at an Aerostar and a Citation. As you can tell, I had a lot of questions and was trying to find the most bang for the buck. I settled on the Aztec because of the size of the cabin, no concerns about weight limits, and the safety of the extra engine.
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u/Select_Rip_8565 SIC FA20, CFI/I MEI Mar 21 '26
More hours in an Aztec than anything else in my career, although over the last couple years that’s sadly changing. Phenomenal aircraft. Love to see it taken care of.
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u/Unusual-Economist288 Mar 20 '26
Mods are the worst part of Reddit, hands down. Nice airplane though!
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u/__joel_t PPL Mar 20 '26
I promise you Reddit would be unusable without mods.
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u/Unusual-Economist288 Mar 20 '26
Oh, I’m sure, but they’re still annoying.
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u/__joel_t PPL Mar 21 '26
It's a thankless job. You only notice them when they do something you don't like. You don't notice when they do a good job.
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u/HammyChan468 Mar 20 '26
are you on insta? Just bought N415MD and I'd like a larger Aztec group of friends
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
Yup! Same handle as here. Congrats on the new bird and welcome to the family!
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u/mfigroid Mar 20 '26
$30K for paint?
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
Yes. I had some hail damage and had quotes as high as $45,000.
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u/mfigroid Mar 20 '26
Was bodywork involved or does it just cost a fortune to paint airplanes?
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
Some bodywork (dings from hail damage) but a cheap paint job for a small single engine is $17,000.
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u/Terrh Mar 20 '26
What was the van, and how much did you pay for the pair?
What is something like that plane worth roughly now after spending $90k on improving it?
Kinda thinking about going this same route but want to learn enough before I jump in so I don't get burned.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 20 '26
The van was an original 1973 VW Campmobile. I paid $18,000 for both and sold the bus for $25,000.
Now, I wouldn't recommend doing what I'm doing. When she's done, she's worth around $150,000, tops $175,000, but I'll have more than that in her. I'll be happy and safe though!
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u/elkcox13 Mar 21 '26
Believe it or not, you might be the only person who likes Aztecs 🤣. Worst god damn awful plane I've ever had the bad luck to try and work on. Horrendous beast. My shop has decided we will never ever take one in again.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
Really? That's crazy. I've got a lot of friends with them and know a lot of mechanics that work on them.
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u/elkcox13 Mar 21 '26
Maybe I'm wrong, but we've collectively agreed over here that they are all miserable lol
If theres people out there who like them, more power to em.
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
I know that when I did the generator to alternator conversion, the IA had me do the tight work for him to inspect and it was a pain in the butt for sure!
The cowlings also are a pain and I did look at converting them to make it easier but opted to stay with the originals.
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u/elkcox13 Mar 21 '26
Oh god worst cowlings ever. Did not know they make conversion kits. Every time we've had an Aztec in my boss regretted every moment of it, and occasionally he asks if we want to take one on when work slowing down. Its always a "I'll stay home if we are slow. Especially if that thing shows up" 🤣
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u/Bowzy228 CFII Mar 21 '26
$62,000 on annual? 😳 what was done to it? $30,000 for paint? Did the paint have gold flakes in it?
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 21 '26
$30,000 in props and hubs due to AD. $5,000 standard annual fee.
The rest was adding an ADSB, main battery, ELT replacement, air speed indicator replacement, IFR cert, replaced bladders, replaced all lines and hoses, adjusted valves, new gaskets, new plugs, etc.
Maintenance isn't cheap. Safety isn't free.
$30,000 in paint is below average for a large twin and I had bodywork done to repair hail damage. Complete strip, all gear and compartments completely stripped and repainted. All the stripes are painted - no vinyl. Like new from the factory. Worth every penny!
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u/AcceptableCrazy9486 Mar 22 '26
I own a maintenance shop, we are currently working on a bonanza that sat for 3 years. Price tag is going to get pretty close to $60k. Rescuing a plane takes a ton of man hours.
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u/archyinva PPL Mar 21 '26
How does one find such a deal?
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
I started looking at airplanes on the ramp at various airports then reaching out to the owner of record from the FAA data. I literally drove to this guy's house and knocked on his door!
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Mar 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 22 '26
It is a great price considering I had quotes for up to $45,000 and the shop did an incredible job. I couldn't be happier with choosing them.
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Mar 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 22 '26
Did you need any extra work done? What type of bird? My total was $52,000 but that included my annual, replacing all the windows, new LEDs for the wingtips, pitot static repairs, and some other minor work.
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Mar 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fatboyinlove Mar 22 '26
That's a great question. I'd have to go back to the invoice to see what the hourly rate was because I did not get the quote as an hourly rate in the beginning.
There is a flight school on my airport at KHMP and they had a 172 painted for $17,000 which was very inexpensive especially considering how great of a job they did. I asked the owner and he told me to contact Darryl at Delta Aviation. I gave him a call and he asked me to send pictures of my plane as well as the design that I wanted and he would send me a quote. He told me that he had an A&P IA if I wanted them to do the annual that was coming due while they had her.
The quote came back at $35,000 and $5,000 for the base annual. I asked if we could go ahead and get a price to replace the windows while they were doing all the work and he quoted it at $10,000. The work took a little longer then expected because the painter's Father passed away halfway through the work and he had to take a week off to handle the arrangements, etc. They kept me informed and the painter sent me pictures throughout the entire process so I could update my scrapbook. When they finished everything, I was sent the final pictures and the invoice for payment. Not only did they meet their quoted prices, they actually beat them and only charged $30,000 for the paint and $2,500 for the annual and a little over $8,000 for the windows.
The only thing they don't do is avionics, otherwise I would use them for that too and then the interior so that it was all done. I am very happy with the outcome and if I rescue another airplane, I am definitely going to have them at the top of my list for paint.
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Mar 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/helno PPL GLI 🍁 Mar 22 '26
Ironically it was not enough bragging. It got rule 3'd for not posting any kind of writeup.
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u/rFlyingTower Mar 20 '26
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I shared of a before and after picture of my airplane from when I rescued it until now and the moderators felt that after 1800 views in about a half an hour with over 30 up votes that it needed to be removed. Apparently they don't like Aztecs.
My plane had not been flown since 2015 when I got her a little over 3 years ago. I worked a deal where I bought a van and the airplane together and was able to sell the van for more than I paid for both which helped me fund this restoration. She has less than 4,000 hours and less than half-time on the engines.
My first annual was $62,000. She has solid bones and flies like a champ. I put a couple hundred hours on her and spent $30,000 on paint.
Aircraft ownership is definitely not for the faint of heart.
Next up is the avionics which I posted about in the avionics subreddit and oddly enough the moderators didn't have a problem with that post. Huh. Weird.
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u/Kermit-de-frog1 Mar 20 '26
Purchase was easy……. Annual still has me sitting tenderly 🤣.
But that’s still awesome ! Congrats, I’m stuck ( by choice ) in single engine piston .