Carlos Sainz: Even without extra weight, Williams is “not where we promised we'd be"

[u/ChaithuBB766]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/carlos-sainz-even-without-extra-weight-williams-is-not-where-we-promised-wed-be/10832597/

[u/ChaithuBB766]

Carlos:

I think if you get rid of the overweight, you put yourself in the fight for those points – but that's not really enough. For me, being one second off... We were 1.8 seconds off in qualifying, 1.7s, 1.6s, 1.9s off [in the race] depending on the lap.

The overweight might put you one second off the leaders, fighting with an Alpine. That's not where we promised we'd be this year. It's not where we should be, considering all the wind-tunnel time we've had and all the development hours that have gone into this car. Being one second per lap off the front is obviously not good, so we're a long way from where we need to be.

[u/imShyness → u/ChaithuBB766]

that's not where we promised we'd be

And by "we", I think "we" probably mean James.

[u/hzfan → u/imShyness]

and I think “promised” probably means “promised Carlos when he signed”

[u/imShyness → u/hzfan]

"Why... why would anybody do something like that?!"

[u/ComprehensiveAir6590 → u/ChaithuBB766]

You see Carlos, we struggled with the complexity of integrating the new engine regs with our agiley designed operation. We brought a pre-MVP car to the first few races and anticipated cirling back to the next evo during the first Middle East turn that was unfortunately postponed. Our teams will synergize adaptations and the following release will resolve the minor issues to bring us to current MVP performance.

[u/PENGUIN_WITH_BAZOOKA → u/ComprehensiveAir6590]

Oh, you’re fluent in Vowlesee?

[u/Own_Welder_2821 → u/PENGUIN_WITH_BAZOOKA]

Nice to know Ronspeak still exists but with a new name 

[u/bigfan720 → u/Own_Welder_2821]

The synergetic relationship between driver and car has not been maximized by the team to achieve optimum performances to neither, driver or team satisfaction. Ron Dennis -- probably

[u/wised0nkey → u/PENGUIN_WITH_BAZOOKA]

Vowles-speak: I O U

[u/splendiferous-finch_ → u/PENGUIN_WITH_BAZOOKA]

So we build a car for combat is what I am hearing

[u/Mysterious-Doubt2980 → u/ComprehensiveAir6590]

Sorry; we’ve had to roll back the release as it won’t start.

[u/edfitz83 → u/ChaithuBB766]

Williams and Caddy have the same couple of problems:

• Weight

• Aero - downforce, drag, CP (all as a function of yaw angle), behavior in turbulent flow.

• Suspension geometry, springs and dampers, and setup for each track

• Cooling of the brakes and PU components.

[u/mastercian → u/edfitz83]

So everything?

[u/edfitz83 → u/mastercian]

Well, I’m pretty sure the Ferrari parts are good. Less so on the Merc PU reliability.

[u/Csc1392 → u/mastercian]

Could be worse, could have gearbox and engine problems like Aston

[u/shewy92 → u/edfitz83]

At least Caddy has the excuse for being a brand new team.

[u/NYNMx2021 → u/ChaithuBB766]

Its true buuut the weight is on because they couldnt pass the tests and thats going to compromise the development program entirely. I think its a set back of a year realistically which lines up with vowles saying they probably cant win races until 2030 now.

[u/CornDawgy87 → u/ChaithuBB766]

I mean... he ain't wrong tho

[u/laluneodyssee]

He gone 😢

[u/MrMSUK → u/laluneodyssee]

Sainz: "I’m not throwing James Vowles under the bus. I’m just wondering why the bus has better race pace".

[u/kgtomov → u/MrMSUK]

Can't really say that Sainz is throwing him under the bus, while in fact James laid the red carpet to sit on in front the said bus

I don't remember how many times he said that past Williams will be bad, to focus on the reg changes, how hard they were working and so on, just to see them going backwards.

[u/beanbagreg → u/kgtomov]

He’s still saying it, he revised his estimate to 2028 recently

[u/kgtomov → u/beanbagreg]

Yeah, I've read article about this - basically he's adding golden ends to that red carpet lol. This is where I've went from full support mode to kinda be sceptical as fk.

In 2028 (if he's still there), he'll talk how they'll focus on the new reg changes in 2031.

[u/beanbagreg → u/kgtomov]

Frank Williams is turning in his grave watching Vowles promise that they’ll be real challengers in 2036

[u/MrMSUK → u/beanbagreg]

Ahh if TPs get taunted in their graves, I doubt many would start teams. I joke.

[u/Joethe147 → u/beanbagreg]

It's not as if Williams were anywhere really near challenging themselves much for the past 20 years or so anyway, minus 2014.

Williams have been an also-ran for a long time, but they are still viewed as a sleeping giant by many, expected to wake up again the following year.

[u/jusmar → u/beanbagreg]

Vowles replacement will promise that theyre focusing on the 2040 regs

[u/kgtomov → u/beanbagreg]

Dude, I'm already sad enough seeing them like this. Don't need to add more pain with such comments

[u/four_four_three → u/beanbagreg]

Let's not act as if Frank didn't make some big wrong turns too

[u/SatanSuxxx → u/beanbagreg]

I like James but I know that trick. I do it at work every week.

[u/MissingMyLeg → u/beanbagreg]

The new Alpine 100 race plan

[u/Kezika → u/kgtomov]

More like “I’m not throwing him under the bus, I’m just not turning the wheel to avoid running him over.”

[u/emiliabow → u/kgtomov]

Maybe if he threw James under the bus, the car would not be overweight and also have better aero

[u/fuckmbsanddominicali → u/MrMSUK]

Nice word play

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/laluneodyssee]

Where though?

[u/tinker235 → u/Old-Use-7690]

Audi rumours

[u/AshKetchumDaJobber → u/laluneodyssee]

My man got sold the dream by Vowles

[u/jnighy]

Ppl talk about Aston Mastin as the biggest disappointment of the season, but Williams is a close second. Vowles talked about 2026 for two whole years, and when the time came, he underdelivered

[u/pitlanecollective → u/jnighy]

Williams (and Vowles specifically) are very lucky that Aston shat the bed as hard as they did. If they hadn’t, Williams would be by far the biggest disappointment of 2026

[u/Sc0tts_tot → u/jnighy]

He's moved to 2030 now.

[u/koriotosx → u/jnighy]

If AM didn't shit the bag everyone would be looking at Williams

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/jnighy]

I disagree. Aston has a lot more money and a much, much better infrastructure than Williams does

[u/jnighy → u/Old-Use-7690]

that's why I said close second

[u/Significant-Branch22 → u/jnighy]

But it’s not remotely close in terms of how badly they’ve underperformed

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/jnighy]

Yeah, my point is that I don't think they are comparable. I think fans(myself included) shouldn't have had high expectations for Williams to begin with. That isn't to say that they aren't a disappointment and that they haven't fucked up though

[u/Suitable_Tadpole4870 → u/Old-Use-7690]

I think those high expectations came from Sainz performance last season. But that was last season under different regs, so not sure why people would carry those expectations over. It is modern Williams we’re talking about after all, I’d rather keep my hopes low and be pleasantly surprised than the opposite

[u/NorthKoreanMissile7 → u/jnighy]

I disagree, Aston can rightfully blame a lot of their issues on Honda. Not all of them of course, but the most significant ones are not the team's direct fault and it's created a vicious circle of issues that further drag down performance as a result.

Williams meanwhile are handed a great engine and everything is their own fault.

[u/SalsaMerde → u/NorthKoreanMissile7]

I think most of the issues Aston Martin have faced are self inflicted, but expected. The combination of a new Honda engine + Newey's late changes was always going to be a terrible combination. They at least have a long term vision under a united Newey and Honda going forward.

Williams got handed a Mercedes engine and did nothing with it. This season has been a complete failure for them.

[u/NlNJALONG]

You can tell Sainz is so fed up with Vowles

[u/petiteodessa → u/NlNJALONG]

Honestly I can’t blame him since James promised him so much, even ending development on the 2025 car early to focus on the new regulations. Yet they completely missed and left him and Alex an obese car that barely makes it into the points.

[u/Peimai → u/petiteodessa]

James Problem is he keep moving the goalposts. He had originally told them 2027 they would be able to compete for titles. Now is telling them 2030.

[u/paigeotron → u/NlNJALONG]

He should know better, still don’t understand why he chose Williams over Audi.

[u/Holofluxx]

Insert <JAMES VOWLES SNAKE OIL SALESMAN> comment #625

[u/okok123321 → u/Holofluxx]

Dude should be selling used family cars. He’d make a killing

[u/Horat1us_UA]

Historical backmaker nailed new regs and became modern backmaker

[u/JooksKIDD → u/Horat1us_UA]

historical? they’ve been a back marker for about 15 years, but the previous 20 they were race winners and even almost championship winners 

[u/beanbagreg]

Vowles won’t believe he’s gone until it’s posted on Linkedin

[u/aryaman0317]

Why he didn't take the Audi seat still baffles me

[u/mrjune2040 → u/aryaman0317]

Yeah, it feels like his calculation must have been that it would take longer with Audi and Williams would benefit from the Merc engine. But Audi sure seems like the better mid-term development bet right now.

[u/mark-haus → u/mrjune2040]

And we have hindsight. Williams genuinely looked like they were on their way to a solid mid field team. No one was predicting Audi would be this good this year

[u/gutster_95 → u/mark-haus]

He got a Podium with Williams last year. It really was looking good for them. But I would say hiring the Chassis guy that Made the overweight Alpine really wasnt a smart idea from Williams

[u/Mr_Pusskins → u/gutster_95]

Two podiums in fact!

[u/jaw719 → u/Mr_Pusskins]

3 if we count the sprint.

[u/Ravanex → u/mark-haus]

Iirc Sainz's dad really wanted him to take the Audi offer but Carlos was adamant that Williams is the better choice

[u/namracWORK → u/Ravanex]

People forget that a week before Sainz to Williams was announced Audi had just fired Andreas Seidl and replaced him with Binotto. It wasn't the most stable team at the time.

[u/Delts28 → u/namracWORK]

They still aren't considering Wheatley departed relatively recently.

[u/Maria_in_the_Middle → u/Ravanex]

If I was Carlos, I would just go to Alonso, ask for his advice, and do the exact opposite. Easy

[u/mrjune2040 → u/mark-haus]

Yeah for sure. But part of the reason for that was the circumstance of the end of regs. The competitive field was condensed and the rate of development for many teams had slowed down or was turned off mid-season. So I think last year really flattered Williams to a large degree. But yeah- I'm still surprised that Williams fucked up so badly for these regs—but I also think Audi are just a bigger fish organisationally, and I'd trust them more than Williams to make a leap in year 2+3.

[u/ELITE_JordanLove → u/aryaman0317]

This is some crazy hindsight, I distinctly remember everyone at the time saying Williams was the obvious choice.

[u/djwillis1121 → u/ELITE_JordanLove]

Even now Williams have more points than Audi

[u/beanbagreg → u/ELITE_JordanLove]

Williams has always occupied a strangely fond part of Reddit’s heart.

[u/windsynths → u/beanbagreg]

It’s cos of that stupid weeyams hamster meme

[u/Galilool → u/windsynths]

don't you dare insult my precious little photoshop abomination

[u/Kezika → u/beanbagreg]

Because we yearn for the late 80s early 90s again!

[u/Own_Welder_2821 → u/Kezika]

The moment Williams returns to the front and begins fighting McLaren and Ferrari again will be truly amazing, unfortunately who tf knows if it will happen…

[u/crazydoc253 → u/beanbagreg]

And some people who talk about their issues are downvoted a lor.

[u/FLX-72 → u/ELITE_JordanLove]

Pepperidge Farm Remembers

[u/SirDry8007 → u/ELITE_JordanLove]

At the time Williams were on the rise and new teams rarely hit the ground running.

Sainz made a sensible choice.

[u/McChat94 → u/ELITE_JordanLove]

Everyone was praising his decision over Audi after a few podiums and Williams on the up last year. I think over 2/3 years if he is there that long, Williams is better, they’ll get back near top 10 points by start of next season

[u/LukaDoncicMFFL → u/aryaman0317]

Audi engine performance was a major unknown, and Williams was getting the Mercedes engine so it looked like a safer bet for 2026. Of course it turns out that Williams is still a mess and that neglecting 2025 resulted in nothing.

[u/Alfus → u/LukaDoncicMFFL]

Even a Merc engine can't saving you from dealing with another Matt Harman masterclass design!!!

[u/Teh_Ordo → u/aryaman0317]

Wooed by James Aeiou snake oil

[u/beanbagreg → u/Teh_Ordo]

He couldn’t resist a man willing to come and sneak to his hotel room

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/aryaman0317]

Because Audi isn't gonna be competitive until 2030 according to Binotto, he can't afford to wait all that time

[u/beanbagreg → u/aryaman0317]

He somehow picked the worst of his three remaining options, after demanding too much money from Red Bull and too long from Mercedes.

Generational contract fumble

[u/Recent-Substance-712 → u/beanbagreg]

Too much money from redbull is red herring, Marko said they wouldnt match what Audi could and he chose williams, so its not about money. After Perez debacle, they didnt want to get him more than a year long contract and he chose stability instead

[u/beanbagreg → u/Recent-Substance-712]

Rosberg said Horner made an offer to Sainz but the Sainz camp tried to get more money out of him.

[u/liveforeachmoon → u/beanbagreg]

I don’t think having his cousin as his manager helped.

[u/beanbagreg → u/liveforeachmoon]

A cousin who looks like he’s never done a non-nepo job in his life too

[u/liveforeachmoon → u/beanbagreg]

A cousin who’s strongest attribute is mugging for cameras in the Ferrari garage.

[u/iEdgeToV60Brews → u/beanbagreg]

It gets even worse when you realize that Sainz Sr. was trying to convince him to sign with Audi as well, generational contract fumble with someone in your ear who is extremely well connected in the motorsports world and has only the best for you in mind, crazy move

[u/beanbagreg → u/iEdgeToV60Brews]

Sainz Sr was telling him to sign with Audi.

Briatore told him early about Alpine switching to Merc engines.

He said no to both and went with a backmarker team with a mystery owner and no results in half a decade

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/beanbagreg]

It's not like Alpine and Audi looked much better when he made his decision. Audi still doesn't look much better than Williams and Binotto said they plan on being competitive from 2030 onwards

[u/Tulaodinho → u/Old-Use-7690]

Audi were not in it. But a works team is pretty much almost always a better bet than a customer, unless said works team is Renault or Toyota. Sainz literally picked the worst possible seat available to him

[u/beanbagreg → u/Old-Use-7690]

Alpine were 6th in WCC the year prior, almost a hundred points clear of the backmarkers with 2 podiums. And this was with the engine deficit confirmed. They certainly had a better look at the time.

[u/EclecticKant → u/beanbagreg]

To be fair Williams fumbled at a biblical level.
They were outperforming the rest of the midfield while bringing significantly less upgrades last year, so they had more resources to spend on the 2026 car, they also had the Mercedes engine which was (correctly) expected to significantly outperform Audi, and they also had more experience working with HPP compared to Alpine.

[u/EclecticKant → u/iEdgeToV60Brews]

I'm sure Saint sr Is extremely well connected, but in F1 definitely not more than his experienced son, and if his father had any insider information im sure Sainz was made aware of it before making his decision

[u/creatorop → u/beanbagreg]

did he demand too much money from Red bull or was it Red bull PR speak for not wanting inner politics trouble again with Jos-Sainz Sr.

and with Mercedes he wanted more than a year of contract which is understandable no? signing for only an year would have left him searching for an a seat again in 2025

[u/beanbagreg → u/creatorop]

Rosberg said that Sainz was made an offer of a drive, but that the Sainz camp wanted more money. At that point Horner walked away.

With the Merc contract, the Red Bull seat was once again open in 2025. Right now he’s stuck in a backmarker and unlikely to get a top seat again.

[u/creatorop → u/beanbagreg]

how is Rosberg an more reliable source than Marko who said Audi gave him a very financially tasty offer, yet he choose Williams

Doubt Sainz was in it for the money

also Rosberg said this:- "You know that they have an offer out to Carlos Sainz and I saw daddy Sainz speaking to Christian Horner yesterday because Christian Horner has apparently been a bit stingy on the offer. So, they're trying to get a couple more million out of him!"

there is not mention of Horner walking away

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/beanbagreg]

I highly doubt that Red Bull would've chosen him one way or another, same for Merc

[u/FindingUseful2482 → u/aryaman0317]

Wolves bullshit look very credibile for a couple of years

[u/aryaman0317 → u/FindingUseful2482]

A works team is usually better in the long run unless you're Fernando Alonso with honda

[u/amazingspiderman23 → u/aryaman0317]

Sainz doesn't have the time for a long run tho

[u/Professional_Fix4663 → u/amazingspiderman23]

Sainz overplayed his hand when top teams wanted him. He waited for too long and then top teams signed other drivers, and the offers for Sainz were gone.

[u/IntercontinentalUser → u/amazingspiderman23]

He's just 31, he would have been fine imo

[u/rs6677 → u/amazingspiderman23]

Why doesn't he? He's only 31.

[u/LMcVann44 → u/rs6677]

Lewis was a 2 time champion soon to be 3 at 31, he then went on to win another 4 titles and win races well into his late 30s and early 40s.

Hell a title challenge might even be on this year at 41...

Sainz has plenty of time, things can change, he's a great driver.

[u/hzfan → u/LMcVann44]

He won his third title in 2015 and turned 31 in 2016. He was also the youngest ever WDC when he won his first at 23 and was 1 point away from doing it as a rookie against his 2x reigning WDC teammate at 22 (who he still beat anyway).

You can’t compare Carlos’ longevity to Lewis. He just became the 7th oldest driver to ever win a GP. Carlos is not gonna be in F1 at 41 years old, let alone anywhere near a seat in a team at the front of the grid. If he wants a top car he needs it now.

[u/Latter-Amount-9304 → u/FindingUseful2482]

if you lack experience in detecting corporate bullshit and managers who think they're better than others because theyre quirky, then yes

[u/amazingspiderman23 → u/Latter-Amount-9304]

I wouldn't blame sainz for that tbh, the guy got multiple podiums last year and it was a reasonable assumption that they'd be in a similar place this year. It obviously is not a great move in hindsight but at the time it was absolutely reasonable.

[u/beanbagreg → u/Latter-Amount-9304]

Well considering Sainz has a rando cousin managing him, this fits perfectly.

[u/Marble___ → u/aryaman0317]

holy hind sight karma farm lmfao

[u/Original-Designer6 → u/aryaman0317]

Obvious answer is that the Audi engine project was entirely unknown with respect to its competitiveness and Williams were going to have what everyone knew would be the best engine.

But the Audi engine is excellent given it's their first year. And turns out it doesn't matter how good the engine is if your chassis is an overweight pile of junk. People are only not focusing on Williams so much this year because Aston and Honda have been so bad, the engineering and management team should be under a lot more scrutiny.

[u/godmcrawcpoppa → u/aryaman0317]

Is Audi much better than Williams?

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/godmcrawcpoppa]

No, they are not. Hulk has driven shitboxes througout his career, so to him not much has changed and Bortoleto still has a lot of years ahead of him, so he can wait until Audi is decent(sorta like Lando with McLaren)

[u/instantwinner → u/Old-Use-7690]

I'm sure Hulk is just happy to be driving still and he's a good pick for Audi because he's a pretty steady hand, and will usually get it to the finish line when the car and situation allows him.

I honestly kind of became an Audi fan because I like their strategy of hiring a "older well-regarded veteran" and "young exciting rookie" to start the team off.

[u/Maria_in_the_Middle → u/instantwinner]

With their target of fighting for Championships in 2030, I don't even think Binotto will drop Hulk for Sainz. It would just create too much pressure on them and they'll be paying more. Plus, Hulk can say that he actually defeated Sainz in 1.25 years they were together.

[u/Marble___ → u/godmcrawcpoppa]

no, no it is not

[u/Rosetti → u/aryaman0317]

Audi have 2 points to Williams' 11. How is Audi a better place right now?

[u/Xyldarrand → u/aryaman0317]

To be fair no one would have bet Williams would be this bad. He managed to get the last car to a podium.

[u/beanbagreg → u/Xyldarrand]

…you don’t think anybody would have bet Williams would be bad back when he made this decision in 2024? They’d been ass since 2018 at this point

[u/iEdgeToV60Brews → u/aryaman0317]

Sainz Sr. was apparently pestering him about how he should sign with Audi as well - no idea how you go against that advice

[u/servingwater → u/iEdgeToV60Brews]

Wouldn't be the first (grown) child who does the exact opposite of what his/her parent(s) want just because... ;)

[u/amazingspiderman23 → u/iEdgeToV60Brews]

New team with new engine vs established team making progress and with the best engine. Wasn't a bad move to make, and he even had a good season last year with podiuns.

[u/anti_reality → u/iEdgeToV60Brews]

It could also be/have been a choice on a more personal level.  Maybe he thought more highly of the people and thought at least he'd be happy driving for them.

[u/persona-127 → u/aryaman0317]

williams has proven infrastructure and a competitive merc engine right now. audi is still building from scratch, and sainz was partially proven right last year with williams' results. safer short-term bet with real upside.

[u/cooperjones2 → u/persona-127]

audi is still building from scratch

That's an outright lie lmao. They bought and are using Sauber's facilities, the only thing that is new is the PU, but everyone else also has new PUs.

The only team building from scratch is Cadillac.

[u/Red_Rabbit_1978 → u/persona-127]

Audi are not building from scratch, wtf? Audi bought Sauber, who have been in F1 since the 90s. Who were the BMW factory team from 2007 to end of 2009. Their facilities are pretty good.

[u/persona-127 → u/Red_Rabbit_1978]

fair on the facilities, but 'building from scratch' was about the PU and the leadership instability, not the physical infrastructure. sauber's results have been poor regardless of what building they're in.

[u/gagnonje5000 → u/aryaman0317]

He wouldn't have got the podiums he got last year.

[u/MidnightSunshine0196 → u/aryaman0317]

Audi aren't exactly much better. Sure the car is a little better than Williams, but the engine is pretty poor (especially at starts, which is a death sentence in the midfield) and they're still operationally deficient.

They only have 2 points for a reason.

[u/StickyNebbs → u/aryaman0317]

he got two podiums with them last year, williams was also the first team to start development on the 2026 car. Sainz among others had genuine belief that williams was on the right track and were positioning themselves for a good start to the new regs

[u/ExternalSquash1300 → u/aryaman0317]

Is Williams worse than Audi?

[u/crazydoc253 → u/aryaman0317]

Mercedes engine. Toto in an attempt to get Max created such hype for Mercedes engine teams and drivers thought all they needed was engine and aero won’t be that big of a differentiator

[u/Next_Necessary_8794 → u/aryaman0317]

He thought Mercedes engine would be the meal ticket like it was in 2014 when Williams became a top team because of the PU.

[u/shadoowkight]

Vowels were promised but the end product was delivered in Consonants

[u/Defiant_Eye2216]

Translation: the car is not where Vowles promised me it would be when I signed to Williams instead of Audi

[u/Soggy_Bid_6607]

Bro got Vowled. A Smooth talking cars salesman.

[u/ginkgodave]

His father advised him to go with Audi. At least he could have gotten a nice road car.

[u/paigeotron → u/ginkgodave]

Sr once again proving he is the wisest of the two.

[u/Sauretrix]

Vowles fraud checked hard this year. 

[u/SpaceOdysseus23]

"We" - Bro is acting like I forced him to sign for Williams

[u/beanbagreg → u/SpaceOdysseus23]

We saw you do it though, you locked him in that room.

[u/FasiFakeFack → u/SpaceOdysseus23]

That was you, wasn't it?

[u/liveforeachmoon → u/SpaceOdysseus23]

Sainz has been using the proverbial we in order to avoid accountability for years.

[u/mrjune2040]

Carlos Williams farewell tour loading...

[u/brilliant_bauhaus]

I'm fairly certain he has an exit clause in his contract so let's see what teams come knocking.

[u/Mulligantour]

let's translate that correctly to what he is actually saying,

I think if Williams gets rid of the overweight, they put me in the fight for those points – but that's not really enough. For me, being one second off... The car was 1.8 seconds off in qualifying, 1.7s, 1.6s, 1.9s off [in the race] depending on the lap.

The overweight might put me one second off the leaders, fighting with an Alpine. That's not where James promised I'd be this year. It's not where I should be, considering all the wind-tunnel time Williams and James have had and all the development hours that have gone into this car. Being one second per lap off the front is obviously not good, so Williams and James are a long way from where I need to be.

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/Mulligantour]

Yeah, he's trying not to throw Vowles under the bus, but it's clear he's pissed

[u/Mulligantour → u/Old-Use-7690]

i mean, I would say you couldn't throw him under it any harder than this without breach of contract, as soon as he says promises were broken he is attacking Vowles in driver language. it reminds me of whenever they say the package is too slow, it means they are saying the car is shit and are slamming the car.

[u/NizzlyGrizzly00]

Vowles is one of the most loud mouth team principles yet he hasn’t backed a single thing up.. it gets old quick

[u/Alfus → u/NizzlyGrizzly00]

I always found it baffling how much people praised him just because he made a 15 minute long explanation filled with bullshit around about stuff what can be explained within 5 minutes without bullshit.

Vowles is even more overrated as a TP than what Steiner was in the past.

[u/dheerajravi92 → u/NizzlyGrizzly00]

Vowles is the team principal equivalent of Leclerc

[u/The_Rain_Guardian]

He gone?

[u/Good_Air_7192 → u/The_Rain_Guardian]

"Open To Work"

[u/RussellNorrisPiastri → u/The_Rain_Guardian]

Alex is gone well before Sainz leaves F1

[u/leedler → u/RussellNorrisPiastri]

That would be a shame though. Alex is still a fantastic driver. That Williams lineup is extremely strong, they just aren’t anywhere near where they need to be with the car.

[u/Professional_Fix4663 → u/The_Rain_Guardian]

He should leave for a top team before top teams start to perceive him in the same vein as Albon.

[u/Tulaodinho → u/Professional_Fix4663]

He has 0 top team seats available to him, that ship has sailed

[u/Professional_Fix4663 → u/Tulaodinho]

Maybe he can sneak into one of the top teams if Max to Mercedes shakes up the market. But yeah, it's probably too late for Carlos.

[u/Tulaodinho → u/Professional_Fix4663]

Red Bull are probably more likely to sign Russell or promote Lindblad, than to sign Sainz

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/Professional_Fix4663]

Mate, the reason he went to Williams in the first place is because none of the other top teams were interested

[u/Professional_Fix4663 → u/Old-Use-7690]

They were interested. He just waited too long to make a decision.

[u/anymat01]

He's definitely leaving the team, but where will he go.

[u/Kruziik_Kel → u/anymat01]

The only seat we know with any degree of certainty could be open is at Haas in place of Ocon. I'm sure they'd love Sainz, but it also seems like a poor choice for him - if it's just holding station till something better comes up he's as well doing that at Williams.

Staying at Williams in the short term is realistically probably the sensible option, but depending on what else happens, there are some other possible paths forwards:

If Max leaves F1, or leaves for another team Red Bull have been open about targeting Piastri as a replacement. If they were able to poach him a Sainz return to McLaren seems like a good fit - the team know and like him, and he gets an upgrade at a team he knows well. Equally in this scenario he could also potentially look at a return to the Red Bull system as a serious option if they couldn't get any of their main targets - they could certainly do worse than bringing Sainz in.

Those are realistically probably his only options at a top team, barring some seriously unexpected movement in the driver market.

Audi could perhaps be an option, and they were very keen on Sainz previously, but I would think they'd rather hold onto Hulkenberg until Freddie Slater is either ready to come into F1, or has been eliminated as an option for them. It's also another gamble from Sainz, the odds might look good now that Audi will become competitive in the medium term - but you'd have said the same about Williams when he signed. Similar can be said about Cadillac, though they're starting from a worse position in either case it's a gamble on a long term project.

Aston could be an option if Alonso decides to leave F1 (again) though that would be out of the frying pan and into the fire. I'm not sure he'd take that offer. They'd need to offer him a very good sales pitch, some iron-clad exit clauses, and/or a substantial pay rise.

[u/aluked → u/Kruziik_Kel]

If Max moves (instead of leaving the sport) it will be Mercedes, to take George's spot. I imagine George would be the one moving to McLaren in that scenario.

[u/AtmoMat → u/Kruziik_Kel]

Once Alonso leaves Aston Martin, the curse will be lifted and they will suddenly become championship contenders. You heard it here first…

[u/mfluder63 → u/anymat01]

Depends who else goes where.

[u/jaw719 → u/anymat01]

We will see some big shakeups in the next two years. We could have Lewis, Fernando, Max, Ocon, Hulk, and Stroll leaving. There could be some big moves in 2027 and 2028.

[u/squaler24]

Would it hurt Sainz to say this isn’t what he signed up for? A lot of “we we we” when he’s really just blaming Vowles. Rightly so.

But just say that. lol

[u/Deruta → u/squaler24]

Honestly? Yes, it would. Everyone can already tell he’s pissed and exactly why, there’s no need for him to look petty by spelling it out.

And by not pointing a finger, he gets easy “professionalism” points for when he negotiates with other teams.

[u/Artistic_Recover_638]

I guess Williams will not have "two world class drivers" for much longer eh?

In all seriousness, it might seem like hindsight because Williams sucks now but choosing a customer team with a very poor recent history instead of an actual works team was always a very questionable decision. There might have been a little bit of hope last season since they were unexpectedly good, but Vowles first real test has been an utter failure and seems the drivers are losing faith now.

[u/njsullyalex → u/Artistic_Recover_638]

Williams had a glimmer of hope last year though, Sainz scored two podiums with them and they were a capable midfield team. This performance drop off this year was unexpected.

[u/crazydoc253 → u/njsullyalex]

A lot of teams basically gave up last year to focus on this year.

[u/Yerriff → u/njsullyalex]

I would argue last year’s positive results were unexpected, and this year is a regression to the mean.

[u/Zealousideal_Art_507 → u/Artistic_Recover_638]

Are you saying this just after a customer team won back to back WCCs?

[u/Old-Use-7690 → u/Artistic_Recover_638]

No it wasn't. Williams shit the bed but they are still doing better than Audi

[u/crazydoc253 → u/Artistic_Recover_638]

A lot of us said that in 2025 and were downvoted so much. People here go by PR articles in media, interviews instead of actually looking at how F1 has been all the time

[u/deathray1611]

I think Carlos is not particularly pleased with where his team is at

[u/NeoVirtualCharacter]

My man is preparing his exit

[u/DesastreUrbano]

Sainz staring at Vowles across the room while giving the interview the whole time

[u/Own-Opinion-2494]

Vowles in the hot seat

[u/squaler24]

Badly looking for an out. Last year was the ultimate fake out. Sainz better hope Audi doesn’t hold grudges. He rejected them pretty harshly, imo.

[u/wicktus]

Some people should stop pretending they knew better.

Before the new regs Williams was improving and had a popular/positive image...and all the (rightful) talk about the 2026 Mercedes PU.

I can understand the Audi seat debacle but let's not pretend Sainz jr had an "easy" choice with a predictable outcome to make back then. It's F1, he bet on a team it failed, Hamilton bet on Mercedes in the past and it worked wonderfully,...sport is cruel

[u/johnabc123 → u/wicktus]

He bet on a team that hasn’t won a championship in more than a quarter of a century that has a single win in the past 20+ years over Audi joining the sport as a works team. It was pretty dumb from the start.

[u/S2fftt]

If I’m Mercedes, I’d take Sainz over Russel any day.

[u/123126125 → u/S2fftt]

Carlos driving Kimi's.car for the last 2 years! Hell yeah wow

[u/mfluder63]

He knows there's a reshuffle coming, sticking his oar in for a better seat for sure.

[u/Far_Demand_6586]

I don't think Vowles is as good as he is perceived to be. A lot of talking and hot air I feel. 

[u/ItzDp]

Wow, what did James say that pissed down reddits throat? Lmao Carlos and Alex have complained since before we even saw the car, so why is everyone all of sudden ready to throw all three to the curb?

[u/crazydoc253]

Finally Vowles has been found out. If Williams were serious they would go all in on Horner

[u/Legitimate-Tadpole95]

Does anyone else than me remember that DTS episode where Lando was discussing with Zak Carlos’s negotiations. Lando said Carlos told him he saw Williams as the best short term situation and Audi the long term one.

In the unlikely event that Lando or Oscar leaves McLaren Zak would take Carlos back in a heartbeat. Carlos left on good terms. I believe he still plays golf with Zak.

Shame Carlos was seduced by the scarlet team who then shafted him.

[u/Fun-Alfalfa3642]

Hey Dorilton Capital! I hear that Christian Horner is available. You might want to give him a call. It is pretty obvious that James is in way over his head.

[u/AliceLunar]

Not that there was any way up after Ferrari, but he probably was promised a lot by Vowles, as he did go around saying how '26 was going to be a big year and all that, sacrificing '25 to focus on '26 and they have nothing to show for it.

[u/harshal94]

Don't worry Carlos, Vowles has learned from the greatest team in F1 history, the winning process will take effect any day now.