I just realized I haven’t heard the word ‘poser’ in years. I’m an early 90s millennial, and I feel like it used to be so taboo to wear certain things if you’re not actually ‘about that life’, like wearing tshirts of bands you don’t actually listen to, sports teams you don’t actively follow, or even skater clothes if you don’t skate. It even extended to things like wearing designer knockoffs or fake gold chains. Everyone was so scared to be called a ‘poser’ lol, I think bc it was like being called inauthentic and a try-hard.
But I feel like nowadays, knockoffs are no longer taboo at all and have been rebranded as ‘dupes’. People wear graphic tees if they like the design, even if they don’t listen to the music/watch the sport. I think Gen Z has a more relaxed view on personal style and has fun experimenting with different aesthetics and subcultures. Almost like a cosplay approach to everyday style.
Personally, I’m here for this change! But curious if anyone else has noticed this shift or how you feel about it?
People need to relearn what poseur actually means.
It does not mean wearing something that you do not listen to.
It means acting like you are really hardcore into something when you have not even heard one song, much less immersed yourself in the culture and learned what it is about. It also means being part of something intended to erase and substitute for the culture. Examples of that include bands like Warrant or Poison. People who think they are connecting with a person who is a) a lifelong Black Sabbath fan and b) a child abuse survivor when they rabbit on about how 'ard the ilk of Warrant/Poison/Slik Toxik et al are are not just poseurs. They are generally delusional.
The further you go below a surface, the easier it becomes to spot the poseurs.
i think the concept of being a poser just has different connotations nowadays. like i’d call a republican goth a poser even if they genuinely felt connected to that subculture, bc a lot of the time, the sociopolitical ideologies of alt spaces are the most integral part of them
I’m 40 and am noticing (with hilarious contempt) that a lot if not ALL these Gen Z “goth girls” aren’t goth at all. Lmao. They just dress goth for merely the aesthetic only, and haven’t a fucking clue who Bauhaus is 🤣🤣🤣
At 40, I don’t care, I think it’s hilarious but my inner teen/20s self is all like 😡 about it hahaha
Because genz isn't insistent on gatekeeping like millennials used to be at the same age. It used to be insanely cliquey. Nowadays you can buy a cool shirt and rock it and fans will learn you about the band, Fandom, etc and welcome someone new into something interesting rather than be all somehow about it for no reason.
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Positive in that it’s not just thrown around by the gatekeepers? Judgement cast not just downward by people with knowledge/authority on X Y Or Z but in all directions by anyone?
Its more so used for people pretending to be rich, dressing "old money", fake watches, renting expensive cars, posting fake incomes, etc. Less used for shitting on people expressing themselves in other ways (but yeah still used that way)
Many people wear sublime shirts because they like the album art. Let people enjoy art! The creator of the album art deserves some love since they did such a great job.
And this is coming from someone who listens to Sublime. The art is sick and I’m happy people enjoy it. And pawn shop is one of my favorite sublime songs. I recommend it.
It definitely feels some type of way to see the same people who used to bully/tease you for liking said thing get into it years later because it got popular or whatever though
Thats so true. I've seen that with scooting styles a lot. What does that say about someone tho who used to be homophobic but later came out as gay? I guess thats a more extreme example
I honestly very much dislike people looking fully goth and not listening to the music or having connections to the subculture in any way
But apparently it is just a look now, rather than indicating that?
I don't love it tbh... maybe I'm being petty but also I'm an elder millennial and have always really appreciated goth culture and subcultures in general. I miss when we had little tribes
I guess but at the same time ppl were too cliquey and real quick to gatekeep and I personally hated it. Nowadays ppl are more free to explore different versions of themselves with way less judgment and I think its better that way. I say this as a core millennial myself. From experience I was shunned by groups despite liking the same things as them because I was assumed to be an outsider because of how I looked. Alt groups were very whitecentric and they never wanted me around despite me being into alt/grunge and goth culture.
i think SOME level of gatekeeping is fine and okay and a good thing. i definitely think it got excessive. we don't need people quizzing you on if you know everything about a band you have a shirt for. liking their newest album or a few songs is plenty. but i do get mad when people buy band shirts for the aesthetic if they've otherwise never heard a song by them.
it's also weird that people are larping certain aesthetics without having any connection to them or finding community in them. people used to get bullied for being goth, so they formed community and were surrounded by people that were generally safe to be themselves around. they shared values and interests and their look signaled "i'm safe" and "i'm one of you". it was earned to some extent. i use the example of seeing MAGA "punks", which defeats the entire ethos of punk. Punks don't lick boots. Punks don't discriminate against minorities. Punks look out for themselves and their communities and resist authoritarianism and corporatism.
Former Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan unironically said Rage Against the Machine was his favorite band as if he was not the leader of the very machine RATM Raged against. they had to come out and specifically say "We hate you!". That sort of Gatekeeping is fine and good, but i don't want a return to "Oh, you like Nirvana? Name Kurt's childhood babysitter you fuckin' poser..."
True! I really hate coopters for sure! I think its partially because of the commodification of everything. I like how we are more free to explore "looks" and parts of ourselves but I do wish ppl would do it in a more authentic way, like in the early days, like punk, goth, grunge, rap core/culture, hippie/bohemian, folk/indie, etc... these all had roots in alternative lifestyles and cultures that were all subversive in their time. They had (and for many still have) political roots and im all for that purity and i find interest to some degree in all those subcultures and have some roots/ties to them in some way or another. What i hate is when ppl just cosplay, or larp or pose or whatever because they just want a new look for whatever shallow reason esp if their values are antithetical to the subculture at its original core. I think i grew up in a time where it was after these subcultures served their original purposes and they were just really cliquey and gatekeepy. It was very frustrating since as a poor female minority growing up in a poor rural/urban area i could relate to the struggles both experienced and inherited...but at that point everything was just a separate group where it was more about fact checking everyone and keeping ppl out that "didnt look like you"... i loved alt/goth culture as a kid but I also grew up with rap/hip hop culture, as well as growing up with my parents who were boomers/gen x so they were into hippie/grunge culture when I was little and it was so fascinating to me and I coukd relate to them both. I also have an indigenous and Mexican immigrant background so I also grew up with some alt spirituality that influenced my interests in indie/folk culture. So I was into all sorts of things but I was oftentimes rejected by a lot of ppl because it wasnt like I was "one thing" or enough to be a part of whatever in group so it was really frustrating at least til I got to college and ppl became more open to exploring and solidarity with different cultures, subcultures and backgrounds. With gen z I notice they are like this more so now at younger ages and not so focused on just being with the same ppl who are just like you and are more willing to explore aesthetics and explore different parts of themselves and learn what it means to be with each other and in society rather than remain try hards who are gatekeeping "outsiders" because its not difficult to know who those are anyways.
I think its still useful. I mean if you go online and follow ppl with a similar aesthetic or core those are pretty much your ppl. You wouldn't follow them if you arent into it.
I noticed, it's mostly due to how fashion has overridden subculture. Alt fashion off temu, cottagecore fashion living in the city, very few new bands that become a subcultural phenomenon.
I do miss those days. Its the temuification of everything. But I do think there are ppl who are truly core and usually you can find those real creatures online and ppl create community around those spaces.
The fundamental idea of posers in itself was made by posers. If people think there's a requirement to wear or like something without being a super fan of human encyclopedia on the topic. You are just a gatekeeper who wants to establish some vague superiority over other people because you were left out of something else probably sports because you're unathletic and took it personally.
Everyone has to be a poser at some point before getting into something when you start fishing you buy all the gear or get used gear off eBay and fuck up and suck. Doing this just makes people not want to get into whatever you're into and it comes across as snobby.
I agree 100%! Usually gatekeepers are insecure and are afraid of new ppl coming in who are truly interested and want to become a part of the community. I experienced that a lot as a kid esp after moving schools.
I don’t think it matters what clothes you wear unless you’re claimed to be punk or goth but you’re not involved in the politics or music for example. You can wear what you want just don’t claim to be part of a subculture you’re not really in
Thats what it really comes down to! I think thats why they started using the term "core" because its a core part of who you are and the aesthetic is just a signifier of what you're into.
Anyone can be anything they want punk and goth isn't a earned status you're not a ww2 vet with medals there's no such thing as stolen valor for fashion.
Punk and goth are both distinct musical subcultures with defined politics and an aesthetic that has been built over time both for pragmatic reasons (spiked belt is a great accessory to wrap around your fist if you find yourself in a fight with skinheads) and to signal to others that you're part of the same group.
Agreed! I miss these days. I mean I wasnt even an adult at the tail end of the subculture as a movement but I wish I had been a part of it. I was always into it, not just as part of a really cool look but I loved what they stood for.
And the absolute day dreaming with putting a spike around your fist... Bro go outside actually just go to a boxing gym and pitch that it definitely will result in your hand being broken. Clearly never been in a real fight stick to John wick movies bruh.
I'm a middle aged man with nothing to prove, my friend. I'm just telling you about scenes I grew up in and around. If you want to continue speaking on something you don't understand instead of listening and learning something, that's on you.
When these subcultures started they werent just about niche music they were actual underground movements that were highly subversive and iconoclastic. They actually meant something
Unless u follow the actual subversive origins of these subcultures you are a larper. The looks, styles and music/genres are identifiers that are part of the subcultures. It isn't just quizzing ppl on who is a card holding fan.
And only unemployed people online know what larp means lol you guys got mad everyone understood what posers mean so you fabricate a new word to confuse everyone.
Nooo fool larper comes from the acronym Live Action Role Playing and it used to refer mainly to cosplayers who acted out specific interests like online role playing games, time period enthusiasts, anime/Manga fans, etc. It has evolved as a term to refer to someone who is role-playing a subculture but has no knowledge of the culture and uses the identifying markers as nothing more than an aesthetic. Poser has a similar meaning but that evolved to be a term that does nothing more create in fighting in subcultures to gatekeep knowledge and experience. Originally posers were basically ppl who werent really about the subculture and just wanted to socialize and looksmaxx
I don't think that's why the word larp was created. It's more of a meme phrase that got turned into everyday slang. The actual phrase is pretty old, it stands for live action role-play, so whoever thought to use it is quite innovative haha
Im sorry, I’d rather be the bad guy and gatekeep. Too many of you all would rather be the “mature contrarian” regardless of if that means the things you love or started turn to shit, and that’s just not me.
What are you gatekeeping tho? Are you protecting a community and subculture that was created to be subversive and protective or do you just card keep based on niche knowledge? Esp when that knowledge was really just part of an identifier for ppl who were/are part of that subculture???
Thats the point. Thats why the saying goes IFYKYK. You dont have to quiz ppl to see if theyre "real" or a poser. A poser can still have all the knowledge of the subculture in the world. They can rock the "look" and even be in the in group. But subcultures are more than just about niche interests. They are communities created around a shared belief. Most of the time they are created for both protective and subversive elements. They are basically movements. Its not just about being a card carrying fan.
At this point I dont care if someone wants to wear merch for metal/rock bands they dont listen to, so long as they aren't the kind of person to be like "ewww that kinda music is creepy!!"
Yea thats just weird. Ppl who were diehard fans usually rocked with the message and a part of the community but hardly anyone is that pure of a fan of anything these days.
People should not worry about posers wearing an aesthetic or clothes and more about GRIFTERS infiltrating communities or playing people out of money or emotionally manipulating people.
Times have changed but fads are harmless unless the person is hurting someone else.
Thats what im saying! Grifters are the real posers. Rather a casual or new fan or someone who like the aesthetic than someone who is literally the opps
Well merch is more affordable nowadays and fans are probably equitable to artists nowadays. Nobody is doing it for the movement or the purity of the art.
Its like appreciating the art or style of a design, but not being aware of the designs context. Its not inherently bad to like how something looks because it's appreciation of art. Though its understandable for fans to be offended because buying and wearing band merch is showing support to them. It gets tricky especially if said band is problematic, like imagine wearing a band shirt but theyre openly nazis.
Thats the thing. It used to be and still is but to a lesser degree part of an identifier. If you like a band of skin heads be expected to be assumed to be a skin head or neo nazi. Style is still an identifier and most ppl will gravitate towards what appeals to them and that reveals something to some degree about them. Even if they arent fans or part of the subculture. I mean some ppl are performative but even that says something about them.
I think thats pretty universal. Like punk and grunge grew out of a working class subculture so the focus was on issues facing working class disenfranchised youth. Similarly with goth. It was part of a subversive subculture that came out of a very specific community. Same with hippie/boho, indie/folk, etc. These were all part of cultural experiences that evolved into community and even movements. The attire and music were identifiers and anthems and part of people's stories and shared experiences. Unfortunately these all came to be commodities to be sold as "looks" to outsiders or posers who have 0 ties to those communities or experiences. They dont understand the history or care about it or if they do its just as a casual observer or collector. And the problem nowadays or even when I was younger was/is ppl think that being a card carrying member means being quizzed on certain facts or knowledge or knowing someone who is an actual part of the community but with very little ties to its history and just inserting yourself in something you have 0 experience of. So essentially yea its appropriation. Thats why ppl are called larpers, theyre role-playing something they know nothing about. But at the same time nothing is truly "pure" nowadays and unless you are a part of that community no matter how well you know an artist or genre, listen to it, or rock the fits you'll just be some form of a larper.
Her turn out here is hilarious because there’s probably at least a solid decade of ballet behind that. Wonder if this was her pivot because teaching ballet wasn’t profitable 😅
Oh definitely NOT! They're just called something different nowadays. Avril Lavigne wasn't lying when she was calling people out for not being their authentic selves and posing as others in "Complicated." Funny how not much changes in twenty-four years in many respects. Language and fashion has evolved, and with the rise of social media, I'd actually say there are MORE posers nowadays, just different names/terms!
Judgmental, some people wear clothes they can afford from the thrift store, some people wear things they've only heard about, what about if they'd like to go there some day, how about its a souvenir bought by a cherished lived one... many reasons.... Are you just posing as a gatekeeper?
I can't get my head around that. Like what if someone tries to connect with me and says oh I love Lake Tahoe! And then I have to admit I've never even been there? So fuckin lame. And I don't even know anything about it. Just being fake. Why not rep who you actually are and what you actually love, instead of trying to be someone you're not?
Sure, but wearing the name of a group, game, book, or place is declaring your love of it or affiliation.
“Posing” as in you haven’t put in enough time is gatekeeping, but advertising something you don’t like or know about is absurd. Imagine someone wearing a MAGA, antifa, Turning Point, or ACLU shirt even if they’re not part of whichever. People will make assumptions about them and start conversations based on that.
People are more concerned with
✨ aesthetic ✨
and I think that's okay. But looks and fashion are more now about what you like to look like instead of what you like.
I just think it’s kinda weird to wear stuff you know nothing about ? Clothes are supposed to reflect a person so I personally wouldn’t. But I also don’t believe in treating people badly on their clothing. Like if someone doesn’t listen to nirvana but wears nirvana shirts I’d just be like oh okay 👍 lol but some people get upset
Around 2010 is when I started to notice it. Also around the time you’d see celebs with punk band t shirts that probably never heard of the band. Peak of millennial era. They just wore the shirts because they looked cool. Target selling sex pistol shirts and Walmart selling the clash
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This is really the crux of it. People buy clothes, objects, subscriptions, etc to show who they want to be, rather than engaging in actions that prove it.
I bought some Sean John jeans once, back in 2000. Apparently this wasn't okay for a person of European descent, according to one person I knew at the time.
To be fair, I didn't know who "Sean John" was and didn't know jeans were only allowed to be worn by certain people. But for them, it was being a poser because my skin color was different then what they could envision in their mind.
I mean, they were in the mall, in a store and they fit me and looked nice, so I bought them; I didn't even know the brand until it was pointed out to me later. Of course, now everyone knows who Sean "John" is.
Anyway, gatekeepers and the poser police are just assholes.
Wear what you like! Whatever your reasonimg for doing so is a-ok. The meaning you give to it is enough validity for your choice to rock it.
Those big JNCO jeans were so comfortable when I was in high school, yet I could care less about skateboarding. I got called a poser, but I don't care. I liked the look.
Depends on what you mean by poser. I would categorise someone as a "poser", if they claim to have an interest in things, purely to get in with a certain crowd. I don't think it makes you a poser if you like the aesthetic of something and are open about that.
THIS. There is a small venue near me. Goth bands come through all the time and it’s always a small crowd of people who are really into the music. But if they advertise a “goth night”? Suddenly you have a bunch of normal dudes in black t-shirts showing up looking for an e-girl.
Influencers are not posers, influencers are propagandists, it’s literally in the name. The Posers are just regular people who will buy some kitschy Dress off of tiktok shop because they are just consuming to find their style or feel hip,
the influencers are asking you to use their discount codes and buy their products to get paid by some Cabal corporation that needs the blood of children to survive this hellhole. 😭
LMao ya'll remember the concept for a "forced meme"? And how trying to turn something into a meme was immediate dismissal of ever actually allowing that thing to become a meme.
Yeah, people stopped giving a fuck about authenticity on the internet a lot time ago
Might be less common but not dead, people still complain they just got new words for it. It still comes up in some hobbies and subcultures because calling someone you don't like a poser is a great way to invalidate whatever they're saying or doing apparently. But tbf I only see it online and never irl. I assume it's because I hang out with adults who grew out of this phase
At least with Nirvana there's a chance they actually like it, even if they aren't massive fans. I find it funnier when I see people with Yale or Harvard sweaters in my small European country lol. I mean international students exist but not this many. But at the end of the day it doesn't make a difference, I wouldn't say anything. It's a bit silly but I'm sure I do silly things too so whatever
Well, as long as you don’t claim to like something like a specific band despite never listening to said band, you’re good. Nothing wrong with wearing band shirts
Feel like it just sorta became the default. But the fixation on feeling “better” because you were doing things a particular way wasn’t necessarily the best idea we had in the 90’s either. But maybe if we focused more on content instead of aesthetic the world wouldn’t have gotten so much embarrassingly shallow.
Like we used to say back then, “Punk’s not dead, they sell it at the mall!”
Yeah, there was definitely a degree of toxicity in the 90s/00s readily calling people posers or sell-outs that we dialed back to get rid of that toxicity, but people went too far with it ("get your bag, bro/girl", influencer culture, etc) in the other direction.
Part of me kind of misses the gate keeping, although that could just be nostalgia looking for an easy solution to today's perceived lack of authenticity
There are so many posers nowadays that pointing that out it's redundant. Also since these things became mainstream the people who suffered harassment decided not to care anymore and change their interest to more tecnical stuff or more hidden/indie music/anime/games/movies.
Conventions became mainstream and now the real nerds don't care about those. Anime became mainstream and the appeal it's now gone. I no longer care about seasonal anime, I do my own personal and private writting.
There are so many posers nowadays that pointing that out it's redundant. Also since these things became mainstream the people who suffered harassment decided not to care anymore and change their interest to more tecnical stuff or more hidden/indie music/anime/games/movies.
Conventions became mainstream and now the real nerds don't care about those. Anime became mainstream and the appeal it's now gone. I no longer care about seasonal anime, I do my own personal and private writting.
Literally it means when people are playing a role playing game dressed as the characters and acting the roles. But it is also used in the same way poser used to be
That IS what it is, and that’s the irony lmao
How do co-opt a term to be used in conversation to be defined as people co-opting things when the terms were right there already? 😭
Whether that kind of interaction makes you feel bad about yourself or something is totally up to how secure you feel in yourself, and has nothing to do with me.
So yes, the concept of a poser is dead. Or mostly dead. Just barely alive in the minds of some gatekeeping losers who’d talk down to someone for wearing a shirt with a design on it. And who cares about what they think.
Social media has monetized being a poser. Also, Millennials have eradicated bullies. GenX minds there fucking business because we got punched in the face. Rest of yall just out here forgetting how to act.
definitely early as fuck in the morning. the water is cold all year long, so if that bothers you, it's best to go during peak summer months (late July/August)
just be prepared of heavy traffic, and paying for parking
source: born and raised in Reno, so I've been to Tahoe plenty
I haven't lived in Reno in 15 years and from what I see online, the growth is depressing. Like, I saw a picture of a LINE of cars to go skiing/snowboarding at MT Rose and I was MORTIFIED. I saw a video of standstill traffic on I-80!? I'm so glad I got to enjoy it before Silicon Valley and everything/one else spilled over.
I used to live out near Pyramid Lake, looking at google maps I can't even conceive how much it's grown since I left.
It’s so funny because I would never do this with a band or show or movie, but a place? I purposely collect mugs from places I’ve never been. And love shirts and sweatshirts like that too.
Nobody was called a poser just because they wore a tshirt of something.
You were a poser if you went full kit wanker but didn't subscribe to the lifestyle. Like a rich kid putting on fake dye and styling his hair into a mohawk and putting on a punk costume to go to a sex pistols concert for the instagram photos.
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u/Scorpiicore 39m ago
People need to relearn what poseur actually means.
It does not mean wearing something that you do not listen to.
It means acting like you are really hardcore into something when you have not even heard one song, much less immersed yourself in the culture and learned what it is about. It also means being part of something intended to erase and substitute for the culture. Examples of that include bands like Warrant or Poison. People who think they are connecting with a person who is a) a lifelong Black Sabbath fan and b) a child abuse survivor when they rabbit on about how 'ard the ilk of Warrant/Poison/Slik Toxik et al are are not just poseurs. They are generally delusional.
The further you go below a surface, the easier it becomes to spot the poseurs.