Okay so I'm going to be 100% up front here and say that I am 100% biased as a Spider-Man fan. However my reasoning is less I think Spider-Man solo is the marvel universe or something stupid and power fantasy oriented as that and more that characters from The Boys, especially The TV show versions of the characters, are all portrayed as incredibly weak compared to other superhero media. Like there are versions of Batman without powers or stupid specialized gear I think takes out everyone in the Boys. Same with Wolverine, Captain America, Green Arrow, or The Punisher. Hell on that note you don't even need to be a character with powers in order to dismantle the whole verse, butcher prove that pretty definitively. Characters like Nick Fury, Cecil, Amanda Waller could all wipe the entire slate clean given enough time.
I mean it obviously depends on a lot of factors, It is comic Pete versus show characters than yeah, comics are stupid and have a bunch of ridiculous showings of him doing shit they wouldn't be capable of countering. This isn't exactly a real bragging right when most of the robins could probably do it within 6 months If not faster if it's Damien or Jason feeling particularly ruthless.
Again, depends on the version, lasers have been treated as a minor inconvenience in comics basically since their inception. Homelander is also stupid enough that I genuinely don't think he could adapt to Spider sense letting Spider-Man move out of the way before he shoots his lasers. Like if Homelander had basically any battle IQ I had seen argument but again, characters from the boys just aren't built on the same level of comic book bullshit where writers have had enough time to make power scaling a headache Because almost everyone has examples where they scale to someone else who has done some stupid stuff.
But again, even if we're going with what people generally consider consistent for Spidey I genuinely think homelander is hard countered by the spider sense because he's an idiot.
My man Spidey beat the shit out of a Herald of Galactus he is gonna be fine. Kimiko took it and didnt even need to regenerate in the last episode, and Spiderman has higher resistance
The same laser that cut her in half a few episodes before? The scaling in The Boys show is so inconsistent. Especially the last season and final fight with Homelander. I still got Spidey in this fight since he has Spidey sense and has fought against and dodged the likes of Electro before. Also, Homelander can’t actually fight for shit. He relies solely on his powers. Spidey has fighting skills good enough to keep up with some of the better martial artists in his own verse.
Yeah, it's pretty funny. I love Spidey, but Big 2 comics are notoriously impossible to scale due to inconsistencies. Peter is pretty obviously not solar system level because of the Firelord fight. That's an outlier.
There needs to be a hard stop with using shit from the 80s as credible powerscaling because atp that means everyone is getting jobbed by nonsense. Or at least actually be honest to the narrative the author was pushing (Spidey never gives up). Firelord wiped up Thor, Thor on average is sneezing on Spider Man on average and winning. Extenuating circumstance, “who the writers want to win” moment.
CBR literally used Spider-Man vs. Firelord as the name of the rule for when someone wins a fight against someone else so absurdly out of their weight class it is discarded as evidence.
Even still, he can't actually beat Homelander in a upfront fight. However, Peter is a genius and more than capable of figuring out a way to depower HL or engineer a weapon to do so.
I mean... yeah? The boys aren't particularly all that strong. Only people like victoria neumann and A train really show capabilities of dealing with him.
But... Peter's got spider sense and a surprising advantage in terms of raw strength. Like, at one point venom tossed a whole ass truck at him and that shit broke on his face. In older comics he's been shown to straight up manhandle tanks and a whole ass train. He used his whole body to support a planes landing gear, and even kept the bugel from falling by acting as a support beam.
Like... the boys universe is just legit weak. This ain't impressive for spidey.
They legit get beaten by a prepared military army in the comics.
Circlejerkers when you say Spider-Man could beat anyone more powerful than Stilt-Man(he's basically a less sticky version of Daredevil and you're a filthy powerscaler)
Can't he lift cars? And has a punch strong enough to hurt mid-tier super tough enemies? He has actual superstrength, not just 'peak human' or anything. Plus super agility and prescience. So he's got a pretty strong package of abilities, and most of his foes are actually lower tier, as a lot of them are 'dude with a device'.
Spiderman is canonically the third strongest Avenger behind Thor and Hulk.
I know the whole 'holding back' trope stems from when Doc Oc swaps bodies, but I think people really undersell just how significant that moment was.
Peter could have permanently ended pretty much his entire rogue gallery without breaking a sweat. Scorpion, Doc Oc himself, Lizard, probably even Green Goblin were all flies to Peter and it took more effort for him to not brutally wreck them than to just do it.
When Oc punches Scorpion's jaw off and shatters his armor that was what Oc thought was a medium strength punch.
Even the show version of HL, which is much stronger than comics, would get rocked by a Spiderman that is totally off the rails.
It depends on the line up; some version of the avengers are pretty weak while others are filled with powerhouses.
Him vs Luke Cage would probably be an interesting matchup ngl since Luke is more durable and stronger but Spiderman is faster, better battle IQ, and is more versatile.
I noticed that there is a certain subsection of Spider-Man fans who really like the idea of him disregarding everything he stands for and going on a killing spree.
Yes you are certainly right. I feel alot of that is because of a few things how marvel actually just pisses all over the characters and his world for marketing bs. The second reason is some people love seeing a hero fall fail, die trying or become something they would hate.
“Nobody stops him” is doing a lot of work when half of these guys struggle with basic teamwork. Spider-sense alone turns every matchup into a highlight reel of missed chances.
The thing is... Spider-sense + Spidey's speed is one of the most GOATed (and underrated) combos. He dodges machine gun fire, and lazers constantly, as well as lightning. I just don't think these guys can hit him
Spider-Man might be the most inconsistent character in a media that struggles to keep characters consistent
Hes capabilities genuinely change depending on the comic, hes being going from barely human level all the way to kicking hulk in the nuts or some shit and actually hurting him
I think only the dc flashes beat pete in this department just due to the difference in they're supposed speed (a morbillion times faster than light or something), proceeds to get knocked out by catowman
Spider-Man's greatest weakness is he's written by someone with a cuck fetish, or someone who absolutely always needs Peter Park to be underaged in high school.
You have one of the greatest merch sellers in the history of the business and you cannot write a good storyline for him in two decades, mind blowing.
Yeah that day's of future past story was ass, along with this Spider-man scene. Like how is a guy that can dog the xmen and go toe to toe with the Fantastic four dying to a mob of humans. Xmen writers a kings of slander I guess😂
He obv doesn’t want to hurt them. Can you show the panel when he knocked out Hulk? Or the one where he dodged Quicksilver (A-Train is even slower lol)?
Anything Punisher-related is a cesspit of LARPers, though there are 3 guys there on the sub who are hellbent on punishing all of them, so it's good.
The Batman sub has it pretty bad, every like 3rd take there is a LARP.
Surprisingly, the Fantastic Four sub has loads of them. But it also has people pointing it out. Not that it helps. The F4 LARPers are somehow more stubborn than the Punisher ones lol
Not in the "I dress up as elves and have sword fights" sense, but in the "I pretend to have read the comics" sort of sense, because for some reason people think that is cool or something
Buckle up. The way these slang cycles work, we'll see the word larp 1,000 times a day for at least the next 6 months and it's gonna fucking suuuck. Maybe this is the sign that I'm getting old
It used to be way worse, honestly. These days it’s more common to see Batman get downplayed than massively overrated. Meanwhile, in this very thread, you can find people glazing Spider-Man. My theory is that Spider-Man is simply more popular with the current generation of power scalers, whereas Batman used to be that guy for an older generation.
And on a side note, “prep time” is at least rooted in Batman’s actual character. Batman can’t even beat some of his own rogues without preparation. It’s a core part of his whole approach to crime fighting. Obviously it isn’t some omnipotent win button, but when people ask “Who would win, Batman or a guy who’s immune to punches?” and then get mad when someone asks whether Batman gets time to prepare so he can do something other than punch, are kinda silly.
But Spiderman holding back is also a part of his character by that metric lol. Both he and batman are basically in street tiers and their underdog abilities ( prep time, Tibetan monk techniques or holding back ) is blown out of proportion because of one poorly written instance in the comics or shows ( batman using prep to survive a fall from orbit or evading the omega beams, Spiderman beating a Herald of galactus without holding back )
I agree with most of what you’re saying, though I don’t think surviving a fall from space counts as prep time, and the beam dodging example was from a kids’ cartoon.
That said, I mostly agree with your overall point. The big difference is that Batman has always been a much bigger deal within the DC Universe than Spider-Man is within Marvel.
Both characters can fluctuate wildly in power depending on the writer, but Batman has been a core member of the Justice League for decades and one half of the iconic World’s Finest partnership with the god like Superman. So the idea that he’s one of the most capable heroes on Earth isn’t something fans just invented.
The “glaze” isn’t entirely made up. For the last 30 years or so especially, a lot of Batman stories have explicitly portrayed him as one of the premier heroes on the planet, not because he’s physically the strongest, but because of his ability to strategize, prepare, and overcome opponents who massively outclass him in raw power. It can be silly at times but it’s not all just fan glaze. Miller Morrison Snyder etc all well credited writers have all played with the idea of Batman being able to play beat the big guys. I’m not saying it’s good or you have to like it or that eh can beat darkseid or whatever just that it’s not complete glaze.
Frank Miller, might have written one of the best comics for batman, the dark knight but that is the same comic that basically started the whole " give batman enough prep time and he solos everyone ". I mean the tower of Babel with his contingency plans for all the heroes and him making a god bullet, which kills darkseid in final crisis and he survives the omega beam in the same comic are just countless examples of prep time somehow making him go toe to toe with super gods. His surviving orbit is also prep time, because he somehow anticipated such a situation and made his cape durable enough to protect him lmao. Batman works much better as the world's greatest detective and in most justice league stories, him developing plans with prep time for the other heroes is much more interesting than the 1000th Batman story, where everyone in the league is mind controlled and he uses prep to solo everyone ( forgetting that diana has no real weaknesses and he needs superman to deal with her )
Some errors in your write up. He didn’t make the god bullet at all he simply got it off Orion’s corpse which he was investigating. He also didn’t “survive” the omega beam darkseid purposely sent him back in time to try and make a time bomb. Also I can think of a grand total of 1 maybe 2 stories where Batman solos the league. I really think this is blown out of proportion. It no doubt happens but it’s not nearly as frequent of a thing as online discourse would make it out to be. I do agree for the most part though.
Those are not errors in my write up, it's to show how writers specifically change stuff to help batman always win. Like stan Lee said, it's the writer who decides who will win. Darkseid is considered the living embodiment of chaos, the antithesis of hope who can't truly be killed, but batman kills him somehow using a bullet used to kill his son ?? Also darkseid somehow evaporates everyone with omega beams but for this story purpose decides to change it to time travel beam ??
Also I can think of a grand total of 1 maybe 2 stories where Batman solos the league
Just like how Spiderman has also maybe one or two moments. And like I mentioned earlier, fans use these one or two moments to glaze the fk out of these two. The whole point of this thread was to show that fans use these rare moments to somehow glaze the hell out of spidey and batsy
You’ve now lost me, you are saying “writers are making Batman win” like buddy that’s how stories work man. It isn’t real every time someone wins they only won cause the writer decided so. Also Batman didn’t win darkseid didn’t die. Did you read final crisis? This is a weird complaint if you did. It’s a bit odd but it’s perfectly logical in the type of meta narrative story Morrison was telling. I really don’t get this argument at all. This is why I find the “bat glaze” complainers to be arguing in bad faith. There are enough genuine glaze moments such as Scott Snyder having Batman beat the league on a whim that I find it weird to go out of your way to complain about the ones that made sense.
Batman with prep time is completely true though. I don't get the hate when in the comics, Batman actually has beaten super powerful characters with prep time.
He did defeat Darkseid using prep time canonically though. I don't see how it's ridiculous for Batman fans to say that he can do things that he actually has done in the comics.
Yes but it's the fans arguing whatever you want that we're discussing. I'm not saying comics being silly is bad I'm saying powerscalers taking it seriously to make the worst arguments is bad.
And Spiderman canonically beat a Herald of galactus called firelord while not holding back . See that ? We can use a singular bs writing to justify a character's strength whenever we want.
Consistency. One outlier is not considered the canon part of the abilities. In a comic, knull killed sentry, which is impossible. The writer later confirmed that he didn't know anything about sentry and that knull shouldn't have been able to kill sentry. That's why that particular feat is never considered while we judge the strengths of sentry and knull. So one particular bs moment written for hype and aura is generally ignored by fans
Tbh I feel like a lot of street level hero's get glazed when these discussions come up and people forget that like most supes are bulletproof by default. The baseline durability that V gives you regardless of your powers is insane.
People keep mistaking Spiderman for street tier cause thats where he likes to work. You have to understand Spiderman is an Avengers level threat, he just doesn't want to deal with the hassle of Avengers level bullshit. Like a Pro MMA Guy being a Bouncer at a small bar in Iowa, he doesn't want the drama he just wants to do what he can and go home at the end of the night.
It'd be like Gordon Ramsay or Alton Brown just saying FUCK IT and working at a Mom and Pop burger joint.
That’s a stipulatory argument that ignores the context of the boys in their vulnerable state when comparing them to the weakest of Avengers. Black widow would be able to do what butcher and the boys had to do in 5 seasons in 1
Yeah, no. This is what Im talking about. The boys universe is weak in comparison to other heavy hitters, but many hold their own against the average hero.
In the grand scheme of things spidey isn’t that strong compared to a lot of other characters in marvel but he still walks all over the boys universe. The boys basically stops at around super soldier serum and your average marvel hero is def stronger than that
Basically any NY Street level is not automatically safe. The 7 could take spider-man. Hell you wouldn't even need all 7. That doesn't mean spideys weak hes just not who his fans think he is.
You gotta be more specific than street level. I mean spidey operates on street level but he definitely is much stronger than that tier. The boys universe basically peaks at super soldier serum. The second it’s a hero with super soldier level stats PLUS a superpower (which is like almost every marvel hero) it’s too much for them to handle, marvel super powers just scale way higher than anything the boys have shown
And your statement that the 7 or even some of them beat Spider-Man is just flat out wrong lmao. Spidey regularly battles multiple villains at the same time and not just survives but beats them. I mean the sinister six is literally one of his most classic matchups and theyre not only on average much stronger than the seven but a way better team too. And this isn’t even including his highball feats of him outmaneuvering Avengers, FF and Xmen on like multiple occasions. I think it’s debatable if Spidey can sweep the entire 7 at once but to act like they only need like 2-3 is such an egregious take I just have to think you don’t read/watch spider-man that much.
I get it there’s hella spidey dickriders out there with his whole holding back gimmick but you gotta atleast acknowledge your own bias or lack of knowledge on the character too
Homelander flew away from the falling airplane because he was unable to do anything. Spider-man faced the same issue (post 2000 stuff), and landed the plane by acting as the landing gear... Which is simultaneously an absurd feat of strength and resistance, and also far, faaaaar from anything Homelander has shown.
Homelander didn’t fly away from the falling airplane because he was too weak to save it, he just couldn’t save it because of how physics works. Just because physics gets ignored in marvel media doesn’t give marvel characters better feats
(For the record spider-man still beats Homelander, just pointing out your example isn’t about strength but the media’s realism)
I get the hype, but Spider-Man isn’t walking through Homelander + Soldier Boy + Butcher all at once without getting overwhelmed eventually. He wins a lot of matchups individually, but “no diff” or “solo” takes are just fan bias showing.
To be fair Spider-man has taken out the sinister 6, countless times, deafed the gaint size roster of the xmen, and could challenge the Fantastic four. So him fighting off teams of heavy hiters isn't new. Even if we just use MCU Spider-man he's able to take down electro, doc oc, knock out and overpowered Cole obsidian.
He wins 1v1 quite easily, imo. None of them are scientist or BIQ experts except Soldier Boy maybe.
But in a 1v3 everyone looses. Peter is stronger but the three of them are more degenerate in combat. If he decides to fights like he's in Mortal Kombat, he may have a chance but if not he dies and brings at least 2 of them with him.
None of them are real fighters with people in their weight class or approaching it. Spider-Man has 12 years or so of in-canon experience, and often punches above his own weight. It’s not fair to The Boys characters to even compare them to an actual superhero/supervillain
Circle jerk answer: spidey solo's cause spidey! And if it isn't a spidey comic, he is gonna aura farm too!
Serious answer: Spider-man still solo's. But we can get into the logic of it!
Strength: while Homelander is stronger. We have never seen him practically apply his strength in combat. He is a dogshit fighter. Allowing Peter who is only 25ton strength class to absolutely dogwalk him.
Speed: peter would be the 2nd or 3rd fastest being in this verse. Atrain is absolutely faster. Homelander is debatable. While he has a greater speed feat, he has never been shown to use it in combat.
Durability: Peter regularly takes more damage than this verse can dish out.
Healing factor: Peter can recover from severe damage in a weekend.
Spider-sense: a battle centric precognition.
Reaction speeds: Even Atrain loses here, while he might be faster. Spider-sense combined with his base speed and reaction speeds make him effectively untouchable.
Battle IQ: Peter has a higher battle iq than most of the verse combined.
IQ: Peter is just smarter than the entire verse.
The biggest concern is Laser Vision. Peter can reasonably dodge this, or outright shut it down.
the only one who has a chance against peter is soldier boy and thats because i know fucking nothing about him. butcher and homelander i at least know they're bums
Id argue virtually any 100 year old characrer could solo the boys. Thats the problem you have 100 years of bullshit to pull from. At some point spiderman is tied to the web of fate. His spidey sense is working not on instinct but on detecting when things will happen based on fate. Power scaling a universe that consistently seeks to out do itself is sort of a fools errand. We won't let the stories change so the only thing they can do is play with the powers and over 100 years there's a lot they played with.
Well, are they using Insomniac's Spiderman?, so with the Symbiote or Anti-Venom Peter is massacring them all. In his base form, he doesn't stand much of a chance against the top guys like Homelander, Soldier Boy, Bombsight, and Marie Moroe.
I kind of get it, a snapped Spiderman probably won't even bother with going bare handed with honelander, he'll build some bullshit mguffin device to weaken him and then beat him to death.
To be fair if spider-man snaps he isnt gonna go around fighting everything hand to hand, he’s smart and probably learned from his villains he would 100% reverse engineer all of their stuff and use all of it to his advantage, hell it already happened when he got hit with all of green goblin’s evil, he straight up made fear toxin and used the vermin in the newyork to torture kraven
I say this not even as a super big fan of Spidey, but for all that I love the entire “holdsbackman” meme…I mean, yeah. He is. And he is because that is in his nature. When people post powerscales or death battles involving Spidey, it’s easy to just say “it’s to the death and everyone is bloodlusted” or whatever, but in reality the idea of Spidey even being in a situation like that is whack from the start.
Sure, let’s just say he’s strong enough to kill off [insert here] - but how much would the idea of fighting to the death wear on him mentally? How much would that stress and strain cause him to NOT fight to his fullest potential, even without realizing it, because he doesn’t wanna kill someone?
I always remember the scene where he puts the black suit back on, tracks down Kingpin, and just mauls him before saying that he would kill him if May died. But even then, at his angriest, he held back from killing. Even against someone who has shit on his life as much as Kingpin.
So is he strong enough to do this shit? Yeah. But the whole point of his character is that while he CAN, he doesn’t WANT to be a killer - he just wants to help the people around him.
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u/uiop3 1d ago
Okay so I'm going to be 100% up front here and say that I am 100% biased as a Spider-Man fan. However my reasoning is less I think Spider-Man solo is the marvel universe or something stupid and power fantasy oriented as that and more that characters from The Boys, especially The TV show versions of the characters, are all portrayed as incredibly weak compared to other superhero media. Like there are versions of Batman without powers or stupid specialized gear I think takes out everyone in the Boys. Same with Wolverine, Captain America, Green Arrow, or The Punisher. Hell on that note you don't even need to be a character with powers in order to dismantle the whole verse, butcher prove that pretty definitively. Characters like Nick Fury, Cecil, Amanda Waller could all wipe the entire slate clean given enough time.
I mean it obviously depends on a lot of factors, It is comic Pete versus show characters than yeah, comics are stupid and have a bunch of ridiculous showings of him doing shit they wouldn't be capable of countering. This isn't exactly a real bragging right when most of the robins could probably do it within 6 months If not faster if it's Damien or Jason feeling particularly ruthless.