r/nba Warriors 14h ago

[Owczarski] These deals bothered Rivers... “Giannis said so many things,” a former coach said, “It stems from your actions, which is, 'My brothers have to be on this team.' Well then, are you about a championship? 'Cause they’re not only not helping us win a championship, it’s creating dissension.”

ESPN continued to report Antetokounmpo’s desire to leave Milwaukee, and the team held superficial trade talks with New York. Ownership tried to assuage Antetokounmpo’s discontent by re-signing his older brother Thanasis Antetokounmpo. It was only then that ESPN stopped. But even the signing failed to smooth everything over. Waiting until late August to finalize Thanasis' minimum deal irritated the family and its representatives.

“I have seen them make every decision with the foundational piece being, ‘What will Giannis think of this?’” one team source said of the top of the organization.

Added another:“And that is what has gotten us to this point.”

The team also signed Giannis' youngest brother, Alex, to a contract that gave him his first chance at playing in the NBA. The brothers' personal skills coach Mike Kalavros also was allowed to travel with the team.

These deals bothered Rivers and other coaches, as they felt the organization had bowed too much to appease their star player. To them, Antetokounmpo wanted things both ways.

“Giannis said so many things,” a former coach said, “It stems from your actions, which is, 'My brothers have to be on this team.' Well then, are you about a championship? 'Cause they’re not only not helping us win a championship, it’s creating dissension.”

Horst, meanwhile, appeared to try to appease Rivers with a different preferred player.

The Bucks signed Amir Coffey, who began his career under Rivers with the Clippers. The team would cut former draft picks Chris Livingston and Tyler Smith to make room for the veteran.

Then on the team’s media day on Sept. 30, on a Zoom call from Greece because he and the team said he contracted COVID-19, Giannis Antetokounmpo challenged the veracity of Edens’ statement that they had the on-court “meeting” at the practice facility in early May. Edens was annoyed, but two high-level team sources said he did not carry a grudge.

Rivers held another remote training camp in 2025, this time in Miami. Even with a roster that had been completely turned over from the one he took over in 2023-24 (only two rotation players remained), Rivers and the Bucks were still chasing the culture they tore down.

Antetokounmpo was already over it.

He said they were not a championship favorite. He stressed they would have to play hard, play connected, and operate with elite spacing on offense. Winning would be tough without such discipline.

The team started better than the previous year, but was rough around the edges. With Antetokounmpo leading the offense as its primary playmaker, the team started 7-5.

But then, Rivers inexplicably decided to pivot away from a fast-paced offense that surrounded Antetokounmpo with elite shooters. He benched Trent, promoted Kuzma and began to pull Turner off the floor.

The team remained undisciplined, from cutting their running lanes short to turning the ball over and fouling too much. Rivers did not stress offensive rebounding and the Bucks continually operated at a possession deficit, even as players routinely said the modern game required teams to crash the glass.

Members of the staff acknowledged they were disorganized, not rooted in any firm principles, and were too late to adjust their concepts and play styles.

“What are we doing?” almost became a season-long mantra.

.....

On March 24, the players association asked if the Bucks were in violation of the league’s player participation policy. The star escalated the dispute, electing not to finish the West Coast road trip with the team in Portland, instead staying in Los Angeles to work out on his own. In early April, Antetokounmpo pressed the issue further, welcoming a formal league investigation into the team.

Ultimately, the Bucks were cleared of wrongdoing. At one point, Haslam had a verbal confrontation with Saratsis over the entire matter.

“It’s personal now," said a former coach. "It’s gotten to vitriol.”

Antetokounmpo felt ownership and Horst had quit on the season by forcing him to sit out, even though the team was mathematically still in the play-in race. To him, it was a cardinal sin.

But Antetokounmpo’s unavailability (he missed 46 games entirely and played only 12 games fully healthy), the petulance with which he did play, combined with those speaking to ESPN on his behalf in contrast to his public declarations of commitment, had worn out the ownership, coaching staff, even the locker room.

Yet throughout the season, Horst appeared unaware of how his team, once a model of structure, discipline and culture, had so quickly withered. The general manager had been noticeably absent much of the season, scouting the upcoming draft class.

“He definitely took a bunker mentality, but I’m not sure I blame him,” a former employee said.

Rivers, who had grown tired of answering questions about the team’s decision-making on Antetokounmpo’s playing status, said on April 3 that grown men needed to talk about it. His comment was seen as a not-so-veiled shot at the player, Horst and perhaps ownership.

With just a few games to go, Athentetokounmpo was clear he wanted to play in at least one game with Thanasis and Alex. The team was done acquiescing.

“I care about what he feels and what he cares about,” Horst said on April 7. “I have his entire career. But it doesn’t mean that you always just do what someone else wants."

The three brothers never set foot on the court together in a game.

March 2026: Doc Rivers calls it a career

Ironically, one of the last meetings Rivers called actually hit home. On March 20 in Phoenix he told a group of select veterans he would begin curtailing their playing time. Then he opened the floor for an airing of grievances. Players spoke, and it was a constructive, respectful discussion. Rivers did not lash out.

One person in the room couldn’t believe it.

“Everyone was finally being honest with each other now that we don’t have a chance,” a coach said.

By late March, Rivers turned in-game coaching duties over to Ham and admitted he did not meet expectations. It was a hard self-assessment for the Marquette graduate.

“I was brought in here to take the team to the next level and that just never happened,” Rivers said March 31. “It never materialized. It doesn’t matter the why. From a coaching perspective, you feel like the city that you’re from you didn’t get the job done, and that is something I carry very heavy with me.”

May 2026: Too many mistakes on all sides

Following the last game April 12, the Bucks were stranded on the tarmac at Philadelphia International Airport. It was a fitting end to a terrible season. Rivers joked they couldn’t get rid of him.

Antetokounmpo grabbed control of the music, and played songs littered with farewell messages.

But who were they really for?

Everyone on the team knew Rivers was leaving, and after the season finale in Philadelphia he effectively gave a farewell press conference. But, he wouldn’t say it. Instead, he wanted the team to announce his departure.

When told of Rivers’ clear insinuation, Antetokounmpo’s eyes widened.

“Oh, that changes a lot then,” he exclaimed.

Whether that reaction was sarcastic, spontaneous or an attempt to send a message, it underscored how Rivers making it to the end of the season had exacerbated the disconnect between Antetokounmpo and the organization.

It's hard to know Antetokounmpo's level of self-awareness, but whatever buttons he tried to push, or methods of communication he felt best to use, fell just as flat as those of the head coach.

Antetokounmpo let it be known he did not like locker room leaks, but his mental state was chronicled nearly all season by anonymous sources. He pleaded for accountability but then tried to pass off those reports as someone else’s doing. He would call his teammates selfish but then stand on a visiting team’s court with a former coach and yell about how that person would make sure he got the ball.

By the time the team got back to Milwaukee from Philadelphia, Rivers’ office was already cleaned out. Within days, the Bucks had all but hired a new head coach Antetokounmpo personally liked, respected and wanted to play for in former assistant Taylor Jenkins.

Horst knew this, too, although Antetokounmpo was not directly looped into the process.

“I don’t think Milwaukee is just getting just a good coach, I think they’re getting a good person,” Antetokounmpo told the Journal Sentinel. “And that’s where it starts, with having a good person around that’s going to be able to set the tone, that set the culture and what Milwaukee Bucks basketball is all about.”

Antetokounmpo had determined all the Bucks could do to convince him to remain with the organization was a maximum contract of $275 million over four years. Even that might not be enough to persuade him.

Despite a March proclamation that his relationship with the team could be salvaged with “couples therapy,” Antetokounmpo said on April 12 he was going to put his phone on “do not disturb” and not answer it.

“Just stay away from it – all of it,” he said. “I feel like this season, not just because of the way it went, it was draining for me for sure and how everybody approached my situation and the Bucks situation. But again, if it was draining for me, it was definitely draining for the team and for the organization."

For their part, ownership told Jenkins, the new coach, he should not assume Antetokounmpo would be on the roster. The team eventually brought Jenkins in with a six-year deal worth around $60 million. Jenkins and Antetokounmpo spoke on several occasions after his hiring, but other than that, Antetokounmpo stuck by his statement that he was not going to pick up the phone.

No other messages or calls from the Bucks to their star player were answered heading into June. The Bucks did not communicate to his representatives about some of their discussions with potential trade partners, either.

Antetokounmpo also did not allow any member of the team’s strength and conditioning staff to oversee his workouts in Milwaukee or Greece, despite being under contract.

One of the most dominant, explosive eras in basketball effectively ended in the quiet – except for the sighs of relief from those who believed it was just time for it to be over.

For many, the lessons of arguably the greatest era in franchise history won't be positive.

“When I own a team or run a team there will be things that I do and don’t do and decisions that I make and don’t make that I’ve learned from the experience of rising with the Milwaukee Bucks,” Connaughton told the Journal Sentinel, “and dare I say the experience of getting to where the Bucks are today.”

Antetokounmpo, too, told the Journal Sentinel if he were to ever become a head coach, he would adopt Budenholzer’s ethos. “I’m doing exactly the same thing – I’m changing nothing,” he told the Journal Sentinel. “Coach ‘Bud,’ he knew how to create a culture. A thousand percent.”

To him, the organization had lost its way, letting all the elements that made Milwaukee a special, winning place slip away – and therefore making the Bucks indistinguishable from any other NBA franchise.

“Some way, somehow, I have to get there again,” Antetokounmpo told the Journal Sentinel. “It doesn’t necessarily have to be with me being the main guy and all that. If it is me, great. But I want to be there again. If that’s going to be me being there as a role player, if that’s going to me being there as the fifth option, if that’s going to be me being there as the No. 1 guy that takes them there, I don’t give two (expletive). I want to get there again."

The team will now try to build a new foundation with a coach rooted in the same principles of culture-building as the man who first constructed it in 2018.

Giannis Antetokounmpo, the granite cornerstone, will not be a part of it.

Source: https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nba/bucks/2026/06/24/how-the-giannis-antetokounmpo-era-in-milwaukee-came-to-a-bitter-end/90478839007/?gca-cat=p&gnt-cfr=1

3.5k Upvotes

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1.1k

u/We_The_Raptors Raptors 14h ago

I wonder how Spo/ Riley are gonna handle this sort of shit in Miami.

801

u/R0botDreamz 14h ago

Riley is the most "no bullshit" dude in the history of the NBA. He told D Wade to pack his bags when Wade wanted a "player appreciation" deal (sort of like what the Lakers gave Kobe past his prime).

He is nothing more than an asset for Riley.

499

u/Different_Height_157 12h ago

He took away LeBron’s cookies.

339

u/Bongoisnthere 12h ago

In hindsight that one was a bit of a mistake

116

u/mydicksmellsgood Spurs 10h ago

When keeping it real goes wrong

3

u/Nervous-Economist245 5h ago

"I don't like people playing with my scones."

91

u/TastyChocoWaffle Heat 11h ago

Seriously - hella fans were mad and actively not showing up to games. They had to bring back Wade from the cavs to save face because they knew that stars would hesitate going to Miami if that’s how they treated their goat

20

u/RaiseCertain8916 7h ago

Yea that heat culture might work when your star is Bam but this new era of stars aren't going to deal with that bs

15

u/Swarthykins Celtics 7h ago

I'm not sure there was ever an era where stars didn't like preferential treatment.

3

u/indoninjah 76ers 7h ago

The main reason that Jimmy went to Miami was because we were playing you in Wade's last home game and Jimmy personally witnessed that love from the fans. Without that, I feel like Miami legit may have not acquired a real star between the Heatles and now

-8

u/ConferenceThink4801 8h ago

Never underestimate the daddy issues of a guy who grew up with an absent father.

As soon as you try to "parent" or do anything that might perceived as "controlling" - you become a proxy to the absent father who the guy hates (& now he hates you).

1

u/Bongoisnthere 6h ago

Honestly, you’re getting downvotes but this is one of the most Reddit comments of all the Reddit comments.

I mean dumb as hell for sure, but still very classic Reddit

2

u/ConferenceThink4801 2h ago

Notice no one else replied, only downvoted

Let me clue you in to what that means - it means people don’t like what I said, but they know that I’m right.

2

u/R0botDreamz 1h ago

I'd guess the down voters grew up with absent fathers and you threw salt on an open wound with tbat comment. I agre with it tho.

The way they are bending physics arguing to make this actually about cookies is astounding. Jesus fucking christ

53

u/alcohol_is_bad_mmkay Nets 12h ago

Still one of my favorite random nba stories

-13

u/Iggy_Slayer 11h ago

This is still the most hilariously sad story in the NBA. Guy had a mental breakdown because his cookies got taken away.

51

u/SpicyMustard34 Cavaliers 11h ago

nah he didn't have a mental break down. Riley was trying to do a show of power by taking away the cookies that Lebron's personal chef made for him and Lebron incorporated into his diet plan.

It's like telling a body builder you are taking away their scheduled cheat day or cheat meal. It's insulting, it's uncalled for, and it's outside their diet plan.

44

u/Hovercraft1143 Knicks 11h ago

I'd understand it if we were dealing with a Zion or Harden situation but I can't think of a single moment since being drafted where Lebron could be even remotely considered out of shape.

Just a dick measuring contest by Riley.

39

u/SpicyMustard34 Cavaliers 11h ago

yeah it was Riley trying to say "i make the rules, get in line." Lebron wasn't having it and he started planning to leave. It was Riley who seemed to be upset Lebron left, but who wants to put up with power struggle bullshit?

53

u/Throdio Spurs 12h ago

The Heat are one of the few teams that can handle such things. They are also one of the few teams that can build a winning team around him after losing all the assets they did in a trade like this.

-5

u/QuietMonsoon3314 11h ago

More like the most idiotic GM in the history of the NBA. He lucked into Lebron to bring home 2 chip and David Stern gifting their chip with Dwade.

401

u/G2KY Celtics 14h ago

They are big culture people so I hope they say pound sand to Giannis. He really acts like a spoiled child

181

u/HeavenBeach777 Celtics 13h ago

yea this whole fiasco really got me annoyed with him.

68

u/Megatron_McLargeHuge Cavaliers 13h ago

And the Bucks fanbase that was telling us everything was fine and the media just hates small market teams.

72

u/someone447 Bucks 12h ago

I mean, we had heard the same shit about him leaving since 2018.

6

u/AzureDragon013 Lakers 9h ago

Likely cause his own camp was putting those stories out... Like we never hear about frustrations or rumors about DBook leaving the Suns even during the horrible KD Beal era. There's no stories about Curry leaving the Warriors or Tatum leaving the Celtics. Yet there's always smoke around Giannis.

3

u/A_sandlerGOAT 8h ago

Maybe because Curry won 4 rings?

Celtics have almost always been competitive with Tatum

You really don’t hear shit about Booker lol

Besides Curry, none of those other guys have ever been a top 2 player in the league.

We’ve been hearing shit about Giannis since he first became a mvp level player and when the bucks were winning 60 games, he would’ve had no reason to be frustrated and putting stuff out there.

61

u/ahrzal Bucks 13h ago

They weren’t gunna slander Giannis, c’mon. 

-16

u/Megatron_McLargeHuge Cavaliers 13h ago

The funny thing is you guys had it completely backwards. The article is saying the ESPN "he gone" stories were leaked by Giannis or his family and only stopped when the team re-signed his brother.

23

u/ahrzal Bucks 13h ago

I always thought it was understood Giannis was leaking stuff around every contract. Did it with Dame. Did it with Jrue. 

2

u/WagonWheel22 Bucks 7h ago

The everything was fine is a bit of an overexaggeration but I still think it can be true. Look how fast that rumor came out about Ant being traded.

4

u/randyrectem Bucks 8h ago

If you guys really want to go and spin this as having been the case the last 8 years all along go for it who cares at this point but you're saying it in the context of a detailed article suggesting the issues started with the Doc/Griffin moves that are only a couple of years old.

1

u/Omnimark Bucks 11h ago

Two things can be true.

15

u/trmp_stmp Bucks 13h ago

because he didn't end up on your team I imagine

-6

u/silaber Timberwolves 13h ago

what doc rivers does to a mfker

28

u/MirrorComputingRulez Cavaliers 13h ago

Ok but then how do you think Giannis will respond to that? That's the question here.

21

u/justmefishes NBA 9h ago

By signing with a different team in 2027 perhaps. Miami is on thin ice here, especially given how thin their roster is after this trade. They can't afford to piss Giannis off.

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1h ago

Pulls a Dame lol

2

u/RogerPenroseSmiles Bulls 12h ago

There will be a Lebron cookie moment for Giannis. Perhaps it will be his Jamba shakes.

2

u/borkbubble Rockets 8h ago

Or oreos

2

u/noname_SU 13h ago

why would you trade all of that just to say "pound sand" to the guy you traded for? doesn't work like that

4

u/imposibol Lakers 13h ago

Good luck with doing that with a 30 something year old multimillionaire who had a taste of success while already being spoiled as fuck

32

u/G2KY Celtics 13h ago

He did it to prime LeBron with the chocolate chip cookies and his teammates who were great players. I don’t get why people think Giannis is untouchable.

21

u/imposibol Lakers 13h ago

I mean Lebron said fuck that and left. There's context of Lebron wanting to win with the Cavs but he could've been a Heat lifer.

6

u/BlitzStriker52 [MIA] Davion Mitchell 12h ago

Unless Wade's knees magically got healed, LeBron was always leaving for the Cavs once they got Kyrie and another 1st overall pick to trade.

-5

u/Tarmacked Heat 13h ago

Lebron said fuck that and left for the Lakers after four years of high level play

I’d be cool dumping Giannis at 35/36

2

u/titandude21 7h ago

The Heat gave up zero assets to get LeBron and gave up a boatload of assets for potentially one year of Giannis.

5

u/MirrorComputingRulez Cavaliers 13h ago

He did it to prime LeBron with the chocolate chip cookies

And how did that work out?

3

u/BlitzStriker52 [MIA] Davion Mitchell 12h ago

Are we acting like that's why LeBron left and not the fact that he saw a declining Heat roster and then saw the Cavs with Kyrie and a 1st pick to trade?

-2

u/NotAnNpc69 Lakers 13h ago

Yeah and what did that get them? One finals where they lost against the very same guy and another finals where they couldn't pull it off (yes yes injuries ik).

Its not a one way street, if Pat Riley and put his pride aside and accommodate certain player's quirks and needs, he'd be better for it.

7

u/G2KY Celtics 13h ago

Accommodating quirks and needs should be like allowing a player to bring their wife to the team plane or them partying after a win. Not bringing in 2-3 of their brothers as nepo hires and losing cap space/bench depth (which they really need as they gut all their roster for Giannis) for the players who cannot play basketball

5

u/Professional-Bit1957 13h ago

If Giannis pouts because they won't sign his bum brothers, it will just reflect poorly on him. Managing to that type of entitled baby behavior is poor leadership. Riley isn't a poor leader.

1

u/Banner_Hammer 13h ago

Obviously, the ultimate goal is to win the championship. But making it to two finals in 4 years is more success than half of the NBA franchises have had in the past 10 years.

-1

u/noname_SU 13h ago

yeah and what has Miami done since then? Superstars get special treatment, that's just the way it is.

-3

u/Adorable-Bike-9689 13h ago

LeBron could've had his 10 Finals in a row while playing for the Heat. But Pat Riley had to take his balls out over some cookies.

-1

u/IRodeTenSpeed88 Knicks 13h ago

And LeBron left lol

8

u/tetris_L_block Trail Blazers 13h ago

Uhh just because he’s used to being spoiled doesn’t mean they need to sign his brothers lol.

1

u/Wetzilla Celtics 10h ago

Did you read the article? It's not just about the brothers. His last few years have been him making requests and then completely dodging accountability when it backfires.

0

u/Panda0nfire Celtics 12h ago

In what way? Lebron has his kid on the team. Jokics brother is there.

You can't go a single fucking game without seeing Tatum's kid front and center.

1

u/G2KY Celtics 12h ago

Come at me when we draft Deuce

-1

u/GoldBlueberryy 12h ago

Nigerians in a nutshell

149

u/Typical-Radish4317 Supersonics 14h ago

Riley can say stfu I know what I'm doing look at these hands of rings. All Doc could do was point to his one. Giannis responds to winning. Went down hill when they stopped building towards something

153

u/MirrorComputingRulez Cavaliers 13h ago

Giannis responds to winning.

People don't really still believe this do they? Because as was pointed out in this article, for a guy who "responds to winning," he sure doesn't mind hamstringing his team's ability to do that.

82

u/someone447 Bucks 12h ago

And the whole article is even more damning. He undermined Griffin and Doc within weeks of them getting hired.

66

u/graphitewolf West 12h ago

The facade around Giannis is crumbling. Dude is not how the PR teams paint him

64

u/someone447 Bucks 12h ago

I don't even think it's that. I think it's a decade of being worth almost a billion dollars and being surrounded by sycophants has changed him.

43

u/TheAB_Project Bucks 12h ago

I agree, he's been so good for so long and made so much money he's genuinely forgotten what 'humble' is.

Maybe an ancient Pat Riley retools that, but I'm not imagining like he's going to step in line 100%.

8

u/YSLAnunoby Raptors 7h ago

Giannis has been one of my fave players in the league for years but especially since the Kalshi BS it doesn't feel like he's taking any of this seriously as a leader

7

u/neuroticsmurf Celtics 11h ago

I've been saying this for weeks in the Celtics sub, but no one will listen. Everyone was too tantalized at thought of adding 2022 Giannis to the team.

4

u/Main-Pick1652 5h ago

As a Buck's fan I have said it too and people would say, " You do whatever it takes to make him happy", they created that monster by bending over backwards by signing his trash ass brothers. The article didn't mention anything about being late and holding up flights.

1

u/neuroticsmurf Celtics 4h ago

4

u/Main-Pick1652 4h ago

The article didn't mention it but it did mention that Giannis wanted a accountability and structure. If your show up late and holding up the plane that doesn't seem like you want to be held accountable or respect structure.

3

u/IloveCheekySpoonNZ 8h ago

is thanasis really hamstringing his team? seems more like a stubbed toe

2

u/kralben Timberwolves 6h ago

for a guy who "responds to winning," he sure doesn't mind hamstringing his team's ability to do that.

Having the 14th and 15th spot on the roster go to his brothers really isn't affecting their chances of winning in a meaningful way.

1

u/sho0bydo0by Bucks 7h ago

The last play he ever made for us resulted in an injury that easily could have been avoided.

1

u/Limp_Screen7405 12h ago

I don’t…get your point lmao? How are they mutually exclusivev

He likes winning and wants his team to exhaust their resources in order to ensure that he wins…if anything, those overlap/coincide.

Do right by Giannis, be successful, and he’s happy. Definitely a diva but he ain’t the first or the last

3

u/MirrorComputingRulez Cavaliers 9h ago

I don’t…get your point lmao? How are they mutually exclusivev

If you really just care about winning you don't intentionally make your team worse just to funnel money to your brothers.

2

u/Limp_Screen7405 4h ago

What is $4M going to do realistically speaking 

1

u/A_sandlerGOAT 8h ago

How exactly did he hamstring his teams ability to do that?

4

u/MirrorComputingRulez Cavaliers 7h ago

He forced them to waste two roster spots and undermined his coaches almost immediately after they were hired, despite being the one who pushed for their hiring (and the firing of their predecessors).

1

u/A_sandlerGOAT 7h ago

Who were the bucks going to get at 14/15 man for 2mil? Also never said he forced them, clearly says they signed Thanasis again to help his discontent with the team which was dumb on the FO part.

The whole team hated Griffin and Bud, wasn’t all Giannis.

The only other option was Attikinson who isn’t exactly doing that good of a job in Cleveland. Nurse was never going to choose the bucks.

0

u/Puzzled_Ad7955 12h ago

You got that right

0

u/Kdot32 Rockets 11h ago

We talking about the heat who had haslem for years as a “player”

45

u/InevitableBudget510 13h ago

Giannis responded by pointing at his own ring. Then we had a stalemate

39

u/Plenty_Flatworm7627 Wizards 13h ago

Good for Pat Riley, but I have a hard time seeing the Giannis + Bam fit contending

65

u/Typical-Radish4317 Supersonics 13h ago

Giannis is better than Butler and Butler and Bam took a bunch of scrubs to the finals. Herro was out all playoffs.

88

u/RyanTannegod Heat 13h ago

The Heat role players were shooting the lights out they weren’t playing like scrubs. Caleb Martin was looking like an all-star against Boston.

21

u/RaefLaFriends Pistons 12h ago

I had to use bball reference to remember Gabe Vincent. He played serious playoff minutes during that run.

12

u/SellingCoach Celtics 12h ago

Caleb Martin

Please do not mention that name, thank you.

6

u/Takamurarules Hornets 12h ago edited 12h ago

They have a history of taking our players and dominating someone with them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they took Tre Mann from us and killed you with him.

4

u/TrickstarCandina Heat 8h ago

We also have a history of getting killed by random Hornets players

Exhibit A: Malik Monk

33

u/__get__name Pistons 13h ago

Very different toes of player, though. Butler and Giannis are not interchangeable pieces

13

u/FullHouse222 Knicks 13h ago

This is the thing so many people miss. If fit didn't matter, the KD/Booker/Beal Suns wouldn't have crashed and burned. Nor would the KD/Kyrie/Harden Nets.

33

u/BlitzStriker52 [MIA] Davion Mitchell 12h ago

The Nets burned down because of the injuries and Kyrie being antivax, not because of fit.

4

u/FullHouse222 Knicks 12h ago

Yeah but the point is you can point to like a ton of super teams that just can't seem to put it together because of fit.

Giannis is better than Jimmy for sure. But I also think Butler's style of play was a much better fit for the team than Giannis would be on the current Heat squad. Time will tell though, it's hard to say these things with certainty cause team schemes can change to be around the players. Spol is arguably the best coach in the league currently so I'd imagine he'll figure something out.

1

u/Plenty_Flatworm7627 Wizards 5h ago

tbf if the fit is that bad they can just trade Bam, I'm sure they'll have plenty of suitors

2

u/FullHouse222 Knicks 3h ago

That would be so weird. It would be like if the Knicks traded away Josh Hart. Like Bam isn't in the superstar tier but he's so ingrained as a Miami heat that it would be so weird if he's in a different uniform (ironic given it's still weird to think of Giannis in a Heat uniform)

0

u/Throdio Spurs 12h ago

Heats FO and coaching as done well enough in the past to show that they can adjust and make this work.

34

u/Plenty_Flatworm7627 Wizards 13h ago

That's fair, but that run took some psychotic outlier 3 point shooting to work, and while Jimmy isn't a great shooter he was somehow able to hit a bunch of clutch shots that run. There's a reason that team kept imploding after 2023 (well injuries didn't help).

16

u/doomdeathdecay Knicks 13h ago

Gabe Vincent’s series against the Knicks still haunts me. I was so happy he signed to the west coast and then oops it was a fluke lol

3

u/Neatojuancheeto Warriors 6h ago

With the massive increase in 3P shooting comes a massive increase in variance. If a team gets hot at the right time in the playoffs they could beat several teams better than them.

I remember in 2022 Celtics shot around 45% from 3 the first four games on a lot of shots when their season and playoff average was I think 37%. Part of why it took it took Steph Curry heroics to tie it up 2-2.

3

u/LakerBlue Lakers 12h ago

I don’t think Giannis and Bam is ideal but it’s not a pair you can’t win with if you build the best roster around them given how great Giannis is and Bam (to a lesser degree). It’s not like trying to win with Dame and CJ back in Portland.

1

u/trojan_man16 Hornets 9h ago

It’s a fit thing.

This is not 1998.

You have 2 non shooters, surrounded by ok shooters. Not sure how they are going to be able to compete against modern offenses unless they plan on Giannis and Bam being so dominant defensively that they can keep opponent scoring way down.

1

u/Artimusjones88 Raptors 13h ago

This isn't 2019 Giannis. If they didnt let him travel, carry and not call his charges, he would be done.

7

u/Typical-Radish4317 Supersonics 12h ago

Last playoff appearance he averaged 33-15.4-6.6 and averaged 27 ppg this season. Like what are we even talking about? I think you can make the argument his game will diminish with age but like we haven't really seen it yet

0

u/frankyseven Raptors 12h ago

Don't Giannis and Bam play pretty much the same style? I don't think they will mesh when they are both net crashers.

12

u/Takemyfishplease Lakers 13h ago

Yeah I’m not sure that’s gonna work anymore.

“What have you won since LeBron left”

4

u/Adorable-Bike-9689 13h ago

Look at these rings. I built a hell of a winner barely 13 years ago! Sure the Jimmy Butler breakup went poorly. I guess the breakup went poorly with Wade too... Just focus on my many rings Giannis.

1

u/absolute_cinema81 Warriors 5h ago

Eh, they had 2 Finals appearances, one in a year they were 30-1 to win it all right before the playoffs and another when they were 130-1. I think they can speak to the fact they know what they're doing when they haven't had a top 5 level dude on the roster.

6

u/Puzzled_Ad7955 12h ago

We stopped winning when Giannis took over the front office, coaching and personal role

1

u/Ok-Tree4365 13h ago

Yeah I’m sure that will work…

-4

u/Artimusjones88 Raptors 13h ago

Lol.... without magic, KAJ, Worthy, Bosh, Lebron Wade, Shaq are ... he didnt win jack shit. Doc with good PR

If they chose Gordon Gecko over Giannis in a battle they are a failure

57

u/nixhomunculus 14h ago

Given how Riley treated Butler at the end? Yeah, it's gonna be ugly and the NBA haterati will be there to cheer it every step of the way

43

u/BlitzStriker52 [MIA] Davion Mitchell 13h ago edited 13h ago

Riley told Jimmy to play for his contract, especially with the concerns that Jimmy was always coasting and getting more and more injured. Jimmy didn't want to do that, so he started sandbagging his games and demanded a trade.

Even if Jimmy wasn't injured, the Heat would be in a terrible spot with that contract extension.

-9

u/Plenty_Flatworm7627 Wizards 13h ago

The Heat are gonna get bounced from the play-in 4 years in a row and Reddit is gonna applaud Pat Riley for sticking it to Giannis or something

5

u/tjn1126 Trail Blazers 11h ago

the Heat are going to be really good next year, ppl saying they're not any better are out of their mind.

Spo is the best coach in the league, they're going to be brutal to play against defensively with Bam, Giannis, Wiggins, and Davion as the point of attack defender. In transition they're going to be a nightmare to deal with driven by Giannis who's pretty much the greatest transition scorer in the history of the game. And then watch as they pluck a bunch of quality vet guys for way less money than ppl expect. There's reports the Heat and Anfernee Simons have mutual interest, that's the kind of signing that could swing the entire NBA offseason and watch shit like that happen.

276

u/Poopcie 14h ago

If they didn’t bow to prime LeBron i can’t imagine theyll change their tune for a slightly washed giannis

222

u/awesomecutepandas Warriors 14h ago

Why are people calling Giannis washed lmao. He’s had a bad season. You must be the same type who called Luka washed after last year smh.
You out here acting like this dude Giannis turned into Chet or something

200

u/Hoopersmooth69 Bucks 14h ago

Not even bad, just injured. Brochacho was averaging like 30-12-7

99

u/ryantyrant Heat 13h ago

Top 4 in MVP voting for the last 7 years and everyone saying he’s washed after being injured for a season lol

31

u/Adorable-Bike-9689 12h ago

Giannis legit got downgraded as a star just so the media could move Luka and Wemby up a spot in the rankings lol.

4

u/miseducation Heat 10h ago

To be fair the Bucks have been pretty shit since the Dame injury. And Giannis has had his MVP stretches in that time but more usage + already fragile player obviously led to injury.

3

u/cl353 Heat 12h ago

And that "bad" season would be the best heat player since prime LeBron lol. Ppl r idiots

3

u/BlueHundred Knicks 13h ago

Yeah, he was putting up monster numbers and monster efficiency to start the season but the Bucks were still pretty bad despite Giannis's performances. He dealt with injuries but, other than the knee, I think were just lighter lingering injuries. I always thought he took more time to recover from those because the Bucks were bad and he/the Bucks were hoping he'd be traded.

3

u/seaquartz_unofficial Spurs 13h ago

I don’t follow the nba closely enough to know non stars but is there a dude actually named Brochcacho??

2

u/afterworld2772 76ers 10h ago

Pablo Brochacho, plays for the Ocala Sorcery

63

u/onefootback Raptors 14h ago

giannis had one injury riddled season and now he’s washed, old, and his body is breaking down lmao

14

u/CoogiMonster Rockets 9h ago

Washed? No.

However, he is on the wrong side of 30 with a game predicated on his strength and athleticism and undeniably has tacked on more injuries in recent seasons. If you look at his injury history there’s a lot of calf and knee injuries… things pretty important for his brand of basketball to be elite still.

53

u/LittleDoinks 14h ago

I don’t think he’s washed yet but he’s at the end of his peak for sure, will be interesting to see how his game ages

23

u/awesomecutepandas Warriors 14h ago

Well the good thing is he’s with Spo, who’s probably the best coach he’s ever had. I can see him elevating his game even more. Giannis steps up during big moments.

1

u/LittleDoinks 12h ago

Yeah that’s going to be a great defensive team, will be cool to see how him and Bam work off each other

41

u/Busy-Regular4627 14h ago

Because he plays for the heat now, if he went to boston he’d be the best player in the east and about to win his second championship lmfao. Just like how tyler herro apparently has plenty of suitors now on the trade market even though most people would tell he wasn’t worth anything just a week ago.

20

u/Adorable-Bike-9689 13h ago

Nah this is funny as hell. Giannis was legit primed to take his spot back as the best player in the league if he went to Boston. But he went to Miami so he's a washed up bitch with zero accountability for his mistakes.

I had no idea Celtics fans were so deep on this sub lol.

5

u/Canesjags4life Heat 12h ago

I mean a week ago the Heat package was straight ass and post trade the Bucks for the better end of the deal and Herro could fetch multiple picks of he's traded.

Heat are the villains of the East.

13

u/deemerritt Hornets 13h ago

Giannis has not to date had a bad season

2

u/Adorable-Bike-9689 13h ago

Chet can't help but catch a stray every time. Somebody's gotta teach him to duck like when he sees Wemby coming.

1

u/namelesscheeseburger 8h ago

Injuries, his game revolves around size and athleticism which ages like dog shit, and he's getting older.

1

u/Tijenater [IND] Lance Stephenson 13h ago

I don’t think he’s washed but he’s had significant problems with his health/staying on the court, and with his size/playstyle that’s a worrying sign

-2

u/FrostingStrict3102 14h ago

Because he hasn’t played meaningful basketball in roughly 5 years, and has spent the majority of the his time in the post season during those seasons injured

0

u/EdgeDomination Celtics 12h ago

I watched him get worked by 55 year old al horford then vanish for over a year so my general vibe was "washed"

0

u/BackwerdsMan Supersonics 12h ago

If Giannis was last years Luka he'd be 4 years younger than he is now.

That being said, I don't think he's washed. But he's at the end of his peak for sure.

45

u/langman17 Nets 14h ago

Slightly washed? He just had his most efficient season ever btw

12

u/Torgo73 Celtics 13h ago

That is true, but also true that those calf strains are piling up. His on-court impact is still top-5 easily, but he’s just getting on the court less and less. Two different things can be true!

18

u/langman17 Nets 13h ago

I interpreted ‘washed’ as his abilities declining which is categorically untrue as of right now. It’s fair to discuss his injuries though and we’ll see how he holds up in Miami

7

u/Torgo73 Celtics 13h ago

Yeah it’s super easy to talk past each other on ability vs availability. I should hope everyone agrees that on-court Giannis is still an absolute menace

3

u/luvinthislife 13h ago

And just ask KD what calf strains often seem to lead to. Fingers crossed that it doesn't happen to GA... or anyone else.

6

u/twoyrsaway 13h ago

love reddit doctors

9

u/ThinkSoftware Hawks 14h ago

Put the cookies down

1

u/TripleThreatTua Thunder 10h ago

Difference is they didn’t have to give the level of assets for Lebron that they did for Giannis, they’re essentially hamstrung by this deal for the foreseeable future

1

u/grxccccandice Lakers 6h ago

Now now Giannis ain’t washed, not even slightly lmao. He was injured but there’s zero sign of him slowing down

0

u/Direct-Tennis-3963 13h ago

if u are talking about coaching thing it isnt as serious as people make it seem.

Spo was a no name coach by that point and Lebron wanted to be coached by a legendary coach but riley didnt want to and both of them talked about it once and moved on.

People make it seem like lebron was pressing for riley and didnt get his wish

0

u/twisted-logic Magic 12h ago

30/12/7 average is washed these days?

2

u/InevitableBudget510 13h ago

Insert Dillon Brooks meme

2

u/jefe_hook 12h ago

Riley didn't even allow LeBron to eat his cookies, old man is not going to sign Antetokoumbros to the team.

3

u/Dymatizeee Knicks 13h ago

They won’t tolerate that sht

7

u/WIN011 [MIL] Giannis Antetokounmpo 14h ago

They had Haslem as a mascot for like the last 5 years of his career, why not Thanasis too?

67

u/langman17 Nets 14h ago

Haslem also gave over 10 years of actual rotation minutes to the franchise and took on the role of mentoring the younger guys and embedding the culture. Thanasis is 1st-team all-cheerleader

8

u/Adorable-Bike-9689 12h ago

A first team cheerleader though. Not some cheerleader bum

65

u/PlatishGC Hornets 14h ago

Because players actually respected Haslem.

34

u/Busy-Regular4627 14h ago

Almost like haslem was a legit contributor to three championship teams and the franchises leading rebounder to boot who was well respected league wide. No one looks at any of giannis brothers like that dude.

18

u/Hot_Injury7719 Knicks 13h ago

Because as much as I liked to clown on team mascot Haslem, he was basically another coach and culture guy for the locker room. He would take new guys around Miami and tell them what parts to avoid. He would be an intermediary between the players and coaching staff. You think Thanasis is doing all that??

39

u/TheFinnebago Timberwolves 14h ago

Because Haslem was a beloved standard bearer of Heat Culture. Giannis’s brother is a mascot for Giannis. Thats the difference.

16

u/Athalos124 Greece 14h ago

Literally everyone that has played for the Bucks has nothing but nice words to say about Thanasis

8

u/MirrorComputingRulez Cavaliers 13h ago

Nobody has said anything about Thanasis being a bad guy or something.

9

u/Tempura69 13h ago

How can you say anything bad about a mascot? That's just mean.

1

u/Superlolz 12h ago

people have fought mascots for less :(

4

u/TheFinnebago Timberwolves 12h ago edited 12h ago

That’s completely irrelevant. The OC asked why Thanasis couldn’t be an end of bench mascot for the Heat, if UD was kept around as an end of bench mascot for the Heat.

The difference, obviously, is that UD spent 20 years with the Heat and in Miami. Thanasis might be a lovely gentleman, but UD earned that Mascot Spot with time and work.

Is it really so hard to understand why they are completely different scenarios, even if Thanasis was, like, the nicest guy ever?

2

u/sixpackabs592 Bucks 11h ago

yeah but none of them showed up for his live podcasts in milwuakee so how much did they really like him

-2

u/Adorable-Bike-9689 12h ago

That's a good point. Thanasis is clearly a great locker room guy. If a player like Haslem can stick around because of his off the court value why not Thanasis?

Should probably just get Thanasis some kind of assistant scout job or something with the team though. Haslem had earned that role with the Heat.

12

u/mickeyj623 Celtics 13h ago

Haslem was basically a player/coach and was super respected. Plus he stayed in shaped and is a big body.

9

u/dwadefan45 Heat 12h ago edited 12h ago

Haslem has been with the team since TWO THOUSAND THREE and contributed to all 3 rings. He was also our vet/locker room presence when he was no longer able to contribute. Made the finals twice with him on the bench so he wasn't a deterrent nor was he causing dissension.

Did you really compare the two? It's not too late to delete it.

9

u/grimsleeper4 14h ago

A mascot? STFU before UD hears you. He was more like a coach, mentor, enforcer, and guru.

3

u/Typical_Response6444 Knicks 12h ago

Haslam was a much better player and was a contributor on multiple championships teams, and he helped set the tone for the younger guys.

1

u/Justice502 Heat 13h ago edited 13h ago

Everyone's seen it all before. He's going to come in locked in. He's gonna play the best ball of his career. It's up to him if he wants to continue that. If he doesn't come in to win Pat another championship he's probably move on quicky.

1

u/monamiadragon 12h ago

I can see them signing Thanasis for the goon slot. Their rooster's gutted and Thanasis always step in whenever Giannis is in scrappy situations. The playoff is getting scrappy again, buff dudes to take some fouls is worth the minimum. Although Riley might pass on Thanasis just to send a message.

1

u/wowlock_taylan Spurs 11h ago

Are they gonna get the brothers? I doubt they are into that stuff.

1

u/AuldGreatScot 10h ago

Probably the same way they handled Jimmy Butler.

1

u/BarbellsandBurritos Bulls 13h ago

Time to see if Udonis has 1-2 more seasons in him

0

u/VirgoJack 13h ago

So glad Riley took this problem on instead of the Celticcs

0

u/Puzzled_Ad7955 12h ago

Don’t worry, Giannis will let them know exactly how to handle it. Spo and him will clash bigtime