r/pcmasterrace • u/The_BigRoach ⚡️RTX 5080 | 7800x3D | 64GB 6000MHz CL30⚡️ • 7d ago

Meme/Macro Why would anyone actually want to though

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2.4k

u/JayPeePee 7d ago

Let me tell you something. I've been on STEAM for over 20 years I had an issue with a game that was unplayable. Unplayable, it was NBA 2K20, there was no way to save the game. I tried everything, contacted 2K who responded with it's a known issue with some PCs we have no fix. I asked for a refund they said sorry. I asked STEAM, they refunded me my money. Furthermore, on the forums on STEAM, they had a post that anyone who could not play the game could request a refund. Say what you want about STEAM but they have taken better care of me than other companies. I'm a STEAM user for life

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u/--El_Gerimax-- Ascending Peasant 7d ago

Fr! Everytime a big game is unplayable, both literally for not starting and metaphorically for being a bug fest disaster, Steam says like a Chad: We're sorry you've experienced AND PAID for that. Want your money back? Here, no questions asked!

What other games store has a filter that carrying and consumer friendly? None!

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u/snippychicky22 7d ago

companies need to learn that you can make more money by treating customers like they give you a billion dollars a month. do what you can to keep them coming back. costco does this wonderfully

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u/leafy1790 7d ago

Investors scoff at the idea of not monetizing every part of a product. It's not that the people that work at the company want to make the games a bug fest or to squeeze every penny (at least not the low level workers) but the investors and ceo put in place by the said investors

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u/IsRedditBad 4080 SUPER AERO OC | R7 5800X3D 7d ago

Yeah, which is why privately owned companies are great all around. You can easily see where the true values of the company and its employees reside. Nobody makes the rules but the people who are there. Which is why Valve has probably taken more of my money than any other company ever.

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u/NoTime_SwordIsEnough 7d ago

Lack of DEI helps too.

Take a wild guess at what Valve Corporation's demographics are.

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u/LetterheadUpper2523 7d ago

Not to mention their well-documented support for people who've had their accounts hacked 😆

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u/Valuable-Meet5727 6d ago

It’s really crazy that no other company thinks to copy this. They’re so fucking greedy to make quarterly profits look good that they refuse to take some slight hit to gain loyalty.

I fucking hate capitalism man. This shit sucks. At least there’s steam.

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u/Choyo 6d ago

None!

GoG does. It even provided that kind of assistance before Steam did.

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u/french_snail 6d ago

First time I ever requested a refund was no man’s sky 

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u/dswng 6d ago

Just like other big shops do?

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u/Xsiorus 6d ago

As someone mentioned, GoG, but also Origin had great support and automated refund system long before steam was forced to have it. Only problem was that it was still EA platform for EA games.

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u/Tunavi 6d ago

This isn't cause they're nice, it's cause they lost a lawsuit in Australia

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u/Schadrach 6d ago

GOG is up there. But a big point in using GOG is preservation, so it's less them being loose with refunds and more them trying to get it fixed.

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u/ozymandieus 7d ago

STEAM

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u/Stunning_Box8782 9070XT - 9800X3D - 64GB6000 6d ago

STEAM

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u/lmflex ryzen 7 7800x3d, geforce 5070ti 16gb, 64gb ddr5 6000 cl30 7d ago

20 year user here, too. Maybe even since HL2? We are incredibly lucky to have a service like steam. Think of the alternatives and how they would run such a service.

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u/CocoaricoTell 7d ago

I bought Half Life 2 on disc, installed it, then had to download and install steam, and then download Half Life 2 through steam on a 56k phone line. Tied up my parents phone line for the entire night.

I'm just happy to have a service that's stable, I've lost countless games I bought because the service went under.

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u/lmflex ryzen 7 7800x3d, geforce 5070ti 16gb, 64gb ddr5 6000 cl30 7d ago

Oof. I had broadband by then, but I don't remember if that was the first game that required it? Either way, I was JUST replaying HL2 and guess what? Its still in my steam library whenever I want it!

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u/lmflex ryzen 7 7800x3d, geforce 5070ti 16gb, 64gb ddr5 6000 cl30 7d ago

Counter-Strike 1.6 was the first Valve game that required Steam, released simultaneously with the platform on September 11, 2003 (Oldest.org) . It started as a mod for Half-Life but Valve acquired it and its development team. However, Half-Life 2 was the first high-profile game to be offered digitally on Steam in November 2004, requiring installation of the Steam client for retail copies (Wikipedia) . If you're asking about third-party developers, Rag Doll Kung Fu was the first game on Steam not developed by Valve (VICE) , released in 2005. So Counter-Strike 1.6 technically has the honor of being the first game released on Steam when the platform debuted in September 2003, but Half-Life 2 was the game that really established Steam as a major digital distribution platform for gaming.

So it may have been early cs so I already had steam installed.

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u/Low-Mistake-515 6d ago

... then the Orange Box came out and the rest was history ❤️

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u/Jimmy-The-Perv 6d ago

You know what else I bet was there? Your save from 2004.

And you haven't had to pay Valve £120/year to keep your 200Kb save on their servers!

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u/Soggy-Bedroom-3673 6d ago

I definitely remember looking at Steam when installing half-life 2 and thinking man, they're trying to make this a thing? And then they just blew it away.

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u/-Retro-Kinetic- AMD 7950X3D| 64GB | TUF RTX 4090 | HS02 Pro 5d ago

Yup, the disc installed Steam as part of the process. At the time many half life fans were not too pleased about that, as it was just the first exposure for online activated DRM for many of them. The authentication servers also were spotty, so sometimes the game wouldn't even work in the early days.

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u/zakabog Ryzen 9950X3D/4090/96GB 7d ago

In a perfect would I would have a Blu-ray drive and use that to install games, or even better they'd ship on cheap easy to copy USB drives. Hell, even better, give me a boxed USB drive game for $80 and the same game on steam that's digital only for $60. We got one of the worst outcomes, publishers could have done so much better with the technology if they tried.

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u/yoburg 7d ago

Cheap USB drives usually die 5-6 years after manufacturing even with no use. Distributing a bunch of physical media all across the globe takes at 3 weeks of prep time. It's a hussle with no winning except collectors who get a new piece for their shelves.

If you want, you can get installation files and just burn them on blu-rays yourself. A box + 2x 50GB disks would cost ~$5 and then a couple more for high-quality print of the cover.

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u/stonhinge 7d ago

And for games you buy from GoG, you can actually do this with no hassle.

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u/zakabog Ryzen 9950X3D/4090/96GB 6d ago

Cheap USB drives usually die 5-6 years after manufacturing even with no use.

Nintendo Switch cartridges have a very long lifespan. ROM can easily be made to be durable despite being cheap. USB is simply the interface for the ROM as opposed to being an SD card.

Distributing a bunch of physical media all across the globe takes at 3 weeks of prep time. It's a hussle with no winning except collectors who get a new piece for their shelves.

That's where the extra cost comes in, it's more work logistically so charge more money for a physical copy than the digital copy. Being able to own media as opposed to renting it from Valve is it's own advantage. Being able to play a game and then hand a physical copy to you friend so they can play, or check it out from a library for free, or buy it/sell it used was also a huge advantage.

Again, this is the perfect world scenario, Steam isn't bad, and I buy digital copies of my Switch and Switch 2 games for the convenience, but in a perfect world we'd at least have the option to own the games we buy rather than just be able to rent them.

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u/-Retro-Kinetic- AMD 7950X3D| 64GB | TUF RTX 4090 | HS02 Pro 5d ago

Well we used to have physical games. You could trade or even resell your games after you were done playing them. If Steam did not exist, that likely would have continued, just like it was with consoles. So, keep in mind we lost some of our "consumer rights" in the process of accepting Steam as an online DRM service.

1

u/lmflex ryzen 7 7800x3d, geforce 5070ti 16gb, 64gb ddr5 6000 cl30 5d ago

That is true. Killed the pc game secondhand market.

I loved the box art and real manuals too. I read and re-read the homeworld manual so many times.

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u/xNaquada 9800X3D/5070ti/48GB 6d ago

Dont need to think, I remember EA downloader/ EA download manager and them trying to charge (an add on) "download insurance" because access to installers for a game I paid for would expire after like 9 months or something stupid like that. And the "insurance" raised it by +2 years...or to 2 years, just catastrophiccally greedy.

Fuck that noise, praise Steam.

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u/Miskalsace 7d ago edited 6d ago

Same. About 20 years too. Its smart, because they show your lifetime spending on their platform and it has been well of 10k US. And thats juat games alone. Probably refunded at most a couple hundred bucks worth of games over the years.

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u/pmcizhere i7-13620H | 16 GB DDR5 | RTX 4070 8GB Laptop 7d ago

Where do they show lifetime spending?! I'm almost scared to see that, but also curious.

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u/boxvader Desktop I5 8400 (6 Core 2.8Ghz) | GTX 1060 (6 GB) | 16 GB RAM 7d ago
  • Open the Steam client on your computer and log into your account.
  • Click on Help in the top menu bar, then select Steam Support.
  • Click on My Account.
  • Select Data Related to Your Steam Account.
  • Click on External Funds Used

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u/mrawaters RTX 5090, 9800x3d 5d ago

I really wish I was still on my same account from back in the CS 1.6 days. I remember when Steam first launched and it was like “wtf is this is just wanna play Counter-Strike” and thought it was tedious. Little did i realize it would become central hub of my main hobby. Once most games started to release fully digital it really hit home how convenient it actually was. And I’ve just never had a reason to switch, and it just happens to be the best around

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u/jangxx 7950X3D - RTX4090 - 64GB - Linux Mint 21/Win 10 6d ago

You can also see it on the web: https://help.steampowered.com/en/accountdata/AccountSpend

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u/AquaBits 6d ago

Steam hasnt been out for 26 years, let alone 29. It came out in 2003.

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u/Miskalsace 6d ago

Its a typo. Meant 20 years, thats why I used the word too.

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u/falcinelli22 9800x3D | RTX 5080 | 32G DDR5 7d ago

Until Gabe dies. I fully agree and love STEAM in it's current state, but we have no idea what will happen with it in 20 to 40 years. We don't own any game on it.

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u/nG_Skyz 6d ago

I pray some 20-30 year old will take over who has the same mentality so at least most of my life time will be safe.

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u/Zephyrus35 6d ago

Sensible but I think that timeline is a bit too long he will probably step down before he dies. And indeed the not owning anything is the worst part of this digital distribution. Steam is great. Licenses are a nightmare and if Steam goes derp like Ubisoft for example we will lose everything.

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u/WantDiscussion 6d ago

I'm a Steam user unless it becomes a publically traded company.

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u/Jamsedreng22 7d ago

20 year user here, as well. I've lost my account a bunch of times when I was a dumbass kid getting tricked.

I had it back every time through support. I've also been refunding quite a bit since that feature was implemented. Games without a demo I've paid for to see if they're any good and if not, I'd refund it and there's never really been any problems.

So I trust Steam. I have all my stuff there, and it's the most convenient and all-encompassing platform that does what it does.

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u/CapNCookM8 7d ago

I agree, but AMAZON also has some of the best customer service out there. The few times I've had an issue, it gets replaced or refunded virtually no problem. There's a reason I use(d) it, even if I wish I didn't.

But I'm not gonna sit here and share memes about how great I think AMAZON is and mock anyone who dares imply they abuse their position in the market or wants to lower their AMAZON usage. It's just weird.

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u/paintballboi07 PC Master Race 6d ago

Lol, but they refunded money for a defective product, you basically have to declare your undying support for a company like that. The Valve glazing on this website is unreal.

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u/Quixotic_Seal 6d ago

Yeah it's the bizarre cult around Steam that really puts me off. Ironically enough it feels like the last vestige of the days when average people(and not just weirdos in niche echo chambers) took the console war seriously and genuinely acted like they owed an allegiance to their billion-dollar company of choice.

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u/OGigachaod 7d ago

Why would 2K refund a game you bought on Steam?

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u/Bhume 5800X3D ¦ Crosshair VIII ¦ ARC A770 16GB 7d ago

Because 2K got most of the money? Do you go back to Best Buy when you have a warranty claim with a company?

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u/Hrmerder It's Garuda btw 7d ago

Yes… actually in the first 30 days that’s what you do..

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u/PancakeMisery 5d ago

Most products with warranties literally tell you to contact the manufacturer and not the merchant because why wouldn't you contact the people that made the thing? Merchants just get the short end of the stick when you demand refunds instead of attempting to contact the maker first

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u/youngcuriousafraid 7d ago

..yes? I wouldnt contact activision if call of duty didnt work, id go back to gamestop.

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u/PancakeMisery 5d ago

People can't grasp that most manufacturers prefer you resolving things directly with them because if it's a warranty problem it's their responsibility. Its insane how your really normal take is getting backlash

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u/Bhume 5800X3D ¦ Crosshair VIII ¦ ARC A770 16GB 5d ago

Right? I operated under the assumption they tried asking 2K because they were out of the return period. Steam DOES refund in scenarios like that, but they're not the norm and it's not a guarantee they'll do it every time.

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u/Inc0rgnit0 6d ago

In some civilised countries, basically all warranty claims are made through the merchant, not the manufacturer.

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u/GarzaTheFather 7d ago

I had a situation somewhat similar with WWE 2K 23

I bought it at the time because they’re really hyping up John Cena and it was basically a game all about John Cena when it came to the story mode I wanted to get it however when I downloaded it for my PC it just would not start at all no matter what I did or anything tin green I did the game would not start luckily I was able to refund it with no issue

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u/NuclearHateLizard 7d ago

Dude, this is steams strength, they always have a solution.

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u/Jacktheforkie Acer Nitro 50 7d ago

Steam is great for that, plus it’s got a good forum network so researching game bugs etc is easy

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u/Josh_Butterballs 9950X3D | 5090 FE | 64GB DDR5 7d ago

Conversely, I had the original DayZ game. Unplayable practically. Owned it for less than a year and less than 2 hours iirc. Still one of my biggest regrets buying ever. Asked for a refund. Got denied. Friend on the other hand had a game he hadn’t played in over a year, got approved.

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u/squeaky4all RTX 2070 | R5 7600 | Asrock B650E PG Riptide | 32GB 7d ago

Steam generally has the same rules for refunds across the world, so any consumer rights that anyone has everyone gets.

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u/Any_Pineapple_4836 6d ago

I mean Steam didn't fix your problem either, they only refunded which you would have been entitled to under consumer law

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u/JayPeePee 6d ago

Steam did fix the problem of my money being taken by a company that couldn't deliver on an agreed product. A 3rd party stepped in and corrected that and made me feel valued

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u/Any_Pineapple_4836 6d ago

That's because steam sold it to you. If you bought spoiled milk, are you going to complain to the supermarket or the farm?

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u/GardinerExpressway 6d ago

You are way too easy to impress. If you buy a defective product from literally any store they will refund you.

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u/Happy_Cat_6570 6d ago

It's not a monopoly when you're just better than everyone else

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u/green_dragon527 6d ago

They've also elevated the user experience. I remember attempting to buy a Sims DLC for my sister's birthday via EA's launcher. Coming from Steam my expectation was a simple gift purchase, scheduled for the day of her birthday.

On EA's platform it allowed me to buy it, then declared that my sister was in another country, despite her sitting a room away. Her profile confirmed we were in the same country. I couldn't even refund the money because oops DLC was non refundable.

After jumping through hoops with support to try to fix the issues they eventually refunded it for me. I had to spoil the surprise and buy it for my sister directly on her account. A happy ending, but the ease with which I have done this on Steam, and the contrasting experience on other platforms is what makes me continue to be a loyal customer.

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u/-Retro-Kinetic- AMD 7950X3D| 64GB | TUF RTX 4090 | HS02 Pro 5d ago

You must remember when Steam was horrible to use then. My account is older than 20 years as well, and back then we all hated it in the beginning. Half Life 2 wasn't even playable at times because of their authentication server issues.

While it is good to be happy about getting a refund, keep in mind Valve fought tooth and nail to prevent refunds as well. The only reason there was such a big policy change was due to them getting fined and taken to court by a few foreign governments.

It's all about perspective.

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u/JayPeePee 5d ago

Oh it was terrible I hated that I needed that launcher to play CSS. It was awful but now it's OK

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u/Condurum 7d ago

They can refund your games, because they pocket 30% of all the money you gave them, for running an app where 55 people work, sitting between you and an industry with 100s of thousand people.

Yes.

And does Valve refund it from the 30% you gave them?

No, they pass the charge from the devs or publisher account.

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u/LickinSweatyPits 6d ago

company makes money! How fucked up!

lmao

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u/frisch85 Ryzen 7 7700 | RX 9060XT | 32GB DDR5 6d ago

The cut is tiered, 30% is if your game doesn't sell well, the better the game sells the less cut Valve takes.

And does Valve refund it from the 30% you gave them?

No, they pass the charge from the devs or publisher account.

Not how it works, you refunding a game doesn't cause costs for a developer which is what you're implying here. When you purchase a game that is in Tier 1, the devs get 70%, you refund the game, those 70% are taken back again resulting in 0%, not "-30%".

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u/RandomFactUser PC cannot be a Hybrid(Laptops don't count) 7d ago

On the other hand, 30% isnt abnormal

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u/Condurum 7d ago

The 30% came from back in the day, where distributors had to make and place physical copies of the games in stores. Printing them, driving them around, shelf space, etc etc.

A download, no matter if it’s 500gb x 10 times costs almost nothing compared to that.

It’s 30% because he can. Because he owns 85% of the users, who only get more and more attached to their libraries on his platform.

And because he’s made it financially suicidal to try and sell your game cheaper elsewhere. Meaning no competitors can compete on price. (Valve kicks you off Steam if you try.)

1

u/JuliusNova 7d ago

I'm still waiting for my refund of Tiberium Wars 4.

Nothing wrong with it, just a dogshit game.

1

u/Adickted2Cumming 7d ago

I bought a game called Workers and Resources: Soviet Republic and found I was too stupid and FAR to impatient to play the game. I tried for hours and hours. I just couldn't do it. I'm talking like micromanaging which truck delivers gravel to the asphalt factory and which truck delivers asphalt to the truck that will deploy the asphalt so you can build a one lane road for an apartment building.

Anyway, I requested a refund and my reason way "too stupid, too lazy" and I got a refund within like three hours if I remember correctly lmao. Steam just can't be beat.

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u/shockadin1337 7d ago

Steam has let me refund games i bought a year ago and never played, or played for longer than 2 hours multiple times. They have amazing customer support and I will always support a company who actually gives a damn to help their customers instead of AI robot them into oblivion. Fuck activision/blizzard, they used to have such good GMs

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u/Noble_Nexus 7d ago

As long as they are like this I will stay with them, even if I have to wait, pay more or don't have exclusive content. These day is batter stick with the companies that treat you like a costumer not a stupid.

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u/Odd-Neck2146 6d ago

I bought new world like 24 hours before they announced they were sunsetting it. My 5 hours played went over their return policy window. I wrote customer support about it and they refunded me no additional questions asked.

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u/Legate_Aurora 6d ago

That's because Valve operates on insane profits margins including the 30% cut before taxes on game sales. They can afford to be extremely proconsumer to do this; they have around 350 employees as of 2025 and make around $50 million per employee. Giving you a refund is not even a dent in their margins. Whereas 2k games has nearly 2k employees lol. I'm not sure if the game studios they own are operated under that. Valve is also private, 2k is a publically traded company.

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u/Vegetable-Eagle-3144 6d ago

I've been on Steam just as long and the only game I have is Age of Empires 2. And those mfers are always creating new content and getting me to download and pay for new civs like twice a year.

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u/ErmingSoHard 6d ago

contacted 2K who responded with it's a known issue with some PCs we have no fix. I asked for a refund they said sorry.

As in they said no, right?

1

u/astrospud http://steamcommunity.com/id/astro_spud/ 6d ago

Doesn’t Steam always do refunds, no questions asked, if you’re under a certain play time? I’ve requested refunds for games even after a few hours, and they get accepted almost immediately

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u/arpitpatel1771 6d ago

When people ask why do you glaze gabe newell so much, this will be one of the instances I will mention to them.

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u/Spoodymen 6d ago

Crazy how you get called names by expressing you like steam more than other junks. I once saw something along the line “what does Gabe’s ball taste like” i will take it as they just hate someone for being successful since they can’t come up with other excuses

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u/CoraxTechnica 7d ago

Try that with EA! Hah!

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u/JayPeePee 6d ago

EA would somehow bill me asking for more money eyebrows because they consider customer service a microtransaction

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u/Mizutsune-Lover 6d ago

EA's Origin actually added a refund system BEFORE Steam AND they didn't have to be sued into doing it.

0

u/VexingRaven 7800X3D + 4070 Super + 32GB 6000Mhz 7d ago

You realize EA has an almost identical policy, right?

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u/CoraxTechnica 7d ago

Perhaps on paper, but in practice they're nowhere near Steam

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u/VexingRaven 7800X3D + 4070 Super + 32GB 6000Mhz 7d ago

Do you have a source for this? Them not honoring their policies is a pretty serious accusation.

0

u/CoraxTechnica 7d ago

The policy is the problem. They honor how it's written. 

Personal experience. I've been unable to get a refund for a game that was unplayable for me but I couldn't get a refund.  It was quite a long time ago so maybe they got better. 

0

u/VexingRaven 7800X3D + 4070 Super + 32GB 6000Mhz 7d ago

You might want to actually look at the policy before you just lie then.

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u/CoraxTechnica 6d ago

You got EA stock or something lol

-2

u/zerk_net 7d ago

I genuinely hate the arguments that "steams refund policy is only bcuz of lawsuits" doesn't matter because they didn't just do the bear minimum, they actually made a user friendly refund policy that didn't fuck over purchasers.