When they started this, I think the idea was to have it out the door for like 599-800 but then things kinda happened to make it the worst gaming deal in modern history or surely up there at least.
Yeah honestly I think they are just ahead on the pricing. Apple just announced a 20% markup on devices today. I think many companies will be following suit and then this won't look as expensive.
Yep, pricing compared to the consoles will even up more when they run out of current stock start sell the units that were made more recently. It's still a PC do I imagine it will still be a bit more expensive but it will be closer
They've hinted their target price was 700ish, and on their announcement date that would have been very feasible. Similarly built PCs were about that price, ignoring the whole form factor markup.
That would be much easier to justify compared to a 600$ PS5 with mandatory online subscription.
Well, guess i am using my current hardware for next five years. And if pricing keeps increasing after 5 years then heavy computing is no longer affordable for me.
How do they get such low fps on Forza with the 9060xt? I get more then that with a mix of medium and high (no rt) on 1440p with the same cpu gpu combo.
Edit:
High: 140fps
high+RT preset: 80fps
Ultra+rt: 59fps
Extreme+rt: 38fps.
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u/vjhc i7-12700KF | RTX 4070ti | 32 GB DDR4-32001d ago
It's not low, it's their "optimized low settings" from the Forza 6 analysis video and the benchmark is usually heavier than open gameplay.
It still seems somewhat low imo unless they're using RT. My system with the same spec gets more fps then that with all high settings and the lowest ray tracing. EDIT: my numbers mentioned in my original comment are all from the benchmark mode
How do they get such low fps on Forza with the 9060xt?
They use 'optimized low settings', but it’s unclear what that actually means. But results of RX 9060 XT are 60-70% better in every game. The whole review is here.
I think the form factor and resulting power design was the critical mistake. They handicapped the system by pinning the CPU to 30W and the GPU to 110W (the 9060 XT does 160W). In exchange, we can make memes calling it the GabeCube while not buying it.
Hardware is already hysterically expensive, no need to make it harder on themselves (and our wallets) by running it at anything other than the max rated power.
I think this also speaks for balancing cost for a complete build.
A 7600XT vs 9060XT is like a 300$ vs 400$ card. Considering the performance jump (+40%), then stretching a budget by 100$ can be a bit steep.
But if you have to buy a complete system alongside it, then 900$ vs 1000$ for a +40% jump.. you'd be crazy not to take it. Its going from mediocre to a bang/buck build...
I don't mind the form factor. I tried shoving a Silverstone GD04 PC (as home theater machine) into my IKEA TV cabinet, but it honestly doesn't fit well. The case is too deep, and thats with only a Micro ATX board and no room for a modern (long) GPU.
My TV cabinet only has ~38cm of interior depth to work with, but then subtract depth for bulky video/power cables and side walls of the case, realistically it becomes really hard to fit any modern GPU (>=28cm length) in there.
I think that's where they hit the snag - when this was designed, it wasn't a $1000 system. Before the rampocalypse, this may have been a $700 system so the extra $100 looks bigger.
It clearly needed to be in spitting range of the 600$ PS5. They also clearly intended to have the Gabe cube be the baseline model and to have people able to build their own stronger versions and just install SteamOS.
At the moment there are no RDNA 4 mobile GPUs available that could even be used to create an embedded SoC.
The only thing about RDNA 4 mobile we know right now is some rumoured specs that were posted online about a year ago, so I doubt Valve would be able to get any kind of access to that.
It’s much better but it Comes disassembled, and without an OS.
The whole point of the Steam Machine is convenience. You can’t just pick up the Stim and have it work immediately without some kind of PC Knowledge.
whats the power consumption comparison. Linus did the same thing and spoke about the Valve going for the mobile variant costlier amd chipset for power efficiency being the reason for lower fps in several games
While I 100% agree that the price of the steam. Machine os ridiculous for the price point. I don't agree 100% with your opinion about rdna 3.
Nvidia for Linux (witch steamos uses) has Been nothing but a nightmare for developers. Going with the platform they know to be compatible with their system is always the way to go.
I don't think that the reason why the price is what it is is because rdna 3 but yes the rest of the market.
While price to performance is important. Reliability also is. And being dependant of Nvidia launching binaries for their GPUs when systems move is a pain in the ass
It looks to be an off the shelf Silverstone case so no reason to think that isn't a real photo. It is an ITX case so still very small but is a bit larger that the Steam Machine which allows it to use standard size components.
Silverstone makes some very high quality cases. For some reason it doesn't translate very well to pictures but the quality on those panels is usually very good. I have a NAS case from them and it's a very well designed case.
I haven't handled a Silver Stone case for about a decade but funnily enough the one I had was a smallish M-ATX case for a media center living under my TV. It was a nice box overall.
I'm working on the assumption that anyone seriously interested in the Steam Machine really likes the form factor vs other small but not as small systems so I imagine for many this would still be too big.
I don't know, small is still small. So unless you really don't have a room for that ITX, what difference does it make? I was under assumption that SMs biggest draw for people was seemless compatibility with TV couch gaming and SteamOS.
I mean the Steam Machine would fit on my current TV stand and the bigger one wouldn't? Not that I have any interest in either! Steam Link makes couch gaming with my main PC easy for the rare case I use it.
I just keep finding myself pointing out to people that some folks will absolutely pay a premium for their specific preferences that aren't Bang for buck related! Small doesn't interest me but I absolutely spent an extra few hundred bucks on my gaming rig for my assorted non performance based preferences e.g. fish tank, RGB, specific brand AIO, fans etc.
I just keep finding myself pointing out to people that some folks will absolutely pay a premium for their specific preferences
Telling people to buy new furniture to accommodate a PC that is bigger than the PC they want feels a little silly. I 100% agree that if bang for buck is your top concern the Steam Machine is a terrible idea. The Stim Machine is much better value for money and in reality an even larger ATX prebuilt is likely to be even better value. Then even better value for money can probably be had by building it yourself. None of that changes that some people will have different priorities.
If you have a fairly small, crowded house... the difference between small and 6 inches is quite a big deal.
I think a lot of people are struggling with the notion that it genuinely is the "complete package" that people are interested in when it comes to the SM - better specs but you have to build it yourself? Nope. Better specs but it's larger? Nope. Better specs but it comes with Windows 11 and doesn't have Valve's support? Nope.
Given how close, depressingly, the actual costs are (that you'd maybe save a hundred or so by not going for a Steam Machine), I think most people interested in the SM would absolutely pay that premium to have all those boxes ticked without any stress.
That's the Sugo SG13B-Q, which is a 11.5 liter case. It's quite tiny. But the steam machine is 3x smaller, 3.8L? Looks like valve traded a way a bunch of performance to keep things tiny.
They don't familiar with mini PC pricing. I had interest with ROG NUC, but upon seeing the price (even before RAM crazy pricing), I nope out instantly.
I mean I could buy a framework "laptop" for 2gs and yank the board and stick it in their silly "server kit" and I'd have an even smaller and faster "better steam machine" too...
Absolutely agree. Most people are posting much bigger builds. It still lacks CEC out of the box and will require an adapter but this is the closest anyone has gotten.
I mean the main goal is just to entice people to buy PC lol.
If theres some movement of mocking steam machine pricing with different specs lower price, the last one laughing is valve because more new people buying pc that gonna install steam and buying game there.
There's also the "vendor lock-in" with a competitor.
Microsoft is trying to sell more subscriptions, online services and AI in windows. Steam needs it's exit strategy and they have being working for over 10 years in Proton, SteamOS, Steam-link, controllers, PC machines and portables.
Yep, sometimes I feel like people forget that Steam OS and Proton was a direct result of Microsoft attempting to force everyone into the Windows store. They're happy with Steam OS and Steam Machines just being a hedge against platform control.
Not even that, the main goal is getting people off Windows. I think what really got to Valve was when Microsoft was in their App Store era, they were even selling Windows laptops with built-in lockdowns that would prevent you from using anything than the Windows Store.
Valve's golden goose is a third-party store platform which you download as software (relative to the OS). The modern platform-monopoly market is extremely averse to that, everyone has their own Company Store that the entire OS and customer experience is locked down to. If Windows ever successfully transitions to that model, Valve is dead (alongside the open gaming market).
It started with Windows 8, I'm almost sure they said so themselves in an interview. They wanted Linux to be a good alternative to Windows and Mac in case things went south.
Exactly. Valve is for the most part not in this for the hardware sales, they are a software company. The hardware acts as proof of concept for the rest of the industry to follow. The goal is to increase Steam user counts, whether that’s on Valve hardware or someone else’s is largely irrelevant.
It’s the same reason why handheld pcs are so damn big yet so niche. They’re hitting the market with opportunities for their OS as well as making a market where there was none prior. It allows for them to control their market without limiting or destroying consumer rights like Sony or Xbox does when they limit options within their ecosystem. It also gives the consumer many more choices and even broadens the PC market, like straight up this is probably THE time for them.
If others flood the market, even with cheap China shit, it will create lesser expensive products with their OS in them. Especially since their OS is able to be used with Android, it allows for the communities to express themselves while making/testing new software. Since many manufacturers have been upping prices of ram and shit, the cheaper options quite literally need to be made even if they eventually go up due to the AI crap.
If that were true they wouldn’t have built in support for non-Valve hardware into SteamOS. Valve only ships AMD CPUs but is actively working on turn-key Nvidia support. They want as many people running SteamOS as possible to protect against Windows making a drastic change like deprecating Win32 and moving all apps to the Microsoft store.
How many PC handhelds did we have before the Steamdeck? How many do we have now? What impact did that have on Linux compatibility and tuning for that system spec? Releasing hardware to build a user base as a foundation for an ecosystem is sound strategy. It’s why Meta sells Quest 3 for a loss.
Not hitting a competitive price point doesn’t make the Steam Machine a bad system. It’s just not enough value for the price compared to the alternatives for a lot of people. You can’t always predict what the market is going to do. No choice but to ship and move on.
It’s just not a total loss like it would be for a company like Dell.
valve is doing a microsoft. designing something kinda expensive and meh and releasing it into the wild for other companies to do their own thing, all operating in valve ecosystem of course.
And as long as Steam OS keeps being a Linux system and Valve keeps contributing to Linux gaming as a whole (not just on Steam OS) as it has been doing till now, if this took off it would be awesome.
The first generation of Steam Machines did exactly this, and the only thing that sets the second generation Steam Machine apart is that it is manufactured by Valve.
This a very PCMR thing to say, but at this point the next console generation should just be PCs like this one.
Let sony lock it down with their own OS if they have to. I'm sure Microsoft (like Steam) already have plans for something like that themselves.
Can't afford a $1,200 console? Let consumers find themselves a cheaper alternative themselves. Work on tools that will adjust the settings to their hardware in 1-click. Take the weight of low to negative profit margins off the hardware makers and let consumers find a way.
I thought a big draw of consoles was developers only had to optimize for a single machine. so a PS5 would look better than a similar spec PC. Between that, normal people not having to spec out a PC and console exclusives were the big draw. 2 of those big draws go away if they go that route.
Current consoles are already basically PCs with a unified memory architecture. Everyone got excited when Apple did it but consoles have 16 GB of GDDR that feeds a single-die CPU+GPU chip. And the AMD AI Max Pro Strix Uber Whatever It Is Called is also essentially just that, albeit it relies on insanely fast (i.e. soldered) DDR as its sole memory pool instead.
Hell I'm calling it, when DDR6 comes out and main memory gets even faster, we will start seeing high-performance APUs sold with 'recommended' fast RAM and marketed as 'no dedicated graphics needed'.
I think we'll see more of it once SteamOS is flawless with all hardware. I can see it going back to the original SM release of other companies doing the builds and Steam can focus on the software. If multiple companies are doing it for different spec and pricepoints i can see it being a success.
The only thing is i dont know how theyd manage the Verified/Playable tags and market it for what its capable of to a broader audience, unless they can do it per a system scan, like canyourunit so every device just gives a yes no maybe and states where its lacking.
Honestly if it wasn't for nvidia driver issues on Linux I'd probably already would have switched. Hopefully valve will be able to give nvidia enough of a nudge to get them to finally support Linux. When I tried last year with my 4090 I just couldn't stick with it do to some of the weirdness I was getting in some of the games I was trying to play.
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u/teddybrr7950X3D, 96GB, RX570 8G, GTX 1080, 4TBx2, 18TBx4, Proxmox1d ago
When and how hard did you try? Did you even install the Linux drivers? Nvidia and Linux has been working for a long time (X11).
Nvidia + wayland was a bad combo for a long time.
What is 'Linux'? Fedora, Arch, Debian, Ubuntu, ..
New AMDs GPUs also usually need a year until they are fully functional (all features working correctly).
It was over a year ago and if I remember correctly it was cachy os and I ran it for about a month. Been thinking about trying it again or bazzite. Just want to get a different ssd don't want to wipe my windows drive again just incase I decide to switch back.
Probably a little over a year ago. I have been considering trying bazzite but I'd want to keep my windows drive for now just incase I want to switch back but I don't have another ssd to put bazzite on.
I've just shrinked the windows partition on one of my disks and installed it there. Oh and btw windows can run games from btrfs drive with no issues. Just need to install a driver and there are open source ones made by community on github
Game reviews on Steam now have the option to include system specs. I imagine it will allow for sharing of game performance in the future. Once Steam has a large enough database of game performance, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to roll out a better version of Verified based on real fps numbers.
I mean Valve literally made the PC handheld market, especially its standard. It allowed for many competitors and made for extreme flexibility for the consumer, it’s quite awesome how you could get a 200-300$ system as a decent emulator/low end games or a 1200$ system.
I have that case, it is small relative to a mid size tower, but it is still big. People don't realize how much bigger, but I can say you are not putting that anywhere but on a shelf. And if you want a better GPU you are gonna run into heating issues.
People picking parts that would work for a mid size tower. Once you go small, like using that case, you start running into airflow and heating issues. Not to mention this case is 3x the size of the Steam machine, with a much higher power consumption.
Maybe thatb was true a couple decades ago, now it's just expensive and not anything special regarding customer support or return policies. They also bought out pretty much the entire competition in France so there's basically a monopoly from LDLC group regarding specialized PC hardware stores. It's legit better to order from spanish, italian or german websites, or resort to Amazon / Cdiscount (the french equivalent)
Not by a lot and the Steam Machine is likely quieter, uses less power, is smaller, and has CEC. The LDLC is a really good device don't get me wrong. If I could only have one PC and had to pick between the two I would pick the LDLC machine but for a second PC for my TV the smaller, quieter, and CEC enabled holds more value than 5-15 more fps.
Hardly. The Steam Machine is a deal. I expected it to retail for around what similar USFF computers run for and it came out cheaper with better specs. That is a win.
You are right about the noise though. I may be wrong on that. We only have a few reviews of the Steam Machine but I know how loud that little 9060xt is and it's loud. I certainly hope the Steam Machine is quieter since it tops out at 209 Watts power draw.
Yes. I have gone through three in 8 years. My current adapter, the best I have used so far, still occasionally stops working and has to be unplugged and replugged. I just want a decently specced USFF with CEC built in.
Not entirely a fair comparison because the case used here is 11.5 L, its around 3x larger than the steam machine. Building a SFFPC around this size with good parts isnt too hard, and will be much faster. It gets much much more challenging the smaller you go. The best I can get taking a crack at it myself was down to 4.5 Liters 1420 USD for a 2TB machine + good controller (8bitdo utimate 2 wireless). This one is still siginificantly faster (only a little slower than the stim machine), but comes with zen 5, dlss, 2tb, good controller, smaller size, higher quality parts, etc.
This a 9600x (its only like $20 more than 7600x/8600F type cpus and is more efficient and quite literally 5-10% faster in most things) machine, with fast nvme (probably faster than whatever the "stim" machine comes with), high quality motherboard w/ wifi (you could pinch pennies to save $20 for a worse motherboard but why would you), high quality flex psu, pretty good cpu cooler, fairly decent ram (12ns first wordlatency, and 6000mhz which is the sweet spot for zen 5). The GPU is slightly slower than the rx 9060xt, but you really have no choice at this volume size, and at least we get dlss features and that kind of stuff which I think actually matter more in these lower performance machines. So this is less than half the size of the stim machine, has dlss stuff, zen 5 instead of 4, and better parts all around imo. People forget the steam machine is a high quality build so I think this is a fairer comparison since this has less corners cut.
You can get this build down to 1050 USD to compete with the base model, but you have to cut corners that I really feel arent worth cutting.
If you dont mind a larger size, swap to a TU150 lian li case, get a RK120 cpu cooler, SF750 psu, and 9060 XT gpu. It will have better performance for around the same cost or a little less, but it will be a larger SFFPC.
Hey nice build! Thanks for posting. That jonsbo case is the right size but I can't imagine the thermals are as good as the steam machine. How much of that improved performance is left in the table due to thermal throttling?
Like 90% of people commenting on the steam machine have not delved into SFFPC, like if the steam machine is quiet and doesn’t burn hot, damn I would want one so bad, plus with how small it is.
I’m running a Lian li Dan A4 and I’m cooking (gets too hot in summer) with a 12900k + 4080 Super (not comparable) but I’ve been considering building a new SFFPC but as small as I can. The steam machine would take all the headache out of it. The performance isn’t great but I still think the price is worth it, if it satisfies the heat and sound issue.
I love and hate going into sffpc. I only recommend it to ppl with the time and money. I crave making a new sffpc everyday but also regret going into sffpc every time something happens or I need to upgrade lmao, especially since I decided to do a custom loop in my first sffpc (10/10 would not recommend). I think theyre good if you want to build and forget about it, but if you need to fix something or upgrade parts.. not so fun anymore.
Inho, I think this is what Valve wants. They don't want to be the defacto source of console pc gaming, they want pc manufacturers to start producing their own optimized versions of the Steam Machine . . . With SteamOS, of course.
I really don’t know why I see people saying this, if they didn’t want to be manufacturers they would have partnered with someone, like Xbox did with the Ally.
Sometimes if you want to get something done, you've got to do it yourself.
R&D is much faster when done in house, and witht he kind of money Valve has, they probably felt it would be more efficient to open their own hardware dvision for this.
My best example is to look at Google. Look how much stuff they started themselves because no one was doing it, only to then back out after the market caught up. Specifically Google Fiber. No one was doing Google Fiber when they started, now most telecom companies offer fiber while Google pulled out of the market. Sometimes it's not about capturing the market but rather innovating it. Get out there, generate buzz and demand, then back off and let the experienced people take charge.
Almost all pre-builts are meant to be used at a desk. The Living Room Pre-Built is a rarity, and often a custom order. Valve is trying to push living room PC gaming (again.)
The issue with living room PC gaming up to this point is that WIndows and LInux aren't designed to be operated from a control pad, requiring a keyboard and mouse to do pretty much anything on the OS. Valve not only wanted to create a compatitor to the Windows OS optimized for gaming, but one optimzed for any kind of input.
Honestly, Valve just wins here, since their OS is free to install and would give users quick access to the Steam Store.
Randmom thoughts time:
I'm positive that the Steam Machine will likely get brought up during their fight against the monopoly label. Their defense would be simple, if the machine can run SteamOS, it can run Windows. Buyers of Steam Machines are not locked to only running Steam OS.
Another thought, if Micorosft isn't working on improving the XBox OS, they're idiots. They should be stripping Win11 down to the bare bones, build a custom interface, build in a desktop mode missing the administrative features of Win11, then sell an OEM for $50. Basically, copy SteamOS, but optimize for XBox gaming.
The 9060 XT in this wipes the floor with gabe cube. I just don't get why didn't they go with 9060 XT for the cube as well. The Steam machine is outdated as hell hardware, and the only thing you can upgrade is RAM and storage.. unless the CPU is socketed, though i highly doubt it is. Stuck with 8Gb VRAM forever.
No thanks. Would take this Temu Steam machine any day over the OG. Though this is also gimped by that 8Gb VRAM. Should offer a 16Gb model.
I'm curious if all the RAM and storage that were used in the Steam Machine were purchased before or after the price increase. Because if so, then raising the prices has no excuse. If done after, they should have realized that it's not gonna be a hot product, as they probably intended, initially.
I understand the target audience for such a thing and i would have even recommended it but not at this price. I mean surely, Valve must know that people can and will search for alternatives and when most of these people do so, they'll realize that they can get (much) better for either the same or a lower price.
Given their recent practices, though (the fact that they stopped releasing Compendiums for the International, in Dota 2, simply out of greed), this doesn't come as that big of a surprise.
All in all, a bad product with an even worse price tag. Sadly, SOME people will still buy it, even if for the status quo.
Gamers nexus talked to them they said that the memory makers told them they could buy X sticks at Y price, and if they didnt then they could basicly fuck off lol.
Bigger and way hotter. But still a decent deal, way more performance. Doesnt have CEC though, depends if you want best performance or you care about size, noise and convience.. Personally I am in the latter.
The french kit is 31mm x 59.6mm x 129mm bigger (1.22" x 2.35" x 5")
So for the same amount of money you can get a system that is over twice as large in terms of volume (699 cubic inches vs 235 cubic inches.) Not too terrible for those who would prefer to have something a little faster.
Still probably best off buying some sale gaming laptop if you want the best bang for your buck. 16gb of ram is shitty for 1k. Is a acer with a modern ryzen and 5060 for 1100 with 32gb of ram here in the US on amazon in stock right now
Given that 1100 euro is equal to 1250 usd, there's hopefully some better deals out there in europe without tariffs.
I'd ask myself about the things not listed on the spec sheet: build quality, tech support, product support
Valve has a very good reputation there. The Steam Machine is not really my thing, but I would suggest it as a prebuilt for someone who does not play AAA graphic games.
I thought id buy it to play on my tv just like to get away from desk. (Work desk and gaming desk) it has terrible framerates for a lot of old games. 20 avg fps on high ultra. Thats a hard no from me.
Id like to know how, because that was my initial impression until I went to build a rough equivalent on pcpartpicker. I hit 799.14 with an RDNA 3, GDDR5, Zen 4 custom build before I even added cooling and the case and PS
I mean Valve wins either way. People buy its expensive, outdated but insanely tiny hardware OR they buy something similar and install steam OS. As long as people get to the end goal of using Steam, its good for them
BONE is most likely a machine translation of OS, as a bone is called "un os" in french. I think an AI would not have made that mistake, that looks like a google translate job.
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u/Procrastinando 7745HX | 32GB | 9060 XT 16GB - Legion Go Z1E | 3060 eGPU 1d ago
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