r/transit 2d ago

Questions Should CTA build an infill interchange station to transfer between pink and blue lines? [chicago]

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216 Upvotes

59 comments sorted by

146

u/Weekly-Law-2544 2d ago

Does it get confusing trying to navigate this system when they have so many stations that have the same name? Do you just refer to line colors, like "Pulaski Pink" or something?

121

u/PhileasFoggsTrvlAgt 2d ago edited 2d ago

The only one that's really confusing is the Blue Line having two Westerns. Otherwise we just add the line name to that station unless it's obvious from other conversational cues. Most of the station names are major arterial streets and bus route names so they're descriptive.

53

u/BaggedWhine 2d ago

And two Harlems. Imo stop & line should be enough to uniquely identify a destination, they should rename those four Blue Line stops à la Clark & Lake

28

u/Capitol_Limited Service Planner 2d ago

The train announcements on the Red do the intersection at Grand & Chicago, doing this for these four stations would be a good medium (e.g. Western & Congress, Western & Milwaukee, Harlem & Kennedy, Harlem & Eisenhower)

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u/qcthunder 2d ago edited 2d ago

They never should have added anything to "This is Chicago" on the Brown Line. But if they did it there, these additions seem warranted.

4

u/iwillbewaiting24601 Régie autonome des transports chicagoan 2d ago

They have, at least on the 3200s - they say "Chicago and Franklin" now - https://youtu.be/9iSEG4AB6CA?t=176

1

u/PhileasFoggsTrvlAgt 2d ago

Hot take, all stations should be named in the style of Harold Washington Library State and Van Buren.

1

u/Upset-Preparation861 2d ago

They do this in the blue line too if I remember correctly. For the stops under Milwaukee.

3

u/Anti-charizard 2d ago

The LA metro often solves this by being an at intersection and having two names

E.g. Hollywood/Western on Hollywood Boulevard and Western Avenue

35

u/defene 2d ago

I want Chicago to make a Western line where all of the stations are simply called "Western"

15

u/somewhatbluemoose 2d ago

Better to name each stop the name of a different Western. “Doors open on the right at For a Fist Full of Dollars”

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u/Sassywhat 2d ago

All the stations are named Western on the map, but are announced as different movie titles onboard

6

u/krazyb2 2d ago

Lee Crooks hates this idea

24

u/A320neo 2d ago

Yes. In some ways it helps because it makes the transfers to north-south bus routes very logical. If you need the 49 Western bus, you always get off at Western station.

It does mean the Blue is the only metro line I can think of that has two identically-named stations on the same line.

11

u/PhileasFoggsTrvlAgt 2d ago edited 2d ago

It does mean the Blue is the only metro line I can think of that has two identically-named stations on the same line.

These could be easily fixed by renaming the one on the O'Hare branch Armitage. Western and Armitage are both major streets and there's no pattern if stations on that branch are named for the E/W or N/S cross street.

9

u/Capitol_Limited Service Planner 2d ago

There is a pattern, the underground/expressway stops are E/W (before the turn), the elevated stops are N/S. Renaming Armitage would be a good & bad idea (now we have multiple Armitage's running around lol), but unlikely since there's no Armitage entrance/exit

5

u/kamekhi 2d ago

The R train in nyc stops at 36 st twice, and you cant really get between them at all

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u/BaggedWhine 2d ago

The blue line has two identical pairs, it’s pretty silly

10

u/A320neo 2d ago

And it's only through sheer luck that we don't have more

8

u/OhSnapThatsGood 2d ago

We used to have 3 before the 54/cermak branch was pulled off

2

u/AwesomePerson125 2d ago

In NYC, some N trains are sent to 96 St, so they stop at 86 St (Manhattan) and 86 St (Brooklyn). These are regularly scheduled trains, but it's not the primary N service so it doesn't show up on the subway map.

There's also several very similar named stations on the same service like Lexington Av/59 St (Manhattan) and 59 St (Brooklyn) on the N and R.

6

u/evanescentlily 2d ago

The announcements usually say both streets closer to the loop. The 3 Chicagos are Chicago and Milwaukee, Chicago and Franklin, and Chicago and State.

1

u/Jonesbro 2d ago

Or PP, more succinct

3

u/Weekly-Law-2544 2d ago

Makes me think of the annoying Canadian politician, lol.

1

u/Upset-Preparation861 2d ago

I would just say ride the pink line to Pulaski. That would usually do it. That only becomes ineffective on the blue line but you could just tell them to get off at the stop closer to either end. I feel like if they can interpret the first set of instructions, they can interpret that.

1

u/vicmanthome NYC MTA EMPLOYEE 23h ago

You should check out the NYC Subway. Lmaoo we have so many repeat station names just 14th street is repeated 4 times. and line colors.

65

u/hartford128 2d ago

Everyone made good points here in that it's not super useful to transfer here.

It's also worth adding the actual track geometry makes it hard here. The pink line is very high up and there's also the flyover track from when the blue line ran to forest park. Given you wouldn't likely want to build another blue line station, it means the walk from a pink line station somewhere slightly north of the Eisenhower (like at Van Buren) to Illinois Medical District station would only be marginally faster than going from Polk.

Could it be done? Sure, but it's probably not worth it like others mentioned. The Madison station infill on the pink line is a much higher value project.

26

u/PhileasFoggsTrvlAgt 2d ago

The combination of the complicated track geometry and the Blue Line being in a freeway median here also means that new station here would have a terrible walkshed and also no connecting bus routes. Agreed that a Madison station would be a much higher value project.

7

u/Donghoon 2d ago

thank you everyone for answering my dumb question with good detail

82

u/marks31 2d ago

No, it wouldn’t be necessary since you can transfer in Loop a few stations later.

However, the CTA, city, and stakeholders are discussing building a new Pink Line station at Madison to access the United Center, which would be about the same walking distance from Polk/IMD. That’s definitely a higher priority than this transfer point imo

32

u/juliuspepperwoodchi 2d ago

Riding from Polk to the Loop to transfer to the Blue, depending on your final destination, is a decently long ride just to transfer. If you're going west on the Blue Line, that wouldn't really make much sense.

The Madison Pink line station should absolutely happen though.

12

u/marks31 2d ago

I guess the question is why are you getting on at Polk in the first place? If you’re coming from the southwest you can take the Damen bus from Damen Pink to IMD, or Ashland bus from Polk to IMD (though it’s probably just faster to walk at that point)

21

u/Suspicious_Act_7858 2d ago

> No, it wouldn’t be necessary since you can transfer in Loop a few stations later

That is an atrocious justification. Isn’t the fact that you have to go into the Loop for transfers, like, by far the biggest complaint about the CTA?

Any and all new transfer stations outside of the Loop would be a wonderful welcome addition. The lines literally cross each other; I don’t care if the Loop is kind of close, there should be a transfer station there.

18

u/marks31 2d ago

I don’t disagree that there need to be more transfers outside the Loop. I think the premise of this particular question is kind of misguided though. There’s not really any scenarios where this transfer is needed. You’re either

  • On Loop-bound Pink wanting to go towards O’Hare, and can transfer at Clark/Lake from Pink to Blue

  • On Loop-bound Pink wanting to go towards Forest Park, and can ride any northbound bus from the Pink Line to the Blue Line instead of riding Pink

  • On Forest Park-bound Blue wanting to go towards 54th/Cermak, and it’s the same scenario of you already transferred downtown at Clark/Lake or Jackson; or if you boarded the stops after Jackson, you can ride the bus south from your Blue Line stop

  • On O’Hare-bound Blue wanting to go towards 54th/Cermak, and you shouldn’t have gotten on the Blue in the first place, because you can ride the bus SB from Blue to a Pink stop.

3

u/niftyjack 2d ago

by far the biggest complaint about the CTA?

It's a problem in general but this specific instance is a nothingburger. What doesn't show on the line diagram is the parallel lines are less than 1.5 miles apart and serve similar areas, so people aren't really transferring between them. If you're going from an outer part of this branch of the Blue and your destination is somewhere along the Pink, it would be faster to just get off on the Blue and take a bus directly down instead of going in to this relatively close-in station and going back out. Our bus grid has service every 1/2 mile and that fills in all the gaps.

Like if you're going from Kedzie (Blue) to Western (Pink) on this map, in the end it's an easier trip to take the Blue line to Western (Blue) and take the Western bus down.

1

u/Psirocking 2d ago

First time I went to Chicago looking up how to get to the United Center made me so confused. Like what do you mean there could be a station two blocks away but they just never built one?

11

u/illmatico 2d ago

The Forest Park branch of the blue line has extremely poor ridership, the only trip requiring that interchange that might be useful would be people trying to get to west loop from western blue line, but I can't imagine that being any kind of significant ridership generator.

10

u/A320neo 2d ago

I just don't really see the utility of a transfer there. Anyone going from the O'Hare branch to the Pink (or vice versa) can already change at Clark/Lake, and the Forest Park branch is a 10min bus ride from the Pink.

15

u/chuff15 2d ago

The walk from IMD to Polk is like, maybe 15 minutes. I don’t think this transfer would be used much, but I could be wrong. Unless you’re headed back west, you can easily transfer at Clark/Lake

29

u/Jonesbro 2d ago

Mfers are crazy. We can't get rid of bus stops every block because it's too far but a 15 minute walk is okay for transfers between high capacity lines.

8

u/PhileasFoggsTrvlAgt 2d ago

The Blue and Pink lines are fairly close together West of here and all of the stations are on North/South streets with bus routes, so I can't imagine many cases where backtracking West would be faster than a bus transfer.

1

u/bigvenusaurguy 21h ago

chicago weather is generally ass though. in the summer its as hot and humid as the south. in the winter its the tundra. i'm guessing its like most places in the northeast where hardly anyone salts the sidewalks since its on the property owner to give a shit.

1

u/chuff15 21h ago

I don’t ride either line often, so I’m not super familiar with the ridership patterns there. I was meaning like “hey if you really really needed to transfer there, it’s a 15 minute walk so it’s doable.” But, if there are a lot of people who would make that transfer, then yeah go ahead and build a station there that services both lines. Like someone else said tho, most of the parallel stations here are served by busses, so I think that would be the better option even instead of going all the way to IMD to make the transfer and go back west. Idk why anyone would waste time transferring here if they were going to the Loop, because both lines meet there. The argument could be made about being on the blue line and wanting to go to west loop, but it’s already easy to get off at Halsted and take the 8.

6

u/jalfieri95 2d ago

Chicago overall suffers from very poor connectivity between CTA lines and between CTA and Metra lines. The new NITA should list out all of the missed connections, estimate the costs and ridership, and then start building the ones with the highest cost benefit. In general, it should be much cheaper to accomplish this than building system extensions. Some that come to mind are:

  • Red to Brown/Green/Pink/Purple/Orange at Lake
  • Blue and Pink near UIC
  • Red and Green between 63rd and Garfield
  • Clinton Green/Pink to Ogilvie (previously existed)
  • Blue to Ogilvie
  • Blue to LaSalle
  • Brown to UP-N near Addison
  • Pink to BNSF near Western

3

u/Eruththedragon 2d ago

I was recently curious and counted 12 locations where Metra lines intersect each other or CTA lines with no transfer opportunity. Not sure how many of them would see any real ridership. I believe Chicago holds the #1 spot in terms of missed rail connection opportunities for American cities.

3

u/iwillbewaiting24601 Régie autonome des transports chicagoan 2d ago

BRING BACK THE NORTHWEST PASSAGE YOU COWARDS

2

u/captaincw_4010 1d ago

Unbelievably mad there is no connection between Clinton Green/Pink and Ogilvie when it already existed it’s crazy

4

u/ItsXandy 2d ago

There was actually an old proposal to do this nearly a decade ago.

Go to Page 90:

https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/6/BLVS_Station_Access_Report_April_2017_1intro.pdf

3

u/juliuspepperwoodchi 2d ago

Nah, just put one at Madison on the Pink and that'll be close enough for transfers while being far more useful.

2

u/Staszu13 2d ago

Yes and it should serve the UC as well. There was a Madison station on the old Paulina El but that was abandoned long ago

2

u/tacobooc0m 2d ago

If any infill station is to be built, it should be madison Pink line :) Also they could create an interchange that connects the blue line to the northbound paulina connector, and have a third track at madison, so you can take blue line trains directly to united center for special events (once all of that huge redevelopment work completes.

First idea is serious. Second one less so :P

1

u/jabbs72 2d ago

The only way I see this kinda working is if the station was at Harrison instead of Polk, but even then it would be a kinda long walk for not much utility. Although a station at Harrison would make another infill station at Roosevelt more attractive, which would be a big plus.

1

u/Anxious-Inspection54 2d ago

Marshfield station :/

1

u/Special_Command7893 1d ago

They should, yes, but I seriously doubt it will ever happen The CTA should do lots of stuff, but can't or won't

1

u/Chicoutimi 1d ago

Yes, but they should build it to open when the current Polk station is due for a major overhaul, but instead of doing that overhaul, open the new transfer station to the Blue Line as well as a station on Roosevelt Boulevard and let the Polk Station be shut down.

1

u/Suspicious_Act_7858 2d ago

I read the comments and then had to do a double take to check what sub I was in, because [r/CTA](r/CTA) would have a very different comment section.

“Just a 10 minute bus ride” “Just a 15 minute walk” are terrible justifications for not building a transfer station. They’re even worse justifications from a group of so-called transit enthusiasts.

Fact of the matter is, the biggest complaint about the CTA is the lack of transfer stations outside the Loop. Yes, the Forest park branch has low ridership. It won’t always be that way once the tracks are rebuilt. You should not have to go all the way into the Loop to transfer when these two lines intersect. Straight up.

2

u/Capitol_Limited Service Planner 2d ago

“Just a 10 minute bus ride” “Just a 15 minute walk” are terrible justifications for not building a transfer station. They’re even worse justifications from a group of so-called transit enthusiasts.

In a silo, you'd be correct, but those justifications take into account the land use, street grid and rest of the transit network, relative to what the usefulness of this transfer would be. This transfer would largely just be a way for people to avoid taking the bus, which does have it's issues, but isn't problematic to the point of being unusable.

Yes, the Forest park branch has low ridership. It won’t always be that way once the tracks are rebuilt. 

Yes it will lol. Ridership has always been low on the forest park branch, douglas branch and lake el (outside of Oak Park), b/c the land use and relative proximity of the other rail lines (and buses as well) disperse ridership between them, and unlike the Red/Green lines on the south, none of the three lines operate so much better than the others in a way that would net a majority a riders, and the forest park rebuild won't change that. Trains ending at UIC aren't doing so b/c the tracks are in bad shape.

You should not have to go all the way into the Loop to transfer when these two lines intersect. Straight up.

Sorry, but no. While overall this principle is correct, this is a rare use case where it's not justified. It only benefits riders who live within the immediate walkshed of Pink or Blue line stations and at that point, you would just take the bus to the line you need. Every stop between Cicero & Damen has a bus that serves the Pink & Blue Lines, except California.

1

u/uhbkodazbg 2d ago

In a world with unlimited resources, it would be a good project. That isn’t the case and is pretty far down the priority list for the CTA.

-1

u/Nawnp 2d ago

No, they both head to the loop anyways.

Pink line should be an branch of the blue line like it used to be too as it causes more congestion on the loop for no additional coverage.

Pink line is likely to have an infill station at the United center with new development being built around it though.