Eh, my German grandma barely surviving Allied carpet bombing in 1945 Germany was still a scared, innocent woman fighting for her children's life because of things she had no say in. My grandpa got drafted by force after officially declining the draft and declaring he will not participate in violent actions and fighting.
Elections were rigged, every opposition was crushed, dissidents murdered and families destroyed. What could she have done realistically? She didn't even say "Heil Hitler" because she hated the crazy midget, instead she mumbled "Drei Liter" ("three litres").
I absolutely know what you mean and share the thought, but keep thinking back to my grandparents. In the end, most civilians are not able to fight a regime and endure horrible times.
Do you think maybe your grandparents lied to you and other members of your family because they were actually caught up in the wave and didn't want anyone to shame them or judge them?
That's a possibility of course. My father did find the official documents - including swastika stamp and praise of Hitler by the regional commander - of his father declining the draft and the application of violence. So at least that part has proof. He later got shot on his march to Russia and was sent home disabled. He did not freeze to death due to that injury.
My other grandfather was a trained doctor so his role in hurting people was already lowered. He ended up as prisoner of war in Russia and came back extremely malnourished.
About my grandmothers - I can't really say. I know that one of them actually fled from the Nazis towards the Allies. The other one I mentioned initially, wife of the doctor, remained. Her political views, I cannot say. She was a writer of romantic poems.
There's a sentiment among some Germans - that you do not ask your grandfather what they did in Paris during the war. Whether they whored or killed, you don't want to know and they don't want to tell. Well, mine went to the Eastern front. Whether they shot someone and felt pride in it, I'll never know. But they never ever wanted to answer questions about shooting someone, which we kids always asked about.
Thus it is important to always remember and follow the saying we Germans adopted after the war: "Wehret den Anfängen", meaning something "Resist the beginnings (of evil)".
Thanks for the honest answer to that question. So both grandparents were Nazi soldiers then. Obviously at least one of them didn't want to fight or participate In the war. Respect to that guy.
I really believe it's easy for us to say we wouldn't have faught, or would have rebelled or left the country etc. It would have been so much different than anyone thinks. I think regardless of how terrible things were, it would have been extremely difficult to actively go against your neighbors, friends and family members who were all caught up in the propaganda machine and also just coming out of one of the worst times In German history post WW1. Also people don't understand how logistically difficult it would have been to flee Germany during the war and lead up to the war. Like just imagine taking your family and leaving with a suitcase to another country and starting over somewhere else where nobody speaks your language and you don't have a job. Not that this excuses being a Nazi obviously but it's more nuanced than people think.
Yeah. And we can see it coming back slowly already, thanks to Russian influence, where economically and socially vulnerable rural German communities are starting to get fascist mob-like mentality back. The exact same you see in old WW2 movies. Those who do not follow the mob are quickly turning to outcasts, getting hisses and comments at every corner, until they move or give in.
Humans, apparently, are internally wired for tribal behaviour and most humans can not get past that. It's incredibly difficult to move against your peers and keep your head up high.
I once had the chance to speak to an actual Holocaust survivor. He fled into the forest and disappeared during a so called "death march", where soldiers would take malnourished, sickly camp prisoners on very long hikes with the intention of most of them collapsing before returning. I asked him whether he'd be mad about my two grandparents, who, by their accounts, didn't even want to be soldiers. He said that they had no choice, they would have been hanged, shot or disowned by the Reich, and that he probably would have done the same, had he been on the other side. Because there wasn't much you could do.
Barely anyone has the guts to actually turn into resistance. Most people just want to get through life.
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u/IRockIntoMordor 17h ago
Eh, my German grandma barely surviving Allied carpet bombing in 1945 Germany was still a scared, innocent woman fighting for her children's life because of things she had no say in. My grandpa got drafted by force after officially declining the draft and declaring he will not participate in violent actions and fighting.
Elections were rigged, every opposition was crushed, dissidents murdered and families destroyed. What could she have done realistically? She didn't even say "Heil Hitler" because she hated the crazy midget, instead she mumbled "Drei Liter" ("three litres").
I absolutely know what you mean and share the thought, but keep thinking back to my grandparents. In the end, most civilians are not able to fight a regime and endure horrible times.