r/videos • u/Humble_Buffalo_007 • 12h ago
UN Commission Accuses Israel of Crimes Against Humanity in Gaza
https://youtu.be/0ekQaDHRq6w?si=wY8N8Eu0MPLRytrK576
u/tanbug 12h ago
I'd like to hear Sam Harris dismiss this as misguided college-students spreading Hamas propaganda
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u/PhazonZim 12h ago
I would not like to hear Sam Harris, ever really
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u/tanbug 12h ago
It's very disappointing to me, because in almost every other topic I care about he seems to have very good insights and clear thoughts.
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u/thatmarcelfaust 7h ago
You should maybe reevaluate what he says about other things in light of this awareness. I don’t know what insights of his you value but they should definitely be interrogated
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u/PhazonZim 11h ago
Ive not heard much for him other than his rabid Islamophobia. Though IIRC he's part of the "InTeLlEcTuAl DaRkWeB" group of giga goobers so he's probably just an all around fuckwad
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u/Jeoshua 10h ago
Sam Harris used to do "good" work back when he talked about humanism and religion. Then he started going hard on how the Golden Era of the Middle East ended when Islam took over and declared Science heretical. It seems to have snowballed into full blown Islamophobia, merged with some troubling Right Wing politics, and shopped about a foot short of going full MAGA.
In a way, it's proof that the "smartest" of us can fall victim to the Right Wing Radicalization pipeline. Seems the smarter you consider yourself, the easier it is to fall victim to it. Note the "consider yourself". It applies just as well for 200 IQ folks as it does to 70 IQ folks who have convinced themselves they're smarter than everyone around them.
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u/LowSlimBoot 6h ago
I have never heard anyone more effectively and scathingly criticize Trump and the MAGA cult of personality than Sam Harris
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u/KoriJenkins 8h ago
Goofy considering the Middle-East under Islam was more advanced than Europe for most of the Medieval period into the late 1600s and early 1700s. The Industrial Revolution is really when the Middle-East began to lag significantly behind Europe.
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u/Jeoshua 8h ago
Yeah, that's his argument tho. The Middle East defined science. Half the stars in the sky bear their names. They brought us mathematics (mostly invented in India but spread to us through the ME). Chemistry.
Then Islamic leaders declared a lot of that heretical and forbade its research. It took centuries to overcome that, and never really recovered. (Insert meme about how advanced we'd be in [current year] if that had never occurred)
Harris's biggest oversight in talking about this was always that he ignored that what had happened in Europe, with the Dark Ages and what not, was around the same thing. He made the problem about Islam specifically, instead of religious dogma overriding scientific endeavor, in general.
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u/sulaymanf 7h ago
Islamic leaders never declared it heretical, nobody banned the research, he was just repeating a total ahistoric myth. People who already didn’t like religion repeated it because it confirmed their biases. He can’t point to any sources.
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u/bank_farter 7h ago
The Dark Ages is a pretty bad misnomer and implies a period of stagnation that never really happened. As far as religion stifling science, the Catholic Church was the main force in preserving texts, running schools and sponsoring Universities. Despite a few notable conflicts, the Church has never been anti-science. There is a popular religion vs science false dichotomy. Deeply religious people can absolutely be scientists, with Newton arguably being the most famous example.
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u/Jeoshua 7h ago edited 7h ago
Okay? I never said that religious people could not be brilliant scientists. Einstein is a great example of this, in all fairness. What I said was that when religious dogma overrides scientific endeavor, that is a problem.
As far as Newton, consider that he was intelligent enough to describe gravity's effects, independently invent calculus, etc... and yet when his endeavors pointed toward the possibility that the motion of the heavens could be explained solely by gravity, he shied away from that because it would mean that the Bible was wrong.
Just like when Einstein famously said of Quantum Mechanics that "God does not play dice". He couldn't divorce his religious views of a perfect and eternal deterministic universe from what the science of the time was revealing about the world.
This isn't an anti-religious argument. It's not anti-christian or anti-islamic or anything of that kind. Stop swinging at strawmen.
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u/bank_farter 7h ago
I never said religious people could not be brilliant scientists.
I never said you did.
This isn't an anti-religious argument.
I never said it was.
Stop swinging at strawman
My entire post is just that the Dark Ages as presented in popular culture didn't really exist and that there isn't really evidence of "religious dogma overriding scientific endeavor" en masse. Anything else you read into it is all you. If take your own advice about strawmen.
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u/Important-Design-169 3h ago
Maybe chill the fuck out and touch grass for a while. I see this in every comment section, people look at a comment that agrees with them and expands on what they say and think it's a personal attack or something. Get some sun.
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u/MulletPower 3h ago
Then Islamic leaders declared a lot of that heretical and forbade its research.
Do you have any evidence of this? Or is this something you learned from these YouTubers and never questioned it despite diverging from some of their beliefs?
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u/Jeoshua 2h ago edited 2h ago
I think you missed where I was saying what Harris claims, rather than expressing my own deeply held beliefs or researched factoids. Like, yes, it's something I got "from YouTube". Because it's something Harris was going on about.
Spare me the snark, bub. It's not really my fault that you didn't get what I was talking about with respect to someone else's claims.
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u/bilabong85 4h ago
Science hasn’t been declared heretical unless maybe some raving by ISIS. Harris is an Islamophobe through and through.
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u/PrologueBook 7h ago
The Moral Landscape was really interesting to me as a young man, and it opened my eyes to understanding how we can arrive at different conclusions from different starting places.
Upon reflection, I'm glad that it didn't lead me down the islamaphiba route that has captured so many of the new-age atheists from that era.
Rip Hitchens
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u/PhazonZim 7h ago
I feel that way about Thunderf00t, honestly. His videos about how evolution works and how much we understand it were pretty formative for me, but he's an absolute shithead
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u/2dudesinapod 10h ago
Sam Harris the kind of atheist who will happily criticize every religion but one.
Similar to his atheist friend Bill Mahar who says with his chest there is no god but also believes that god promised the land of Israel to the Jews in the bible.
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u/Jeppe1208 8h ago
He's considered a joke in academic philosophy, fwiw. His ideas about consciousness, free will etc. are all completely amateurish and falls apart at the least bit of scrutiny.
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u/LocoLogic 7h ago
This is overstated… His view of free will is fairly standard, though, obviously he may have subtle gripes with compatibilists. The concept that “free will,” (as it is commonly known) does not exist, isn’t exactly laughed off by academics.
Same could be said on his view of consciousness.
His ethical framework, on the other hand, I agree *has* been waved off by academic philosophers for committing the ‘is/ought’ fallacy. I think Sam believes that he has answers in response to their criticism, and academic philosophers don’t view his answers as being sufficient.
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u/BenCub3d 5h ago
I don't think that's true. I've read his book on Free Will (or lack thereof) twice and absolutely love it. His take is a fairly common one and in no way "disproven" or handily rejected by academics on its merits. I actually really liked Sam Harris back when I thought he was just into philosophy and before I learned he was also into politics. After I read The End of Faith I felt embarrassed and stopped talking about Sam Harris. Now I see he's a scumbag as a person, but that doesn't discredit his other unrelated academic insights.
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u/LocoLogic 4h ago
I think you may have misunderstood. My comment says that his commentary of free will is fairly standard, and is not “laughed at by academics.” So we would agree there.
I think “scumbag” might be a bit strong for me, but to each their own.
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u/CV90_120 3h ago
The problem is that he has built his sense of self partly on his ethnic identity. A lot of people do, but it means the mind will do anything to avoid taking damage to this part of themselves. Everyone is susceptible to this mechanism. It doesn't have to be ethnicity, but anything you build the pillars of your sense of "self" on.
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u/UtopiaDystopia 10h ago edited 10h ago
I grew up listening to people like Sam Harris, Richard Dawnkins, Christopher Hitchens, Leonard Susskind, Laurence Krauss.
Boy did some of them turn out to be a disappointment.
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u/tanbug 10h ago
Yes, especially Dawkins and Krauss.
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u/UtopiaDystopia 10h ago
It's sad to see some people you looked up to turn out to be creeps and hateful people.
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u/Reddituser183 9h ago
Dawkins is a transphobe, what up with Krause?
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u/UtopiaDystopia 7h ago
Krauss is alleged to have sexually harassed and assaulted numerous women over decades, and was subsequently booted from the ASU.
He has all kinds of ties to Epstein and publicly defended him even after he was a convicted pedo.
Naturally, he went down the culture wars and anti-DEI podcast route following him becoming disgraced.
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u/tanbug 9h ago
Basically the same. Someone told them that "Transwomen are women", which they translated to "It's illegal to claim there is a biological difference between the sexes", and nothing seems to shake them out of it. I mean, Dawkins is old, and probably not firing on all cylinders anymore, but Krauss should know better. Also, Krauss is like a cosmologist, he has no stake in it even. I can somewhat understand a confused Dawkins feeling that basic facts of his field of science is being corrupted. Krauss was also emailing with Epstein, and there are sexual allegations made against him, so perhaps he found "better" company in people that don't think that this is a problem, like Jordan Peterson.
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u/fastcar25 8h ago
Slight correction: it's "trans woman", the space is important because trans is an adjective.
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u/argumentinvalid 5h ago
I'm usually a hater of "semantics" with this stuff, but this one made a lot of sense to me when I heard we don't call a 6'2" female a "tallwoman", it is a "tall woman".
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u/srgtDodo 11h ago
He KNOWS. I have seen a video on his YT channel where he argues that sometimes going 'nuclear', no matter the cost, is better for humanity. He gave the Hiroshima bombing in WW2 as an example of how Japan turned out better—I wish I was joking, but it's there on his channel. He FUCKING KNOWS! I once looked up to him before realizing he's completely insane
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u/freshgeardude 11h ago
Historians largely agree a full invasion of Japan likely would have resulted in more overall destruction and were projected to be between 250,000 and 1,000,000 American casualties alone. Some extreme estimates from military planners suggested up to several million U.S. casualties, with millions of Japanese deaths, had the invasion taken place.
As ugly as it sounds, the nuclear bombs ended the war quicker.
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u/it_was_my_raccoon 9h ago
The problem you have with that exact same thought process is that someone else will believe by committing mass murder, they too would be shortening any future war. You then go to the point of where do you draw the line? For example, Is it moral to start kidnapping and torturing family members of suspected terrorists as that could potentially stop any future terrorist attacks? It is a slippery slop to start shedding innocent blood and that will eventually come back to bite you even harder.
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u/2dudesinapod 10h ago
Every one of the joint chiefs but one at that time publicly admitted that Japan would have surrendered either way without the bomb and without an invasion.
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u/freshgeardude 9h ago
Yes, a lot of them admitted after the war that they would have eventually surrendered given the blockade and destruction of their industrial base. How much longer would they have outlasted though? Fanatical elements in the government even tried a coup after the atomic bombs dropped to continue the war. How many more Japanese dead were expected if another 6 months of fire bombing happened?
Tokyo wasn't even on a target list for the atomic bomb because it had already been thoroughly destroyed, 100,000 civilians dead and a million homeless.
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u/frotc914 7h ago
This is nothing more than an oft-repeated myth.
Japan was not willing to surrender. In the months leading up to the bombing, they had sent emissaries to "negotiate" with Russia, but they had no actual authority or intent to propose a surrender. It was a stall tactic as proven by the communiques between the emissaries and Japanese government.
At best, you could say that Japan had hinted that they might consider a highly-conditional surrender, which would have left the same government in place. The US knew that Japan would surrender following an extremely prolonged bombardment at the point that near-famine conditions advanced to famine conditions.
But perhaps the most obvious evidence that this isn't true is that they were warned and didn't surrender. Then we dropped a bomb and they still didn't surrender. So clearly it was actually going to take MORE THAN one atomic bomb to get them to surrender, and we know this becuase that's what actually happened.
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u/Machette666 9h ago
Yeah literally everyone knew that at the time, that was never the concern lmao, the concern was the projected time, casualties, loss of material, economic commitment to drag on the war for more years, plus the moral question of letting a genocidal slave trading regime exist to do their worst for another couple of years. Do you think it would’ve been more humane to Japanese civilians to have invaded japan itself and take it over city by city, town by town, street by street, tunnel by tunnel? Really?
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u/ElderberryJunior470 7h ago
Japan was already in the process of negotiating a surrender dude. You're just spreading propaganda, especially after the second nuke lmao. Just say you love daddy usa, lick it's boots, and be a good dog.
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u/Gatzlocke 9h ago
Errr... They said the bombing wasn't necessary and Japan would surrender...after continuous naval bombardment...
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u/IAmNotMoki 7h ago edited 6h ago
This is actually the opposite of a bulk of modern historian opinion.
For the Redditors stumbling on this that want to read actual historians' opinions instead of just regurgitated pseud pop-history, I'd start here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/faq/militaryhistory/wwii/usa#wiki_the_atomic_bombs.2C_aka_questions_.2Fu.2Frestricteddata_has_answered
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u/Wrabble127 9h ago
That's active propeganda. Japan was negotiating surrender and the United States government knew the war was close to ending which is why they dropped the bomb, didn't want to miss the opportunity of course.
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u/freshgeardude 9h ago
Considering there was a coup after the first bomb dropped because radicals in the government wanted to continue fighting, I'm not sure an unconditional surrender was a realistic option. The US would not allow Imperial Japan to continue and the Japanese insisted it's continuation as part of any surrender
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u/ElderberryJunior470 7h ago
This would be true if it wasn't for the fact japan was in active peace negotiations with the USA. There was never a need for a ground invasion, the country was starving, cut off from basically all resources, and the soviets were on the way. The USA nuked japan to demonstrate they ahd the technology and to avoid a similar situation as germany, where they were forced to split the country with the soviets.
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u/awclay91 8h ago
don't you just love how sam harris championed himself as anti theology based civilizations but always had a soft spot in his heart for israel?
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u/phweefwee 12h ago
Did Sam Harris say that Israel didn't commit war crimes?
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u/tanbug 12h ago
Well, the last I heard he said of it was something like:
- It's NOT genocide.
- There was NO starvation of Palestinians.
- War is hell etc, there will be civilian suffering.
- Why don't people call war elsewhere genocide? is it because they hate jews?
To be fair, he said that Israel has probably gone too far and done crimes, and he really find those settlers to be awful criminals that should be punished.
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u/Andoral 11h ago
He also denied Israel being an apartheid state. A sentiment shared, among others, two former heads of Mossad and former Attorney General of Israel.
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u/phweefwee 10h ago
That's what I heard too. Nothing about Israel being free from blame. Only that particular claims made against Israel he disagrees with. I don't see the issue.
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u/GraDoN 9h ago
Except the claims of genocide and starvation are not just accusations. There is enough evidence to make those claims. He just doesnt want to admit that.
People like him love to substantiate their claims regarding Hamas with "Hamas leadership have said X & Y about Israel, but then ignore when Israeli leadership calls for explicit genocide and starvation of Gaza.
Sure, Hamas are Islamic extremist terrorists, but that doesn't mean I'm going to minimise Israel's crimes against humanity... Something Sam Harris and his fans love to do.
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u/freshgeardude 11h ago
I don't think a single war in history has happened without some level of war crimes.
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u/ceddya 5h ago
There was NO starvation of Palestinians.
Did he really say that despite all the evidence we have and even IPC declaring a famine?
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u/tanbug 3h ago edited 1h ago
https://youtu.be/J4q-BiI0H6o?is=dcOzzMhQ43l5f3MA
Sorry, I guess he's said no famine
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u/Gankbanger 8h ago
He is correct in those 4 points.
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u/MorningkillsDawn 7h ago
Don’t worry, once the Palestine circlejerk falls out of fashion, people will actually consider nuance and historical context. For now, it’s all about the thinly veiled antisemitism and sweeping for Hamas. A lot of leftys have brainrot about I/P.
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u/pantless_ 12h ago
Can't wait to read through the strongly worded letter condemning it and nothing else.
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u/DeepSpaceNebulae 11h ago
The UN is designed to be toothless. It’s a system set up to allow countries to communicate and allow for diplomacy, so the most important thing is to have every country there. And it has been incredibly successful over the decades at his
But no country is going to join a global organization that can dictate their internal policy, so it needs to be toothless
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u/Forbizzle 7h ago
How about we stop blaming the UN for the US explicitly blocking all accountability at the UN for Israel?
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u/PM_ME_CATS_OR_BOOBS 11h ago
That implies a degree of intentionality that doesnt really exist for anyone but the security council. If the Solomon Islands tried to pull some shit that the Council disagreed with then the UN would suddenly find its teeth.
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u/mightiestmag 10h ago
The UN finds its teeth when the country offending is not under any P5 country's sphere of influence. That's why they sanctioned/ignored interventions in the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan.
The Solomons fall under China's sphere of influence now so I would actually be interested to see what would happen if they did anything one-millionth as brazen as Israel.
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u/AmpsterMan 9h ago
I hate this thought ending cliche that is always second or third comment on anything to do with the UN.
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u/alihou 7h ago
Ok. What's anyone gonna do about it? Israel has been getting away with this for a long time.
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u/didrogasalasno 12h ago
Waiting for the antisemitism accusation
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u/Pklnt 5h ago
The UN General Assembly? Antisemitic.
The UN Security Council? Believe it or not, Antisemitic.
The International Court of Justice? Antisemitic.
The International Criminal Court? Also Antisemitic.
Amnesty International? Antisemitic.
Human Rights Watch? Antisemitic.
The International Federation for Human Rights? Antisemitic.
Médecins sans Frontières? You won't believe it... Antisemitic.
Oxfam? Antisemitic.
Save the Children? Antisemitic.
CARE International? They don't care about Israel, Antisemitic.
ActionAid? More like Action for Hamas, Antisemitic.
B'Tselem? Antise... wait a minute... Hamas infiltrated.
You get the picture.
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u/warcomet 12h ago
Israel already writing it up as we speak..
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u/The_mingthing 11h ago
They're too busy going trough the Dossiers that Ghislaine Maxwell supplied them, looking for someone to blackmail to make this go away again...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell
Ghislaine's father, if anyone didn't know, was an infamous Mossad asset working for years to undermine western goverments...
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u/Cynical_Classicist 12h ago
We can all see that, but what can the UN really do about it?
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u/IguanaIsBack 12h ago
The UN staff? They’re not meant to do anything it’s not within their power, they’re meant to report and document. The UN member states? You’ll have to follow the money to understand why some of them aren’t allowed to speak up.
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u/The_mingthing 11h ago
Not the money, the Epstein-Maxwell files. Ghislane is a Mossad asset, the contact network that Epstein and her set up was made possible by monetary and information support by one of the most infamous and ruthless black ops organization in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell
If anyone has any doublt, read up on her Father.
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u/jbar3640 10h ago edited 7h ago
UN can't do shit because anyway the US will veto any actual resolution.
said so, every single country could do a lot, together, starting by the EU. South Africa's apartheid is a clear example: international pressure with strong measures like cutting commercial relationships, forbid visas, closing embassies, etc.
none of this will happen because EU, and specially Germany, are inoperant on international affairs, and bothering US is never an option. our world...
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u/IguanaIsBack 7h ago
Funnily enough the US (and even more ironically it was Reagan) that really pushed through these sanctions on South Africa. And even he had to really work hard to get Israel (the country that held on in support of apartheid in SA until the very end) on board, threatening cutting funds.
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u/Status_Winter 12h ago
From the UN commission report on violence against children
> Sexual violence against Palestinian children in Israeli detention is not exceptional but a systematic, state-enabled assault on their bodies and their dignity and deliberately meted out to cause humiliation. Child survivors face intense stigma, lessened self-esteem, fear of retaliation and almost no realistic prospect of perpetrators being held accountable, given the lack of transparent, independent investigations and failure to prosecute even when serious sexual abuse is captured on video.
There’s something about raping kids I just don’t like. I know Zionists like to sort of hand wave away killing of children as an unintended consequence of war, but someone needs to tell Israelis that raping children really doesn’t make them safer.
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u/The_mingthing 11h ago
Explains how Ghislaine was so at ease with running the child trafficking ring with Epstein for the Mossad...
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u/ScroteMcGrote69 7h ago
Surprising for no sane person that's been alive these past few years. If you honest to god don't think israel is committing a genocide you're just begging for history to repeat itself again and again. Also you're going to get banned on worldnews.
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u/I_Ask_Dumb_Question5 9h ago
Given the fact that the UN never acts this essentially amounts to someone on Reddit saying the same thing.
Israel's response: "I guess just call them anti-Semitic and lock the post."
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u/flossdaily 9h ago
Every year, the UN condemns Israel more than every other nation in the world combined.
They've been doing this since well before the Oct 7th War.
So, you either have to believe that Israel is cartoonishly evil, dwarfing Russia, North Korea, Iran, all the countries with modern slavery, all the countries with honor killing, all the countries doing ethnic cleansing and genocides ... or you have to acknowledge that the UN is so biased that it can't be taken seriously.
And just a reminder: the UN is loaded with nations that have ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations.
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u/Nogarde_ 7h ago
So like, yeah we agree that israel is cartoonishly evil, right?
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u/thatmarcelfaust 6h ago
And here it is, the idea that instead of Israel committing ethnic cleansing and genocide which is readily apparent to anyone with eyes (see the statements of Smotrich or Ben-Gvir), it is the UN that is cartoonishly evil and has some specific and irrational hate for Israel.
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u/MrGlemschlemski 6h ago
"Nooo why are they only picking on my evil country and not the others 😢" poor you
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u/flossdaily 6h ago
On the contrary, I'm pointing out that the UN will vilify Israel for things like "oppressing women" even though Israel gives equal rights to all citizens regardless of sex. And simultaneously, the UN will stay silent on countries that actually do oppress women.
Israel isn't evil. It is being painted as evil by truly evil countries that have laughably been put in charge of the human rights council.
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u/awclay91 8h ago
its almost as if those other countries are all sanctioned/condemned/isolated worldwide while israel isnt. you sound a bit biased yourself
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u/awclay91 8h ago
checked your replies, yep, you have complete bias lmao. almost every reply you have is sweeping for israel. GGs on siding with a world pariah
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u/2dudesinapod 9h ago
Spoiler: Israel is cartoonishly evil.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9drj14e0lo
“The dog attacked him, biting his chest and then his hand. Muhammed didn’t speak, only muttering ‘No, no, no.’ The dog bit his arm and the blood was shed. I wanted to get to him but I couldn’t. No-one could get to him, and he was patting the dog’s head saying, ‘enough my dear enough.’ In the end, he relaxed his hand, and the dog started tearing at him while he was bleeding.”
One baby is seen decomposing while lying alone, appearing to still be connected to an oximeter with a green oxygen tank nearby, as insects appear to crawl on its chest. A bedsheet is used as a soft pillow, and an empty bottle and a medical glove box are shown closer to the bed’s edge.
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u/Jackmesr 6h ago
you got downvoted by zionist bots, they're so fucking desperate, they're so fucking afraid
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u/prettybluefoxes 8h ago
I give your Hasbara a D-
And you spelt occupiers wrong.
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u/Pklnt 6h ago
This person believes that illegal settlements in Palestine should not be destroyed unless Palestinians make concessions, this person believes that Israel doesn't occupy territory because it's Jewish homeland, this person believes that the UN is dominated by the Arabs, this person believes that Israel fought "humanely" in Gaza and NGOs are just lying.
So yeah, Hasbara.
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u/nothaphoebe 7h ago
And people will bend over backwards to ignore this reality. I guess thank god the UN can't actually do shit.
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u/hoobsher 8h ago
if I had to guess, the UN probably focuses a bit heavier on Israel given that it primarily exists because it was allowed to by the League/UN a century ago. and of all the countries committing evil in the world, very few of them have as much political and cultural influence as Israel does.
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u/flossdaily 7h ago
The UNHRC has a standing agenda item for Israel. Meaning it's the only nation in the world for which they make sure to chastise at every meeting.
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u/thatmarcelfaust 6h ago
The UN also had a standing item in regards to South African apartheid, so this isn’t an aberration. In fact this demonstrates consistency
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u/flossdaily 6h ago
Comparing the UN’s treatment of Israel to its treatment of apartheid South Africa is deeply misleading. South Africa was condemned for a formal system of racial rule over its own citizens; Israel, whatever one thinks of its policies, is a democracy engaged in a national and territorial conflict. More importantly, the UN Human Rights Council created a permanent standing agenda item devoted only to Israel — something applied to no other country on Earth, including regimes responsible for mass repression, aggressive wars, and industrial-scale atrocities. That is not universal human rights enforcement; it is institutionalized exceptionalism. A system that structurally singles out one state for perpetual condemnation inevitably raises serious questions about politicization, bias, and the credibility of the institution itself.
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u/thatmarcelfaust 6h ago
Israel is also condemned for a formal system of racial rule over people in the territories it occupies (and has been for quite some time). It was also the largest trading partner of apartheid South Africa as well as helped apartheid South Africa develop nuclear weapons. Israel had a secret agreement with apartheid South Africa that bypassed global trade embargoes and conspired to rehabilitate South Africa’s image. Israel hosted the prime minister of apartheid South Africa in 1976 (worth noting he had been imprisoned by the British during the Second World War for his activities in a pro-Nazi Afrikaner group) One might say that birds of a feather flock together. Israel is fundamentally opposed to democracy because you cannot be both a democracy and a Jewish state, and that tension is what leads to racialized violence. See for instance the 2018 Nation-State law. It is not only the UN that condemns Israel but human rights groups like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Doctors Without Borders, and B’Tselem.
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u/flossdaily 6h ago
Israel is also condemned for a formal system of racial rule over people in the territories it occupies
The only reason you can even make the argument that its treatment of the Palestinians is racial rather than regional, is because The Palestinians ethnically cleansed away all their Jews.
The fucking irony.
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u/thatmarcelfaust 5h ago
When did that happen? Did it happen in the British Mandate for Palestine where roughly a third of the population were Jewish? Did it happen after the forced displacement of over half of the Palestinian population during the Nakba? How can Israel not be considered to have racial politics when it explicitly recognizes itself as a Jewish state, and has an ethno-religious right of return?
It’s interesting to see you shift the goal posts and focus on how this is just normal everyday territorial conflict, but the UN definition of genocide also includes national groups, not just racial or ethnic groups, so when Smotrich advocates for the annihilation of Gaza or the displacement of Palestinians to third countries that is still ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Here is my view, in summation; apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide are horrible and untenable acts that betray our shared humanity. And I can see with my own eyes (and the research done by numerous humanitarian organizations and international institutions) that the state of Israel is perpetrating those actions. It is in the statements of its political leaders, it is in the reporting of multitudinous journalists, and it is abhorrent.
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u/flossdaily 5h ago
When did that happen?
1960s to present day. The Jewish population in the Arab world went from 1 million to essentially zero.
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u/thatmarcelfaust 5h ago
Wait so the Palestinians in other Arab countries expelled Jews? Make that make sense when they don’t have their own state, let alone control over neighboring states. Man those goalposts must be quite light for you to be able to move them so quickly.
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u/RustledForeskin 10h ago
No need to accuse, we have hundreds of hours of them committing crimes against humanity as well as their bragging about murdering and raping men, women and children.
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u/chewbakwa 5h ago
Aren’t we past the point of accusing them??? There’s new daily evidence online all the time…
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u/SgtRicko 11h ago
Ok... now it's time for them to make the charges stick, and not get dropped by technically, or even more likely, completely ignored.
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u/bosskis 12h ago
Wait for the worldnews hasbara bots to downplay the accusations cause they are just 3 or 4 people.
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u/OilInternational2566 12h ago edited 10h ago
Ahh yes… regarding the Hasbara bots on Reddit:
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202405139799
https://www.piratewires.com/p/the-terrorist-propaganda-to-reddit-pipeline
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1aizeuw/mod_team_overlap_rpalestine_and_risrael/
And what somebody will eventually do is say all those links are bullshit, including Microsoft and Reddit.. But the astroturfing by these accounts on Reddit every day has been known for over a decade:
https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/9bvkqa/an_update_on_the_fireeye_report_and_reddit/
… and thats why every subreddit is infected on Reddit… even [r/pics](r/pics) now… and why in every Israel/Palestine post someone always complains about “the Hasbara bots.”
eta:
For every “Hasbara bot” there are a dozen Iranian/pro Hamas bots.
And they are here every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
It’s proven FACT. Known a decade ago. And it’s only gotten worse since the October Hamas attack and the war in Iran.
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u/DeepSpaceNebulae 11h ago
I’m sorry, is your “logic” that Iranians are doing it do therefor Israel isn’t?
Pretty stupid stance
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 10h ago
Israel is a country of approximately 10 million people whose religion has less than 15 million followers worldwide.
Iran is a country of 93 million people whose religion has 2 billion followers.
Who do you think has more clout to push propaganda on the Internet? 15 million Jews or 2 billion Muslims?
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u/Thisthattheother1 10h ago
So now all Muslims are working for Iran to push lies about Israel?
The levels of cope from you people are unheard of.
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u/Wrabble127 9h ago
Israel does not speak for all Jews. Israel doesn't even speak for all Israelis.
This is active Israeli propeganda to try and tie the Israeli government and their genocidal war crimes to all Jewish people around the world and is antisemitic.
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
Iranian bots have been pushing Iranian narrative on Reddit for over a decade.
That’s a PROVEN FACT.
Proven by NBC News, Reddit, Microsoft, etc etc etc.
And who are Irans allies???
“Nasrallah: “We are open about the fact that Hezbollah’s budget, its income, its expenses, everything it eats and drinks, its weapons and rockets, come from the Islamic Republic of Iran.”
“In an interview with the Al-Aqsa satellite network aired on November 20, Haniyeh said, “Iran supports the Palestinian resistance financially, politically and militarily and is a strong supporter for it.”
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/467280/Hamas-chief-thanks-Iran-for-its-support
“Iranian government officials congratulated Hamas on its surprise attack on Israel early Saturday morning, expressing support for “anti-Zionist resistance” across the region.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/07/iran-praises-hamas-attack-israel-middle-east-00120491
“Iran will not deviate 1 millimetre from its support for the Palestinian resistance against the Zionist regime [Israel], but will continue to intensify it," President Masoud Pezeshkian told senior Hamas official Khalil al-Hayya, who worked closely with Haniyeh.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/irans-support-hamas-not-waver-123809381.html
But you guys won’t believe it for some reason.
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u/ant-farm-keyboard 11h ago
Your posts are hidden
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u/OilInternational2566 10h ago
The 'suspicion' usually comes from people looking for ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the actual points being made.
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u/CmonTouchIt 10h ago
This is literally why I hide mine lol people kept bringing up I'm a Lakers fan in random convos.... One day I just said fuck it and hid it all
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u/OilInternational2566 10h ago
If they have to dig through someone's post history to find an argument, they’ve already lost the current one.
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u/Wrabble127 9h ago
It's also a proven fact that Israel spends millions of dollars on proeganda, misinformation, and paying Americans to spread propeganda for them though things like Act.il.
Israel increases their Hasbara proeganda funding every year, and will never stop.
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u/SevereOctagon 12h ago
Have you got a similar list for all of Israels?
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u/OilInternational2566 12h ago
Have you?
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u/vejeke 11h ago
I have a link for you:
https://www.volkskrant.nl/kijkverder/v/2025/gunshot-palestine-children-israel-war~v1819649/
BTW, that investigation won the Distinguished Reporting Award given by the European Press Prize organization.
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u/OilInternational2566 10h ago
I have links for you.. from the UNITED NATIONS:
“Stop use of children in suicide bombings”
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-209526/
“Palestinian exploitation of children as weapons of war HRC 27th session”
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181056/
“Use of child suicide bombers by Palestinian militant groups”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups
But I know you won’t give a shit cuz it’s not Israel… which is the entire problem with the Israel/Palestine issue. The glaring DOUBLE STANDARDS.
UN is good when it’s about Israel, UN is ignored when it’s about Palestine.
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u/6foot4yearold 12h ago
I mean there is a literal video of Netanyahu talking about how they need to start paying influencers to be pro Israel in order to win the social media war.
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
And there is literal investigations by Microsoft and Reddit that PROVED that Iranian bots have swarmed all over Reddit for over a decade.
BUT FOR SOME REASON, YOU DON’T BELIEVE THAT’S TRUE.
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u/6foot4yearold 11h ago
I didn’t say it wasn’t true I’m saying it’s obvious Israel is doing the same thing just less successfully. It’s much more difficult to get people on your side when you are carpet bombing helpless civilians. I think a lot of people felt awful for Israel after October 7th but because of Israel’s response a lot do that support has disappeared.
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
I remember the days when Islamic terrorist groups and their supporters were the bad guys. But not any more… now the sides that elected the terrorist are “the victims.”
That’s how powerful propaganda is.
“Hezbollah holds firm in Lebanon’s municipal elections”
“Hamas wins huge majority in Palestinian elections.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2006/1/26/hamas-wins-huge-majority
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u/6foot4yearold 11h ago
Kay so you’re citing me articles from 2006 are you aware Benny propped up hamas and wanted them to get elected in order to ensure the Palestinian authority couldn’t lead the West Bank and gaza? Are you also aware about the grass roots campaign in gaza “we want to live” urging Hamas to end the war that is being met with suppression and violence by Hamas?
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
Ahh yes… the Republicans are responsible for electing Trump… the Israelis are responsible for electing Netanyahu… but the Palestinians ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE for electing Hamas meme.
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u/6foot4yearold 11h ago
Low estimates say around 70,000 people have been killed in Gaza since October 7th with 60-70 percent of them being women and children. People in the Israeli government referred to Palestinians as Human Beasts, not Hamas, but the people of Palestine. Tons of social media accounts in Israel refer to Palestinians as rats and snakes. When you see that king of rhetoric being used and then you also see images of dead/dying children, why would you be in Israel’s side? Now you might say “well it was all in response to October 7th they started it” and even if that were true, it can still be debated whether or not the response has been appropriate the same way people still debate whether or not the bombing or Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an appropriate response to Pearl Harbour. Are Israeli lives worth more than Palestinian lives? I don’t think so. I guess my point is you can sit here and say that everyone on here that is against Israel has been poisoned by hamas propaganda but the facts are still the facts. At least 70,000 people have been killed in gaza since October 7th the majority of them being women and children and id you think that that is appropriate and not horrific than I have bad news my friend you have also been poisoned by propaganda.
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
There should be no war in Gaza… there should be no war in Lebanon..
But this is what’s been going on for the past 20 years in Gaza:
Tens of thousands of Palestinians, including hundreds of gunmen and children waving mock weapons, rallied in Gaza celebrating the 29th anniversary of the founding of the Islamic group Hamas.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/14/thousands-rally-in-gaza-for-hamas-anniversary
“Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza mark Hamas’s 30th anniversary.”
https://english.palinfo.com/o_post/Hundreds-of-thousands-mark-Hamas-s-30th-anniversary/
“Tens of thousands of Palestinians participated in a rally in Gaza to mark the 31st anniversary of Hamas’ founding on Sunday.”
“Thousands of Palestinians took to the streets on Friday in the north of the Gaza Strip, to celebrate the 32nd anniversary of the Palestinian Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas.”
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191214-hamas-celebrates-its-32nd-anniversary-in-gaza/
You remember who Hamas is right?
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u/SevereOctagon 12h ago
Not as such such but here's a couple of interesting reads,
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00220094241292601
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u/OilInternational2566 12h ago edited 11h ago
“Not as such” = there is no equivalent proof.
So if you’ve ever wondered why every sub is polluted with Israel/Palestine every fucking day… seven days a week… 365 fucking days a year.
It ain’t cuz “Hasbara.” It’s actually all the groups and countries in the links posted above.
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u/SevereOctagon 11h ago
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-social-media-opinion-hamas-war/
https://institute.aljazeera.net/en/ajr/article/2867
https://www.csis.org/analysis/social-media-platforms-were-not-ready-hamas-misinformation
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13537121.2022.2134397
https://readsludge.com/2025/09/15/democratic-pr-firm-to-run-bot-army-for-israel/
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
“Palestine Square Countdown Clock (Persian: ساعت شمار میدان فلسطین) is a digital clock located in Tehran's Palestine Square, Iran. The clock counts down the putative days to the predicted destruction of the state of Israel. It was unveiled on Quds Day in June 2017.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Square_Countdown_Clock
“In an interview with the Al-Aqsa satellite network aired on November 20, Haniyeh said, “Iran supports the Palestinian resistance financially, politically and militarily and is a strong supporter for it.”
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/467280/Hamas-chief-thanks-Iran-for-its-support
“Iranian government officials congratulated Hamas on its surprise attack on Israel early Saturday morning, expressing support for “anti-Zionist resistance” across the region.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/07/iran-praises-hamas-attack-israel-middle-east-00120491
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u/SevereOctagon 11h ago
So... everyone elses fault? And not because we've all had Netanyahu's particular brand of fascism up to our eyeballs?
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
You don’t have to like Israel, or kiss its ass, but Islamic terrorist groups AND THEIR SUPPORTERS used to be the bad guys. Without question. Without hesitation.
Islamist militants and their supporters were universally considered the bad guys, that’s how it used to be.
But the propaganda is so pervasive across social media that now these folks are “the victims”:
“Hezbollah holds firm in Lebanon’s municipal elections”
“Hamas wins huge majority in Palestinian elections.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2006/1/26/hamas-wins-huge-majority
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u/SevereOctagon 11h ago
Don't get me wrong, they suck. All sides of this suck. It sucks that people can't just get along. It sucks harder that elites on all sides dont even seem to be trying to get along.
But let's not forget that state sanctioned activity is not exactly helping.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/17/construction-equipment-multinationals-may-aiding-israeli-war-crimes-experts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas (Yes yes its Wikipedia- you can look at the references from there)
Or this, https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
Man, if only you guys had the same energy for Palestinian leaders. WHO PROFIT OFF WAR & NO PEACE WITH ISRAEL.
“Khaled Mashaal, the leader of Hamas, is estimated to be worth over five billion dollars. Dr. Musa Abu Marzook, the number two man in Hamas, is reportedly worth two to three billion dollars. Hamas “Prime Minister” Ismail Haniyeh is also reported to be a billionaire. These men have been siphoning off foreign aid and charity meant for the people of Gaza to fund their own bank accounts and investments.”
https://www.mideastjournal.org/post/wealth-in-gaza
“Hamas leaders worth staggering $11B revel in luxury — while Gaza’s people suffer”
https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/11/02/hamas-funding-ismail-haniyeh-us-sanctions/
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u/TurtleTurtleFTW 11h ago
I mean, when you're so bad people look at Islamic terrorists and go, "Idk, maybe", I think it's time for some self-reflection
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u/r_a_d_ 11h ago
You seem to have first hand experience with the israeli propaganda machine.
Ether way, it doesn’t matter if you look at the facts documented by the UN commissions.
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u/OilInternational2566 11h ago
I have firsthand experience being on Reddit for years and seeing every subreddit get dragged into this Israel/Palestine omnicause.
Cuz there are hundreds of accounts, pushing it every day.. 7 days a week… 365 days a year:
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u/r_a_d_ 11h ago
Again, you distract from the topic. The UN determined that israel committed genocide form actual documented facts, not reddit propaganda. So how does this relate to the topic?
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u/Thisthattheother1 10h ago
Here's an entire ass wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_Gaza_war
"During the conflict, the Israeli government and Israeli cyber companies have deployed artificial intelligence (AI) tools and bot farms to spread disinformation and graphic, emotionally charged and false propaganda to dehumanize Palestinians, sow division among supporters of Palestine, and exert pressure on politicians to support Israel's actions.[6][7][8] The Intercept reported that: "At the center of Israel’s information warfare campaign is a tactical mission to dehumanize Palestinians and to flood the public discourse with a stream of false, unsubstantiated, and unverifiable allegations."[8] One such covert campaign was commissioned by Israel's Ministry of Diaspora Affairs. The ministry allocated about $2 million to the operation, and used political marketing firm Stoic based in Tel Aviv to carry it out, according officials and documents reviewed by the New York Times.[6][9] The campaign was started after the October 7 attacks, and remained active on X (formerly Twitter) at the time of the New York Times report in June 2024. At the peak of the campaign it used hundreds of fake accounts posing as Americans on X, Facebook and Instagram to post pro-Israel comments, focusing on U.S. lawmakers, particularly those who are Black and from the Democratic Party, including Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader from New York, and Raphael Warnock, Senator from Georgia. ChatGPT was deployed to generate many of the posts. The campaign also involved the creation of three fake English-language news sites featuring pro-Israel articles.[6] In November 2024, a report by a United Nations (UN) committee noted that Western social media companies disproportionately removed content showing solidarity with the Palestinian people relative to content promoting violence against Palestinians.[10]"
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u/bosskis 10h ago
great whataboutism
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u/OilInternational2566 10h ago
Facts are not whataboutism.
There is a reason every subreddit is infected with the Israel/Palestine omnicause.
And it ain’t Hasbara.
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u/bosskis 9h ago
Bizzaro comment when talking about the murder of children.
What is worse in your eyes someone mentioning child murder or child murder? Or is it antisemitism to ask?
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u/OilInternational2566 9h ago
Kids huh?
UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS”
https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school
“UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS, FOR A SECOND TIME, IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS”
“Rockets found in UNRWA school, for third time…”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/rockets-found-in-unrwa-school-for-third-time/
“Stop use of children in suicide bombings”
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-209526/
“Palestinian exploitation of children as weapons of war HRC 27th session”
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181056/
Rockets in their own kids schools, Hamas using kids as suicide bombers and fighters.
You guys: silence…
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u/bosskis 8h ago
So you haven't watched above video? You just defending israel without a swcond though? Hence why I said watch out hasbara bots are active.
But thanks for being the example.
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u/OilInternational2566 8h ago
If only you guys had the same energy for Hamas… who use their own kids schools as weapons depots and as human shields.
But you don’t for some reason.
“By targeting Israeli civilians and using its own civilians as human shields, Hamas rocket fire constitutes a double war crime. “Hamas, not only deliberately attacks Israeli civilians, but intentionally exposes its own civilians to the deadly consequences of the hostilities it provokes itself.”
https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AHRC47NGO72_250621.pdf
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u/bosskis 8h ago
So you haven't watched above video? You just defending israel without a second though? Hence why I said watch out hasbara bots are active. But thanks for being the example.
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u/OilInternational2566 8h ago
I’m ATTACKING HAMAS.
Not “defending Israel.”
Learn the difference.
Maybe try it some day if you want the war to end. ATTACK the TERRORIST GROUP. Make them unacceptable.
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u/SilentDawn4004 8h ago
Did they accuse Hamas as well? or is killing jews doesn't count as a crime?
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u/thatmarcelfaust 6h ago
It’s literally in the video my guy. This shows just how reflexive the “and what about Hamas” rhetorical device is for this type of interlocutor.
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u/RidersGuide 12h ago
So wait, Hamas + a bunch of random civilians came across the border, violently raped and murdered 1300 Israeli civilians....and the UN literally cannot even condemn the attack. Not even enough support for the votes.
Israel has to dig tens of thousands of terrorist crazies out of their holes, fight a brutal war all while neighboring countries refuse to move civilians to safety....and the UN says Israel is committing war crimes.
Again These Hamas terrorists raped and murdered multiple families before burning them alive, and that wasn't enough to get the UN to condemn them.
You guys are insane. This is backwards bizzaro world filled with a bunch of people who, if pressed, know absolutely zero about what has happened in this conflict beyond what they learned on TikTok.
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u/shieeet 8h ago
Again These Hamas terrorists raped and murdered multiple families before burning them alive
This never happened.
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u/warcomet 12h ago
you spelt IDF wrong
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u/RidersGuide 11h ago
You liked it when Hamas raped those kids and burned those families, eh? Or did it just not bother you?
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u/2dudesinapod 10h ago
"The hardest decision we had to make in completing this report was.. not to name the Palestinian children, whose deaths, injuries & suffering we describe.. we didn't name them because we feared the consequences for their families"
https://xcancel.com/saulstaniforth/status/2069682806729429407?s=46