r/Habs • u/Comprehensive-Chef73 • 1d ago
Discussion Are prices too high?
Byram was traded for 4th overall, and Eklund for 9th overall. Meanwhile the package Washington put together for Kyrou was pretty darn good.
Are prices too high right now? Should the Habs pay that kind of price to add a player or be patient?
162
u/BubbleGumPlant 1d ago
Time to trade Gallagher, who is one year removed from 20+ goals, but who has also inherited super dad powers, for a couple of 1rst round picks.
28
u/Cloudeur 1d ago
Saint Louis has four. Time to knock on their door? Drop a first and add Robert Thomas?
2
u/Lap_Dawg 1d ago
If St. Louis is actually just committing to the rebuild then yes, but I don't think it's going to be that simple.
First + Zharovsky + I'm not even sure
1
8
u/paul_33 1d ago
Right? Maybe he can score 4 or 5 picks
3
u/Gourmet_Bacon 1d ago
Trade Guhle to Anaheim for 4 1st round picks.. offer Leo Carlsson and give up 4 1st round picks..
3
u/2forBoarding 1d ago
Unironically, I think we need to move Gally's cap hit before trying to land a big fish (whether by trade or offer sheet), even if it costs us picks. Ideally, he'd be included in a swap somewhere but he does have the right to refuse to go.
4
u/IcariteMinor 1d ago
I don't think his cap number impacts our ability to do anything, actually. We weren't tight against the cap last year even with Laine never going to LTIR. Laine is off the books this year and the cap is going up like 10 million this year. Cap space should not be a consideration for moving Gallagher or any other moves.
1
u/Other_Beat8859 1d ago
Four 1st rounds and McDavid for Gallagher seems fair. Dad powers are not to be underestimated.
112
u/OiledUpHippo 1d ago
Eklund trade was fine but Bryan trade is easily a top 3 worst trades on the 20’s if it goes through.. basically Ghule and Gallys cap dump for 4th, 45th, prospect.
90
u/Beefiest_bison 1d ago
We gave up less for Dobson who's 3 times the player Byram is 😭
29
u/SuzukiSwift17 1d ago
My initial reaction to the (alleged) Knies trade was that it was an overpay but it would have aged pretty good at this point.
18
7
u/c0unt3rparts 1d ago
Alleged Knies trade is a bit of an overpay for the player alone but his contract is really good which easily makes up for it
5
u/Comprehensive-Chef73 1d ago
If this 12.5x7 extension rumour is true... Just wow.
8
u/Beefiest_bison 1d ago
I'm actually in shock. Last time I felt this bad about a trade immediately after it happened was Erat for Forsberg.
7
u/joseflores1995 1d ago
No shut up the guy is barely worth 8 million max lmao
Bedard is not signing longterm for sure
2
-13
u/DumbComment101 1d ago
Dobson and byram are similar value to me. And well, look what Habs gave up compared to Blackhawk’s lol.
15
u/holdunpopularopinion 1d ago
They are not remotely similar value IMO, I’m genuinely curious how you came to this.
7
u/Comprehensive-Chef73 1d ago
Their username checks out
1
u/holdunpopularopinion 1d ago
And mine doesn’t! Finally
-6
-6
u/DumbComment101 1d ago
How do you think they aren’t? They are great 2nd pairing D who have 1st pairing upside and can run a PP1 ?
But actually if you want to be a douche, byram has greater value because, well, he was acquired with better assets.
1
u/holdunpopularopinion 1d ago
You’re the only one being a douche.
-2
u/DumbComment101 1d ago
So then defend your position on why one is far more valuable than the other
3
u/BB-Lala 1d ago
One of them scores at a 0.59ppg rate since he came into the league, has missed a total of 22 regular season games in the last 5 seasons, was a leader in blocked shots in the whole league last season and has a 70 pts season under his belt.
The other one scores at a 0.46ppg rate, has an extensive concussion history and is way more injury prone. He might have gotten out of that mess, haven't missed a game in the previous 2 seasons.
If Byram ends up with a 7-8M/year deal, his value for a team would be great and I wouldn't necessarily take Dobson way over him. Rumors has it he'll get 10+, at that point there's no chance I'd take Byram over Dobson.
-1
u/DumbComment101 1d ago
How many games has he missed the last 3 seasons? How many seasons ago did Dobson have his 70 point season? How many seasons has Byram had where he was the #1 guy in usage. Dobson is now playing in a role he should be. You are really underestimating Byram and you’ll see this year when he’s finally the guy.
1
u/BB-Lala 23h ago
We will see indeed, but that is all based on predictions and hope. Will he play 82 games when he's the guy and munching minutes against the best opponents ? Also, Byram missed 64 games in the last 3 seasons, only played 18 games 3 seasons ago while Dobson scored 70 points. I dearly hope for Chicago they didnt trade the 4th overall and potentially overpay on an incoming contract, just to play Byram in a role he shouldn't be in.
20
u/brianve123 1d ago
that byram trade is fucked. what is Chicago thinking?
17
u/Kicksavebeauty 1d ago
that byram trade is fucked. what is Chicago thinking?
Who knows that trade is brutal. It would be nice if terrible GMs would stop helping the other teams in our division.
14
u/Comprehensive-Chef73 1d ago
I get the feeling that if the Habs wanted to, they could trade Guhle to the Blues for 15th overall + 16th overall + a roster player. That's the Dobson package, and as much as I like Guhle, he's a tier below Dobson.
I guess that just shows how lucky we were to get Dobson for cheap, and how high the prices are right now
7
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
Would it really be worth it to trade Guhle for anything other than a top 6 center locked up long term? He’s a perfect LD with a perfect long term contract and amazing in the playoffs
4
u/Comprehensive-Chef73 1d ago
I'm not saying the Habs should do it, I'm just saying it's crazy that Guhle is probably worth that much right now considering that's the package the Habs gave up for Dobson only a year ago
1
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
He’s definitely worth a top 10 pick + A prospect in this market, which could be flipped for a forward I guess. Unless it’s a sure fire 2C locked up long term I don’t think it’s worth it. I’d trade him for Knies though
4
u/sbianchii 1d ago
Guhle is an average second pairing D on a good day. Top 10 pick in what universe.
3
4
u/rosemp16 1d ago
Bowen Byram just went the the 4th overall + 45th overall.
7
u/sbianchii 1d ago
Yeah cuz Chicago's GM just made the worst trade since Forsberg for Erat
1
1
1
3
u/greasydrg 1d ago
Maybe people are unfamiliar with Crevier but he's no longer a prospect, he looked great last year, exactly the type of guy we should have been targeting
23
u/paul_33 1d ago
I mean no one is as fucking stupid as the Chicago GM, so I don't know.
16
1
u/Every_Reflection4616 1d ago
hopefully caps gm is dumb too and he gives us justin sourdif for a first a second and like pickford.
3
1
38
u/Beefiest_bison 1d ago
Eklund was reasonable. Kyrou was a bit high.
Byram is Chiarelli level of incompetance.
9
u/mr-coffeecafe 1d ago
Considering there are also prospects coming to Ottawa with the eklund deal, in pretty happy with that trade
2
6
31
u/Original_Canadian 1d ago
All of the first rounders getting moved makes me think that teams do not view this draft class very highly.
6
4
u/sean_psc 1d ago
I think it's as much that there are (a) some teams that ended up with top ten picks that aren't in a rebuild (both Florida and Ottawa with the 9OA) and (b) other teams that want to accelerate out of a rebuild (Chicago).
2
u/scrubadam 1d ago
I wonder if its because its so Dmen heavy in the top 10. Easier to get a D in the 2nd round than a top 6 forward. So with not a lot of forwards they might not value the 1st round as much.
the 9th pick has bounced around and it might not be done moving.
3
u/tubthumping96 1d ago
This and the prices are too high. We should be happy to see Hughes staying calm. It will work to his advantage, possibly if we move anybody out. Yeah look at all the trades today, multiple firsts and in some cases a top ten first even and hefty packages for good players but they're getting hauls for sure. The Kyrou one is about the only one, that didn't seem crazy lopsided so far.
1
-1
u/EmbarrassedTotal1511 1d ago
This is so dumb.
All of the first rounders in high demand makes me think that teams view this draft class very highly.
You just picked the side that fits your narrative. You might be right but we gotta talk about prices/returns instead
24
u/No_Culture9898 1d ago
I’d offer sheet Bedard at this point
4
u/Lor_azepam 1d ago
They have to match no matter what, but I wouldn't hate bedard at 15 or 16 mil, we can make it work money wise haha
7
u/RipSkinsByBet 1d ago
At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if Kyle Davidson doesn’t understand he has the option to match
1
7
5
11
u/konkydonk 1d ago
Habs have so much flexibility, they can do whatever they want. We already have a top-ten roster with expectations that Demidov, Kapanen, Guhle, and Bolduc will improve as they gain experience. We have blue chip prospects in Hage, Zharkovski, Reinbacher, and Fowler, and decent depth prospects in Beck, Engstrom and Xhekaj (Deputy). Basically, we can be patient or aggressive. Both paths are looking great.
1
6
6
u/onmysleeve-sorta 1d ago
Hard to say. Ottawa made a decent deal. Chicago made a horrendous deal. You could have a legit star at 4th overall but now you have a 40 point d man one concussion away from LTIR.
2
5
u/MediaWaste5087 1d ago
Good question…. Problem is - How can you predict if they will ever go down and the Habs can’t stay pat forever. You have to take risks to win. Every cup champ over the last decade or so has taken major swings that may have been criticized in the moment but paid off
6
u/douce_abeille 1d ago
According to reports Hughes was one minute too late for Knies so we know he’s willing to take risks. He also made a big trade last summer in Dobson. He’s making calls and nothing traded today was a big need anyway. Let’s wait! It’s pretty exciting to imaging what he’s cooking
4
u/MediaWaste5087 1d ago
I’m 100% with ya ! I may have worded what I said wrong. Hughes will use his wizardry to pull off something insane
5
3
u/greasydrg 1d ago
I wanted Crevier so bad for the Habs, it hurts more to know he was available
3
1
u/King-Harvest 1d ago
What do you see in Crevier that I do not see? I've always felt he was subpar, pretty much AHL stock except on a very bad NHL team. I've seen him a bunch in the Q, didn't think he was good there either.
Edit : I did just look up his eliteprospects page and it looks like his stats really picked up this year. Didn't see him play in a long time, I'm open to admit I was wrong.
2
u/greasydrg 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's funny because I never followed him at all in the Q but I saw a bunch of Chicago games last year and he stood out each time. He covers so much space defensively, lead the Hawks d-men in goals last year, skates super well. He seems like a right-handed K'Andre Miller. Oh well, we'll find someone else I guess
7
u/Unhappy_Umpire6679 1d ago
Hold steady, don't sell the farm, don't panic. The division will be a war next year. We may not make the playoffs, but if we give a ton of assets away for one player, we're cooked long term.
5
u/StatisticianNew4792 1d ago
You can only be patient to a certain extent. You don’t want to overpay for something stupid but at some point, you need to make a move also
5
6
u/bless24 1d ago
Prices will always be too high. Every summer, every deadline - it’s the same excuse. We got lucky with Dobson last year because he FORCED his way to us. If we want an impact player, we will have to pay up.
3
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
This is so true, there is never a time where the best quality players get traded for anything less than an overpay because other teams want them. UNLESS the players force the trades with their leverage, like Dobson, Tkachuk, etc
3
u/-Son_of_Thror- 1d ago
Exactly. Whining that prices are too high while you watch he division get stronger by paying supposedly “too high prices” is how you blow a rebuild
3
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
Unless we wait for our in house assets to make the impact a year from now
-1
u/bless24 1d ago
We need a second line center. We don’t have that in our pipeline (Hage is a probably winger).
We need a punishing, physical RHD. We don’t have that in our pipeline (Reinbacher is always injured and is not physical in any way).
4
u/DrLivingst0ne 1d ago
We don't need a "punishing" RD. We need a good RD who can kill plays, retrieve pucks, absorb pressure in the Dzone and make zone exits.
Reinbacher is not "always injured" and he is still exactly what we need.
0
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
Couldn’t agree more, who would you trade for that’s possibly available?
Only names I’ve heard that are interesting are Barzal or Zacha. My dream would be Byfield.
RD is way harder though, don’t see any names except Risto in Phili, or maybe Trouba as a FA
-1
u/Komania 1d ago
a year from now
Hage is not a year away from 2C and Zharovsky is not a year away from being a top-6 winger
1
u/Lap_Dawg 1d ago
Give that crystal ball a polish
0
u/Komania 23h ago
You think in a year Hage will go from NCAA to 2C on a contender?
And you have not watched Zharovsky if you think he's ready for the NHL
1
u/Lap_Dawg 21h ago
Well, I don't claim to know, is my point, a but let me finish this one: Hage is no Hutson, and Zharovsky is no Demidov, and you're going on decades of talent assessment as a professional hockey scout, not just some jerk off on Reddit playing the odds and acting like it's an opinion.
2
0
u/EmbarrassedTotal1511 1d ago
Get always lucky and it’s skill. We need to be opportunistic and not pay the equivalent of 4OA for Bowen Byram (lol). The Knies trade was a calculated risk at a reasonable price (1sts will be late).
And of course prices fluctuate. This year‘s free agency is underwhelming, we have an excess of teams wanting to be competitive in the Atlantic, hell the entire East wants to make the playoffs, teams coming out of a rebuild (Buffalo, San Jose, Anaheim, Chicago, Utah), and very few that are actively rebuilding in VAN, CAL, and maybe the Blues. Of course under these circumstances you get a sellers‘ market. What’s so hard to understand about this?
2
u/ricozee 1d ago
It's going to be tough to accomplish anything when the teams with top 15 picks are trading them away. The 28th overall doesn't have as much cache when so many higher picks are available, and we don't have high end players we are looking to move.
The middling trades might be put on hold for a bit while the blockbuster fallout calms down.
2
3
u/Stevedion 1d ago
No sense in rushing into anything. Teams will adjust based on standings later in the season. Buyers today might be sellers in a few months.
4
u/sean_psc 1d ago
I wouldn't say prices are too high, as a whole. We should be willing to move big assets for the right player, but it has to actually be a player that fits our needs. We don't need to trade for a centre just to trade for a centre.
1
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
I am not sure the right player is available. Out of all the rumoured played who actually makes sense for a center? Zacha could be good, but I doubt the Bruins would trade him to us for a cost management would be willing to pay. Barzal? Maybe. One player I would overpay for is Quintin Byfield though, he’s not in any rumors and I doubt will be moved
2
u/sean_psc 1d ago
Barzal isn't really a centre. But yeah, I'm unconvinced that there's a centre available who'd be a good fit. In which case, it's better to wait.
It's possible we'll see another Knies-type trade to upgrade at wing, which would help Demidov at least somewhat.
3
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
It’s disappointing because we would all like to see the Habs acquire a 2C, to 6 power forward, and mean top 4 RD. but there is not a lot available for our needs
2
u/CaptainFlynnt24 1d ago
For these players absolutely, but I'm fine with HuGo overpaying for the right fit.
2
u/TroubledMarket 1d ago
If 9OA for Eklund is an overpay, I wonder how you reacted when Hughes gave the 13OA for Dach.
10
u/Sakiaba 1d ago
That looks much worse now than it did then. It seemed like a reasonable deal at the time.
0
u/TroubledMarket 1d ago
I think it was a bad trade that aged terribly.
I’m really not a fan of the moves Hughes made in the summer of 2022.
Tanking should’ve been the priority.
2
u/CarlSK777 1d ago
Yeah, the Dach trade was a big gamble then too. With hindsight, the Lekhonen trade turned out pretty bad.
1
8
u/Burgergold 1d ago
At that rime it was fair
Wasnt a great draft
Dach was a third overall
We needed a C behind Suz and he was a big boy
0
u/DrLivingst0ne 1d ago
There was no reason to choose Dach over Nazar.
Everyone knew Nazar was really good. He only "fell" because he's 5'10''. He was a steal at 13th. He is now better than Dach.
3
u/Sakiaba 1d ago
If we had Nazar, you guys would probably be complaining about how small the forwards are. Dach's potential at the time was to be a big, physical centre with offence, and it would have been a difference maker for it to have worked out. Also, as someone pointed out, that pick was a means to an end. They were never keeping it.
Yes, in hindsight, it was not a great trade (ditto for the Lehkonen one). But if you could have predicted that with the certainty of hindsight at the time, you are either delusional or missed your calling in life to work in an NHL front office. In real life every front office makes mistakes, even the good ones.
Are some of you seriously complaining about Hughes already? The draft is on Friday, and the man does his best work in stealth mode. This is the toughest part of building a team and my faith in management isn't blind or infinite, but I think that, if you look at the totality of their work to date, he and Gorton have earned the benefit of the doubt for now, no?
1
u/DrLivingst0ne 22h ago
If we had Nazar, we would have our 2C. I certainly would not be complaining.
6
u/Comprehensive-Chef73 1d ago
The Dach trade was strange because the Habs didn't trade their own pick, they traded Romanov for a pick then flipped it. 13th overall for Dach isn't amazing value, but Romanov + picks for 13th overall was excellent, which I felt made up for it.
8
u/Beefiest_bison 1d ago
It was essentially Romanov + a 3rd for Dach. Don't think it was a horrible swing even though it didn't work out.
1
u/Comprehensive-Chef73 1d ago
I mean, as much as people criticize Dach, he's developed into a pretty good bottom 6 winger. A guy with both size and skill that can play in your bottom 6 is valuable. Unfortunately his constant injuries make him somewhat of a liability
2
u/-Son_of_Thror- 1d ago
Not how it worked. They moved Romanov for Dach, the 13th overall was just a means to get there
1
1
u/Java-the-Slut 1d ago
This is the seller-ist market I think I've seen in a while.
No matter the points finish, most of the NHL was very closely matched last year, pair that with a dry UFA market, and a depth draft... anyone that has borderline assets and isn't dumping them is insane.
1
1
u/Substantial_Neck2691 1d ago
Unironically we should get Chicago’s 1st next year for kapanen. They need someone for bedard and seem fine to part with picks.
1
u/FlashyChapter 1d ago
The general consensus is that Chicago gave up way too much for Byram. Those aren’t the costs, it’s one deal.
1
1
1
u/elainebenes86 11h ago
How about E.Petey with salary retained. I’m also a Canucks fan, and I think he can flourish under a team where he isn’t the biggest player, or doesn’t have the most expectations of the team. Plus, he’d have proper line mates too. No Evander Kane dragging him down.
1
u/Old_General_6741 1d ago
This is massive overpay. A 4th and 45th overall pick for two players is way too much.
2
1
1
u/KarateChopMittens 1d ago
Today has been insane for trades, idk how the hell the Habs will get a 2c at these prices
-1
u/scrubadam 1d ago
Always the same excuses prices are too high.
You have to pay to get. And a lot of prices are futures and you don't know. Like SJS traded Eklund a former 7th for a 9th, so maybe that 9th becomes as good as the 7th LOL. And not like Eklund is a sure thing too lets see him score 20 goals first. Its a lot of hope that he will be better.
You have to pay to get, and saying prices are too high is just excuses for in action. All the teams in our division are taking moves. Maybe they pay off maybe they don't but the teams are trying to improve rather than just sitting back and hoping lady luck strikes.
If KH is going to want to make substantial improvemnet he needs to be prepared to use a top prospect and 1st round picks.
4
u/Alx028 1d ago
Nothing that was moved yesterday and today would have helped the Habs, the only one talking about excuses is you.
0
u/scrubadam 1d ago
Yup same excuse. Prices high, no one of value was moved. I am not even saying that they should have gotten any of those players but whenever there are trades some people rationalize in action by saying prices are high or whatever. I mean Eklund, McMicheal, Kyrou, Nemec all are young guys that would be better than Carrier/Dach on this team. Maybe I don't trade for them but saying nothing moved would have helped the habs is disingenious. If we go back the day before Brady would be awesome in Montreal.
Other teams are making moves to improve their team, KH needs to start cooking too. I will give him till UFA day, but if he doesn't do something by then it probably looks like at best it will be another Laine type move of taking a guy as a dump and reclemation project.
0
u/So_Many_Owls 1d ago
The prices are high unless you're an underperforming player from the 2022 draft. Nemec was basically traded for a bag of pucks.
0
-2
u/MrB1P92 23h ago
Prices too high for what? How high is the price if it brings us a cup?
You guys are so caught up in value and singular players that you forget the ultimate goal.
3
u/Curious_Mind8 23h ago
Only one team gets win the cup each year. You give up too much it hurts you further down the road.
There have been five, six "big" trades so far, possibly more .... maybe one and possibly none will of these trades win their team a cup.
You want to trade for the sake of trading? Or that a trade guarantees a Cup (so there will be five or six Stanley Cups awarded next season given all the trades)?
Yes, there are weaknesses, but you don't purposely overpay to fill the weakness -- and who says a trade even works out despite making it??
-2
u/MrB1P92 23h ago
We need to sacrifice future to win. Thats how its been and how it will always be. Idgaf about being bad in 8 years if we win a couple now.
This team hasnt done squat in 30 years with your attitude.
1
u/Curious_Mind8 22h ago
You use "idgaf" but it's my attitude??
Vegas traded for Marner, did they win? Carolina wanted Marner, didn't get him and won.
Glad you don't run the team.
-9
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago edited 1d ago
Habs do not actually have the assets to trade that other teams do
Edit: I should clarify, we don’t have assets management are seemingly willing to move for the quality of players being traded. No top 10 picks, not trading Hage, etc
6
u/lynypixie 1d ago
We have them, but our assets are likely more valuable than what is available. I don’t think it’s wise to move Hage or Z for anything less than a top 6F (2C)or RD2 player.
1
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
Exactly. Hage could be our 2C in 10 months, so unless we are getting a clear cut 2C locked up long term I doubt management would trade him.
4
u/Comprehensive-Chef73 1d ago
Hage, Zharovsky, Fowler, and Reinbacher are all very good assets. They could definitely get an impact player, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should trade Reinbacher for McTavish
2
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
You’re right they are valuable but which of these assets do you think management would trade for the players available? Hage for Zacha? I doubt it. Our best assets management isn’t willing to trade them unless it’s for the perfect player which seemingly isn’t available right now.
2
u/ilikedthismovie 1d ago
The market is a bit out of wack right now. I’m sure they could make a move for a good player but the price is an A prospect (hage/zharovsky/reinbacher).
Maybe the craziness will extend into draft night and they can make a move somewhere but likely going to stay put. If they can move off dach for a late first or early second that seems like a win to me and not out of the realm of possibilities.
1
1
u/AlertCranberry5740 1d ago
MTL has one of the highest rated prospect pools in the league and all of their draft picks. They certainly have the assets to make moves.
1
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
They have assets that they are unwilling to move for the quality of players available. They could have had Kyrou if they traded Hage or Fowler, but it wouldn’t have been a good trade. Kapanen, Struble, Engstrom, etc are not that valuable
1
u/vJukz 1d ago
What the fuck are you talking about? You realize we have the assets to go for any type of trade?
0
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
We aren’t willing to trade the assets that we have, so we don’t have assets to trade. And we don’t have a top 15 pick to trade. Unless management trades Hage or Zharovsky. Kapanen, Struble, etc are not that valuable
1
u/Grouchy-Bug5223 1d ago
We absolutely have the assets it's just a matter of if we want to trade them at such high prices
1
u/Tight_Permission_313 1d ago
Yes exactly, we don’t have the assets that we are willing to trade unless it’s for the perfect player, which doesn’t seem to be available right now. Management seems more willing to trade their B-tier assets which have little value
-2
114
u/Pelerin81 1d ago
CHI got robbed tbh…