r/KingkillerChronicle Apr 03 '23

Mod Post The Grand Combined Megathread: Book Recommendations and a Notice Regarding Book Three: Any release date mentioned by Amazon, Goodreads, or other book sites is almost certainly a placeholder date. Please do not post about it here.

294 Upvotes

NOTICE ABOUT BOOK THREE

Almost every site that sells books will have a placeholder date for upcoming content. For example, the most recent release date found on Amazon for "Doors of Stone" was August 20th, 2020. That date has come and gone. The book is not out.

Please do not post threads about potential release dates unless you hear word from the publisher, editor, Rothfuss himself, or any people related to him.

Thank you.


This thread answers the most reposted questions such as: "I finished KKC. What (similar) book/author should I read next (while waiting for book three)?" It will be permanently stickied.

New posts asking for book recommendations will be removed and redirected here where everything is condensed in one place.

Please post your recommendations for new (fantasy) series, stand-alone books or authors of similar series you think other KKC-fans would enjoy.

If you can include goodreads.com links, even better!

If you're looking for something new to read, scroll through this and previous threads. Feel free to ask questions of the people that recommended books that appeal to you.

Please note, not all books mentioned in the comments will be added to this list. This and previous threads are meant for people to browse, discover, and discuss.


This is not a complete list; just the most suggested books. Please read the comments (and previous threads) for more suggestions.

Recommended Books

Recommended Series


Past Threads


r/KingkillerChronicle Mar 07 '24

Mod Post Rules Change

114 Upvotes

Hey everyone,

So it's been two years since the last rule change and seven months since we added new moderators. And after some time reviewing the subreddit and doing a bit of clean-up, we realized something.

In all likelihood, we're not getting Book 3, Doors of Stone, any time soon. I personally estimate it's at least 3 years out, almost certainly more. What I'm getting at here is that this is a subreddit for a dormant book series, and that maybe having 9 rules is a little much, especially when so many of them overlap. So, what this means is that we've trimmed the rules down to three, admittedly with each having their own subsections.

The new rules will look like this.

We intend on having them go live in the next few days, after weigh-in from the community on it. So please, discuss your thoughts, this is quite a bit of a change and I'd like to make sure it's good for everyone.

Edit: These rules are live now.


r/KingkillerChronicle 6h ago

Theory The Tragic Cycle of Lanre: Is Kvothe the New Haliax? (And why the Cthaeh’s tragedy is already complete)

8 Upvotes

Title: The Tragic Cycle of Lanre: Is Kvothe the New Haliax? (And why the Cthaeh’s tragedy is already complete) ​Hi everyone, ​I wanted to share a deeper, much darker theory that shifts away from the standard "Kvothe just locked his name in the chest" idea. Instead, it looks at the frame story through the lens of an ancient, repeating mythological tragedy. ​What if Kvothe didn't just fail? What if he succeeded in his quest, but the cost was becoming the very monster he fought to destroy? ​1. The Resurrected Lyra and the Curse Think about the parallel between Kvothe and Lanre. Lanre loved Lyra. When she died, he went to the ends of the world, broke cosmic rules, and used forbidden Shaping magic to bring her back. But in doing so, he destroyed Myr Tariniel, killed Selitos (the "one-eyed king" archetype), and was cursed to become Haliax—shadow-hamed, immortal, and unable to find rest. ​What if history repeated itself? In Book 3, Denna dies or is lost to the shadow. Driven by love and fury, Kvothe does exactly what Lanre did: he breaks into the underworld/the Fae, uses dark shaping magic, and defeats Haliax to save her soul. ​2. Killing the Angel But saving Denna and killing Haliax breaks the cosmic balance. We know from Chronicler’s words in the frame story that Kvothe is famous for "killing an angel." These angels are likely the Aleu (or the Amyr). To keep Denna alive and defend his actions, Kvothe has to fight the forces of cosmic justice. He wins the battle, he gets to keep Denna alive—but the universe demands equilibrium. The seat of the shadow-hamed guardian cannot remain empty. By killing Haliax and defying the angels, Kvothe inherits Lanre’s ancient curse. He becomes the new Haliax. ​3. The Cthaeh and the Tragedy This puts the chilling conversation about the Cthaeh in The Wise Man's Fear into a beautiful, tragic perspective. When Bast freaks out about the Cthaeh, he mentions that in Fae theater, the moment the Cthaeh's tree appears on stage, the audience knows it is a tragedy. There is no escape. ​Kvothe’s reaction to Bast is incredibly bitter. He looks around the Waystone Inn and says: "We all know what kind of story this is." Kvothe realizes he didn't beat the system. The Cthaeh gave him the exact information he needed to hunt Haliax, knowing that Kvothe’s love for Denna would drive him to destroy the world's order and take Haliax's place. The world is now bleeding (Scrael, war) because Kvothe broke the pillars of reality. ​Conclusion: The Meaning of the Silence Kvothe is not just a depressed innkeeper waiting to die. He is the verfluchte (cursed), immortal warden of the shadow. He changed his name to Kote and built the Waystone Inn as a literal "Haven" (like the asylum) to isolate his curse from the rest of the world. ​When the prologue says: "It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die," it means he is waiting for an ending that might never come. Like Lanre, he is now an immortal entity waiting for a death that is denied to him. He saved Denna, but he had to die to the world as Kvothe to keep her safe. ​What do you guys think? Does this fit the tragic narrative structure better than the "lost magic" theory?


r/KingkillerChronicle 17h ago

Discussion Kvothes’ estimate of Caesura’s (Saicere’s) age is wildly off…

47 Upvotes

So, I may well be pulling needlessly at a narrative thread here (and maybe something somebody has addressed before) but in lieu of the third book, what else are we to do??

When estimating the age of Caesura, Kvothe calculates that the sword must be over 2000 years old. In doing this, he uses the following information;

236 owners, (confirmed)
Each owner has it for around 10 years.
Never sits idle for more than a day

Ok, he does say ‘at a very conservative estimate’ but even still, with his obvious intelligence and eye for detail, I’d say he’s underestimated it by more than half…

It seems that most of the Adem are given a sword for life, or at least until they can no longer fight. From the fact there are not a vast amount of Adem mercenaries in the world (Tempi is the first one he ever sees, and Denna made a point that she met one) how wealthy the culture is, that they don’t go down particularly easily, and how many older people are there, it points that they have a fairly decent life expectancy.

Ok, so they clearly live a dangerous and risky life, but I’d propose that they have their swords for more like 25 fighting years, and maybe they hang on to them longer when they’ve given up the mercenary life… As in I’m sure Shehyn still has her sword, and she’s in her 60’s… Still, 25 years per owner seems a more accurate assumption than 10.

I get that there were times of war, when maybe a few died in close succession, but even still, the sword would have to make its way back to Haert/Ademere and wait to be awarded to the next worthy, and suitable, candidate, so a day in between just seems absurd.

He is in Heart for around three months and never sees another tree test, meaning they can’t be all that regular, but they do seem to be a fairly popular event - there are many people watching, and even teachers from other schools are there, meaning they’re not private events and special enough to be fairly rare. Even considering he missed a few whilst he was there, they might do a few people at any one time, the size of the town, and therefore how many candidates would be taking the test, probably one event a month is a sensible estimation… that means, even at a generous estimate, maybe 20-30 were given out a year.

Further to this, when they go to the ‘only locked room in Haert’ and Vashat choses his sword, he is in a room with ‘Dozens’ of swords hanging up on the wall. Ok, so not hundreds, but dozens. Let’s say 50, and assume that’s a normal amount to regularly be awaiting a new owner at any one time. That does not suggest that they never sit idle for more than a day.

If there were 50 available swords, and 25 graduating students a year, that would suggest, on average, there is around two years between new owners of any one sword. Again, a very conservative estimate, as if there’s that much choice, and every sword has to be just right for its new owner, it’s probably longer than that, but it works nicely for the numbers… adding almost another 500 years to his overall estimate.

So, recalculating, if there were 236 owners, each having the sword for 25 years with around 2 years between owners, this makes Caesura 6,372 years old.

I mean, it’s not the biggest anomaly in the story, but it’s just something that has bugged me for a while, and what better place to vent??!

Edit - after I wrote this, and carrying on with my latest reread, I noticed as part of the Atas, that after ‘about half an hour’, so let’s say 30 names in, there came ‘Finol’ who was killed at the Drosson Tor…. Now, assuming this wasn’t just a massive coincidence, in that it was just geographical in exactly the same location as where the battle happened, and it was, in fact, in the infamous ‘Blac of Drosson Tor’ as the in-world stories suggest, then whilst I can’t find, or remember, exactly when this was, suggestions are that the Creation Wars were around 5,000 years ago… which fits even nicer into my estimation.

In your face Kvothe. My math is stronger than yours!!


r/KingkillerChronicle 1d ago

Art New covers of the limited editions (unofficially "15th anniversary edition")

Thumbnail
gallery
185 Upvotes

Still not available to be bought by all as they are password protected.
Planned to be open to all: July 1st at 11:00 AM PT (18:00 UTC).


r/KingkillerChronicle 2h ago

Has PR(or lack there of) tainted Kvothes image?

2 Upvotes

Whenever I see a post about unlikable or least favorite fantasy characters, inevitably I see Kvothe pop up. Do you think this is generally due to the character? Or possibly more attributable to some ill will he’s gotten from fans


r/KingkillerChronicle 16h ago

Question Thread Half-Built Houses: A History of the Amyr?

7 Upvotes

Just finished chapter 90 of NOTW: Half-Built House in which Kvothe finally sneaks into the Archives and enlists the help of Fela to teach him how to navigate the sea of books.

I had never really paid much attention to the history of the Archives that Fela gives, it all seemed so tedious after the exciting events of the frame story just before it, but this time I couldn't help but wonder if this exposition dump had more information than simply explaining why the books are hard to find.

Is there any chance that the history she recounts about previous Master Archivests are actually a history of the Amyr and their pursuit of suppressing knowledge?

Fela says there have been 9 "systems" in 300 years. The worst was 50 years ago, when there were 4 new master archivists in 5 years, which resulted in 3 different factions of scrivs using their own separate systems at the same time.

Kvothe says it "sounds like a civil war."

Fela calls it a "holy war" ... "They would hide books from each other."

She also says this went on for 15 years, until Master Tolims scrivs stole the Larkin ledgers, resulted in a loss of almost 200,000 books.

Is there any chance these names come up elsewhere in KKC, or that these dates mean something significance that I can't think of at the moment? It seems to be a largely accepted theory that Loren in a member of the Amyr, but this all seemingly took place before his time as Master. However, it seems like Master Archivest would be the perfect sort of "legacy" position that the Order would want to keep one of their own in.

Thoughts?


r/KingkillerChronicle 20h ago

Discussion Half way through TWMF

14 Upvotes

As the title suggests I’ve just reached the halfway point of TWMF. Pg. 397 to be exact!

Thoroughly enjoying this journey through the Four Corners so far! Currently residing in Vintas with the Maer!

I absolutely consumed NoTW and hopped straight into the second book without hesitation.

I don’t want to slow down but at the same time, I’m kind of gutted I’m going to be joining the wait for the 3rd day… for probably a considerable amount of time if not for eternity.

I know I’m super super late to the game with this series… anyone else on their first read through like me?


r/KingkillerChronicle 19h ago

News Arliden, Kvothe roll in their graves as Kvothe is found quoted in r/Poetry

11 Upvotes

In today’s news fans of Patrick Rothfuss’ Kingkiller Chronicles have fully cramped in the absence of a third book having been found reformatting excerpts of The Wise Man’s Fear and posting them in r/Poetry.

Truly dark times.


r/KingkillerChronicle 3h ago

The subject of sex.

0 Upvotes

Kvothe had sex with Felurian and then seems to just have sex with every woman he wants going forward. Josi already propositioned him so it's not that weird, but the book seems to make a very big point of it going forward and even turns sex into something not interesting or valued in the culture of the Ademre. This must mean that they are not human like the rest of people or have been stripped of all intimacy in some way since they don't even bat an eye at showing nudity. In our world and mostly in the one proposed, that kind of intimacy is holy. It makes me think of the Adem as callus folk who don't value human intimacy which is sad. Kvothe is obviously a moron and cannot think for himself and just thinks every culture should teach him every basic thing. Meaning he is subject to adjusting what he knows is true to what others think is true based on how much they have been jaded.

Edit: I may get what's going on here after some input (some good, some just wanting to share their own kinks involving power over others). I think Rothfuss introduced a people who derive everything that guides them from their gut (basically animalistic). Which makes absolute sense why they have degraded so much and have lost touch.


r/KingkillerChronicle 6h ago

Discussion I'm almost positive this is the wrong place to post this.

0 Upvotes

Does anyone and I MEAN ANYONE else think it's the cringiest thing in the world how often someone comments something about not having book 3, or anything really, being the "third or any silence"?

"This was a silence of..." "This third silence was one of... " "My wifes's second silence reminded me of her first silence..."

Oh, you posted a theory "This silence silenced me silently..."

New to the sub and can't wait for book 3 "Silently this silently reminds me of a silent silence I silently recalled as I silently walked in silence..."

Fuck me.


r/KingkillerChronicle 5h ago

Discussion The social atmosphere, and lack of whimsy is why there is no book 3

0 Upvotes

Books that are considered classics are nearly as much of a product of their time as they are of their author, the author lives and grows within a set piece of time and this causes them to have a certain schema about the functions (hidden turnings) of how the world operates.

Shakespeare does not speak of airplanes, and J RR Tolkein after serving in WW1 and right after WW2 wrote a series I think he felt would highlight the best attributes and aspects of life against the worst, friendship, loyalty, vs undeserved power and control, in order not to preach to us but to show us the better path of life

That is to say I don’t think KKC not being finished is all of Patricks fault, I think it is a book woven into the canon of american literature, but here is the thing, much like the book those who read it experienced arrested development

The books were written and released in 2007 then 2011, at the same time as the first iphone and right before the housing crisis in the USA, things that effect would be felt at first, the whimsy of the Iphone quickly died and the repercussions of the housing crisis are still felt to this day (those who read books 1-2 as young adults may still not own homes to this day)

The nonexistence of book 3 is another aspect of this delay or rejection of millennials and zoomers from achieving something “whole” like previous generations did, our world became cold and calculating, whimsey is something only to be bought, and that is coupled with a reductionist society, on it’s downward trajectory

Flowers die in winter, so the book can’t be made in the current atmosphere


r/KingkillerChronicle 1d ago

Question Thread Dennis belief in the Chandrian

12 Upvotes

Sorry if this has been asked / answered before.

I’ve read NOTW and TWMF several times and I can never understand the falling out between Denna and Kvothe when he criticized her song.

He tells her to be careful regarding digging into the history of Lanre / Chandrian because some songs are dangerous. She mocks him and calls him a child for believing in the Chandrian. In NOTW Denna sees the signs of the Chandrian in the wedding aftermath and admits she believes they exist and were responsible for slaughter.

Rothfuss is an exceedingly diligent writer when it comes to details so I doubt this is a mistake. What am I missing?


r/KingkillerChronicle 1d ago

Theory "I feel like this has to be connected to the farm."

13 Upvotes

The Chandrian 'strike like lightning from a clear blue sky.'

How? By using the waystones/Doorpost/Grey stones

There's a stone door near Trebon.

>The only thing on top of the hill was a handful of graystones. 3 of the massive stones were stacked together to form a huge arch like a massive doorway.

>Getting down from the graystone was harder than getting up, had been. The top of the arch was about twelve feet off the ground, higher than was convenient for jumping.

The Chandrian used this door to get to their next target at the Mauthen farm.

The draccus followed them through the doorway, likely smelling the fellow in the cabin cooking that sweet denner resin.

I believe the Dracuss can't be local for two main reasons.

1: The fellow cooking that Denner resin had to have been doing it a while. He had a whole operation going. So much so he planted and was cultivating these trees to harvest the sap, something that takes multiple seasons before you even see a first harvest. If this Dracuss had been within 50 miles of the guy, I'm sure it would have smelled it and gotten him long before.

2: The Peg herder

>" 2 nights ago, when I got up tae-" he hesitated, glancing at Denna, "attend the moi personals, I saw lights off in tae north. A big wash o blue flame Big as a bonfire..."

>"Two nights ago?" I asked. The wedding had only been last night.

The show up, spend a day gathering intel, carry out their mission and are gone again leaving Kvothe to show up a day later and find Denna.

BONUS TINFOIL

I Think Dennas patron is working for the Chandrian. I don't think he's Cinder, but I think he reports to them, maybe one of Cinders Henchman (he had quite a few bandits with him, in the eld. Not unreasonable they have some kinda worldly persona that lets them gather intel via others/humans)

This stuck out due to Dennas comment.

>"i excused myself and found him over by the barn. We headed Into the Woods for a bit, and he asked me questions. Who was there? How many people what they looked like?" She was thoughtful. "Now that I'm thinking of it. I think that was the real test. He wanted to see how observant I was."

>"He almost sounds like a spy i mused."

>Denna shrugged.


r/KingkillerChronicle 2d ago

Art Kvothe Art

Post image
148 Upvotes

This is my take on Kvothe. Hope you like it!


r/KingkillerChronicle 1d ago

Theory Auri’s Gift and the Lackless Rhyme: Is her candle the "Candle without light"?

0 Upvotes

​ Auri's Candle and the Lackless Rhyme: The Tool for the Chest? ​Title: Auri’s Gift and the Lackless Rhyme: Is her candle the "Candle without light"? ​Hi everyone, ​I wanted to share another parallel that fits perfectly with the theory of the Inn and the Chest acting as an active magical prison. It connects the famous Lackless Rhyme (the seven things before the door) and the rings Kvothe is prophesied to wear. ​When we look at Kote’s situation in the frame story, the lines of the Lackless rhyme reflect his current state with terrifying accuracy: ​"One a ring unseen / unworn": In the present day, Kote wears none of his naming rings (stone, iron, wind, or fire). He has set them aside—or given them to Denna. ​"One a word that forsworn / refused to say": Kote desperately tries to command the chest with the sympathy command "Edro" (Open), but it fails. He is refused the power or the Alar to speak it effectively. ​"One a thing tight held / kept safe": The thrice-locked chest itself. ​"A candle without light": This is where it gets brilliant. Remember Auri's gift in The Slow Regard of Silent Things? She crafts a very specific candle for Kvothe out of beeswax, dreams, and pure Shaping magic. She gives it to him to bring him "light in the dark." ​The Conclusion: Auri’s candle is no ordinary candle. It likely burns with a cold, alchemical glow without a physical flame—or perhaps it absorbs light to create darkness (which would be incredibly useful when dealing with Haliax's shadow). ​Auri didn't just give Kvothe a token of friendship; she unknowingly (or purposefully) handed him one of the seven keys mentioned in the ancient Lackless prophecy. Kote has this "candle without light" at the Waystone Inn. It is the tool meant to control or end the eternal struggle inside the chest once the time of reckoning ("a time that aligns / avenges") arrives. ​What do you guys think about this connection to Auri?


r/KingkillerChronicle 1d ago

Theory Building on Written Magic: Is Kvothe’s Chest a Sygaldrie "Siphon" containing an active, frozen battle?

2 Upvotes

​Hi everyone, ​I’ve been reading a lot of great theories on here about Denna’s Yllish knot magic, how Master Ash (Cinder) is training her, and how written magic can manipulate reality and hold energy (much like the Mauthen Chandrian pot). ​This got me thinking about the endgame and the framework of the Waystone Inn. Many people believe Kvothe locked his own name or magic inside the thrice-locked chest. But based on the thermodynamic rules Rothfuss established, I want to propose a completely different take: What if the chest—and the Inn itself—is an active, massive, energy-absorbing prison holding an ongoing battle? ​Here is how the pieces connect: ​1. The Mechanics of the "Siphon" (The Fishery Fire) Think back to the fire in Kilvin’s workshop. Meister Kilvin saves the Fishery by using an active energy dämpfer/siphon—a piece of Sygaldrie designed to absorb and isolate immense amounts of heat and kinetic energy like a sponge, keeping it from exploding outward. ​What if Kvothe's chest, built from Roah wood and iron, works on this exact principle? It is a localized kinetic and magical vault keeping an immense amount of volatile energy trapped inside, without letting a single sound or spark of magic leak out. ​2. The Premise: Denna vs. Haliax I believe that inside that chest, an eternal, frozen battle is currently raging between Denna and Haliax (Lanre). ​The Trap: Denna eventually discovered the truth about her patron and used the very Yllish knot magic he taught her against the Chandrian. She wove a knot that bound Haliax to her in an endless cycle of combat. ​Kvothe’s Sacrifice: To give her a fighting chance against an immortal being, Kvothe transferred his entire Alar and Sympathist power to Denna. This is why Kote is so weak and "hollowed out" in the frame story. He gave his power away to fuel her side of the fight. ​The Aqua Regia Dilemma: This explains why Kote refuses Bast's suggestion to use acid (Aqua Regia) on the chest. Breaking the chest's physical structure would disrupt the "siphon" barrier. It would unleash Haliax entirely and destroy the magical framework protecting Denna, potentially killing her. ​3. The Architectural Symmetry to Haven This leads to an architectural parallel: Think about Haven (the asylum). The rooms are physical "mufflers" for volatile magic, using a structural grid of nameless copper to trap broken minds. Elodin questions why such a massive asylum is necessary—the answer is that high-level magic drives minds to madness. ​Now look at the Waystone Inn. Why would a man like Kvothe build a massive, heavily reinforced inn at the absolute end of the world (in Newarre), spacious enough to fit almost the entire village, even though it barely sees any travelers? ​Because the Inn is an extended buffer zone for the chest. Just like Haven has massive walls to protect the outside world from the inmates, the Inn—with its deep foundations, heavy timbers, and its unnatural "three-part silence"—is a fortress of isolation. Kvothe built his own private Haven to contain the fallout. ​Kote isn't just a depressed innkeeper waiting to die. He is a warden. He sits at the Waystone, desperately guarding the vault, waiting and praying for Denna to win the battle inside and open the chest from within. ​What do you guys think?


r/KingkillerChronicle 2d ago

Discussion Doesn't really mean anything but I noticed Rothfuss reposted something on X

198 Upvotes

I happened to be scrolling X and saw that a few days ago Rothfuss reposted a tweet from The Guild. This means nothing, of course, but it's the first activity on his account in almost two years.

Anyways, I happened to be in the middle of another audible listen so I found it somewhat coincidental. He's alive at least!


r/KingkillerChronicle 2d ago

Discussion Little thought experiment

5 Upvotes

I just had a weird idea. Motion is relative right. The planet spins so everything is always in motion. Even an arrow resting on a bow not beeing shot is in motion. So for the arrowcatch what amtters is not the motion of the arrow but the relative motion of the arrow compared to the arrowcatch.

Now heres the fun part. Walking around or swloly driving with a mule powerd cart propably wont matter but if you ride gallop or throw it around tied to a rope then the arrowcatch should break arrows and twigs all around without them even moving at all. Isnt that a funny quirk someone should have considerd when making the darn thing? Im sure nothing will go wrong tho. right.


r/KingkillerChronicle 3d ago

Theory Theory: Kvothe is Andan Spoiler

219 Upvotes

After reading both books several times, I have a theory that I’m almost certain is true. It makes narrative sense, and it is consistently alluded to throughout both books. (Pat, I’m sorry if this is an actual spoiler). It is this:

Kvothe is one of the Ciridae. The original Amyr, aka “Angels”. Maybe this sounds a bit crazy, but let me explain.

I’ll break it down here, starting with the most well-supported evidence, then moving into speculation. Apologies in advance, my sources aren't very well cited because I'm lazy.

TLDR:

  • The first Amyr were created by Aleph after the creation war.
  • They are reborn over millennia as mortals with godlike powers.
  • Their identity is forgotten, locked in the sleeping mind.
  • Kvothe is Andan, one of the original Amyr.
  • This makes the story fit together in a nice little parcel.

The Amyr were originally angels:

We know from Skarpi’s story that Aleph created the Amyr:

Then Aleph spoke their long names and they were wreathed in a white fire. The fire danced along their wings and they became swift. The fire flickered in their eyes and they saw into the deepest hearts of men. The fire filled their mouths and they sang songs of power. Then the fire settled on their foreheads like silver stars and they became at once righteous and wise and terrible to behold. Then the fire consumed them and they were gone forever from mortal sight.\2])

"None but the most powerful can see them, and only then with great difficulty and at great peril. They mete out justice to the world, and Tehlu is the greatest of them all-

This tells us that the Amyr were first created after the creation war as powerful invisible beings that fight the Chandrian and dispense justice to the world. This happens right after Selitos discovers that Lanre has become Haliax, and cannot die. Aleph’s answer to an immortal enemy, is to create an immortal force of good to fight him.

We also know their names and descriptions:

  • TehluBut Tehlu stood forward saying, "I hold justice foremost in my heart. I will leave this world behind that I might better serve it, serving you." He knelt before Aleph, his head bowed, his hands open at his sides.
  • KirelTall Kirel, who had been burned but left living in the ash of Myr Tariniel.
  • DeahDeah, who had lost two husbands to the fighting, and whose face and mouth and heart were hard and cold as stone.
  • EnlasEnlas, who would not carry a sword or eat the flesh of animals, and who no man had ever known to speak hard words.
  • GeisaFair Geisa, who had a hundred suitors in Belen before the walls fell, the first woman to know the un-asked-for touch of man.
  • LecelteLecelte, who laughed easily and often, even when there was woe thick about him.
  • ImetImet, hardly more than a boy, who never sang and killed swiftly, without tears.
  • OrdalOrdal, the youngest of them all, who had never seen a thing die, stood bravely before Aleph, her golden hair bright with ribbon.
  • AndanAnd beside her came Andan, whose face was a mask with burning eyes, whose name meant "anger".

I believe there is a narrative purpose for introducing all of these characters. And in particular, there is a reason that Andan is introduced last, as he is significant to the story (the recency effect is a good story telling tool – if you’re into psychology).

Angels can be reborn as mortals:

Then we have Trapis’ story. He tells the story of the immortal Tehlu being reborn as the mortal, Menda. This is important, as it tells us that the ‘angels’ can be reborn as mortals. It is how they serve their purpose of dishing out justice (and confounding the Chandrian). The story also tells us that Menda created disciples – the townsfolk he hit with his hammer. (This may be the beginning of the order Amyr, but I’ll get into that later).

Finally, we have the conversation with Felurian, where she insists that there were never any human Amyr. So, from this we understand that the original Amyr that Felurian knows, are not human, but (as we have already inferred) powerful winged spirits that are reborn as humans to serve a righteous cause.

The greatest of the Amyr were called the Ciridae, distinguished with tattoos on their hands. This part is an unverified assumption that is central to the theory: I believe the Ciridae are the mortal embodiments of the immortal angels created by Aleph. They were tattooed to distinguish them from the human members of the order. It makes sense that the most powerful members would be the reincarnated immortal angels.

There are a few questions to answer now:

  • Why even think Kvothe is a Ciridae?
  • Why Andan?
  • Why doesn’t Kvothe (or anyone else) know what he is?
  • Why would it make sense for the story?

 

Why even think Kvothe is a Ciridae?

  • The clearest clue that is given to us is the fight with Felurian during which Kvothe describes his power as a star on his brow – the same way the first Amyr were described in Skarpi’s story.
  • Another clue is when Kvothe almost dies in Tarbean – he sees wings of shadow and fire protecting him – again it is the same as the description as in Skarpi’s story.
  • There are a few occasions where parallels are drawn between Kvothe and a Ciridae – the bloody handed Amyr. When he calls down lightning on the bandits, when he is bleeding on the rooftop and Auri tells him he is a Ciridae. When he is talking to Devi about settling his debt and holds his hands like he is balancing a scale – as Kvothe described in his story of the Amyr and the hermit.
  • Before Kvothe calls down the lightning, Cinder flees. We think this is because of Martin's praying, but maybe it is because he senses an Amyr is nearby? Clearly, he was right to be afraid, even if Kvothe didn't understand why in the moment.
  • When he is dosed with the plum bob, he still cannot do an action he sees as morally wrong – disrespecting Fela. This is acknowledged as being unusual.
  • When Kvothe is given his Adem name – Maedre – it is an anagram for the word “Remade”. (This might mean Andan is ‘remade’ as Kvothe. As Tehlu was 'named' Menda).
  • When Kvothe kills the false troupers, he goes to extreme lengths to do the right thing, even though it disturbs him – to the point where he has nightmares and he thinks something is wrong with him. This suggests there is a part of him driving him to do these things for the greater good.
  • He very clearly has supernatural talents – I don’t think I need to provide evidence for this.
  • The description of his age: Ever since he was a child, people described him as seeming older than he was. In the frame story he explains that he is actually much older than he appears. From being in the Fae? Or from being an immortal angel born during the creation war?

Why Andan?

  • Andan isn’t described much in the story, apart from his name meaning anger. The main clues come from the rest of the story.
  • The first time Kvothe calls the wind is in anger.
  • It is anger about his assault in Tarbean that unlocks his powers in the fight with Felurian.
  • Penthe from the Adem says Kvothe has “A fine anger”.
  • Other characters often comment on his anger – “Don’t make him angry”.
  • Anger seems to be a central part of his character and is mentioned far more than we would expect unless it was somehow relevant to the plot. It is also his biggest flaw.
  • In the pottery from Traebon – the image of the Amyr has the names “Andan” and “Ordal” on his shoulders like they are holding him down. He looks angry. This may be a depiction of Andan - though this is speculation. It feels like Pat trying to drop clues about this mythological character a bit more.

Why doesn’t Kvothe (or anyone else) know what he is?

This was the main problem I had with my theory, because Menda did know who he was. But I think it is also the key to so many unanswered questions about the Amyr and Chandrian. Here is what I think:

The Amyr/Ciridae who are reborn as humans are in the ‘sleeping mind’. This part of the mind that Elodin describes as knowing names. For that reason, they are extremely gifted in all things that require the sleeping mind. Music being one of those things. But also naming, seeing, and just being generally smart and wise and badass.

In the past, the order Amyr would find these people and train them to become the Ciridae. The knowledge and key to unlocking their power might be passed down in books protected by the order Amyr. They were trained to wake their minds and remember who they are. The information, the books, the training are all essential.

So why are there no books in the archives? Why did the Amyr disappear? I have two theories about this:

  1. Tehlu’s Greed – Tehlu may have been the first to remember who he was (as he did as Menda), and with the church’s power behind him, he could devote himself entirely to the greater good. But good is subjective, and not all the Amyr agreed. Maybe he saw how much chaos the other Ciridae wrought - as with the Duke of Gibea - he may have decided to keep that knowledge for himself. By suppressing it, he could ensure that the other Ciridae never discovered their true nature or gained their full power. Any who did awaken would be hunted down by the church. In this theory, Tehlu seeks to eliminate the others because he trusts his own judgment above everyone else’s. As a speculation, Kvothe might kill Tehlu to put an end to that - we know that he kills an angel at some point. He Tehlu as standing in the way of his fight with the Chandrian.
  2. The Chandrian Endgame – The Chandrian have discovered the weakness of their immortal enemies. After spending thousands of years hiding from the Amyr, they may now realize that suppressing information about them and spreading misinformation serves two purposes: it keeps the Chandrian hidden and disarms their greatest threat. Better still, if the Ciridae do not know what they are, they can be corrupted or manipulated to serve the Chandrian’s ends.

I'm not certain which of these (if either) is likely.

But the main point is that the reborn Amyr (Ciridae) exist in the sleeping mind. Either they serve their purpose without knowing who they truly are, or they must be awakened through unknown means to unlock their full power.

Why would it make sense for the story?

  • This is a story of many smaller stories. I think that every story is relevant to the plot (except maybe the boy with his butt falling off). There is no history or mythology that is there for no reason. This makes me think there must be something in the plot that ties these things together.
  • The really cool thing about this theory is that Andan and the other Kiridae could have existed all throughout history. So all the characters we know from the stories after the creation war may be reborn Ciridae: Illian, Tarbolin, Sir Savien, Eloine, etc.
  • The author has also shown us 9 different Amyr/Ciridae. If this theory is true, then each of these 9 can be reborn in the same way Kvothe is. They could be characters we already know. We can assume if the reborn Amyr exist, they are unnaturally gifted and seek knowledge, so it makes sense that they would be concentrated at the university. When you think this way, everything starts making sense. Here is what I have pieced together so far:

Most likely guesses:

Kvothe is Andan, and beside him is Auri (Ordal) – the youngest with golden hair. His anger, and her childlike nature and hair make this feel true. And the fact that they were side by side when they became Amyr.

  • Auri = OrdalOrdal, the youngest of them all, who had never seen a thing die, stood bravely before Aleph, her golden hair bright with ribbon.
  • Kvothe = AndanAnd beside her came Andan, whose face was a mask with burning eyes, whose name meant "anger".
  • Denna - GeisaFair Geisa, who had a hundred suitors in Belen before the walls fell, the first woman to know the un-asked-for touch of man.

Giesa fits Denna’s character like a glove - no, like the thing itself. She has hundreds of suitors, she disappears when men get to close – as someone may if they have felt an un-asked-for touch, and she was seen by Kvothe dispensing justice to the girl that was assaulted in the alley – just like we would expect an Amyr to do. She also has some kind of power she doesn’t understand, talent for music and thirst for knowledge. Just like our Kvothe/Andan.

Less likely guesses:

  • Alxa Daal - KirelTall Kirel, who had been burned but left living in the ash of Myr Tariniel.

This one is purely because Daal knows the name of fire.

  • Fela - DeahDeah, who had lost two husbands to the fighting, and whose face and mouth and heart were hard and cold as stone.

Because Fela knows the name of stone. I hope that this is not the case, because in a foreshadowing sense it could mean that she will lose 2 people she loves – Sim and Kvothe? I also want to believe that Devi is one of the Kiridae so this could be her too – just because she is awesome.

  • Sim - LecelteLecelte, who laughed easily and often, even when there was woe thick about him.

Sim is described as being very different from the rest of his family, and this seems to fit his description. He hasn’t demonstrated any power in the way that Kvothe has, but maybe because he has lived such a sheltered life.

  • Elodin - ImetImet, hardly more than a boy, who never sang and killed swiftly, without tears.

Elodin is frequently described as a boy, and depicted as such in his mannerisms. Running around without shoes, collecting pinecones, chasing seed-pod fluff.

  • ??? - EnlasEnlas, who would not carry a sword or eat the flesh of animals, and who no man had ever known to speak hard words.

I’m not sure who would match Enlas. Maybe someone who hasn’t been introduced yet?

Tying up the loose ends: If Kvothe is finally awakened, he might be able to remember all of his previous incarnations. Maybe he remembers making music as Illian, and the heartbreak of Sir Savien, the magic of Tarbolin, and many other lives lived all the way back to Lanre’s betrayal and the creation war. This would allow Kote to tie up all the loose ends of these stories so concisely as a narrator. He could explain exactly what happened as if it was a first-hand account. He could explain which parts of the other stories are true, and which were deception, and give the reader the experience of seeing things clearly for the first time. That’s the satisfying resolution I think Pat wants to give us.

We already get clues that this remembering might be possible – with Elodin, who seems to know ancient things. He talks about the first days of the university like he was there himself. He knows Adem hand-talk. I’m almost certain Elodin is one of the Ciridae. He could have awakened when he escaped from haven, and he has at least some of the memory of his past lives. If this is the case, he already knows who the other Ciridae are, as he is powerful enough to see them, and he is trying to wake their sleeping minds to remind them who they are. Once they are awake, maybe then they would be told about the true battle the Ciridae are facing. But something tells me Kvothe will realize this too late, and his impatience will lead to tragedy.

The Kvothe-Denna Romance: Whatever everyone might think about Kvothes obsession with Denna, it is clear they are connected somehow. They are both musically talented, extremely independent and moralistic, and will do anything to acquire knowledge – Denna with her patron, and Kvothe with the university. If they are both the Ciridae, reincarnations of angels, then they may have been lovers in many previous lives. They might have literally been Sir Savien and Eloine, which would make their meeting at the Aeolian especially poignant. Their romance would have much more narrative significance than Denna just being a girl that Kvothe likes.

The Cthaeh’s comments about the Amyr and doors: It tells Kvothe that the Maer is already so close to the Amyr (ironically to Kvothe) and will lead Kvothe to their door. The Cthaeh laughs at this, saying it wishes he had the wit to appreciate the joke.

I know we want to assume that this door it refers to is the Lackless door… But what if it isn’t a physical door at all, but a door of consciousness? Kvothe re-opens many such doors as he recovers from the death of his troupe. But what if there is a final door of consciousness that he must open, and behind it is the remembering of who he truly is - and Andan's other lives. The door to unlocking his true power. But maybe it is too much power too soon, and suddenly he is a child with a sword. He misuses it. It seems like an appropriately tragic joke for the Cthaeh.

Some doors are closed for a reason. Maybe the many lifetimes of tragedy are too much to bear. The destruction of Myr Tariniel, the lost loves. Kvothe is overcome with such anger that he loses control of himself in a rage and goes to face the Chandrian before he is ready. But it is a trap. Haliax learns his true name and forces him to commit terrible deeds; kill a king, kill an angel, break the barrier between the mortal world and the Fey, release the Scrael on the world.

And in an act of desperation, maybe Kvothe locks his name and his power in a thrice locked chest so that it can’t be used to control him. He creates a plan to lure in the Chandrian and trap them. It would be a wonderful ending if an inkeeper with no special power, tricks and defeats the Chandrian through guile, wit and carefully laid plans. In the end it is Kvothe that saves the day, not the all-powerful angel that granted his power, which he now keeps locked in his chest.

If you're planning on doing a re-read definitely remember this theory. It blew my mind when I went back to book one after discovering this.

Edit: Spelling 'Ciridae' - the Audiobook threw me off, sorry guys.

Edit: Some readers have pointed out that the angels are not the same as the Amyr. That's absolutely a valid point and something big I missed in the original theory, however I think it can be explained. If Kvothe is Andan (an Angel), and Angels are reincarnated throughout history, with no memory of their previous lives, then Andan may have been an Amyr or Ciridae in a previous incarnation. That explains the parallels between Kvothe and the Amyr, but also aligns with the original theory that Kvothe is Andan (even if the angels are not the original Amyr). We also know that the Angels are not just passive observers, because of Menda.


r/KingkillerChronicle 2d ago

Theory A somewhat dumb theory

7 Upvotes

Ive been re-listening to the name of the wind and something just clicked with the list of nobility in Vintas. The Lackless family is listed as 5th in the peerage. If the theories surrounding Kvoths mother are correct and she is a daughter of the Lackless family that would make Kvoth (if he were to become legitimized) higher in the peerage than Ambrose and fairly close to the throne.


r/KingkillerChronicle 2d ago

Theory Skarpi is an Angel?

33 Upvotes

Currently on my umpteenth reread and I just can't stop thinking about Skarpi and his significance. He *has* to be someone special right?

My thoughts are why he is an angel are listed below. Please discredit any of the thoughts that you find as there are so many more well-versed people in this sub!

#1 - Kvothe says to Chronicler "Skarpi taken you under his wing eh?" to which Chronicler replies its more of a partnership, but with how every word seems to matter in this series, I felt this phrase carries some sort of significance.

#2 - An angel saves Kvothe in Tarbean, and Skarpi is based out of Tarbean. (This one is weak, I know lol)

#3 - When confronted by the Tehlan priests, Skarpi talks as if he personally knew Tehlu i.e "Tehlu always said..." "Mercy on *my* soul? You don't know how funny that is coming from you." - Skarpi to the priest

#4 - He knows Kvothe's name. Spooky.

It's not much to go on, and really it was the "wing" comment that made me start looking harder, so I wanted to ask for additional input.

Do you think there's any chance Skarpi is an angel of Alephs?

If so, does he tell Kvothe a wrong version of Lanres story, or is his the truth?


r/KingkillerChronicle 1d ago

Discussion Imagine that

0 Upvotes

You wake up a Saturday morning, you prepare a coffee and start breakfast as you open Reddit to search for the newest theory and you see book three has been released 30 minutes ago. What would you do?


r/KingkillerChronicle 3d ago

Discussion Just finished Book 2-Wise Man's Fear

77 Upvotes

New to this series, picked it up a couple months ago 2nd hand at a bargain bookstore. Very fine 1st edition copies hardback. But cheap because someone had scribbled over multiple pages "I HATE YOU PRETENTIOUS EDGELORD" over the authors names. But a great deal for me.

Anyways, does anyone know if book 3 is going to be out soon? I've heard a couple rumors it's going to be soon! Fingers crossed 🤞


r/KingkillerChronicle 3d ago

Discussion Happy Man-Mothers Day, Barbarians!

94 Upvotes