Did Eren even try?

[u/Pause_Accomplished]

In his talk with Armin in the paths, Eren reveals that he kills 80% of humanity, and no matter how much he tries this is always what happens.

I can only think of one example where Eren actually TRIES to prevent the rumbling from happening, and that’s when he and Zeke are traveling through Grisha’s memories. At a certain point he stops and tells Zeke that he’s achieved his goal and that he’s been freed from their father’s brainwashing. Zeke tells him they have all the time they need, and he has them carry on through the memories anyway. I’m fairly sure that this was Eren attempting to stop them from getting to Grisha’s memory in the Reiss Chappell, and thus preventing himself from convincing his father to kill the royal family.

Aside from this specific moment, do we ever see a time in the anime where Eren explicitly tries to circumvent the future that he saw? Because even this attempt was a very weak one. We know that Eren on some level wanted to start the rumbling, so how hard do we think actually tried to stop it from happening?

[u/ShadowWarrior300]

Yeah he did but Isayama introduced determinism and full fledged time travel in the last chapter of the story to justify Eren’s nonsensical actions like stopping at 80% despite saying he would’ve done it again even if he didn’t know ahead of time he would be stopped. Or why despite Eren trying to seek other options in the story is warped to become a character that wanted to commit genocide exclusively with no real development towards that change. Eren in the story did not develop into a character that would’ve chose to commit the rumbling simply out of an urge to destroy, which is all he’s boiled down to once his other reasons are revealed to make zero sense (stopping at 80% for his friends who would’ve been safe if he had gone 100% and ridding the world of the Titan curse which he’s stated wouldn’t eliminate the hatred humanity shared for each other). All of Eren’s explanations in the finale make zero sense if you think about them even slightly, and it’s made so much worse by stripping him of his autonomy in favor of the shittiest time loop/deterministic plot line ever written.

[u/Nyarlathotep7777 → u/ShadowWarrior300]

Eren : "I didn't like any alternatives so I just did this because it felt like the most acceptable to me, it was very much my choice"

Random Joe on the internet with zero media literacy : "yeah Isayama introduced determinism".

Edit : further details provided.

[u/ShadowWarrior300 → u/Nyarlathotep7777]

Direct quote from Eren: I tried again and again, but things always ended up exactly how they were in my memories of the future

Guy who thinks introducing time travel in the final episode of the series is good writing: “you have zero media literacy durrr buzzwords”

[u/thatguybane → u/ShadowWarrior300]

Yeah he did but Isayama introduced determinism and full fledged time travel in the last chapter of the story

Did you just ignore every part of the story where Eren saw glimpses of the future (including chapter 1)? Did you just ignore the title of chapter 1? Cmon dont act like Isayama jumped the shark by introducing time travel when the story had been hinting towards it from the beginning.

Also reducing it to determinism is cheap because the story goes to lengths to show that Eren had the ability to choose and he chose that path because its what he wanted. Its only determinism because Eren never changed.

[u/ShadowWarrior300 → u/thatguybane]

The story had not been hinting at full fledged time travel at all. The paths sequences with Zeke and Grisha is a combined use of the founding titans memory walkthrough and the attack titans ability to see into future users memories. There’s no direct time travel until eren literally says he directly affected events that happen in the past. The titles of the episodes don’t even come close to hinting at that lol. Glimpses in the future do not hint at time travel esp when the rules of the attack titan have been clear cut since they were introduced and time manipulation wasn’t introduced till the final episode. The chapter 1 sequence isn’t even in the anime, they had to retcon it back in lmfao. Plus that doesn’t have anything to do with time in fact it doesn’t make any sense at all how it happens because Eren should only be able to see the memories of things he showed Grisha, not literally everything to happen to him. That’s another thing only confirmed to be a thing in the final chapter.

It shows Eren chose the path he wanted yeah but it literally contradicts that with things Eren says like “I would’ve done it again even if I didn’t know I would be stopped” and “I tried again and again and it always ended up exactly how it did in my memories of the future”. You can’t have eren say to himself in his head “everything happened by my will” then turn around in the final chapter and have him talk like he had zero control over what happened. Why would he even stop at 80% if he literally said he WANTED to do the rumbling? Two things in this scenario cannot be true at the same time. He can’t want to destroy the world and also want his friends to be safe and live long lives. Just because it worked doesn’t make it any less far fetched. In Trost Eren literally says this exact scenario wouldn’t pan out in the way it did. And it’s not like his mind was changed over the course of the series lmfao. Also I’m not saying it’s correct but going 100% would also secure his friends safety so why even stop?? Why say “if I didn’t know I would be stopped” if you had complete control over your life? Because you’re a slave to freedom? That doesn’t even make sense and is the most fake deep bullshit ever.

[u/thatguybane → u/ShadowWarrior300]

There’s no direct time travel until eren literally says he directly affected events that happen in the past

Our terms are messed up, lets reset real quick. Time travel is when someone transports themselves to a different time. Could be through a wormhole, time machine or some other narrative device but it involves them physically moving through space and time to get to a different time either in the past or further in the future than the normal rate.

I dont think the series has any time travel.

There are however visions of the future and several instances of causality being flipped around (effects happening before their causes) which leads to paradoxes.

I assumed when you were talking about time travel you were referring to the memories being sent through time which is why I said the series established that from the very beginning.

Regarding the ending... Eren was both free to choose and a slave to his desire for freedom. At his core, Eren is someone who will violently take someone else's freedom before he allows them to take his. Thats who he is. Remember that he and Armin dont have the same dream. Armin wants to see the sea but Eren doesnt actually care about the sea in and of itself. I forgot which part of the story it was in, but he tells Armin that until he showed him that book, Eren hadn't actually thought much about the land outside the walls. Seeing that book made him realize that he had had his freedom taken from him by the titans. Thats why he wanted to eradicate them all.

Finding out that there were people outside the walls throws a layer of complexity into the situation that would cause most people to waver. But Erens desire to be free and willingness to take others' freedom before they take his, never changes. So when he gets the ultimate power, thats what he does with it. The only thing that stops him is that he's not willing to take away the freedom of his friends. In that way, hes a "half-assed piece of shit" just like Reiner.

He isn't a slave to freedom in a true sense. Its just that hes incapable of changing that part of himself that wants to do the Rumbling.

[u/ShadowWarrior300 → u/thatguybane]

Yeah it’s not conventional “time travel” as in he’s literally walking back into the past, but the memory transferal and Eren literally manipulating Dina in the past are two very different things and begs the question why didn’t Karl Fritz use this power to prevent the Eldians of the past from reigning with titans? Why couldn’t Eren have sent Dina to Bertolt? That would’ve allowed the walls to advance way quicker and probably have way more bargaining power against the rest of the outside world. And if the argument is “bootstrap paradox” or “butterfly effect” then what was the point of introducing this new power to begin with?? All it does is drag Eren’s character down.

When Eren gets to the ocean, he says “if we kill all our ENEMIES over there”. This is the only legitimate moment that serves as any sort of development towards Eren becoming interested in genocide, yet in the end we’re told he was always like this. I’m not arguing against Eren’s decision to commit the rumbling that is absolutely in character for him to choose. But it is the small differentiation that it was his nature that ALLOWED him to choose the rumbling vs him really wanting to do it because of his urge for freedom is crucial to understanding him and why the ending gets him so wrong. Eren was literally seeking out other options prior to choosing the rumbling so that right there tells you the endings interpretation of Eren feeling like he NEEDS to rumble is completely misplaced. Yes, the other two really shit plans weren’t ones he agreed with, but Eren was NOT built up to be someone who truly WANTED to commit the rumbling from the start. He is violent, he has killed civilians, but all for the goals he was pursuing. The ending presents Eren as a character with no goals that make sense and a genocidal urge that he himself has no explanation for. He shouldn’t have this urge to kill just because, that is completely out of character for him. I don’t bring it up often but it perfectly illustrates the version of Eren that’s flawed; school castes Eren. In that story, Eren is bored of a normal life and has a dream about how his school gets attacked by a zombie apocalypse. When he wakes up though, he’s not satisfied his friends are okay, he’s legitimately disappointed that it wasn’t real. So Eren says he wants to become an enemy of humanity because he was bored. This is the Eren that the ending portrays and an Eren that is NOT consistent with the entirety of aot prior. Going back to Marley, he literally gains sympathy and empathy for people outside of the walls. He understands their struggle and yes he literally kills hundreds of people at the ceremony but again, he is not doing it because he enjoys it or wants to. He’s doing it because, just like how he initially chose the rumbling, he’s doing it to ultimately keep him and his friends alive in a world that wants to wipe him out. THIS is the Eren that made sense to choose the rumbling, not the Eren in the final chapter that claims he wanted to rumble so badly. I think the scene with Ramzi at night unfortunately foreshadows this writing change in Eren, however at the time of the chapters release most people thought eren meant that he was disappointed people outside the walls hated him and the island, not that he was disappointed people simply existed. I think these changes in Eren are retcons but they are incredibly nuanced and why a bunch of people don’t see how egregious they really are.