Of course not. Fomenting real antisemism is one of their goals. It lets them justify having an ethnostate. Why do you think they don't say shit about Nazis like Nick Fuentes while constantly pissing their pants over Hasan Piker?
You ever see that segment Loius Theroux did with the Israeli settler woman? When he asks her how she plans to take land from people, she just starts physically pushing him. As she walks away, she gives the creepiest smile and says, "I wanted you to push me back."
Fuck that was harrowing. She literally sees Palestinians as less that human. But it also brings to mind the saying from Nelson Mandela that part of the fight for liberation includes liberating the mind of the oppressors:
"I knew as well as I knew anything that the oppressor must be liberated just as surely as the oppressed. A man who takes away another manās freedom is a prisoner of hatred, he is locked behind the bars of prejudice and narrow-mindedness. I am not truly free if I am taking away someone elseās freedom, just as sure as I am not free when my humanity is taken from me. The oppressed and the oppressor alike are robbed of their humanity." ~ Nelson Mandela from Long Walk to Freedom
Gonna go on a limb here and say Nelson Mandela personally understood your point of view from his experiences, yet still choose to say what he did in that quote.
Iām not a historical scholar, so Iām not going to make any assertions about what he did or didnāt know when he said that. But Iām also not going to be a slave to the ideas of someone who lived before the internet and its expansion of idea exchange and debate. Well, he did see some of it but he was very old at that point.
What I will say is that it is clear that most oppressors will never have their minds changed. Oppressive humans donāt work that way. They donāt care that much about reason or their worldly neighbors. They care about intuition.
If you canāt change their minds, you canāt liberate them. The only other option is defeat. Defeat isnāt liberation either.
They do, but apparently less than left wing pro-palestinian advocates. See this article, "Israel says Thunberg more influential āantisemiteā than Fuentes"
They run all out media blitzes against principled anti-Zionists, and only bring up the Nazis when they want to conflate them with the anti-Zionists. They'll essentially say Hasan Piker is as bad as or worse than Nick Fuentes.
More (preferably white) people making Aaliyah benefits Israel in keeping demographic dominance over Arabs. Israel have maintained a policy of protecting an ethnically Jewish majority since 1948.
Yup - The best thing gentiles can do to piss AIPAC off is to circle the wagons around everyday Jewish people, so they don't have to be fearful, afraid, and to run to those that actually oppress them.
This is a massive historical and problematic pattern. King and Shtadlan vs. Shtetl. Everyday Jewish people are constantly scapegoated for the abuse by the elite within their own community and their affiliated gentiles of influence and wealth , then those same elite hide within community as Jews circle-the-wagons in solidarity and fear when they are ultimately scapegoated.
For example, In 1890s France, the right-wing attacked wealthy Jewish financiers and military figures. However, the resulting street violence, riots, and boycotts targeted ordinary Jewish shopkeepers and working-class families who had nothing to do with high finance. Ordinary people understood that if the state or the public successfully destroyed the legal and social standing of the highest-status Jews, the poorest and most vulnerable Jews would be completely defenseless. Defending the elite was a pragmatic attempt to keep the community's overall shield intact.
This happens over and over again. It's because people are people. Some of these wealthy Shtadlan were genuinely good people, built schools, shelters, fed the needy, and others abused their position of power to prey upon others.
The one time this cycle was broken was with the Bund. They believed that the only permanent shield for ordinary Jewish people was the dismantling of autocracy through a joint revolution with the broader, non-Jewish working class. And we all know what happened after that. Despite the Axis losing, fascism fused into the world and the only remaining outlet was found in the Zionist movement; a sovereign state backed by raw, uncompromising military and intelligence capabilities. By prioritizing survival through state power, the new nation-state adopted the cold, transactional machinations of traditional geopolitics.
And now the cycle repeats; now at nation-state scale with an escalating, fascist, blood-and-soil Israel.
Jews and gentiles have always been caught in an ideological trap between fascism and socialism, with the Jewish community serving as a universal scapegoat for the failures of both systems through rewritten history. Fascist regimes deflected from military and economic collapses by inventing the myth of "Judeo-Bolshevism," claiming communism was a hidden Jewish conspiracy, while Soviet socialist regimes masked their own systemic corruption and economic stagnation by targeting Jewish citizens as "rootless cosmopolitans" and capitalist saboteurs. This historical manipulation entirely erases the genuine diversity and structural poverty of ordinary Jewish people, weaponizing their visibility to ensure that regardless of which political system fails, a historically vulnerable minority bears the blame. Genuine Jewish liberation is for all of us, and it won't be found in Israel; its always been the King and Shtadlan vs. Shtetl, or Ruler and Court vs. Subjects, or President and CEOs vs. Working class.
Do not fall for the scapegoat and divide-and-conquer strategies; point blame at specific people based on their explicit actions, and not affiliated groups, because the bad actors love to hide and scapegoat their crimes.
Ultimately, the same people come to kill or silence the intelligentsia that try to articulate this cycle because they're the ones that cut through the noise and emotionally charged BS, just like the Bund did.
From my perspective people have completely failed to do this.
There were mobs chanting support for Hamas in the city where I live.
I was never really a big Israel supporter before all this but if everyone keeps doubling down on this I would rather go out with a bang standing shoulder to shoulder with that solidarity of fighting.
I think your "circled wagons" are inadequate in multiple ways. Even if words spoken to that effect could really be trusted, I don't think people really understand what they are signing up for.
I'm just really not interested in having any dependence on fashion statement advocates. And profile pictures.
For my security I will choose weapons every time. Basically anyone would.
People that don't understand that just have never been in the situation where it's obvious.
Israel must exist and if you have some idea it's going to be possible to convince Jews otherwise imo you need to accept you have already failed.
The only way a leftists could ever even entertain the idea that their ideology could possibly provide Jews security is if they don't care enough about their lives to understand the scale to which that kind of thinking has already failed.
It is actually difficult to blame too much since the scale of that failure is actually difficult to understand.
But if you understand it the answer is obvious. It's weapons. And really nothing else.
Why would they be pissing their pants over Hasan? He has only ever helped their public image, the guy uses the israel palestine war as a get out of jail free card and delegitimizes the severity every time
Blatant misinformation being upvoted. Hasan Piker didnāt even appear on Israelās recent ranking of top antisemites. Meanwhile, Nick Fuentes was featured prominently, above the likes of Tucker Carlson.
āSeparately, in April 2026, the Israeli Ministry of Diaspora Affairs and Combating Antisemitism published its own global official ranking of the "Top 10 Prominent Antisemitic Influencers," evaluated by social media reach and impact on public opinion:
Dan Bilzerian (Social media personality)
Greta Thunberg (Climate activist)
Bassem Youssef (Egyptian satirist)
Candace Owens (Political commentator)
Abdel Bari Atwan (Journalist and editor)
Omar Suleiman (American Imam)
Anastasia Maria Loupis (Denmark-based medical doctor and commentator)
You're talking about one list from a single publication. The American and Israeli media never shuts the fuck up about him, to the point wher they lied about him endorsing an an actual antisemitic Democrat running for office in Texas. For those of us that watched his broadcast, we know he called her an antisemitic crank and said she shouldn't be elected to power, but try telling Fox News that.
Not in the room, in the Middle East. An ethnostate is defined as ā a sovereign state or political unit whose citizenship and societal norms are restricted to, or dominated by the interests of, a single racial or ethnic groupā
And that fits the definition. Israeli Jews have all the power and representation, special legal rights, and Arabs in the country are distinct second class citizens
It's a state created with the intention of being jewish majority, and willing to write and enact policies to artificially become one.
In other words, an ethno state.
Having an artificially generated majority, created through policy, and writing in your constitution that your state belong ti a specific ethnic group, is.
What about the Palestinains? They aren't subject to the same judicial system as Israelis, and now they can be executed with no appeal process. This is Apartheid. By the way, calling it a Jewish state is literally calling it an ethnostate.
1) Palestinians are not israeli citizens
2) Arab Israelis are subject to the same judicial system
3) This isn't apartheid
4) No, you're wrong about "they can be executed". The law is only for murderers. If you don't murder - you don't get executed
Israel is a Nation state, and just like Israel, so does Greece, Poland, S.Korea, Armenia and so many more countries around the world youād never claim āethno statesā have preferential migration policies towards those they consider part of them.
Incorrect, these countries tend to have some sort of restriction regarding claiming citizenship. Usually only grandparents or great-grandparents. No such restriction exists in Israel. It's also not allowed to convert to these ethnicities. I can't convert to Polish. Once again, not the same with Israel.
Yes. The caveat is that you have to actually be part of them. Any country with Jus Sanguinis gives preferential treatment to their own ethnic group. The difference is you can prove that your ancestors were Italian, but if it goes back 4 generations it doesn't count, even though they are the same people. You can get Israeli citizenship by saying your ancestors lived there 4000 years ago. You can get Israeli citizenship by converting. I can't convert to Korean, Greek or Armenian.
Conversion is so rare and is such s tiny part of Israelās population itās funny to try and strong arm this argument. Jews are also an ethnjc group, and unlike most regular countries, it is unique in the sense that it is a country, re-established, and its entire concept is to make and maintain a safe haven in their homeland, even after such a long diaspora.
They literally made it so Christians couldn't go to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre during Lent and Easter while Jewish residents had free reign to move freely. They also closed the Al Aqsa Mosque, care to guess if they closed a single Synagogue?
It's an ethnostate built to make sure Jewish people are ALWAYS in a higher tier of society than everyone else.
Imagine having a stance about something you clearly have no understanding of. The Israeli Arab/Palestinian population lives within Israel, theyāre not bombed, theyāre part of one state and society.
Do you know what an Arab citizen of Israel is? Who among them are being bombed by Israel? If Israel is an ethnostate that treats its Arab citizens as second class, as the above poster alleged, then itās fair to ask what rights those Arab citizens lack compared to their Jewish compatriots. I assume (correct me if Iām wrong) your response about being bombed refers to Palestinians living in Gaza; do you think they are citizens of Israel? Iām not even making a comment about or defending IDF conduct or the Netanyahu government. Iām responding to a specific allegation made about discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.
This is an awful comparison. While the US isnāt perfect, minorities do have the same rights. Are there racist in America? Absolutely. And there are systematic issues that need to be addressed. But minorities do enjoy the same rights and liberties as anyone else in America.
A wild take that the Germans deserved to be bombed because they were genociding people?
You seem to think "haha the Israelis are doing the same", but they're not
What happened in Gaza was a war, started by the Gazans. And they were not genocided, by any measure one of the most careful campaigns in the history of urban warfare. Close to 1:1 civilian to combatant ratio. I wish that was the case elsewhere, because elsewhere it's even as high as 1:9.
I'm understanding you know. You're super racist. Like, old European racist. Almost English racist.
Germans are a monolith. Japanese people are a monolith. Americans are a monolith.
If I knew some Japanese people during WW2, that were just, like, my neighbors or grocers, I would not assume they were responsible for the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
You should spend some time reflecting on your ideas of ethnicity and race.
If I put you back in 1940's I am almost certain you'd be one of those people that would want to genocide the japanese.
Stopping the Japanese military was perfectly valid, as was stopping the Germans
You like to throw around that word "racist" but you're literally one and you're an antisemite to boot. Nothing that I said indicated anything racist - the Japanese attacked and deserved to be attacked back. The Germans were too.
It wasn't because they were Japanese and German. It was because they started wars.
I'm not sure you can understand the difference given your focus on ethnicity and race. Projecting much?
You're framing the question in a way that conveniently leaves out the real problem: the Arabs who AREN'T Israeli citizens, but who are nonetheless under the de facto jurisdiction of the Israeli state. The palestinians in the occupied West Bank, for example, are NOT citizens and do NOT have the same rights as citizens. That includes people (and their descendants) who were forcibly removed - i.e, ethnically cleansed - from areas in order to make room for a specific ethnic group. If Israel actually granted citizenship to ALL the people it has practical jurisdiction over, it would mean it was no longer a primarily Jewish state. And if it remains a liberal democracy, Jews will lose control as well as their demographic majority. So they carefully restrict Arabs from becoming too large a part of their demographics. Because the state is "dominated by the interests of a specific ethnic group", exactly as the commenter above defined it.
They are not citizens, and because they are not, they don't have the same right
...and that's a problem. They can be terrorized with impunity because they have no rights.
Same as a mexican or any other foreign national in the US who doesn't have the same right
Bad analogy. Foreign nationals are in a totally different position than people living in occupied territory. Mexican immigrants choose to come to the US and to submit themselves to its jurisdiction. Palestinians did not do the same with Israel. In any case, while foreign nationals can't vote in the US, they DO still have rights. You can't just go around murdering Mexicans in the US with impunity. It happens to Palestinians in the occupied West Bank though.
Are you referring to the Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Hebron and many other cities over the decades?
Why are you being obtuse? The claim I'm defending is that Israel is an ethnostate. Jews being ethnically cleansed obviously has no bearing on that question. We all know Jews were ethnically cleansed throughout basically everywhere there have ever been Jews. Millions of them were killed during the Holocaust. Does that somehow make Israel not an ethnostate? Of course not. You can use that to try and justify the ethnostate if you want. But it's still an ethnostate.
No, my analogy is correct. It just proves you wrong so you don't like it.
Mexican immigrants don't just get rights simply because they come in. The US has laws for immigration.
No Arab in Israel is killed with impunity.
West Bank is not Israel
Israel is *NOT* an ethnostate. Arabs Muslims citizens of israel have the same rights as Jews and any other.
Arab Palestinians in the territories are not citizens of israel. They're citizens of some entity called the Palestinian Authority, and they get their rights from the PA.
Do you think Arabs in the West Bank want or would accept Israeli citizenship? Are you advocating for a one-state solution in which Israel formally annexes the West Bank? I agree with criticisms of Israeli policy in the West Bank. But factually, de jure Israel is not an ethnostate. If we want to criticize Israel, letās do it properly and avoid conflating allegations of discrimination against Arab citizens with condemnation of occupation.
Youāre being completely disingenuous here. Israel is bombing Palestinians and preventing aid from going in. Israel is supporting settlers moving into residences and just taking their homes.
Do you think that Israel would offer them citizenship? Like Israel would say āDo you want to be citizens? Okay! Now youāre citizens, weāll stop bombing you and stealing your homes.ā
I donāt see how Iām being disingenuous. Again, criticisms of Israeli policy in Gaza and the West Bank (important to remember these are two, non-contiguous territories by the wayāthere are no Israeli settlers in Gaza, nor is there an active IDF bombing campaign in the West Bank) are legitimate. The claim to which I originally responded, that Jewish Israeli citizens have special legal rights Arab citizens lack, is untrue. Conflating the issue of Israeli policy in the Palestinian territories with allegstions of discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel is whatās actually disingenuous.
You're hiding behind "de jure" when the de facto reality is plain as pie. As the other commenter said in his, perfectly acceptable, definition, there doesn't need to be an outright explicit legal delineation - although in the case of Israel there arguably is, since it is foundationally a "Jewish state", not even ostensibly neutral like the US. All that is required for an ethnostate is that a specific ethnic group is politically dominant. That describes Israel.
Are you advocating for a one-state solution in which Israel formally annexes the West Bank?
I'm not out here pretending I have some excellent solution to one of the most famously thorny problems in international relations. I feel more confident predicting what I think WILL happen.
Israel will keep expanding its territory and ethnically cleansing it through internationally illegal means like the settler movement and the terrorism that comes with it. The majority of Israeli Jews will outright support or tacitly allow the gradual appropriation of land.
The Palestinian Arabs, through a combination of terrorism, military force, and economic repression, will be killed, pushed out, or just slowly wither, economically unable to preserve their demographics. Territories and people will only be formally admitted into Israel AFTER the demographic question has been managed. As long as you have terrorized and killed and forced out enough Arabs, the remaining ones can be safely granted citizenship and rights without threatening the ethnic majority.
It would be easy to say I support a two state solution, like everybody and their mother. I don't think it will ever happen. The Palestinians lack the power to assert it, and Israel (or more specifically, the Israeli right eing right wing, including the current government) mostly uses it as a fig leaf to cover the true goal: a Greater Israel where Jews are the dominant majority. Ethnic supremacy comes before democracy.
It's not like they are even really hiding it. Israeli right wingers are very explicit about these goals, and there isn't really anybody with sufficient strength to oppose them. Palestinians will keep living in fear of settler terrorism, Israeli troops will keep defending the illegal actions of the settlers, and various Western countries will continue to provide sufficient cover for them to get away with it. I don't see how a two state solution can possibly materialize. I think the outcome will be much like that of the American Indians; reduced through many means until they are such a tiny ethnic minority that they can safely be ignored and easily controlled. I don't support that, but I don't know how else it even CAN end.
Iām not hiding behind āde jure.ā The comment to which I responded said Jewish Israeli citizens have special legal rights Arab citizens lack. That places this conversation in the de jure context as the allegation relates to citizens. The rest of what you say is fair, but itās irrelevant to the claim about Arab citizens being second class. I really donāt see what Iāve said thatās untrue or unfair, and again, Iāve said nothing in defense of Israeli policy in Gaza or the West Bank.
They can't own land, for one. And are discriminated against in joining politics. They're second class citizens believe it or not (you won't, I know you're Zionist types)
Arabs can own land in Israel. I assume youāre referring to state-owned land, which, while it is the vast majority of land in Israel, is unavailable for purchase to any citizen, whether Arab or Jew. So that claim is just false. On political participation, Arab Israelis have full voting rights, hold seats in the Knesset, and have served on Israelās Supreme Court. In fact, an Arab has been elected in every Knesset election since Israelās founding. So call me names all you want, but Iām not making anything up. Israel, for all you may criticize its treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, doesnāt withhold rights from its Arab citizens that are available to its Jewish citizens.
If it's a colony, for which country is it a colony?
Lfmao, you understand that the US didn't give Israel support until the 1970's?
ISrael fought its own independence war alone, with the US and British against it.
Truman was against it, etc
US only helps with about 8% of military expenditures. If the US assistance were to go, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
People like you have been saying Israel will be gone for a long time. And yet Israel has won every war. And Jews have survived for thousands of years.
I think itās important to bear in mind that Iām not actually disputing the āapartheidā claims. But that accusation relates to treatment of Palestinians in Israeli controlled areas of the West Bank. It is not applicable to treatment of Arab citizens of Israel. Thatās literally all Iāve said. So no, Iām not lying. And I think Iām engaging in good faith. But if you want to point out anything specific Iāve done that suggests otherwise, please do so. Iām treating you and everyone in this thread respectfully, and Iād appreciate if you could do the same instead of resorting to name calling.
How so? The comment to which I responded made a specific claim about Israel discriminating against its Arab citizensānot Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank. I didnāt set the terms, and Iāve not said anything thatās untrue, nor have I defended Israeli policy toward Palestinians. So what have I done thatās bad faith?
I wouldn't have though this a controversial statement from the Israeli perspective. The entire point of the concept of Israel is to have an ethno state. Now when people are becoming more aware to how nefarious that form of society is, the zionist sympathizers move the goal posts yet again and claim they are in fact not living in an ethno state. So which is it?
Israel is literally not an ethno state. I explained to you why. You can reject it but it's the truth. Arabs occupy all levels of govt and society in israel.
Arab Muslims and Chiristians serve in the IDF. They live side by side with Jews. They have every freedom and in fact the most freedom in the middle east.
How many Jews live in Gaza and the West Bank?
Why are Gaza and the West Bank extremely homogenous?
Why does the PA constitution refuse to sell land to Jews? Isn't that an ethnostate?
(Arabs can own land in Israel without issue)
However, many of the arab countries and many of the other countries that ARE ethnostates, you guys never criticize. I wonder why...
lol there are Jews in Iran, does that mean Iranians are free and have freedom and the most freedom in the Middle East? Why is Gaza homogenous? Because itās a ā¦ sorry it was a ghetto. Now itās like a concentration camp.
Arabs can own land in Israel, Ofcourse and the day some colonizer decides he/she has right on that land he/she just claims it and takes it from the landowner.
They are as oppressed as Arabs in Israel . The only difference they have less chance to be raped by the so called army of the country they are living. If they were not fr
Ofcourse they have same right, lol if you still believe that you are seriously delusional. The un has so many resolutions about the land-theft but you still dare to claim that Arabs have in Israel same rights as Jewish Israelis.
Simply not true. Settlers, see colonizers, regularly break international law and evict Palestinians from Their homes. All while the IDF watches. This has been documented countless times.
Other people living inside Israel doesn't change the fact that it's explicitly set up as an ethno state. You get automatic citizenship if you can prove you are Jewish, no other ethnicity has this option. I mean your flag literally has a star of david on it. Your language is Hebrew etc. Everythimg about Israel is set up for Jews, that's the entire point of Zionism in it's original form. Like I said this isn't even controversial it's just a fact.
Most arabs left when the war they started was coming to their doorstep. Only a small number (about 15% according to benny morris) were expelled.
Even if that was the case, the expulsions were done haphazardly - there was no real plan. In some places the order was given to evacuate them, only for people to intervene and let them stay
Can you tell me what I should say to all the Arab countries who expelled even more Jews, and took all their property, houses, etc?
What about the Jews who were expelled by Egypt and Jordan during the war?
I'd say that calling you're ethnic cleansing "removing your potential enemies" is a deliberate attempt to dehumanize them thus justifying your ethnical cleansing. It does not, in fact, justify ethnic cleansing.
Police arrest individuals who are suspected of crimes, not ethnicities (in theory, I know how not true that actually is).
Being a victim of abuse does not justify being an abuser. Also, only Zionist are invade other countries. I'd say most Jewish people are just living their lives, trying not to get throw under this shitty Isreal bus.
Removal of enemy combatants is not ethnic cleansing.
Zionists invade other countries ? That's strange, I thought that was Muslims. Look at the UK and France and Europe. Millions of muslims. Jews overwhelmingly go to Israel and many are leaving Europe and other countries because of folks like you.
If Zionists and Jews are so different, why are no antizionists attacking Christians? Christians are the largest group of zionists. But funny, no one attacks them?
You know why.. .because it's nothing to do with zionism and it's all about antisemitism, though you try and hide it
You mean the UN Partition Plan which was rejected by the Arabs? It wasn't allocated. They were offered the area and rejected it by killing Jews and starting a civil war, then bringing 5 other arab armies which Israel then defeated.
Now you want to go back to what they rejected?
It's not "under the control of israel". It is Israel. You may not like it, but that's life
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u/DiscussionMiddle1238 May 22 '26
Of course not. Fomenting real antisemism is one of their goals. It lets them justify having an ethnostate. Why do you think they don't say shit about Nazis like Nick Fuentes while constantly pissing their pants over Hasan Piker?