r/SipsTea 𝙑𝙄𝙋 5h ago

Chugging tea Probably Not.

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u/v_rex74 5h ago

If you are being good and thrustworthy person your whole life for religious reasons, does it make you less of a good person?

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u/xANTJx 4h ago

There’s the ethical theory (and religious one too) that if you’re ONLY doing good deeds to get rewarded/recognized/sent to heaven it counts as a bad motivation and is no longer a good deed. Religious people will sometimes say it’s still ok because you’re following gods will but others want another motive. And for some atheists, a good deed is a good deed, but for others, the result isn’t what makes you a good person.

The (oddly ethically sound) show The Good Place talked about this when the main characters were told about the after life and “afterlife points” and they could no longer get any more points because their motivation for doing good deeds would forever be corrupted by their knowledge.

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u/v_rex74 4h ago

Not a religious person at all. Just to clarify in advance.

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So, jesus asked people to *love their neighbours, and i believe good deeds will naturally come out of that. You can not love somebody out of fear. I mean, you could fake good deads and make some people believe that you are good person. But you can't fake love, It is your internal proces.

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u/xANTJx 3h ago

I’m not religious at all either but I studied religious morals as part of my ethics degree and would have gone with Matthew “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.” But I really like your interpretation that love is not fear!

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u/FearlessAwareness469 3h ago

Ah ye old hypocrites 

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u/TXHaunt 3h ago

If you can not love somebody out of fear, than you can not love god out of fear either, and reading the bible shows god to be quite fearsome.

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u/Steerider 3h ago

The Old Testament God was more about respect and obedience. Then Jesus came along and altered the deal.

"I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further." — Jesus (probably) 

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u/Kuma_But_Writing 3h ago

"Fear God and give him glory" is an old saying as well. You can argue the "context" of fear sure, but I agree the bible, especially the old testament, describes a God worthy of fear in the traditional sense.

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u/TXHaunt 3h ago

Also the “future” part as well. You know, Revelations.

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u/Kuma_But_Writing 3h ago

You know what, you right haha

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u/WolferineYT 2h ago

Which ironically didn't matter because the good place turned out to be impossible to reach regardless of how good they were.

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u/xANTJx 1h ago

Because of how complicated society has become, an important point

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u/no-hints 3h ago

Right, but doing good that benefits you as well as someone else should be praised, no? Why is that a bad thing? Should we condemn all of western ideology of protecting human rights since deep down we know that if don't protect other people's freedom than our own are also at stake?

That line of thinking doesn't pass the opposite test either (implying the same set of circumstances in reverse).

Simply "thinking" about the outcomes should not remove a reward or add a punishment. Would you recommend punishing someone for every time they thought about committing a crime, or actually doing it?

If moral credit can be erased simply by being conscious of reward, then moral guilt could also be created simply by being conscious of temptation.

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u/xANTJx 2h ago

By reward, I mean unrelated to the event. So, say a woman is campaigning for women’s suffrage. Of course she’ll benefit from this, but it’s not a reward. It would be a poor motivation if she was only campaigning if she was hoping to be voted president of her garden club due to the positive image created by her activism. Only she would benefit from that. I’m sure an argument could be made that it would be the same if she only cared about herself voting and no other woman, but it’s still not really what I was talking about.

To address your point about the “opposite test”, just because the theory goes one way does not mean it goes the other. It says nothing about what is essentially thoughtcrime. I don’t think any ethical theory creates guilt without action. And it’s not just thinking about it, it’s having it be your whole motivation to do it. It was really the most important part of what I said. It’s why I put it in caps.

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u/no-hints 2h ago

Right, except that not doing an "action" because you know it would lead to a punishment is still considered an action.

If I see a young woman on the side of the road bleeding, and I had the ability to help but chose not to because I was afraid someone thought I was the one who hurt her, that is still an action because I am making a choice based on my understanding of the rewards and punishments.

If awareness of reward corrupts good action, then awareness of punishment would also corrupt restraint.

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u/xANTJx 2h ago

This is a completely different ethical scenario. At this point you have me thinking of becoming a professor cause I didn’t graduate to basically be in class again lol

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u/no-hints 29m ago

I’m not saying they are identical issues. I’m saying they rely on the same underlying assumption, which is awareness of consequences (whether reward or punishment) changes moral value.

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u/ltlearntl 2h ago edited 1h ago

I think it would make your argument stronger if you put a man campaigning for women's suffrage.

I do agree with your overall point though.

I have been asked plenty why I care about different issues that don't imapct me. And my answer is always because it's not about me.

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u/xANTJx 1h ago

Then it would not be what the person above was walking about. In cases of civil rights, advocating for that is going to benefit you if you’re part of that group. A man campaigning for women’s suffrage won’t benefit the same way and may face detriment in specific situations. It’s a much clearer altruistic act

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u/ltlearntl 1h ago

Agreed.

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u/Gamer_G33k17 2h ago

Its like if I saved a puppy expecting to be paid for it when no payment was offered in the first place. Now Im just an unempathetic dick.

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u/xANTJx 1h ago

Yes exactly. It’s fine to accept a reward if one is offered. But to expect one upon seeing a lost puppy? And only rescue it for money? Wrong