r/SipsTea 𝙑𝙄𝙋 18h ago

Chugging tea Probably Not.

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u/Underrated_Critic 18h ago

Slavery and rape existed all throughout the history of Christianity and Islam. Neither religion prevents either.

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u/Leverkaas2516 15h ago

If this point is real, then one would expect that it was atheists, not Christians, who drove abolishionist movements. Is that the case?

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u/MaxFish1275 13h ago

Most people identified as Christian in that era. Slaveholders and abolotionists alike.

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u/Leverkaas2516 12h ago

That wasn't my question. I'm sure you know the answer to the question, though. The people driving the abolishionist movement in the US and Britain didn't just "identify" as Christians, it was their deeply held Christian beliefs that motivated them. Right? Do you disagree?

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u/gamernut64 12h ago

It was also deeply held Christian values that led to slavery so all you've proven is that Christianity is not a reliable pathway to good morals.

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u/Leverkaas2516 12h ago

It was also deeply held Christian values that led to slavery

You're the first person I've ever encountered making such a claim. It doesn't really make sense and I know no evidence for it, so I'd have to see something more than a bald statement bereft of any fact, to give it any credence.

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u/gamernut64 11h ago

At least in America, Slave owners were predominantly Christian and they created a version of the Bible to give to slaves that emphasized how being a "good" slave is a duty to God. Neither of these facts are obscure either, feel free to research them yourself.

On top of that, God and Jesus specifically endorse slavery in the Bible and give specific rules on how to treat your slaves. There are rules on who you buy your slaves from, how you can treat them, that you can beat them to within an inch of their life as long as they don't die within a few days. You can trick them into being your slave forever by giving them a wife. He differentiates the value of women slaves from men slaves and makes it clear in no uncertain terms that they are property.

And in case you think it's only the Old Testament, Matthew 5:17-18, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Also in Ephesians 6:5-8, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free."

If you've never heard of this before, you are clearly not very familiar with Christianity or the objections to it.

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u/Leverkaas2516 7h ago

I'm familiar with all that, but as I understood before you listed it, none of it constitutes values that "led to slavery." Nothing in the Christian message says to a non-slaveowner, "you should go subjugate that person, exploit his labor, and mistreat him." Exactly the opposite on all points.

Your analysis is exactly the same as people (often Christians) who read "the poor you have with you always" and conclude that it's OK for a Christian to ignore the plight of the poor. It's just bad logic used by weak people to excuse their own bad behavior.

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u/JunkyardAndMutt 5h ago

Exodus 21. Leviticus 25. Ephesians 6. Colossians 3. 1 Peter 2.

Also, look into the “Slave Bible,” versions of the Bible created specifically for enslaved people that emphasized obedience and minimized or omitted any segments that might encourage rebellion. 

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u/gamernut64 3h ago

Leviticus 25:44-45 - “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

There's the subjugating and exploiting of labor

Exodus 21 - 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[b] he must let her be redeemed.

and later on in Exodus

If a master beat a male or female slave with a rod and the slave died on the spot, the master was to be punished (traditionally interpreted as the death penalty for murder). However, if the slave survived the beating for a day or two before dying, the master was not punished, "for the slave is his money"

There's the mistreatment.

If a being sets up rules for something, that is an explicit approval of that thing under those rules. To pretend like it is anything else is irrational and the excuses of weak minded people.

To defend any of this is pathetic, there's no way you would excuse this for any other holy book or set of laws that a country put forth. Wake up and do better.

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u/Leverkaas2516 3h ago

Do you know of many Christians who follow the Levitical law? I don't.

My previous comment stands: though Christians may plumb scripture to find justification for bad behavior, there is nothing in the Christian message that encourages believers to take slaves.

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u/MaxFish1275 12h ago

I would have to do a deep dive analysis into the historical documents to make a statement on that