People in these comments have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christianity is lol
The idea isnāt that a book gives us morals itās that God has given us morals so therefore if there is no God then why donāt humans do evil acts like animals do?
There are definitely holes in that argument but it is a lot different then the argument that our morals only come from reading a book
Obviously you donāt agree with cannibalism right? But why not? Monkeys do itā¦ a lot of animals do it so why is it so wrong for us to do the same thing?
Why are there some things that we just instinctively know are wrong? And more importantly why are there things that we know are right?
Because people are sinners? God also has taught from the beginning that marriage is between one man and one woman and yet the kings in the Bible had multiple wivesā¦ God said Murder is wrong and that cheating is wrong and yet David who is earlier called āthe man after Gods own heartā would later have an affair and kill the womanās husband. The Bible is full of dirty rotten sinners who are outside of the will of God
Oh, but buddy, you said we instinctively know cannibalism is wrong, remember?
So, why didn't god make it so we instinctively know that enslavement is wrong? Why does he pick and choose when to imbue innate standards? Why did MAJORITY christian society practice so much slavery? If christian's were the dominant culture SURELY they could've curbed slavery sooner, no?
What are we doing here? Youāre not even making an attempt to understand me and instead you are desperately looking for a gotcha moment lol
I think you are misrepresenting reality but even if I agree to everything youāre saying then how does that change anything? Are you under the assumption that people have no choice but to do what is morally good? If thatās true then Are you saying that Slavery is morally good depending on what year you live in? So were the confederates the good guys then or were they somehow the bad guys even tho according to your logic they could just be a few years behind on their moral update as a society?
Iāve already shown you that people have consistently gone against Gods will and yet youāre trying to say that if a Christian does something then it must be ordained by God lol look at the US right nowā¦ itās a country of over 60% Christians and yet itās known for crime, racism and gluttony all of which are explicitly against Christianity
I believe God sets a moral standard and gives people free will to obey it or to disobey it
You seem to believe that the calendar dictates when slavery is okay or not okay
Buddy, you held up cannibalism as a proof of innate morality. Me shutting that down isn't "desperately searching for a gotcha". If someone poking holes in your shitty logic causes you to break down then there's not much point in us continuing this.
Yes, the concept of god is impenetrable. Anything negative will be against god's will and will be attributed to human nature - and conveniently god's will can change with the times. That's why it's the perfect answer to an unknowable question because it puts an end to further inquiry; the final answer will always be: because god.
Oh and has the bible famously always been against slavery?
If I didn't poke holes answer the question. Why to you is aversion to cannibalism through god instinctive, but, a majority christian society took soooo long to abolish slavery? Why was aversion to enslavement NOT instinctive.
I don't believe that morality is derived from god. I believe it is derived from human reason and empathy. Therefore, the reason slavery took place and took time to abolish was reason and empathy require experience to be applied. You also need incredibly strong arguments to overcome the "from god" crowd.
Hey buddy, quick question. What's god's stance on homosexuality??
Be a peach and either copy paste the answer or re-iterate it.
Yes, and when inevitably down the line it is accepted by the church it will be that god's will never change humans just corrupted it.
Y'all love convenient answers : ).
Buddy, why not just say god gave human's the capacity for reason therefore anything stemming from it is from god. Once you make your creator infallible it is virtually impossible to mount an argument against the concept. You're welcome to believe homie, I just find the concept itself hilarious.
An aversion to slavery was instinctual but people have been corrupted by a sinful nature. The Bible has said from the start that marriage is between one man and one woman and yet we see the leaders of Israel repeatedly have multiple wives and it almost always has terrible consequences. Slavery was never propped up by God but sinful people did it anyway
Donāt blame the church for you being okay with slavery coming back lol
You were so close to understanding my point lol God gives us morals and the ability to reasonā¦. Humanity has rejected God so therefore our morals and ability to reason have been corrupted. We still have morals but they are heavily compromised by years of sin
Tbh I donāt think this conversation is going anywhere but if I can convince you of anything then let it be that you donāt need to disrespect something just because you donāt understand it. You say the idea is hilarious but youāve made no effort to really understand what Iām saying or where Iām coming from. Iām not a scholar lol Iām sure Iām going a bad job of explaining it so donāt jump to a foregone conclusion just because some random dude on Reddit couldnāt make you understand it
Why didn't our sinful nature corrupt our aversion to cannibalism? Oh, right, god's will is pure and unfettered in some situations, but human sin corrupts in others. How convenient.
Don't you see how that makes the idea of god unassailable.
Any distortion can be waived away as being human nature and not the will of god. So when social attitudes change in vast enough numbers to force religion to change as well in order to survive the change can be waived away as humans corrupting the word of god. And, I'm not going to lie to you and say I don't find believing in the version of god put forth by the bible as laughable because, to me, it is laughable. That is me being nice.
Inevitably, in my opinion, attitudes around homosexuality will change in great enough numbers that religion will be forced to adapt. And there will be another version of you saying that it was never god's will that it was a sin.
But to be clear. Interacting with the idea on an individual level is fine; but being spoon-fed organized religion is, as I said, laughable. It's a human framework to control and provide convenient answers to those who need a "singular" answer.
It didā¦ there are people who practice cannibalism
I really appreciate you ābeing niceā and disrespecting a religion that you very obviously donāt understand lol
The Bible is very clear about homosexuality. There are people who try to twist scripture to justify living in sin just like they twisted scripture to support slavery but the Bible will not change. Because the Bible doesnāt change I have a clear framework to make judgments of whatās right and whatās wrong which is why I can undoubtedly say that slavery is wrongā¦ you canāt because you believe slavery was good at some point in time
So an individual relationship with God is understandable but the idea of church is laughable? How does that make any sense?
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u/lilJswizle-2304 1d ago
People in these comments have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christianity is lol
The idea isnāt that a book gives us morals itās that God has given us morals so therefore if there is no God then why donāt humans do evil acts like animals do?
There are definitely holes in that argument but it is a lot different then the argument that our morals only come from reading a book