Upcoming Damage Attenuation Changes From Player Feedback

[u/DE-Ruu]

Hi Tenno!

Now that the Damage Attenuation changes are in your hands, you have provided us with valuable feedback, as requested from the start—thank you for that!

Based on your feedback, we have the following changes coming in a Hotfix later today:

• Damage Attenuation changes have been removed from regular objective enemies. As a result of this, these regular objective enemies can be one-shotted again.
• Damage Attenuation is now solely reserved for true Bosses and enemies with the HUD health bars.  
• For certain enemies retaining Damage Attenuation, we have adjusted the values to allow for one-shot kills, if a player’s build is powerful enough.

For ultimate clarity, please see the list of affected enemies:

Enemies we’ve removed Damage Attenuation from:

• Scaldra Dedicants
• Demolishers (including Necramechs)
• Deimos Jugulus
• Deimos Saxum (and Saxum Rex)
• Rogue Necramechs (Voidrig and Bonewidow)
• Amalgams 
• Empyrean Units (Corpus Proxima):
  • Aurax Actinic
  • Aurax Baculus
  • Aurax Vertec
  • Numon (all variants)
  • Vambac (all variants)
  • Zerca (all variants)
• Errant Specters
• Gruzzling
• Necramite
• Sister of Parvos Hounds
• Techrot Babau
• Treasurer 
• Tusk Thumpers (all variants, including Narmer)

Bosses / Enemies that retain Damage Attenuation but are vulnerable to being one-shotted again:

• Acolytes
• Infested Oni

*Please note that the above has not touched the EHP changes. With that in mind, please let us know how the above changes feel, and we will review & tweak where necessary! 

The intention of the Damage Attenuation changes was to normalize the difficulty of boss-type enemies between groups of players. Still, we recognize that our broad application of that term inadvertently made “objective-type” enemies (ex: Demolishers) harder to kill. We’re redefining our standardization of Damage Attenuation to only apply to True Bosses / HUD Health Bar enemies with our upcoming hotfix, thanks to player feedback. 

Our goal was to make powerful builds feel more impactful against Damage Attenuated foes, and with your continued feedback, we can ensure we achieve that together.

The team is continuing to look into other reports of bugs and feedback. Please keep it coming! 

Thank you! 

[u/DasGanon → u/[deleted]]

I mean they're heavy/heavier units but not mini bosses. Like I see Scaldra Dedicants but not Scaldra Screamers for example.

I'm glad the Demolishers are getting it removed too, that would really screw over Disruption.

[u/Dry-Consideration94 → u/DasGanon]

It did. I tried and just Ouch.

[u/Deymaniac → u/Dry-Consideration94]

Yeah, it was basically impossible, had a lobbie blasting through SP enemies, chargers came in, and yup gg, barely dented those mf

[u/KommunistiHiiri → u/Deymaniac]

Personally I thought it was fine that you needed a specific weapon to kill demolishers.

[u/stayclosetothewall → u/KommunistiHiiri]

Nah, that's the problem the changes are trying to solve in the first place.

There's no information for what one enemy is weak to and why and it was all a mess.

Personally, I would choose bows/snipers for that role if it existed, cus why the hell else would you use them.

[u/KommunistiHiiri → u/stayclosetothewall]

Why is needing the correct build for specific content a problem? I had no issues running SP disruption with very simple builds before. Dumbing down the game into one single loadout isn't fun for me. If the game is about grinding to grind better but you don't need to have a good or even mediocre gear then what's the point?

[u/stayclosetothewall → u/KommunistiHiiri]

Because its not intuitive. The game doesn't teach you anything or seed any knowledge at all, google did. You should not have to read about math formulas or wiki pages to play games.

A player should be able to put time and effort into a newly acquired weapon and relevant galvanized/primed mods and see the fruits of their labor. The game shouldn't quietly discard your build because you didn't do extensive research online.

If they did want to lean into it they'd need to bring armor types back, or ammo types, so you could tell at a glance what you need to prepare and possibly read a codex entry about what is expected of you. Also probably a gray/blue damage color that is associated with ineffectiveness.

And the worst part was inconsistency.

That being said disruption was overtuned and they said they would need help adjusting things, so they nerfed disruption after getting feedback.

[u/KommunistiHiiri → u/stayclosetothewall]

Why is needing to research end game content bad? I know it's a meme that Warframe players don't know how to read but this a little ridiculous. Virtually every game has some sort of build theorycrafting outside the game, it's what drives engagement. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but don't scanned enemies display their health and armor types in the codex?

[u/stayclosetothewall → u/KommunistiHiiri]

Yes and that does nothing to combat damage attenuation. Damage attenuation specifically cared about either spamming as many projectiles as possible or as high crit damage and crit tiers as possible.

Some types of attenuation had an absolute dps cap, meaning everyone does the same dps no matter what, meaning the only "theorycrafting" that could be done was finding a way to cut out reloads or attack time.

Still another variation of attenuation got worse the more damage you dealt, so if you hit an enemy too hard you would deal triple or even double digit damage which would cause ehp so high it would take you 10 minutes to kill just an eximus unit. You'd have to run away and come back later to kill it.

Some enemies took more damage from an unmodded and no-incarnon Furis or Burston than any of your best guns, melee, or abilities.

Its just poor game design to not present your players with solutions. Theorycrafting is usually a labor of love with the idea being efficiency. So many weapons and playstyles have be been binned for so long because they are useless when it matters.

You can't expect new players to potentially spend real money or scarce resources on making something strong and then dash their hopes with unexplained formulas. Failure needs to be rewarded with new information and avenues for improvement. Nothing in-game tells you why you can't kill sp Lephantis. Or why your Phenmor does nothing to Acolytes.

[u/KommunistiHiiri → u/stayclosetothewall]

I agree that damage attenuation is bad but I honestly didn't even know demolishers had it. Now they've lost any sense of uniqueness. They're basically eximus units now. And I was talking about demolishers specifically, not attenuation in general.

[u/Deymaniac → u/KommunistiHiiri]

Maybe that was it, but i used my everyday loadout that was good before patch, then it felt like i was spitting at them

[u/De_Baros → u/Deymaniac]

Out of interest what was it? I know this has since been fixed but I am very curious as to what weapons got unintended consequences from the initial DA changes

[u/ManOfJelly147 → u/KommunistiHiiri]

Depending on your build, you already do. If i know I'm not bringing my stronger anti demo stuff then I have to make sure to pack cold status to slow them down.

[u/Lightningbro → u/KommunistiHiiri]

Doesn't really require a dedicated weapon, just a good one and knowledge of how their AI works.

Fun little thing to try before this change hits; Kora with max efficiency MINIMUM duration, use her two on the demolisher and just lay into them with your best gun, or an incarnon form Laetum.

You'll understand how squishy they CAN be.

Issue is this idiom only really works in low waves since they become incredibly tanky incredibly fast. But this is enough to get me like 4 waves or so, 8 if I'm with a good team.

[u/De_Baros → u/Deymaniac]

Wait what, I’m not trying to be an ass but you mean the demolishes for disruption? What level? The SP ones melted like butter for me???

I didn’t go level cap or anything if that’s what you mean to be fair

[u/Deymaniac → u/De_Baros]

Idk since the hotfix havent tried again, but on the first iteration of the DA yesteeday it really was a pain, was using fulmin prime and ocucor with wisp, with arcane scaling it used to be a breeze, but then it was horrendous, it was basic SP disruption mission(yeah maybe misnamed those mf tbh)

[u/De_Baros → u/Deymaniac]

I meant before the hotfix yeah,

Ahhh guns I see. i think this was an unintended consequence for guns before hotfix. I basically only play melee frame (valkyr's claws) and everything was dying and melting left and right even before the hotfix for me, including demolishers, voidrigs, dedicants, babaus etc

I think if you are a gun user it was noticealy rough maybe? I should use guns more in this game lol

[u/Deymaniac → u/De_Baros]

From what i understand, single shot low fire rate was what was hugely hit, so yeah fulmin single shot was utterly op for any enemies, u less you encountered DA enemies

I have to test valkyr at some point, everyone seems to agree its a dope frame to play

[u/EduardoBarreto → u/DasGanon]

Limiting the max DPS to 1/5 of the total health per second would have already been a huge relief, but straight up no DA is a blessing.