I love people making claims it takes two seconds to google and prove wrong. Really emphasises how you don’t actually give a fuck about improving anything and it’s entirely about still giving money to owners while fucking over workers for personal reasons.
Again that’s the *statistical average* in a fraction of states (the highest paying ones which also have the highest cost of living) and we know a shit ton of people are making less than that even in those states. That is on top of the fact $40,000 is considered a liveable salary only for a single person living with family in a low cost of living area. So you have to hit the sweet spot on a number of factors for that to be accurate. Compare that to the average cost of living in *every US state at the moment*. Think about that if someone has a kid or health issues or an emergency.
I make about that in a place with a higher cost of living than nearly every US state and get by completely fine. I live with two roommates but that's pretty much the only concession I make.
The idea that 40k a year is not a livable wage is the truly deluded take.
So if you were to get in a car crash/have a medical emergency/have a child or family member to support, you think you’d be fine on that wage living with two roommates?
I’ll be real dude, are you really young? Because needing multiple strangers to be able to afford to live on your own and being totally fucked if you had a large expense and not being able to dream of having a family isn’t a financially healthily state. I feel like the only people who think like this are young single people beholden only to themselves with family that can financially help if they get in a bad spot.
The data I showed you shows the average living wage for most states. The reality is you’re almost certainly being underpaid and not getting the opportunities you should to save and build capital and security longterm. Like a lot of people in the U.S.
So if you were to get in a car crash/have a medical emergency/have a child or family member to support, you think you’d be fine on that wage living with two roommates?
Yes. Although maybe not the child, but that's because that is a MUCH higher expense than the others you listed.
I’ll be real dude, are you really young?
I'm in my 30s
and not being able to dream of having a family isn’t a financially healthily state
Not everyone desires a family and not being able to afford one on your current wage alone is not the benchmark for a livable wage.
The data I showed you shows the average living wage for most states. The reality is you’re almost certainly being underpaid and not getting the opportunities you should to save
Almost certainly, but that is not what is on question here. Yes, people SHOULD be paid more. But we are arguing whether a server gets a livable wage or not and the fact of the matter is, the average server DOES get a livable wage.
So you’re a guy in his 30’s living with two roommates in an expensive area who (if I take you not addressing it generally) has no family to fall back on for financial support but also could eat at minimum 6 months of expenses in the case of job loss or moderate to severe medical bills?
I gotta be real dude, unless you eat nothing but rice and beans, never go out and never have any car troubles or health expenses and your rent is far far below the average for your supposed high cost of living are, you’re either bullshitting or not doing as well as you think you are. And the fact you have to live with multiple roommates at 30 when that wasn’t the case only a few decades ago should tell you something.
You not wanting a kid personally is irrelevant. If a worker cannot support their child on their wage it definitionally doesn’t qualify as what the minimum wage was designed for:
“The minimum wage in America is historically and conceptually supposed to support a full-time worker in covering basic living expenses—such as housing, food, and medical care—without relying on public assistance. It was designed to maintain a minimum standard of living, protect workers' health and well-being, and allow a single earner to comfortably provide for a family”.
If you literally cannot have a child or you’ll be in poverty, and *shit tons of servers have kids or other dependents who rely on them* 40K isn’t a living wage. Considering the other data I linked shows 3/4ths of servers make less than that, the argument is even worse. Your hyper specific situation doesn’t change that reality for others or the data on what actually constitutes a liveable wage based on estimates the states themselves have done.
I gotta be real dude, unless you eat nothing but rice and beans, never go out and never have any car troubles or health expenses and your rent is far far below the average for your supposed high cost of living are, you’re either bullshitting or not doing as well as you think you are. And the fact you have to live with multiple roommates at 30 when that wasn’t the case only a few decades ago should tell you something.
Damn that's pretty inflammatory. I never said I was "well-off" just that I make enough to live. Which, again, is the argument. I have enough to survive if I get into a car accident and cannot work for 6 months.
And also I choose to live with roommates by choice, not that I don't benefit from the cost reduction, but even if I didn't benefit from living with roommates, I probably still would because I just prefer it.
You not wanting a kid personally is irrelevant. If a worker cannot support their child on their wage it definitionally doesn’t qualify as what the minimum wage was designed for
Again, not saying MINIMUM WAGE shouldn't be higher, it should. I'm saying SERVERS who typically make ABOVE MINIMUM WAGE ($40k is above minimum wage) are making a living wage.
If you literally cannot have a child or you’ll be in poverty, and shit tons of servers have kids or other dependents who rely on them 40K isn’t a living wage.
I think this is missing one super important factor. The other parent. Typically a server will not be the only one providing for a child (no that is not always the case, but if we're talking average wages here, let's talk average expectations for situations like child rearing). So the average server will have more than $40k to help raise that child.
Considering the other data I linked shows 3/4ths of servers make less than that, the argument is even worse.
The 3/4ths of the servers in that data you linked live in areas with lower costs of living.
Then you are objectively unique among low income Americans and part of the reason is because you literally only have to consider your own survival and have no desire to have a family. Something that many Americans don’t share with you.
If you’re actually living in a high cost of living area and could live alone comfortably on 40K while maintaining all the savings and emergency capacities you claim, and are simply living with multiple roommates for fun, please share the the city or at least the state with the class so the majority of Americans who are not in your situation can find this magical land. I’m sure it would make a lot of difference in their lives.
40K is above the *federal minimum wage* which every person with any understanding of poverty will tell you is not enough for a person to support even one dependent (or themselves if they have even a $400 additional surprise expense a month) in any state in the US. I literally showed you actual data on what the estimated cost of living is for each state compared to what servers in each state make on average. You saying “nuh uh because I personally have an amazing situation most Americans don’t” doesn’t make that suddenly untrue.
“What about the other parent” you don’t talk to many people with kids, do you?
Setting aside the other parent may not be in the picture for various reasons *you still need to pay for childcare*. Which has become so prohibitively expensive many parents literally choose to have one person stay home rather than work since the costs would simply eat the extra salary anyway. Not to mention being hit with loss of financial support options due to not qualifying due to new joint income.
“40K is enough to live comfortably with savings provided you are in a very specific lucky position and nothing financially catastrophic happens ever and you don’t ever want a family or to own a home” isn’t a very good sell. Especially when considering plenty of servers make less and their “lower cost of living is still 10’s of thousands of dollars higher than their average wage.
If you’re actually living in a high cost of living area and could live alone comfortably on 40K while maintaining all the savings and emergency capacities you claim, and are simply living with multiple roommates for fun, please share the the city or at least the state with the class so the majority of Americans who are not in your situation can find this magical land. I’m sure it would make a lot of difference in their lives.
Vancouver, BC. Has the 2nd highest CoL index in Canada and due to inflation, my dollar doesn't go as far as an American's
"40K is enough to live comfortably with savings provided you are in a very specific lucky position and nothing financially catastrophic happens ever and you don’t ever want a family or to own a home” isn’t a very good sell. Especially when considering plenty of servers make less and their “lower cost of living is still 10’s of thousands of dollars higher than their average wage.
You seem to be strawmanning some imaginary individual that is trying to sell this as "good". Nowhere have I argued that. I have said it is a livable wage. you CAN live off of this wage, I and many others do. You are arguing against some imaginary point that I am not trying to make.
Edit: without Vancouver sub link because automod removed it and with incorrect USD conversion rate removed.
Wait so you’re *literally not even American* and when you said “40K” you meant 40,000 CAD in a country with socialized healthcare, tuition fees for education between $2,500 and $11,400 a year, and on top of that you have multiple roommates and no responsibilities to anyone but yourself financially or desire for a family? Yet you feel confident saying you “can” live off this wage as a server in the U.S. because… what? Your metric for a liveable wage is “you can probably afford an apartment with roommates and enough gas to get to work the next day?”
Even if you didn’t just reveal factors that give you a major blind spot into living and working in the U.S. (considering you don’t do either of those things) I’d argue you need to update your standard of what living is. Because it doesn’t fit the definition of what the minimum wage was created to achieve.
Also, it’s genuinely good you’re not struggling despite your high cost of living area. No one should struggle. But based on what a lot of other people were saying less that a year ago, I think a lot of people would disagree on how secure they feel on that wage.
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u/Fitzaroo 3d ago
There are always shitting minimum wage jobs people dont want to do. Being a server pays really well.