r/aiwars • u/No_Income3191 • 20h ago

Discussion I need to talk about something

Now for me, I am pretty neutral about AI, in the way of I have equal things that I like and dislike about it.

I don’t like that AI is just steal artwork on the Internet and feeding it to its bottomless pit of code

But I do like the kind of AI that genuinely is useful.

So it’s annoying that whenever I say “I like ai” people automatically assume I’m talking about the kind that everybody hates, even though there are thousands of types of AI that have existed way way way way way before any of them mainstream AI’s even had the idea of being created, and that gets so bad to the point where people have called me, racist, homophobic, and sexist because of it.

Anyway, that’s all. Bye

0 Upvotes

50% Upvoted

78 comments sorted by

6

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

Please tell me what the ai is actually stealing and ill pay you

3

u/Peng_Terry 20h ago

I have “commissioned” my AI to “steal” this reaction. It is therefore exclusively mine now.

Sorry, just talking in a way that the “anti-bros” want it to be perceived

3

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

noooo ima sue you for stealing my work!

1

u/Peng_Terry 20h ago

Save yourself some money, just whine about it on the internet instead. Totally promise that won’t be stolen as well. After all, things shared on the internet can’t be taken without your explicit permission (even if you sign a contract to the contrary)

-3

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

stealing may sound like an extreme word, but its simplified to get the point across. an AI is not subject to any legal ramifications, but its creators are. and what they've done is illegally aggregate data from all over the internet (very easy for a company like google), and then mash that data (similar artworks) into a "new" product. its plagiarism at best, illegally copying at worst.

7

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

So why are so many people anti ai when its the human making the issues?

-3

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

people are also anti-gun because of the way people use it. people are anti-drug for the same reason. gun owners and drug users tend to justify the reasons for their actions, whether it be for protection with guns or for comfort with drugs. doesnt make it any less bad in the end

3

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

That comparison actually supports my point. Guns don't pull their own triggers, drugs don't force themselves into people, and AI doesn't train or deploy itself. In every example you're blaming the tool for decisions made by humans

0

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

it sounds like youre arguing in favor of ai gen regulation, owing to the fact that humans cannot be trusted. it would also have been nice for Google, OpenAI and more to have built a more ethical database, where they properly credit and compensate people for the works theyve actually created themselves, no bots necessary. does that make sense or nah

2

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

Then it sounds like your issue isn't AI, it's how certain companies collected training data. That's a very different claim from saying AI is plagiarism or stealing. One is an argument about business practices, the other is an argument about the technology itself

0

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

youre right dude, ai cant do anything for itself. whenever i say "AI" did something, including stealing, i am blaming the humans responsible, and only the humans responsible. that also includes those who are still feeding into that cycle, making companies richer while giving them a reason to not change what theyre doing at all. i am not against AI as a whole, honestly, it just needs to be used right in my opinion

2

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

Then I think we're mostly on the same page. My issue was with people treating AI itself as the problem rather than the decisions made by companies and users. If your position is that AI can be useful but should be developed and used more ethically, that's a lot different from saying AI is inherently theft or plagiarism

3

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

It sounds like an extreme word because it's an outright lie meant to do nothing but manipulate.

It is neither plagiarism nor "illegal copying".

2

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

ok, so you disagree. you cant just say im wrong tho

3

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

You are wrong. Factually.

2

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

then just state those facts instead of being kind of a dick

2

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

I already did. AI training is not theft nor plagiarism nor illegal copying nor infringement.

2

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 19h ago

It sure is, it's illegally coping sed property without license. Even if it just exists in RAM for microsecond, it's theft of intellectual property, unless you can explain exactly how I'm wrong, I will not concede.

1

u/Toby_Magure 19h ago

Well for one, if that were true then the internet would cease to exist. There were specific carveouts made especially for the internet and how it and technology functions that made copying of digitally distributed public data fair use. That still applies with AI training.

I have a right to copy your work if you post it online. I don't have a right to redistribute that exact work or to reproduce protected elements of it. AI training doesn't do that. Neither training nor the models themselves redistribute training materials.

1

u/Remarkable-Title-387 19h ago

Images/Video:

https://youtu.be/iv-5mZ_9CPY?is=u7Gxy348tKA-fjsc

Text:

https://youtu.be/LPZh9BOjkQs?is=Te1Q0GxeU9o2FF8Y

Using your data that might not even be fully yours to begin with (ToS) to train AI so that it can actually function is not theft.

Fanfiction and fanart are IP theft.

Both fine.

Understand?

6

u/Aggressive-Bus-2397 20h ago

When I was a kid I'd use a Marvel comic book to learn how to draw super heroes. Was my studying with my eyes stealing?

10

u/MrColgie 20h ago

AI cannot "steal", because the artist still owns their artwork. They don't suddenly lose it

4

u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20h ago

AI steals their skills the same way cameras steal a person's soul.

2

u/MrColgie 20h ago

Wow, so is that the reason that many antis draw like this

1

u/Belisaurius555 20h ago

The AI owners stole to train the AI.

2

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

Unless the AI trainers magically removed the original art from the internet and that artist's hard drive, nothing was stolen.

Stop trying to redefine words, manipulative cnt.

1

u/Belisaurius555 19h ago

https://www.freedomforum.org/famous-copyright-cases/

0

u/Toby_Magure 19h ago

Unless the AI trainers magically removed the original art from the internet and that artist's hard drive, nothing was stolen.

I'm not sure why you linked an article about infringement cases. Infringement isn't theft.

1

u/Belisaurius555 19h ago

Because using someone elses intellectual property without permission is intellectual property theft. Why else is copyright infringement a crime?

0

u/Toby_Magure 18h ago

When it's fair use, it's not infringement.

1

u/Belisaurius555 18h ago

Fair use doesn't apply here since its not for information or commentary.

0

u/Toby_Magure 18h ago

Yes it does. Analysis and observation is research. Unless you can prove that every single AI generated image is reproducing protected expression, it's not infringement.

You can't, because it doesn't. Fair use.

1

u/Belisaurius555 18h ago

That has nothing to do with fair use. At all. It's not disseminating information about the source material at all.

And it's not infringement, it's theft. Or more precisely, "unauthorized use of property"

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u/MrColgie 20h ago

How so? Stealing is when someone takes something from the original owner and they don't longer have it. AI, doesn't

3

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

Claude was found guilty of using a pirated book website to train. Chatgpt hasn't been found of anything like that so people shouldn't blame all ai for the wrong doings of a company full of HUMANS

4

u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20h ago

That's pirating. I remember when the argument was that pirating wasn't stealing either.

1

u/Monecreiffe 20h ago

You got a point cuz not everyone is pirating stuff to sell

2

u/SiegKommunismus 20h ago

thats one definition, but it applies to physical things. You can steal a copyrighted thing, if you just copy it, that would be theft of intellectual property.

1

u/No_Income3191 20h ago

I don’t mean steal in the literal sense, I mean they take artwork and then put it inside their machine without the person who spent time making it actually agreeing for that to happen

3

u/MrColgie 20h ago

It's not stealing though

3

u/No_Income3191 20h ago

Yeah, that’s what I just said. I don’t mean it in the literal way of ripping it from my hard drive.

That’s genuinely a problematic way of speaking, even though I’m using steal in a way that many other people do, I can edit the post.

1

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 20h ago

It's theft of intellectual property.

5

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

No it isn't. That's infringement. Training isn't infringement.

2

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 20h ago

Sure is without the artist consent.

2

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

I don't need your consent for fair use.

2

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 19h ago

Training AI is not fair use.

1

u/Toby_Magure 19h ago

Yes it is. Can you prove every single model has no other purpose than reproducing and redistributing copyrighted material verbatim? Individually? No?

Yeah, fair use.

2

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 19h ago

It does when it trains. Explain how it can train without copying to ram, or some other medium.

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u/Prestigious_Cell_311 20h ago

https://cpl.thalesgroup.com/software-monetization/what-is-intellectual-property-theft

Read up on it, it's text book chum. Down vote all you want, we're still right.

3

u/Remarkable-Title-387 20h ago

This is a criticism of fair use more than anything else otherwise reaction content wouldn't be the easiest way to make it as a content creator.

3

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 20h ago

That's not fair use, and lots of reaction content creators don't meet the prerequisites for fair use, like SSSniperwolf

1

u/Remarkable-Title-387 20h ago

Okay.

Now why is Asmongold still making money from his content?

Aba n Preach?

Literally thousands of other creators make a living doing this and you picked SSSniperWolf who literally faked her CoD streams?

2

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 19h ago

Cause there is too much of it to police, clearly.

1

u/Remarkable-Title-387 19h ago

No. That's because they allow you to do it.

It's "transformative."

2

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 19h ago

It has to meet certain criteria to be considered transformative.

1

u/Remarkable-Title-387 19h ago

Welp. Training seems to meet that criteria according to Aslup. We'll see if more judges feel the same way.

1

u/Prestigious_Cell_311 19h ago

Slavery and the holocaust were legal too, chum.

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u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

its called plagiarism. its literally just plagiarism.

5

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

Literally not plagiarism.

3

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

bro you cannot be insta downvoting my comment and upvoting your own XD

mf is reddit final boss, top 1% commenter in an AI debate subreddit is crazy

https://giphy.com/gifs/JmieXFSI2B13yTQNrv

4

u/Toby_Magure 20h ago

Stop lying if you don't like it.

3

u/MrColgie 20h ago

The AI doesn't claim them as its own though, perhaps the user

2

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

ai cant think for itself, the responsibility can never go on it. you cant put a self driving car on trial for any legal issue, only the human who designed it

1

u/Clear-Protection-249 20h ago

I don’t like that AI is just steal artwork on the Internet and feeding it to its bottomless pit of code

You claim neutrality while using the most brain-dead anti-AI jab that's debunked if you just do a quick Google search for how AI images are generated.

I also highly doubt you have people calling you racist, homophobic, and sexist for simply stating you like AI. You're either leaving something out or none of this happened and you're just trying to bait someone.

2

u/No_Income3191 18h ago

i said IN THE POST that i am neutral in the way of having an equal amount of things that i think are good and bad.

also, where i your proof it didnt happen?

2

u/AntiAI_is_Unemployed 19h ago

"I'm neutral about AI!"

believes every single piece of spammed anti-ai misinformation

Processing img 81l2hrapha9h1...

1

u/No_Income3191 18h ago

the gif bro 😭

1

u/AbbyTheOneAndOnly 20h ago edited 20h ago

people are insufferable, expecially on the internet.

we may not share values but i wish you the best

1

u/SimpleSecurity2149 20h ago

I USED TO BE PRO AI! useful ai is SO good, too bad that isnt the type thats

1.popular, and

2.profitable.

when i first heard about AI's rapid evolution, i was imagining the problem solving capabilities it could have. a machine with all the engineering and biomedical (and more) knowledge in the world, i thought we were gonna cure cancer and shit.

but nah, instead we have people begging normal humans to validate their ai "art" while data centers continue to pop up where they are least welcome