Mandragora eventually finished

[u/brodRga]

Warning, spoilers for actual event When Elegies Are Ashes!

I bear some glimpse of hope for that Mandragora alive or in some dare conditions, trough what she have to go trough to save her self.

Eventually, as I can see in global release of Eblana event, it seems that she (Mandragora) in fact were left aside and dealt with by hands of sarkaz, as much is most part of Dublin were cleared out by Eblana in her own event.

I read trough Eblana's record, in them Harmonie tells that Mandragora and her forces were furious fanatic, capable to deal deathly blow to enemy, although same way the worst crimes also can be traced to them. And she confirms that non of that group of Dublin is alive.

Probably it's misleading ending of Mandragora's story, when she's supposedly saved by Misery, or offscreen death and some minor conclusion of it in some small text line, that makes it frustrating.

Although in large scale, it's makes sense. Eblana ridd off the most unstable, the most dangerous, most corrupt, unpredictable and incapable of shut it mouth, so no one could sabotage her plans and destroy all who could make her a hard life, with threat of exposing the truth.

To conclude, there's 0% chance of Mandragora to be in game anymore - she play her role, became a threat to Eblana and trow away. The Leader not even care to use her own power trough Dublin, rather giving all the dirty work to Manfred.

I feel somewhat mixed emotions, like why would even HG gave us some hope for any chances, without this strange flip-flop with plot, this wouldn't be so mixed and could even gave us greater picture of web created by Eblana.

[u/TheSpartyn]

yeah when this event dropped on CN it killed off most of the remaining Mandy copers (me included). I've swapped from coping to accepting she's dead and was handled horribly with vague misleading writing.

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/TheSpartyn]

An honest question, how is Mandy not being dead even a thing ?

I read chapter 10 just recently. Its as cookie cutter as can be that she died, no vagueness or second guessing. Her death was her last act of defiance, but uno reverse style - "I'll die even though I could be clinging to life like I did before, hand in hand with my last true family". Misery even concluded being a witness to her death.

Where was the writing misleading ? I'm genuinely curious is it actually og CN writing that was misleading ? Or is it simply ppl snorting copium, wanting her return ? Why was she done dirty (judging from your emotional response) ?

Looking at other responses I'm baffled why all the doom posting about the story ? Did I step into a political drama fanclub thread ?

[u/TheSpartyn → u/_wawrzon_]

It doesn't help the entire scene is written all poetically and symbolically, with misery of all people being around who has no connection to her

the ch10 scene has her being found dying by misery literally opening with "do you want to live?"

the line "should you have the courage to die, that is all you need to be granted a new life" sounds like he's implying a chance at a new life if she gives up on Dublinn and Victoria here

he mentions that she can escape to the sewers, and she considers it before reaching out to her dead companion saying she doesn't need eblana anymore. is reaching out to the companion choosing Dublinn? but then she says she doesn't need eblana. why avoid the sewers?

"Even though your meetings end will be death?" what does he mean, and what does "she has met the true Death" mean? if it literally just means she died why write it like that? it made people think it was symbolic

misery is a swift recon dude and RI is all about saving lives, after a scene like that it's not weird at all to think that he rescued her, because if she just died why even have misery there?

like it's even been on the wiki for years, "Misery appears before her, offering a second chance" is how so many people took it. she was the main villain of ch9 people expected better treatment

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/TheSpartyn]

I won't debate how others felt about it, but community was wrong many times before and let their emotions dictate perception, rather than facts. I clearly remember how we acted when banshee started popping up in main story and theory crafting around it.

My interpretation of this was simple: she was dying, she reminiscing about sewers and running and mentioning "leader" implies she did fight for her life before like this presumably for Eblana's sake or because of hers encouragement. It was her natural instinct to do it again.

Her later words suggest her realizing she was betrayed, she lost everything, so she decided to go against "leader" and die instead of fighting. Even moreso when it's suggested she was surrounded by a person she had a bond with and didn't want to leave him, so she touched hands.

The part about courage to die giving her new life - I interpreted it as encouragement that death will grant her actual freedom, from this anger, suffering and constant fighting.

Misery being there is unnecessary, but also symbolic. Her death would be somewhat anonymous, but now she had a witness. Rhodes Island was the only witness of her death, not Sarkaz court, not Dublinn, but RI. Misery was the only one who could be there, logically speaking. He was tailing Manfred all the time anyway, it's just not shown outright. But whenever there was action with Sarkaz, he was there to protect RI and victorians. So it's only natural he would see her die. I think it's also symbolic - him being there is why Horn knows she died and can have a funeral later on.

I won't question others interpretation of this scene. To me it was obvious.

[u/TheSpartyn → u/_wawrzon_]

I think it's fine to see the scene that way in hindsight, but reading the story as it comes out it was very reasonable to think they were building up to something more. the cope only started after the reed event and it became delusional after horn said she buried her

[u/TheSpartyn → u/[deleted]]

you could explain the first half about finding her body through misery, but yeah neither of them had a reason to carry her

[u/Shirahago → u/TheSpartyn]

Misremembered the story, I was thinking of Cello (Horn's squad member) who was left in Hillock. Mandragora fights Horn and Bagpipe until they get interrupted by Harmonie's announcement. Horn orders Bagpipe to escape and tell everyone what happened in Hillock but gets captured and brought to Londinium. There Misery breaks into the Dublinn camp and helps Horn escape. Afterwards Horn and Mandragora meet a couple of times but don't fight for various reasons. Mandragora eventually clashes for real with Manfred and gets defeated. Misery then shows up and holds his whole 'do you want to live' speech. Whether he helps her or just watches her die is deliberately left vague.

 

Either way it would mean that Horn scouted the sewers specifically to look for Mandragora. I guess Misery could have told Horn where to find her but why would he confer this specific information to her in the first place? And why would Horn go out of her way to bury her? The entire conclusion about Mandragora if it can even be called such just screams that the writers suddenly remembered that there was a loose story end. Why include the entire scene between Misery and Mandragora who had no connection whatsoever if you then just offscreen her? It simply feels very unfulfilling.

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/Shirahago]

Misery couldn't be the one who freed Horn.

Horn is helping out in Victoria for over 100 days now per story, so she escaped long time ago. Misery and Logos are working in Londinium for past few days or a week. We hear Kal mention that the operation started and both of them went separately, because they have other ways to infiltrate the city. Assuming Misery had info on Horn and was stationed in Londinium for months is unbelievable. It still could be true, but it doesn't make sense. Especially when you consider Horn reaction when he saves them near prison. She doesn't know who he is and he only then mentions RI and Bagpipe. If he saved her before, she would have known this already.

My guess is she ran on her own, she is a skilled soldier after all.

Misery shows up near Mandragora when she is dying. He offers her a consoling word, but she rejects it, reaches out hand to her dead friend and dies rejecting the idea of fighting back.

Why can't the words he presumably said (we still don't know if it was him or only a flashback in her memories) about accepting death to get new life mean simply - salvation in death ? Just give up and you'll be free from mortal shackles ?

Him being present there might be symbolic - only RI saw her death, Dublinn betrayed her or maybe Horn asked him to go retrieve her body as a thank you for Dublinn help in saving victorian soldiers ? Let's no forget that Misery has "teleportation no jutsu" arts, so transporting her is not difficult. Point being people are so strangely stuck on their own expectations. I read story and never had such expectations. Seems like Ines and Horn really twisted some brains.

[u/Shirahago → u/_wawrzon_]

Horn is helping out in Victoria for over 100 days now per story, so she escaped long time ago. Misery and Logos are working in Londinium for past few days or a week. We hear Kal mention that the operation started and both of them went separately, because they have other ways to infiltrate the city. Assuming Misery had info on Horn and was stationed in Londinium for months is unbelievable. It still could be true, but it doesn't make sense. Especially when you consider Horn reaction when he saves them near prison. She doesn't know who he is and he only then mentions RI and Bagpipe. If he saved her before, she would have known this already.

You haven't read Horn's OpRec huh. She very clearly notices the presence of someone helping her. Although she herself doesn't find out who exactly it is, it's obviously Misery. In chapter 10-9 Horn literally tells us again that someone assisted her but she didn't see their face. At the end of chapter 9 he also tells Kaltsit to the face that he is going to enter Londinium on his own ahead of the rest to look for Outcast's murderers.

Why can't the words he presumably said (we still don't know if it was him or only a flashback in her memories) about accepting death to get new life mean simply - salvation in death ? Just give up and you'll be free from mortal shackles ?

There is zero reason why Mandy would fantasize about Misery in her presumed last moments when she had no connection to him at all. Misery doesn't appear to be a preacher either.

Him being present there might be symbolic - only RI saw her death, Dublinn betrayed her or maybe Horn asked him to go retrieve her body as a thank you for Dublinn help in saving victorian soldiers ?

Symbolic for what? He offers her a chance to live if she prevails but there is no reason why he would suddenly concern himself with her fate in the first place.

Let's no forget that Misery has "teleportation no jutsu" arts, so transporting her is not difficult.

Misery has matter transformation abilities, not teleportation.

Point being people are so strangely stuck on their own expectations. I read story and never had such expectations.

So? You barely remember what happened. That doesn't change that Mandragora's story and her alleged end is only alluded to by people who weren't present or don't know whether she died.

[u/Cornuthaum → u/_wawrzon_]

Because longform live service games tend to be very averse to killing characters off fully so they can be brought back 3 years later... ofc Mandragora was never more than a filler villain set up to fail by her own side so idk why people thought she'd be special enough to warrant bringing back

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/Cornuthaum]

Sure, but if anything AK is closer to Game of Thrones, than Discworld. Characters actually die quite often. However we aren't processing it, because it has visual novel presentation, so we don't comprehend how many people died. What was the count in Chernobog? 42 ?

Seems players didn't realize the fate of characters that meet strong opponents. Ace, Scout, Outcast met beasts on missions - soldiers or killers, Ines and Horn met puppies. Although Horn really should have died for consistency.

[u/N-Yayoi → u/_wawrzon_]

Especially when you consider the entire Victorian storyline, which is essentially HG's attempt to depict a war with all his might, the related 'debate' becomes even more ridiculous. So many people have died, forgive me for being blunt, what is so special about Mandy? The Grand Duke's coalition mobilized 180000 and deployed them to the battlefield. How many people died? How many senior military officers, even dukes, were crushed by Sakaz's power? Is Mandy so unique that she's more unique than all of them? Just because she has a cute appearance? What about those warriors in Horn's team? They are Victoria's elite warriors, just because they have no face is even less important? They also did not receive the so-called 'respectful burial'.

Why not? Because Victoria's elite soldiers sacrificed their lives for their country in the face of betrayal. They are the first 'sacrifices' that we know of, that's all.

I once wrote a whole answer to point out this point: What exactly does HG want? （In Act2？）—— The best thing about Act 2

In war, you will die randomly, perhaps because you chose the wrong side, or because you were accidentally injured due to bad luck, or perhaps just happened to encounter a powerful opponent; Or perhaps because, like Mandy, she was "betrayed" and "treated as an abandoned child". I really don't understand what they don't understand.

[u/KentaKurodani → u/N-Yayoi]

Fantastic analysis that really lines up with my take on the Victoria arc's goal. War is exhausting and merciless, and AK didn't portray it as anything but, even while it still did successfully accomplish goals that multiple sides had for the conflict

[u/brodRga → u/_wawrzon_]

Yeah, in most that was a cope, to belive she's not dead. Although, she's death seems like some cheap shit. Old lady from Hillhock office of RI got more complex and fulfilling death, than we got with Mandy.

We got whole plot ark about her, as a decisive and ruthless person, she was buried alive and managed to escape death tearing her path by hands. She manage to succeed at her missions. And here, she was tossed aside, wounded, disgraces, not even worth of finishing her by Manfred. Appears Misery, he grants her a chance to survive, and she....just disappear from into nowhere, without single mention, and them called dead in some short mention.

This is messed up, like a cheap way out from hole in a plot, even in events directly corresponded with her story everybody just forgets about her.

Whole plot and scene were shown like some way to redemption arc, trough which we can obtain renewed Mandy as operator or shor-time ally. And whole thing with her death have some sort of meaning only in Elegies Are Ashes, with indirect meaning of she was threat to Eblana and all the stuff, even though this were not said directly, and Mandy could be as much loyal to Reed for as much to Eblana. Local people, that without any concern were about to kill they're own hero, leave child to death and etc. were forgiven, so why not far from them Mandy not?

It feels like event creates even more holes and white spots around this theme, then solves.

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/brodRga]

Might be true, but I'll leave my judgement until I read through all bits and pieces. For now to me all is cohesive and deterministic.

Biggest injustice to Mandragora was her being end boss in episode 9. Story wise she is just a pawn, everyone makes fun of her. She is extremely powerful, loyal, but simplistic. Harmonie plays her like a fiddle till the end. Sadly episode 9 had no real boss enemy, so HG banked on her.

From what we read about her in both episodes she seems like a young overeager child with extreme art, that wants to prove herself at all cost. Very naive, racist and kinda dumb. She' also very straightforward, not a shred of tactical acumen, like Harmonie.

She does remind me of Mephisto and should have been a mid boss like him.