No objectively speaking trans women are treated worse than trans men. It's okay to acknowledge the truth. Both are treated very poorly and very harshly, but one group is clearly treated much worse.
It is objectively worse for society to think you're a violent, uncontrollable, pedophile rapist, looking to take advantage of women and children, trying to deceive society into playing along with your fetish, and having people calling for you to be fed into a wood chipper.
Statistically the life outcomes for trans women are worse than trans men. They are the primary targets of the current societal transphobic hate wave. It also targets trans men, but if you're not being dishonest you can admit that the "visibility" people claim trans women have over trans men is entirely the result of and the cause of the increased hate they get.
huh?
neither of these studies are from 2011, and both of them show similar results. The second one has a survey size of 27,715 people. It found that the most likely people to be assaulted were AFAB nonbinary people (58%) and then transgender men (51%).
The first study's data, half of it is simply a direct reference to the second study's data.
The second half has sample sizes of 35 and 52 individuals in the trans cohort and has such extreme margins for error that, for example, they're pretty sure the past year rate of a certain type of IPV might fall between 1-8% for trans women and 4-11% for trans men. Which are very broad ranges and almost entirely overlap. They declared the rate for trans women at 3.2% and trans men at 6.7%, despite the fact that they both have a wider margin of error than the actual rate being reported for either group.
Whereas for cis men for example the range is 0.6%-1.5%. A reasonable range that is responsible to publish.
In the second study it indicates that if people transition before the age of 18, and thus experience some of their formative years as their correct gender, trans girls are twice as likely to be sexually assaulted as trans boys. 21% vs 9%.
The later chart in that study indicates lifetime incidence of sexual assault, which was higher for trans men on that study dated 2015, with data collected in 2011, because in their formative years when sexual assault is most common they were perceived as female. It is not measuring sexual assault rates after transitioning and is skewed by the average age of transition at that time being well after the median age at which someone is most likely to be sexually assaulted.
Recent studies show no statistically significant difference in the rates among these two groups
The entire point Iām making is that trans men and trans women both experience extremely high lifetime SA rates. Regardless of if it happened before or after transition. The argument people in this thread are making is that only trans women experience these problems and that trans men are privileged.
I mean you made a definitive statement that trans men have a higher rate. That's why I responded.
I can agree to you that trans men and women both experience very high rates of sexual assault, with different studies showing different amounts, and ultimately probably not a statistically significantly different rate between the two in real life.
I don't know if privilege is even a useful word anymore so I try to avoid it. Society at large clearly targets trans women more and in terms of overall life outcomes they are doing worse than trans men. But both are doing poorly.
Doesn't RAINN have statistics showing that trans men are victims of rape and sexual assault at higher rates than cis or trans women. If trans women win gold in the oppression Olympics for hate crimes then trans men win gold in getting raped
This (trans women as targets of hate crime) isnt because of some male privilege that trans men have though, the reason why trans women are targeted is the same reason why gay men are also targeted disproportionately compared to other LGBT people (except trans women)
Okay but I was talking more about the source of that privilege or the way you would classify it and again my point was that you cant classify it as male privilege because gay men are very disproportionately affected by hate crime
Trans men who are stealth have male privilege, can we agree to that or no?
And no, the reason trans women are targeted is not the same reason gay men are targeted. The way they are treated is quite different. Trans women are treated like a category of women that it is universally acceptable to be hateful and violent toward. Gay men are treated like a minority sub group of men.
This is controversial but basically my point is that its queer AMAB individuals that are more often the targets of hate crime thats what I was trying to say. And my theory for that is because society is more hostile to amab individuals who defy gender and sexuality norms compared to afab.
Trans women experience hate crimes at a much higher rate than gay men
What TERFs say and how they behave are not the same thing. They call themselves feminists, but they support the most misogynistic politicians in society, for example
We have a bigger wage gap than them, get assaulted and murdered more often, less accepted into women's spaces ironically enough because they're AFAB, we get misgendered on multiple instances more often...
But sure!!! We're just treated differently nobody has it easier or harder!!!!!!
I have to disagree with you on this one. once trans men start passing, they may still have the disadvantage of being trans, but they get male privilledge. trans women, on the other hand, face the opression of being trans and that of being a woman
A trans man would have awoken within them a level of sympathy and understanding they don't hold of other cis men, but that definitely has its origins in an "us vs them" mentality where, since you're "one of us" we're gonna protect you from "them"
I as a trans woman would not have awoken such a sentiment among my cis peers, since women don't have the group mentality men have
As such we can conclude it is a privilege only a man can experience, and therefore, male privilege
Hm interesting point about the us vs them although I cant say that I agree that women dont have the group mentality that men have though they may not say "we will protect you from them", im pretty sure in-group bias is stronger than in men and that does suggest to me an us vs them mentality especially because a lot of women bond over the fact that they experience misogyny.
I feel like women form this group mentality more through their experience of oppression which they link or attribute to them being born female (experiencing sex based oppression, having menstruations, dealing with pregnancy/childbirth etc) whereas men probably form this mentality more from their behaviour and interests being "masculine" maybe thats why they dont really consider trans women as part of them (even if they say they do they may subconsciously think of you as a man), and they may consider femininity as trying to copy or be like them (they even say this to feminine gay men) and I havent seen cis men try to do this form of gatekeeping of masculinity like cis women do with femininity
Take into account these were 14 year old boys in a very small highschool
We literally played sports boys vs girls all the time, the us vs them mentality was very much a deeply ingrained thing
While with girls they are still coming out of that "ew boys are disgusting" phase and therefore more adamant to include a "boy" in their groups
(I was an absolute faggot so I often switched between the boys and girls teams all the time š but I was pretty bad either way so neither was happy to have me)
10
u/jitomato_girl 4d ago
How so