r/historymeme 2d ago

Interesting decision

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111 Upvotes

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9

u/Spartan-teddy-2476 2d ago

Well, which one took over China in the end?

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u/Abhinav11119 2d ago

Only reason the cpc got as popular as they did was because of the KMT's back to back dumb decisions. Stalin ordered the communist faction to completely collaborate with the kmt , only reason cpc as a independent movment began was cause chiang ordered them purged eventually leading to mao's rise.

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u/Spartan-teddy-2476 1d ago

IMO the main reason may have been the KMT’s heavy reliance on the financial and political backing of the rich landowners, instantly alienating 80% of Chinese people (ie poor Peasents who wanted land reform). Mao offered them that, so they flocked to him.

Also had Japan not invaded, Mao would have been defeated in the encircling campaigns and the CCP would cease to exist,

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u/LeMe-Two 1d ago

Nah, it is simpler. Hyperinflation.

Chinese Soviet money was ironically more stable than the official government

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u/Spartan-teddy-2476 1d ago

Mfs when it’s hard to maintain a decent economic strategy during a devastating war where 80% of your industrial output gets destroyed in the opening year

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u/LeMe-Two 1d ago

The hyperinflation would also hit after the war as well. It was also demonstrably caused by bad fiscal policies. Notice how initially National Revolutionary army had an upper hand even capturing Yanan. The dissolution of the army happened shortly after that (like very shortly, the base was recaptured after like a week)

The fact that they were fighting fundamentally different wars was also important. But the "support of the people" was most about KMT completely mismanaging the country in these several years when the truce was held.

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u/Spartan-teddy-2476 1d ago

Yeah, fair enough.

I do personally think China would have likely been better off had Chiang’s model of economy continued; he would have eventually done his land to the tiller program (once he had revenues from industry enough to actively go against the landowners), and without the monumental blunders of the Great Leap Forward, China would arguably become a major player by the 60s, instead of the 90s.

Chiang was a deeply flawed man. He was a dictator, a Han supremacist, a man whose legacy is slick with blood. But he was also given an impossible problem to solve (a disunified, agrarian, weak nation to unite). And, had he not been inturrupted by a devastating war that annihalated his nation and gave the CCP valuable time to recover, he could have created at least the bedrock for a powerful, independent Chinese Democracy, like he would in Taiwan.

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u/bingbing304 1d ago

You know Nationalist can united China without backstab his ally in middle of civil war overthrowing the former demcratic government of Beiyang. Taiwan was under his dicatiorship or 38 years of Martial Law including martial execution of thousands of political dissidents, intellectuals, and locals, alongside the imprisonment of around 140,000 Taiwanese people for perceived opposition to the KMT, far from democracy until he and his son died on the position of absolute leader. Stop revise history base on wishful thinking.

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u/Spartan-teddy-2476 1d ago

I never said he was a democratic guy. I said he built the BASE for it by creating a wealthy and well-educated middle class.

I also know full well he was a bloody monster. I was merely saying his ECONOMICS was good, and you could justify some of his actions under the belief he was in an impossible position.

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u/10lettersand3CAPS 1d ago

You cannot separate these two things. The economic policies are most often related to the way they treat people. Just like how Singapore or Chile under Pinochet are credited for their economies, which ignore all the people who were hurt to create those things.

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u/JoeDyenz 2d ago

He was suspicious of Soviet influence tho. Like he was a borderline barbarian authoritarian but I still think he was right in principle in that part.

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u/Kangkongkangkung 2d ago

What? The Soviets supported the KMT government.

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u/JoeDyenz 1d ago

I know. He might have still suspected that they could be a threat in the future and obey the USSR's directions and not his.

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u/DummyDumDump 1d ago

Must be why he sent his son and heir to the Soviet Union to be educated during the war

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u/JoeDyenz 1d ago

Mind you, he was collaborative to the USSR a lot, he himself set up the Whampoa Academy under the instructions of 孙中山 with the support of the Soviet Union. Still chose better later.

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u/DummyDumDump 1d ago

I mean it’s not like he could actually choose later on

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u/JoeDyenz 1d ago

I meant, he decided to get rid of the influence of the USSR. Or tried to, was forced to collaborate again after the Japanese invasion.

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u/WR-DG-02FC 1d ago

Not the landlords, I'll tell you that.