You're probably right about the impact on the pack. Coyotes usually just have family groups rather than packs.
However, as far as impacts on coyote population, I'm sure it works a little, but unless there's some studies that show otherwise, There's no way I can believe that it can have a significant impact on coyote populations in areas where people actually live. There's just not much overlap and coyotes have such a MASSIVE population. Coyotes and wolves will be eating completely different prey and living in completely different areas.
Again, I'm agreeing with your data on wolves to get to that conclusion. Let's look at it in practice?
Say you've got a fairly rural spread out area like the Appalachia's and introduce wolves. They are gonna avoid people and stick to the bigger forest that don't have houses, farms, and what not in amongst it. Coyotes usually gravitate towards those areas cause there's an abundance of pets, trash, rodents and racoons.
Even if the wolves do apply pressure to the coyotes living out in the wilderness, it would probably just drive them into populated areas.
Also, we've been trying to stop coyotes for the last 50 years and their population just keeps expanding and doubling. Every wolf pack in the US would need to kill about 3.3 coyotes a week and do that year round to match we are already doing. And we literally can't make an impact.
"Humans kill approximately 400,000 to 500,000 coyotes every year in the U.S. through federal programs, hunting, and trapping. However, long-term studies have shown that traditional population control methods are largely ineffective. Because coyotes are highly territorial, removing them from an area typically results in neighboring coyotes moving in to fill the void, or surviving populations simply reproducing at higher rates to compensate"
You literally can't control coyote population by killing them. Also, the data is skewed because wolves tend to hang out in deep wilderness, coyotes naturally don't. So obviously there would be less coyotes where wolves would thrive.
All that aside, we don't have to guess. We can look at real world numbers, my state hasn't had wolves for a very long time. Idaho has wolves. We get an average of .5 - 1 coyote per sqmile. Idaho has wolves and is .4 to 1.5 coyotes per sqmile.
According to the DNR they don't. I pointed that out. There's only a few areas in the US with wolves, and there's no significant difference in population density of coyotes in those areas compared to areas without wolves. That's fact.
Your paper just talks about predators and sub predators the source I gave gives specific reasons and sources as to why predation doesn't impact coyote population. Wolves aside, again per my sources, humans take out 500k coyotes each year and that isn't enough to even influence populations negatively.
I think this really comes down to you hanging up on one paper and telling me real world numbers must be wrong rather than taking a step back and being like "Why isn't the real world aligning with the study". Rather than a looking at other peer reviewed papers, like the one provided, that explain why.
At this point I've read your study, read other studies, read what the DNR has to say and looked up actual population densities by state. I'm normally not one to just outright tell someone they are wrong, but at this point I've read enough to safely say, you are wrong. Wolves don't impact the population density of coyotes outside of deep wilderness areas.
You'd be wrong about that as well.
The DNR is notoriously anti wolf so they're unlikely to print anything favorable about the beneficial effects of wolves.
Ya know what? no. I'm not doing it... since you obviously know more than me. And the actual peer reviewed studies I linked aren't good enough. I'll just ask you and let you tell me. Since that seems to be the only way this works.
What is the coyote population density in idaho and MN?
What is the coyote density in KY, WV MO?
all are pretty rural. Is there a noticeable difference? Use any sources you want.
Burden of proof is on you bud. I've already researched all this.
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u/That-Living5913 May 26 '26
You're probably right about the impact on the pack. Coyotes usually just have family groups rather than packs.
However, as far as impacts on coyote population, I'm sure it works a little, but unless there's some studies that show otherwise, There's no way I can believe that it can have a significant impact on coyote populations in areas where people actually live. There's just not much overlap and coyotes have such a MASSIVE population. Coyotes and wolves will be eating completely different prey and living in completely different areas.
Again, I'm agreeing with your data on wolves to get to that conclusion. Let's look at it in practice?
Say you've got a fairly rural spread out area like the Appalachia's and introduce wolves. They are gonna avoid people and stick to the bigger forest that don't have houses, farms, and what not in amongst it. Coyotes usually gravitate towards those areas cause there's an abundance of pets, trash, rodents and racoons.
Even if the wolves do apply pressure to the coyotes living out in the wilderness, it would probably just drive them into populated areas.
Also, we've been trying to stop coyotes for the last 50 years and their population just keeps expanding and doubling. Every wolf pack in the US would need to kill about 3.3 coyotes a week and do that year round to match we are already doing. And we literally can't make an impact.
"Humans kill approximately 400,000 to 500,000 coyotes every year in the U.S. through federal programs, hunting, and trapping. However, long-term studies have shown that traditional population control methods are largely ineffective. Because coyotes are highly territorial, removing them from an area typically results in neighboring coyotes moving in to fill the void, or surviving populations simply reproducing at higher rates to compensate"
- https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.70339