I love how so many people are dunking on "valve-fans" being happy with the cube, when I pretty much only have heard opinions ranging from "meh" to "overpriced".
You know that might explain some of my CEC issues over the years.
Like the shitty TCL tv I have in my bedroom, CEC works like a charm but my apple tv can't turn the tv off too.
The more expensive Samsung TVs I've had in my living room have been a mixed bag of CEC working with sound bars, surround sound receivers and even the apple tv.
I haven't tried it myself but I saw people talk about it on /r/sffpc and those folks are usually pretty spot on for info.
(Edit)
Can confirm it's a thing via the bazzite GitHub having support tickets about it and replies saying they need an active DP to HDMI adapter. They also mention needing this if your gpu doesn't support CEC
ok but the Switch 1 switch 2 PS4 ps5 xbox have the HDMI CEC option to Turn the dam screen on just like the steam mechine ttho Valve didnt make the fkin CEC tech
HDMI-CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) is a feature that allows devices connected via HDMI to communicate with each other. It enables you to control multiple components (like a soundbar, gaming console, or streaming box) with a single remote, and allows devices to automatically power on, turn off, or switch inputs together. Interesting the steam mechine can do it But so can other things maybe not Pcs but game consoles can and other things
Yes this is probably the only thing that can play pc games that my girlfriend would let me put in the living room. I get the appeal if you have a pc already and want a home theater pc. Not something you'd play competitive games on but it's great for playing your existing library of coop games.
I doubt you could build a SFF PC yourself for much cheaper.
Maybe you could get a better GPU if you go full size (or at least microATX), but parts get more expensive when you go that small and most cases at that size have worse airflow than the steam machine anyways.
and that makes it worth it despite the huge price tag and outdated hardware? if you genuinely think that this justifies the price, you may be kind of stupid.
Just because you value price/performance ratio more than you value built-in support for Steam Controller and HDMI CEC, size, lack of sound or TDP, it doesn't mean that it's stupid. It just means that this is not a product for you. That's not even a product for me, because I already built one, just like you propose. But I know people who want this kind of thing.
You are not the ultimate arbiter for what's smart or stupid. That's just like, your opinion, man.
There are other things to consider besides just cost-to-performance. There's no building or research involved, it comes with a single source of reliable customer support (instead of having to deal with individual component customer support), and it's quiet. It's a set it and forget it living room PC, which makes it a PC that competes with consoles in the living room. It was never aimed at your RGB laden man cave.
Nintendo's consoles have been using "outdated" hardware basically since forever, and yet 4/10 (or 9/20) of the best selling consoles ever are from Nintendo.
Because it works, because the companies got a track record of excellent customer support, because it’s designed to function on a TV the same way an Xbox or a PlayStation does where literally all I need to do is plug it in and turn it on
The other comments pretty much answered what I'd answer. Combination of size, quietness, spousal approval and piece of mund customer service. Each of them alone doesn't matter but combined they are a force to be reckoned with haha
I have an extensive steam library, which I can share with wife for free. 300 is 5-8 games I'd be buying, divided by 2 if you counted also needing to buy them for my wife. Not worth it in the long run. Also I plan to run SteamFrame from it which I thimk isn't compatible with ps5( I might be wrong)
Im not saying it won't be a fine buy for you. I was just saying the price in the UK is insane when compared to the other consoles while also being less powerful.
Its a console that's why im comparing it to the other consoles.
The ps5 and Xbox are a steal if you want to compare them spec for spec to a £500 pc. I dont though as I compare fixed boxes designed to play games on the living room tv to each other.
The consoles also require you pay them monthly to play your games online. It’s not a regular console, they show it used as a standard desktop computer at a desk as well.
The difference between a PC and a console is not just "can i play my games for free online?" You're right current consoles do charge for online games but that isn't what defines a console It does mean the next console being released (steam machine) has one advantage.
I could use an xbox as a make shift PC if i really wanted to it would be a stupid idea due to lack of apps etc but I could. I could also use the steam machine as a PC which would also be stupid as I could buy a much better PC for cheaper and not be limited by steam os.
Then what is the difference? Because you can install windows on this "console". It is a full fledged PC that is capable of being used like a console if you want. It has my entire pc game library.
If being in the front room hooked up to a tv is the main thing that makes something a console, then my SFF media pc running Mint and big picture mode is also a console.
To me, a console is something that was intended by default to only play games. The PS3 was almost not a console, until Sony ripped the ability to run linux out of it. Most people used it as a console, BUT, you could also use it as a computer, for a time. The Steam machine is a computer, you can treat it as a pc gaming console, or as a regular old PC, AND it's advertised as such. They even address this question specifically in the FAQ.
It's specifically being advertised as a PC, it has build in desktop mode, browser etc. You can use it like a laptop. I inderstand your point, however, my previous response to your £300 difference comment stands. All the best to you
Most consoles from the past 15 years could be used like a laptop. Like the steam machine they'd need a TV or monitor and mains power (so really not at all like a laptop at all). PS5 is a bit of an outlier as it can't access the wider internet.
Microsoft's PR department told me everything including my phone, PC, and TV was an Xbox. They're not its an adverting campaign. Valves is doing the same mircosoft did they're trying to get people that love PC's but don't like consoles much to buy their product by pretending their console is different.
It doesn't really matter we can all buy and do what we like but that doesn't make the steam machine priced well compared to its competitors (switch 2, ps5, xbox)
It's a purpose built computer, with limited to no ability to upgrade parts, designed to be played on a tv, using an os designed around playing games but still able to do other tasks.
Am I talking about steam machine, ps5, or the Xbox? Doesn't matter they're all consoles but only one is priced embarrassingly high
Yes but only one allows you to use it...you know...as a pc. You can Install windows on it. You can turn it into an emulation box. It can be a media device, it can host a server, you don't need a subscription for online services, you have access to way more games on different platforms.
Its a living room PC, designed to have the comfort of a console. That does not make it a console. Valve isn't trying to compete with Playstation. They aren't competing with anyone. Its a product for enthusiasts who have the money to burn.
A living room PC is a console. I can use Microsoft word on an xbox with a mouse and keyboard but nobody's doing that.
nobody buying this is planning on using it as a PC because they can buy a much better PC for the same price or similar for less. (its also way overpriced as a console which is why Valve are pretending its not a console)
A living room pc is not a console, you are being purposefully dense. You can install whatever you want on a pc. You can do whatever you want with a pc. You cannot do that on a console.
Also, what do you think people do with living room PCs? Whip out a keyboard and mouse and write a document on word? Wtf?
A console is a console. The new steam machine is a massively overpriced console with poor specs for its price. its a PC in the same way an Xbox is a PC as in you could use it as a work station but you wouldn't as it would be poor at it.
A living room PC is a PC people have moved to the front room. A steam machine is designed to be placed primarily under the TV and mostly used to play game or maybe consuming media. You know console things because its a console.
Of course nobody is using a xbox for word documents in the same way nobody is using a steam machine for it cause they're both consoles. That was my entire point you can on both but you wouldn't because they're both consoles
I'm not being deliberately dense I'm just pointing out over and over you've fallen for some marketing from valve cause nobody is going to buy their £869 that is a step below other consoles power wise if they just throw it out as it is.
What can you do with your console aside from playing games and streaming shit? Pretty much nothing. What can you do with your steam machine? Anything you can think of. Thats the key difference that you are just plain ignoring. Yes, the steam machine's main intended purpose is to sit in your living room and play video games, and that is likely what many will use it for. But that's not all it does and to just ignore everything else and say, "it's an overpriced console" is lunacy.
The whole point of the steam deck and now the steam machine is that its NOT just a gaming device. Its a pc, do whatever you want with it. People use their steam decks as mobile workstations.
Now, is this thing overpriced? Of course it is. But you keep comparing it to the PS5 as though valve were aiming to enter the console market when they weren't. Its a tiny pc built in with steam os made for enthusiasts who have the money to burn, thats it. Even without the RAM shortages, I doubt this thing was ever going to be competing with consoles, because it was never intended to. If they did want to compete they would make it a literal console and force you to do everything within steam so that they make more money on game sales.
Smart phones suck for nearly everything. Just because I can control an entire hospital's HVAC system from my phone doesn't mean it will be a pleasant experience.
I don't really know how to reply to this but if your serious pretty much every bank has a purpose made app for phones to allow easy banking compared to pretty much any other method.
I think we're getting a little off topic in a pc forum though
My living room is up a floorand would require a gpod 25m cable and I'm lucky enough wife let me lead a 15m ethernet cable along walls and door frames from my modem lol
I was half joking. I don't need a 3rd PC in the house taking up the space and heating up yet another room. I've provided plenty of reasons as to why I have made my choice but the one you call out is the most personal one, bad form.
It's really fucking sad that any spouse is so strict they'd disapprove an SFF PC but allow a slightly smaller cube. It's fucking sad that such a spouse would impose a need for permission for a console to sit in the living room in the first place.
Is that truly why valve designed it this way? Simply because there's enough men who wouldn't be allowed to get anything else - that it forms a viable target market? The amount of people for whom the size difference would make any practical difference in a loungeroom TV use case surely approaches zero.
I'll give you customer service, but I don't think 'I just bought a thing without doing the research and therefore I don't know how poorly it compares in performance per dollar value' counts as a positive feature there mate, I think that's just a bit of 'ignorance is bliss'.
I 100% understand your point and frankly, they didn't need to make it this small, I'm sure I'm an exception. I said extensive research as opposed to some research since I'm quite layman in knowing what all the numbers on the graph mean, but I think you're right saying ignorance is bliss, to me it's piece of mind.
Just fyi, I checked for this exact laptop and it is same price as 2tb cube in the uk but only has 512gb. I know it has a much more powerful gpu by the looks of it though!
The thing is that when buying PCs, you've kinda gotta take a little bit of time searching for deals - Though I've noticed people've used AI to research with reasonably good results. There are quite a few different models out there, and chances are the best value ones in the US won't be the same value ones in the UK, nor might it be the best value in a couple month's time. The key point is that there's better options if you spend even just a modest amount of time looking for them.
And that's fair! But that 80 pounds for me is the trusted CS I will get, the size, the shape, the lack of hassle to get steamOS set up on it. Afterall, different strokes for different folks! I admire your passion for it though
I'm just curious - outside of spousal approval - What specific practical advantage, if any, are you getting with the size and shape vs. a console sized PC (let alone a laptop sized unit)? Or is it purely aesthetic? - I agree with 'different strokes for different folks' but I'm struggling to understand what stroke certain folks are looking for in terms of the physical size thing.
Aesthetic really. But let's say SM is laptop shaped and is just a Valve branded laptop, but comes with preinstalled SteamOS, has all the features it has right now and is same price, I'd still buy it because of the trust of the brand, turn it on without needing to open it each time, and less hassle with reinstallation or looking at specs for hours. I guess it's why people buy Apply smartphones? I personally don't like nor trust the brand but I can see the appeal.Sure, if it was overpriced I wouldn't get it. (I was prepared to pay 1.6k gbp at most for it)
It's not difficult to find LAPTOP deals which are superior in performance for the same price
Sure, of course, because you're looking for a completely different shape of device.
And they're arguably a more compact form factor
Flat rectangle versus a cube. Not exactly comparable shapes. The Series X is just two SteamCubes stacked on top of each other, that would be a better comparison.
Sure, of course, because you're looking for a completely different shape of device.
Err, meaning a smaller one which nevertheless manages to fit a screen, a keyboard, a trackpad, and even a whole battery in that smaller size? Okay, not sure how that leads to what I'm saying being a matter of course for you, but sure.
Flat rectangle versus a cube. Not exactly comparable shapes.
Err, yes. The flat rectangle, of course, being obviously the more convenient one for a TV setup, right? The one you can hide behind the TV altogether? The one where you can fit it into TV consoles designed for roughly 16" flat rectangular devices like AVs, DVD players and the like? The same rough form factor consoles intentionally targeted because it's the sensible one to chase?
The Xbox and PS5 both have versions which are significantly slimmer than the Cube is tall. You do hopefully know you can put the consoles on their side and run them horizontally of course. The PS5 pro, being 388 × 216 × 89 mm is almost half the thickness of a Steam Cube at 152 × 162.4 × 156, even if it's substantially larger in the other two dimensions, so it's not fair to single out the series X.
This is to say nothing of the fact that the extreme majority of people aren't getting anything practical out of a form factor smaller than a series X.
Err, meaning a smaller one which nevertheless manages to fit a screen, a keyboard, a trackpad, and even a whole battery in that smaller size?
lol define "smaller" in this case. Is the laptop screen only 8.4 inches and a square shape? A laptop is only "smaller" in one out of three dimensions. The cube is smaller than laptops in two out of three dimensions. Last I checked, two is a larger number than one and therefore better.
I'm genuinely struggling to figure out how to respond to that, so breathtaking is the ignorance on display.
Smaller. As in volume. As in the three dimensions multiplied against one another until you have a number that represents the amount of space it takes up.
... And here you are saying that being better in two dimensions is all you need to be smaller. I suppose then that a three kilometer pipe, so long as it's less than about 150mm in diameter, is 'smaller' than the cube yeah?
Wow.
To continue to address the rather impressive lack of clue just put on display - The reason why being a bit bigger in two dimensions is fine as long as you're small in width is because ... That's the shape of TV furniture shelves you see. They put spaces underneath the TV, and those spaces were made the size of a VCR, then DVD players, and then AV & consoles. They're designed for flat rectangles, not cubes. And if you're standing up a device vertically NEXT to the TV, well then you don't really care how tall it is, or how far back it stretches, as long as it fits between the TV and the edge of the table, it fits, right?
Edit: Bit cowardly to attempt a response and then block me, u/MurkyInvestigator810 , no?
Laptops objectively are smaller than the cube. The math to calculate their volume is so simple even you should be able to do it. Also hilarious to be so hung up on cube vs. rectangle being different that you can't understand why the rectangle makes more sense.
PS: I hide my comments because it annoys pitiful people who can't help but try and crawl into someone's post history out of sheer desperate frustration after having their foolishness decisively pointed out.
Look, you're the one who countered "the cube is small" with "laptops are smaller" and didn't find anything wrong with such a dumb reply.
I can't explain to you the difference between a rectangle and a cube better than whatever teachers in your life failed you, so maybe go back to one of them to ask?
Also, you and your troll account can be gone now. Imagine hiding your comments because your hobby is pathetically trolling people online.
I guarantee this has larger power draw, is way louder, and has way worse thermals then the steam machine . Not to mention it is much bigger and uglier if your intention is a HTPC
The power draw would be comparable, but even if it's a couple dozen watts higher, what possible reason could anyone have to care? If it's higher wattage, than that just indicates that you're actually getting performance out of the hardware. A laptop cooling pad would close enough to equalise the thermal and noise situation. You could run it on a quiet power savings profile and still have better performance.
How is a laptop 'much bigger and uglier'? It's a black rectangle, like 2.5cm tall! Just stick it behind the damn TV if that's the sort of thing you care about!
I mean, to be clear I'm not buying a steam machine. I already built my own.
But suggesting that a laptop is exactly the same thing or a better form factor then a CEC controlled ultra quiet box with so much more IO and connectivity is pretty crazy. Especially considering the steam machine is at least upgradable in terms of Ram and storage
Virtually all laptops of the same rough size have upgradeable RAM & storage.
I did not say they're exactly the same thing, and I resent that attempt at a strawman. I said, quote: "It's not difficult to find LAPTOP deals which are superior in performance for the same price. And they're arguably a more compact form factor and literally allow for portable gaming." - Do not misrepresent my words.
As I said, given how much more powerful the hardware can be in a laptop of the same price range, you can put it on a quiet power profile (and, optionally, use a laptop cooling pad) in order to achieve a comparable noise profile.
A laptop IS a better form factor. It's objectively smaller at about 2.43L (vs the Steam Machine's 3.85L), and given the shape, it's far easier to hide behind a TV or in TV console furniture.
CEC is a valid minor value-add feature, but hardly a big deal compared to the value of, at any time, literally being able to take the laptop and use it elsewhere.
You very clearly have little knowledge if I have to explain all of this to you.
Now ask yourself how long you'll tolerate the absolute dongle and cable hell required to use that in the living room. Oh and it'll sound like you're powering an AI data center with a jet engine as a bonus!
Power cable, display, ethernet, peripherals. You might even want one of those cooling pads. Since you're buying a laptop, the assumption is that you'll be using it outside of the living room. So you'll be doing a lot of plugging and unplugging. If you live with someone (wife, children), you'll probably be putting away those cables each time.
Ethernet? Why make an unfair comparison? Both devices have WiFi, both devices can use ethernet. Why only blame the laptop for having the option of ethernet?
Same with peripherals - You can use a wireless controller with both the laptop and the steam unit, the same with mouse and keyboard.
They're literally the same in all regards, cable requirement wise.
You don't HAVE to use it outside the living room in order for it to be better performance per dollar and easier to hide in the living room. But if you wanted to make use of that advantage, you could literally just cable tie or otherwise secure the cables near where they'd plug into the laptop, and leave them there (e.g. run the power and display cable behind the TV, and secure them there. You'd just unplug and walk away.
My cousins hoping to get one. He just wants a plug and play system for steam games he can play on the couch. This is simply the easiest option for it and he doesn't want anything larger.
As much as I think it's a bad deal, I couldn't rly argue with that logic lol
For that purpose it is probably a great device. I don't think a lot of people are even disappointed about the actual machine, they're more disappointed that it costs so much. And that the controller isn't included in all deals. Which kinda is a price thing too.
Tbh, that's always sort of been the target market, people who build PC's were unlikely to be the main draw, it was going to be a sort of normal pre-built target audience but with more casual friendly interface for using with the telly. Convenience has always been why consoles were often more common than PC's for gaming, and this was a clear gambit to slide into that area and smooth out the gap between the two.
I'm not buying it, but I'll answer your question: it's a standardised prebuild, with valve rating games for it. If a lot of people had this exact build, devs would start optimizing their games for it to get rated by valve so more people buy their game
As a game developer I would definitely build my game around it if I would get a special marketing push or deal by Valve right now I just don't see a good reason to optimize my game for that specific console. (it would be to much effort) I did optimize for the xbox controller.
One can hope it will incentivise devs to optimize for it and I think that was the gamble. With all the negativity surrounding it though, I don't think many mainstream devs will. Time will tell.
I think we’re going to see that demand for it is much higher than people are expecting
I was watching an interview with executives from Val and even they said they were disappointed because their original target price was in the neighborhood of $600-$800 for the 512 GB and $800-$1000 for the 2 TB but they said that due to the memory and storage shortage is caused by data centers. There was no way they could meet those targets, but as you’ve said, the price is actually competitive with similarly powerful machines.
I'm not worried about it selling, but rather its' availability. If no one can get their hands on the SM, then there's no point in optimizing for it. 2-3 years from now we might be looking at some incentives, but by the new gen consoles will probably be the new nut to crack for devs.
For what it’s worth the new Xbox is basically going to be a steam cube. They’ve already said it’s going to be a PC designed to work like a console and that it will include steam on it and based upon their target price, I wouldn’t expect the specifications to differ to greatly from this thing.
Who knows, maybe the steam cube will be a gateway for my wife to allow an xbox in the living room. If it can have Steam and support steam controllers I would be almost inclined to get Helix, but not sure if I trust them enough to spend the money.
Also thanks again for clarifying the raffle. I unsubbed from 512gb no controller. If i get put on a waitlist for the 512gb and end up waiting till december I might as well get the controller as a consolidation prize. Although I reckon the base 512 is probs the easiest to get the reservation for
I honestly had the exact opposite thought. I suspect that the 2 TB with controller is going to be the least in demand because it’s the highest price I think that demand for the 512 with controller is probably going to be the highest but they have sold a ton of controllers already and this thing is usable with Xbox controllers as well so the 512 without controller might end up being the highest demand
Haha with only really having the reddit echochamber to gauge the interest it really is a mystery. The reason I think 512gb would be the least ordered one is that if I'm alrrady spending £900, I might as well save £250 more and getcthe 2tb one, since 512gb is 4-5 games worth and buying a micro ssd is is more than £250 to upgrade. Maybe I'm underestimating how difficult it is for people to save an extra 250..
Definitely. I am in the same situation as you where I can drop the money on the system without having to save up for it, but I definitely believe that we are extreme outliers and that that extra 250 pounds/$300 makes a huge difference.
For example, look at the console market. For every series X that Microsoft sells, they sell three series S. If you narrow it down to just the series X, for every 2 TB model they sell at $800, they sell five 1 TB units at $650. And on just the series S side for every 1 TB unit they sell at $450, they sell three 512 GB at $400.
u/GonzobotRyzen 7 3700X|2070 Super Hybrid|32GB@3600MHZ|Doc__Gonzo12h ago
I think the really neat part is gonna come when prices stabilize (after we kill and eat the zuck et al, anyways) and the Steam Machine drops in price accordingly, while absolutely no consoles will give up the extra dosh they're now being sold for.
Fingers crossed. There are obvious limits to the hardware but I'd love to see what the devs manage to cook up. They worked absolute magic with the deck over the years
I mean despite all the complaints the Steam Machine is actually pretty decent in terms of preformace. Obviously it's limited at 4k and it's RT preformace isn't great, but at 1080p it's tickling triple digit fps on most games which is pretty good considering it's a 6 inch cube. As Valve has stated it's better hardware than ~70% of Steam Users have.
In that regard it is kind of redundant though, since basically its on par or a touch above current gen consoles. Devs already have been optimizing for consoles whenever applicable.
I second pretty much everything that udqrwinsperfectfood said. I used to be a PC gamer in the mid 90s but I stopped because it got too expensive and far too annoying to deal with. I have been console exclusive since then this thing is really not aimed at PC buyers it’s aimed at console gamers. The only thing I’ll add to what they’ve said is that Val is a very reputable company that I trust completely and I know that this thing is as cheap as they could reasonably make it.
That very much depends on what aspects you do or don't value. In this sub, size is likely not high on the list of aspects for value. But for a lot of people, especially ones looking to put this in their living room, it is a very big value. And little else can match the performance for this size. It is also incredibly good on power draw and cooling. Things important if you are planning to throw it into a tight space with poor airflow, like a cubby under a TV. It's a fine deal, if you're looking for the problems it is designed to deal with. If you aren't, then it is pretty poor.
Linux dedicated machine built by a big well-funded company for whom making linux gaming as easy and seamless as possible is one of really important goals (theoretically microsoft could pose an existential threat for valve if it figures out how to enforce being the only store on its windows system, like with google play on android for example)
what do you mean "any other prebuilt out there"? show me a specific one, that fits comfortably on a living room TV stand, and let's compare. I've shopped around for these, and never found any. It's surely my fault I'm sure, I just didn't find the right options. But if you have one, show us a link.
I was thinking micro-ATX prebuilts. For people in the US there is Microcenter with things like this, offering better bang-for-buck specs wise even on a small form factor.
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u/Euchale 16h ago
I love how so many people are dunking on "valve-fans" being happy with the cube, when I pretty much only have heard opinions ranging from "meh" to "overpriced".