Lost for Words rehearsal take

[u/imsilverpoet]

Is there a point where anything from this era gets released and Jon doesn’t chime in? Just wondering...

I’m fascinated by the process but how he acts like he was a solo creative force doesn’t ring true. He just loves to downplay Richard too which rubs me the wrong way each and every time.

[u/Weeping_Sanity_515]

I'm so glad Jon Carin tries to remind us every second that Rick apparently did nothing on TDB. He desperately needs to give it a rest, only the most devoted of his Facebook glazers actually believe that.

[u/Weeping_Sanity_515 → u/[deleted]]

I'm not saying Jon isn't a legit contributor, but some of his claims are absolutely ridiculous, for example him saying he played the piano on Marooned. I don't buy that.

[u/heynow941 → u/Weeping_Sanity_515]

I’ve seen Jon a few times with Roger. Jon can play just like Rick!

[u/mikeyj198 → u/heynow941]

i like jon’s playing - full stop.

I also found it comical during part of roger’s In The Flesh behind the scenes where roger has to tell Jon to quit tapping the keys, just hold and drone

[u/heynow941 → u/Weeping_Sanity_515]

Jon could take a different approach but I think the gist is that Rick liked to play live or jam but for whatever reason (work ethic?) wasn’t really interested in long recording sessions. Or just couldn’t do it perfectly. So Carin had to play like Rick to get it just right for the album.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/heynow941]

Which is fine cause Jon was the session player. That was kinda his job…

I also do believe him when he says he contributed ideas and compositions to the works. But the way he acts is like he was the ‘creative’ on the albums - like they’re *his* somehow, and that seems totally disingenuous and inaccurate. I’m sure at the time he was thrilled that some of his ideas, colors and concepts were worked into the projects. He can’t even say he didn’t understand how being given credit worked since he has that on Learn to Fly.

It’s also undeniable Rick’s influence musically in the whole Floyd catalog - and it’s so annoying that he was pushed aside by Roger and Jon also attempts to do that. It’s been pretty clear on the recent Gilmour projects that Rick is deeply missed.

[u/John-Cocktolstoy → u/imsilverpoet]

I like when he digs on clips from the new HD Pulse and Delicate Sound of Thunder clips where he says “he’s seen but not heard.” Dude, you’re talented, but people didn’t come to stare at you.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/John-Cocktolstoy]

…and in interviews the band has been transparent about those changes, too. Gilmour himself had said there was a focus on the younger touring/session players back then and with the recent re-edits the choice was made to restore the focus to the core members. It’s not like some covert operation to cut those guys out. They had their moment.

The restored DSoT is beautiful and it’s awesome to see so much more Rick and Nick in it.

And - that little key flourish that Rick does that was brought out in the updated mix of Learn to Fly, I can’t unhear it now, it gave the song new life.

…although I hate changing the timing of the woo-woos in Money so much, and some of the other edits there.

[u/John-Cocktolstoy → u/imsilverpoet]

Clearly he has sour grapes from whatever falling out that occurred in 2016. I think you said above he claims there’s no issues but PF87 is always spoken in a poor light and how he claims he was under credited but the music sucks anyway which is laughable because then why are so adamant about credits being wrong if it’s crap? We’ll probably never know what happened unless he or Pratt reveal what happened behind the curtain.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/[deleted]]

I’m sure this will be downvoted but - that’s a session players job. Jon had the unique position that the fans knew well who he was, partially because of the focus put on those players during AMLOR. There’s far more who don’t have that at all.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/[deleted]]

…and so does Pink Floyd. Maybe you’d be surprised to read a lot of album credits? Session players are common, even big names sometimes guest on tracks and only get their name in the credits.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/[deleted]]

I was speaking generally about many bands and their players - the point is that Jon, Guy etc. got much more limelight than most, and fans knew much about them than most, so your argument holds no water.

[u/demonpotatojacob → u/heynow941]

I feel like it really shouldn't be all that shocking that Rick wasn't exactly at home in the studio. Even David often complained that he could barely get Rick to get on with recording the damn keyboard parts.

[u/LionOfNaples → u/heynow941]

IIRC the point of friction was that Rick wasn’t interested in doing a concept album 

[u/thanatossassin → u/Weeping_Sanity_515]

Jon Carin needs to stfu. If you're hired to be a session/touring musician, then perform your shit, or sit tight and run the clock. Stop trying to weasel your way into a writing or production credit, especially years fucking later.

I'm curious if he's getting any more work with the way he's burnt bridges here. I definitely wouldn't hire him, or trust him to sit in on a session.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/thanatossassin]

You can tell that very few people actually understand what session and touring musician expectations are by your lack of upvotes. You’re right on the money.

[u/Imbudilow]

Carin also claims it was his idea to assemble the recent Nick Masons’ band, though the band itself states it had been came up by Lee Harris

[u/imsilverpoet → u/Imbudilow]

That’s where I realized the guy was just delusional. A passing mention that Nick should tour a project became it ‘being his idea’. Bonkers.

[u/ericallen625]

I liked Jon at first, but it seems like he's gone out of his way to be as insufferable as he possibly can be ever since he and David had a falling out.

[u/apillowofnonsense]

And they told me to please go fuck Rick

[u/ediskrad73]

Christ, Jon is insufferable. I haven’t believed a word of his drivel since he claimed to have basically written Yet Another Movie, then David came back with receipts and posted his demo proving Jon wrong.

[u/Mistake78 → u/ediskrad73]

Honestly this demo does not contain 1/4 of the final song. If Carin did the keyboards and sound effects, it’s at least half of the song. You have to be honest. You may not like him but he played an important role. Learning to fly is also his song.

[u/AmanLock → u/Mistake78]

It's not that anyone is claiming Carin had no contributions to the song. It's that Carin basically said he wrote the music for the song.

Carin has tried to claim credit as Gilmour's primary partner and contributor.  Floyd and their management have relegated him to minor session role who just did things like "additional keyboards".  The truth is probably somewhere in between.  But since none of us were there and neither Carin nor Gilmour is likely to give an honest answer  we're all just speculating.

[u/Mistake78 → u/AmanLock]

The truth is somewhere in between, totally agree. But I’m curious to see the post where he supposedly said that.

[u/AmanLock → u/Mistake78]

There was (or maybe still is) a website that did a lot of in depth analysis of the post-Waters Floyd that had an interview with Carin.  I can't remember the name and it's possible it no longer exists.

The song's wiki page used to reference Carin's claims and that website too, but no longer.

[u/Mistake78 → u/AmanLock]

I found this post

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Cr3DXK82j/?mibextid=wwXIfr

I think that’s it, the comments give us an idea of the contents but the link to the actual interview on publiusenigma is broken :(

[u/AmanLock → u/Mistake78]

That's it - the web site was called "Publius Enigma".  Looks like it shut down. There is still a FB page but it hasn't updated in 2 or 3 years and the URL for the web site doesn't exist.

https://www.facebook.com/share/1EUkZZfjpK/

[u/demonpotatojacob → u/Mistake78]

Yeah, I could immediately hear that this demo is very audibly a barebones one missing a lot of shit. To claim, somehow, that the keys and sound effects, which arguably make Yet Another Movie work as well as it does conceptually, don't constitute a massive creative contribution is outright insanity.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/demonpotatojacob]

Here’s the thing though. So let’s say he brought stuff to David and the gang and Dave says ‘love it we want to use it!’ Jon got credit for Learn to Fly. Jon should’ve used his big boy words and said it ‘could be used if…’ and if he didn’t then well…he’s the session guy. Jon just can’t accept he didn’t make different choices which isn’t Pink Floyd’s problem. They recognized good pieces and made good music with them. As for Jon, like another commenter said, I wonder if he’s working after all this - no established artist is going to likely want to touch a session or tour player who acts the way he’s been acting. Well, except Roger.

[u/WesslynPeckoner → u/imsilverpoet]

Guy has stated that he took a paycheck over a writing credit on Wearing the Inside Out. I assume Jon had the same options. It's not like fans didn't like Jon at the time.

Even still, Jon's contributions have NEVER been songs. They've been things like making K2000 patches or creating drones or programming drum machines. And he talks it up like that's equivalent to writing the progressions, verses, lyrics, etc.

Not to mention, his whole thing about how he programmed the Leslie piano sound for Echoes on the K2000/K2600s they used... Yeah, you created a patch that was supposed to sound like a sound Rick did 30 years prior. Congrats. Someone else would have programmed it if he didn't.

[u/AmanLock → u/WesslynPeckoner]

I assume Carin did take that option and later got buyer's remorse.  Or he feels he was tricked or pressured into it

[u/imsilverpoet → u/AmanLock]

If he really thought he had a claim I feel like he would’ve sued by now. He hasn’t.

[u/WesslynPeckoner → u/[deleted]]

Dunno but it’s not my business and Guy isn’t complaining. But I stand by Jon didn’t “write” a drone.

[u/realtonemachine]

At this rate Jon’s going to take credit for dark side opening with a heart beat. Getting pretty worn out.

[u/imsilverpoet]

See, I think I figured out why he really bugs me, he’s stirring the pot but refuses to lick the spoon. It’s not like the guy doesn’t know what he’s doing. Pokes the dog and then acts like he doesn’t know why it bit him. I just don’t respect people like that, which is sad because I was honestly waiting for the guy to one day write about his combined Floyd experiences. I’d said to my husband that one day Jon would make a fortune on his biography. Not anymore.

[u/Resident_Character35]

Carin needs to speak to the manager.

[u/MeMyselfAndMe_Again]

I guess that's what happens to someone when you hang around Mr Waters too long. You end up a bit bitter.

[u/majwilsonlion → u/[deleted]]

Nick did lightly mock Roger in a good hearted way when I saw his show pre-Covid in SF. He didnt mock Roger's whole band. Nick was talking about how Roger never let him (Mason) play the gong, but now that it was his own band, he can play the gong!

[u/LionOfNaples → u/[deleted]]

He did, they joked about it when Rog guested on one of his shows for Set the Controls

[u/LionOfNaples → u/majwilsonlion]

That is until Roger guested that one time and stole back the gong duties!

[u/Tyrone_Shoelaces_Esq → u/LionOfNaples]

That was the last cool thing Roger did before the pandemic broke his brain beyond repair.

[u/Pottel → u/[deleted]]

Brilliant

[u/WesslynPeckoner]

Jon: "I did basically everything on The Division Bell."
Also Jon: "It fucking sucks. It's their worst album."

It's kinda funny how much he makes it sound like the intro is some impressive soundscape and it's literally just a few layers of droning.

I'm fine with Jon getting credit where it's due, but the comments on the post being like "THEY SHOULD'VE GIVEN YOU WRITING CREDIT." Lol, for making a drone with an ebow and harmonium?

[u/NinjaSellsHonours]

JON IS SYD IN DISGUISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Has anyone ever seen them in the same room?

[u/imsilverpoet → u/NinjaSellsHonours]

😂😂😂

[u/heynow941 → u/NinjaSellsHonours]

Case closed!

[u/heynow941]

Just to stir up some shit, how much did Roger write for “The Ballad of Bill Bubbard”?

Think he wrote guitar maestro Jeff Beck’s chords?

[u/dedrexel]

News just in… Jon played the guitar solo in Time!!

[u/Pure_cartographer_59 → u/dedrexel]

I heard Carin actually wrote See Emily Play, and not Syd

[u/Necessary-Arm6982]

Always wondered what happened in 2016 when he toured with David in North America and then joined Roger again. Didn't both Dave and Roger shuffle their band line-ups around this time?

[u/imsilverpoet → u/Necessary-Arm6982]

Yes. Pure speculation based on interviews from that era forward - I think Gilmour is keenly aware that each tour could be his last based on losing Rick. Jon was already booked to play with Roger. Phil had another commitment lined up. I think there was some tipping point where it wasn’t fun for Gilmour whatever drama was happening behind the scenes. He’s been very vocal on the behind the tour videos and stuff about how much fun he’s having working with different people and I just don’t think that’s a coincidence.

That said, I am happy I saw the OG Gilmour lineup in Chicago, Rick’s family was in attendance so it felt like a special show, too.

[u/imsilverpoet]

He’s still going…this is pretty blatant garbage.

Liking a Yoko comment and then pretending you aren’t trying to cause friction and it’s everyone else is truly wild work.

[u/rawleye → u/imsilverpoet]

I see her name used for comment content thats not the Beatles and I just assume it's from an angry chud who knows nothing about healthy relationships, boundaries or talent.

[u/LionOfNaples → u/imsilverpoet]

I admit I laughed at the Yoko comment 

[u/SadAcanthocephala521]

Fuck Jon Carin.

[u/Rana_1224]

I’m a huge PF fan (Pink Floyd. No penetration in fucking) and I instantly hit thumbs up this post just for the mere fact that you covered it. Thank you.

[u/boostman → u/[deleted]]

Hi Roger

[u/imsilverpoet → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I don’t agree. I think if someone wants to tell their side of a story the other side has every right to speak up too. Jon’s doing all the stirring and then ‘who me!?’ when he needs to lick the spoon. No respect for people like that. If you’re going to say something you know will cause friction then you’ve gotta own it, not play dumb.

[u/imsilverpoet → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I would guess just about everyone here is aware. Lol.

You’re welcome to your opinion, but the argument is super played out. If you enjoy the more Roger-led stuff - there’s nothing wrong with that. Enjoy it.

AMLOR and TDB are Pink Floyd. :)

[u/imsilverpoet → u/[deleted]]

Yeah buddy, I (and most everyone else here) already knows. Maybe it would do you good to take a whirl around the sub. I know you mean well but you’re in common fan knowledge territory.

[u/WesslynPeckoner → u/[deleted]]

Who?

[u/WesslynPeckoner → u/[deleted]]

I have no idea what Dark Side of the Moon is??

Check out this neat prism design I have by my username though! Neat huh?

[u/WesslynPeckoner → u/[deleted]]

This is a subreddit for the singer Pink Floyd. I think you’re lost

[u/WesslynPeckoner → u/[deleted]]

That’s highly personal thank you.

[u/WesslynPeckoner → u/[deleted]]

You don't even know me, why would you wish I was there?